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Prime Minister to French Government: Favor FOSS Wherever Possible

concertina226 writes with interesting news from France. From the article: "French government agencies could become more active participants in Free Software projects, under an action plan sent by Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault in a letter to ministers (PDF, and in French of course), while software giants Microsoft and Oracle might lose out as the government pushes Free Software such as LibreOffice or PostgreSQL in some areas. ... He also wants them to reinvest between 5 percent and 10 percent of the money they save through not paying for proprietary software licenses, spending it instead on contributing to the development of the free software. The administration already submits patches and bug fixes for the applications it uses, but Ayrault wants to go beyond that, contributing to or paying for the addition of new functionality to the software."

30 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. Re:FOSS Visual Studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft has refused to implement essential features from C99 that exist in nearly every other C compiler. Don't try to claim that Visual Studio is advanced software.

    Example: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/zb1574zs(v=VS.100).aspx

  2. Re:FOSS Visual Studio by SJHillman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Two things:

    1) "Wherever Possible" means that they know FOSS doesn't have a solution to every little problem. However, if it comes down to word processors, databases, web browsers, etc then there are numerous FOSS alternatives.

    2) Visual Studio is great for MS languages like VB.NET but I find it lacking for C++ or PHP, which I use different IDEs for. It's like saying a full-size pickup truck is the absolute best vehicle out there. Sure, it's great for a lot of tasks but I wouldn't want to use it for long distance commutes, cross-country travel, navigating narrow city streets...

  3. Re:FOSS Visual Studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    QtCreator

  4. oh my some sense... from the french by johnjones · · Score: 4, Funny

    helping the french economy by cutting costs and if they employ some french nationals to actually do the work that might help the french employment...

    whatever next

    regards

    John Jones

  5. Re:One sterp forwards... by aaribaud · · Score: 5, Informative

    Now could you please repeal that 3-strikes law? It makes you a bunch corporate lapdog douche bags.

    Actually, this law, or more precisely the HADOPI which the law has created, has come under criticism from the government for its costly inefficiency: so far, HADOPI managed only to bring a single case to court, and it was an textbook example of a non-voluntarily infringer who was found guilty mostly because he tried to prove his innocence and despite his obvious intent to comply with the law (details upon request) -- and was fined a gigantic EUR 150 (plus court fees I guess).

    Besides, HADOPI did nothing regarding fostering legal music and video offers, which was the second half of its mission.

    Analysts (usual caveats apply) here tend to think HADOPI as it stands will not survive.

    Thanks. Love your fries.

    Want some frogs with that? :)

  6. Re:FOSS Visual Studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Emacs

    Fixed that for you :p

  7. Re:One sterp forwards... by jbrandv · · Score: 4, Funny

    Come on! Everyone knows the first French fries were made in grease... ;-)

  8. This is what I have been saying for years... by SilenceBE · · Score: 5, Informative

    I had numerous arguments with Belgian politicians (yeah I know, why bother sometimes) about the same thing. But here they rather open new Microsoft "innovation" centers (especially here in Flanders) and blow their own horn how "advanced" we are because of their exceptional thinking. It aggravates me sometimes because it isn't true at all and it only gets worse with the rise of Flemish nationalism. The government here clashes sometimes also with FOSS developers, look at the whole itextpdf tax debacle.

    From a society point of view Open Source software within the government (or government services) makes a lot of sense. It gives more (local) companies a change to compete and every euro that goes to improvement of OSS software also benefits companies and the general public as they can freely download the software (with the improvements) for their own use.

    Another thing is also that OSS is also a lot more "leaner" maybe even "greener". In a lot of government agencies I see bulky beefy PC's just to be able to run properiate (mostly Microsoft) stuff. Think about the savings (in hardware and electricity) you can have if you convert those thousands of workplaces to cheaper less demanding systems just because you use an OS that uses less resources or is more efficient. And seeing how efficient Linux sometimes works on ARM hardware, it has a lot of potential. And it not that they do heavy calculations on most of those machines or they have high demands regarding multimedia or games... .

    Personally I rather have my tax money to go the companies that uses or develops OSS solutions, then some big multinational shareholders.

    1. Re:This is what I have been saying for years... by Hatta · · Score: 4, Funny

      From a society point of view Open Source software within the government (or government services) makes a lot of sense.

      Which is why this will never happen in the US.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:This is what I have been saying for years... by gQuigs · · Score: 2

      > Which is why this will never happen in the US.

      SELinux (developed by the NSA)
      GRASS GIS (developed by the US Army Core of Engineers) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRASS_GIS#History
      VistA (Veterans Health Information Systems and Technology Architecture developed by the VA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VistA
      You can even try out the DOD's flavor of Linux - http://www.spi.dod.mil/lipose.htm

      We can of course do even better.. and we should.

  9. Je l'approuve! by PerlPunk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work in a U.S. fed agency, and I use a Linux distro, but most of the rest of my colleagues use Microsoft Windows.

    Some observations about Windows vs. Linux:

    1) You still need to have above average skills to get your work done on Linux, even if you are using a relatively user-friendly distro like Ubuntu. Most people, by definition, are not above average.
    2) Some proprietary software is and always will be much better than anything comparable in the open-source world:
    a) As compared with MS Office (Word, Excel, etc.), OpenOffice is a piece of crap.
    b) Ditto for Subversion. As compared with proprietary source control like Harvest or Merant PVCS, Subversion is also a piece of crap.

    That said, a government putting some of its spending power behind some key open source projects could produce some quality open-source software to shore up some of these shortcomings.

    Also, open source software provides unprecedented opportunity for others to innovate with the software itself in ways you cannot do with proprietary software.

    So, I fully approve of and support France's direction in supporting open source software in their government administration.

    1. Re:Je l'approuve! by aaribaud · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Re: Open Office (actually Libre Office, but let's not be too picky): maybe to its full power it is a piece of crap compared to the full power of MS Office. However, my wife, who cannot be said to be a FOSS zealot in any way, uses Libre Office (and Ubuntu) daily on her home computer and so far has never complained about any shortcomings of LO. And the reason is, she does not use it to its full power, nor does she use MS Office to its full power, and when you compare the suites for daily mundane use, they perform just as well.

      Re: Subversion: ever heard of Git? Again, maybe it doesn't fit everyone's bill. But for my OSS-related hobbies as well as my day job, Git has not exhibited any shortcoming so far -- quite the opposite in fact.

    2. Re:Je l'approuve! by PerlPunk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have heard of Git, and I know people who have recommended it instead of Subversion. I myself also use subversion for my own personal projects, because it's free and for the reason you mention: I don't use its full power on my own stuff. However, there are little conveniences in proprietary software that you appreciate, even when not using its full power.

      For example, when creating a QA test plan, I take screen shots from the application I'm working with and directly paste them into table cells to show exactly what the system response should look like. When I do this in MS Word (2007), it resizes the image to the size of the cell. When I try this with OpenOffice Writer, the screen goes dark, and then it doesn't do paste the image. That might just be my bad luck or I don't have the latest, greatest patch that takes care of the problem. But I appreciate the relative lack of bugs in MS Word as compared with OO Writer.

      Another thing I like about MS Word is the ability to move paragraphs or table cells up and down using shift + arrow keys. Maybe that's a "power user" feature, and I'm sure it could be implemented in OO Writer. But a point about proprietary software is that you have people spending the best part of their waking hours developing and perfecting these products whereas most open source initiatives are volunteer efforts. More time goes to the proprietary projects, so more attention to detail can be given to them.

      Let's just say that both open source and proprietary software occupy their own important niches.

    3. Re:Je l'approuve! by macbeth66 · · Score: 2

      Re: Open Office (actually Libre Office, but let's not be too picky): maybe to its full power it is a piece of crap compared to the full power of MS Office.

      Really? A piece of crap? If I ignore the 'prettiness' of MS Office and concentrate on what 90% of my co-workers need, LO wins hands down.

      With one big, glaring exception; an Outlook-like replacement.

      LO needs something that has a fully integrated email client, a pre-built contact list ( internal listing ) and a scheduler. Yes, I know there are other open source answers to these things, but I am talking abut it being an integrated component of LO.

      Okay, LO's version of PowerPoint needs a little help. Okay. A lot of help.

    4. Re:Je l'approuve! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have heard of Git, and I know people who have recommended it instead of Subversion. I myself also use subversion for my own personal projects, because it's free and for the reason you mention: I don't use its full power on my own stuff. However, there are little conveniences in proprietary software that you appreciate, even when not using its full power.

      Like what in version control systems. You made the claim that closed ones were better (well better than SVN). You keep insinuating as such, but make no real claims.

      Another thing I like about MS Word is the ability to move paragraphs or table cells up and down using shift + arrow keys. Maybe that's a "power user" feature, and I'm sure it could be implemented in OO Writer.

      LMGTFY. Answer: ctrl+shift+up moves paragraphs. And "not sure it could be implemented"? That's a really weird thing to say.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:Je l'approuve! by tibit · · Score: 2

      SVN is a centralized system. Its design philosophy is simply different from what you need for distributed development of any sort. That's all there's to it.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    6. Re:Je l'approuve! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Never thought I'd see a positive comment for Merent PVCS Dimensions, let alone see it compared positively against subversion. We're right now migrating away from PVCS to Subversion in our corporate environment. Most developers plead or even try to bribe us with candy to get their project to the front of the migration queue. PVCS is stable as an upside down piramid, eats source code on a daily base, can't be upgraded even by its own vendor,randomly looses permissions as you grant them to other people, straight DB read access is more user friendly than the gui, any question asked about it on stackoverflow earns you a tumbleweed badge, it goes on and on. I still have to support that evil thing for the next few years, after drawing the corporate short straw. About the only good thing about it: It is very easy to create reports for management, when they want top know the reason why half of development time is spent in the versioning tool.

      The short version: Anyone reading this and choosing version management software: pick Subversion. or pick that ugly microsoft thing. or pick a source folder. or just print your sources and retype them if that's what it takes. But not PVCS.

  10. French economy by Liquid+Len · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At the moment, the French economy is not doing well, to say the least: austerity has become the rule in the EU and so far, no signs of recovery have been observed (I for one don't think austerity is the right answer, but let's stay on-topic). As a FOSS enthusiast (and, incidentally, as a French...), I'm glad to see this kind of effort finally happening. But I also suspect our government sees this as a cheap way to cut licence costs and won't invest sufficiently in the migration. I think it makes sense from a economic standpoint in the middle/long term, but there is a transition period which I'm not sure they'll be willing (or able) to handle with sufficient resources.

  11. Re:A motto for FOSS by Yvan256 · · Score: 2

    Too bad Slashdot is stuck in 1995 and still doesn't support UTF-8.

  12. Re:Only 5-10% reinvestment? by aaribaud · · Score: 2

    re: reinvestment, I have not seen indications or amounts in the letter. However, considering the economy in France, I suspect part of the move is to save money in order for the agencies to compensate whatever budget cut they might be hit with. That some of the saving be reinvested is rather positive in this light.

  13. Even worse for Oracle and Microsoft by MikeRT · · Score: 2

    With some products like PostgreSQL, they can go to the enterprise fork vendor and put in the contract that government-made features will be submitted back. Therefore they can get the best of both worlds. If EnterpriseDB truly screwed them over, hopefully all of their patches would be good enough to make it into PostgreSQL proper. That's a compelling carrot/stick that Microsoft and Oracle don't have.

  14. Overheard by wbr1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ballmer and Ellison exhorting "zut alors!"

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
  15. Re:"in French, of course" comment????? by PerlPunk · · Score: 2

    I think you are reading too much into the original posting. But we can thank Jacques Derrida and poststructuralism (deconstruction) for giving us a rationale to entertain alternative readings like this even if the author did not intend any such thing.

  16. Re:FOSS Visual Studio by LourensV · · Score: 4, Informative

    Two things:

    1) "Wherever Possible" means that they know FOSS doesn't have a solution to every little problem. However, if it comes down to word processors, databases, web browsers, etc then there are numerous FOSS alternatives.

    The Netherlands' government has been operating on a "comply or explain" principle for years. All government agencies are required to use open source software and free standards, or else explain why they don't. All the government agencies I've seen in the past couple of years (municipalities, provinces, and a couple other government and semi-government organisations) use Microsoft software everywhere, with the exception of the databases, for which they use Oracle. Spatial planning is done with the proprietary ESRI stack. The only open source is usually the CMS they use for the web site, either an existing one or a home grown one which they open sourced themselves, and they have an ODF plugin installed in Word so that they can fulfil their legal requirement to be able to communicate using the ODF standard. Of course, everyone uses doc and docx.

    I think the main reason is that they simply don't employ any real IT staff, just a few technicians who know how to swap out a machine and which phone number to call the supplier on when something breaks. It's difficult to find people who, given a bunch of open source software, can actually fix things themselves, and those people are expensive. Getting external support for FOSS is also not easy unless it's for something extremely mainstream. The FOSS GIS stack is getting quite capable for example, but I think there are only a handful of companies world wide who offer support for the thing, and they're all pretty small and on the other side of the world from here. So ESRI and Oracle Spatial it is.

    So, which the initiative is great, and all sovereign governments should be using Free software on general principle, I'm afraid that this is not going to change much in France.

  17. Très Cool! by mattr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is so awesome. Imagine if all governments did this. Since they all use the same applications (like LibreOffice) there will be tons of development $$$ per application!!

    "He also wants them to reinvest between 5 percent and 10 percent of the money they save through not paying for proprietary software licenses, spending it instead on contributing to the development of the free software."

    1. Re:Très Cool! by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 2

      Until 2010, the NHS had an "Enterprise Wide Agreement" or bulk licensing deal with Microsoft, which covered Office.

      A back-of-the-napkin calculation would indicate that the costs of this would run to the order of £100M or thereabouts each year. I think the Document Foundation would wet themselves with glee if you chipped in £5M worth of development effort, each year, to LibreOffice. And I think you'd have a lot of influence over which features got developed.

      You could even lowball it for a few years to pay for the inevitable training and support issues you'd have initially.

  18. Re:FOSS Visual Studio by Schmorgluck · · Score: 2

    Have you ever considered using Eclim? It's Eclipse with Vim as the interface (or Vim with Eclipse tools if you prefer).

    --
    There's nothing like $HOME
  19. Re:One sterp forwards... by Schmorgluck · · Score: 3, Informative

    All fries should be fried twice, at different temperatures. The first time is to caramelize the outside, the second is to cook the inside to the point it becomes a puree. Belgian cooks are just more strict on this than French cooks are.

    As for beef tallow, yeah, it's seemingly a staple of the Belgian method.

    --
    There's nothing like $HOME
  20. Socialists support F/OSS by whitroth · · Score: 2

    In case you'd missed it, socialists now are the government in France. So it's true, socialists support F/OSS.

    We can't have that here in the US! Quick, run out and buy Windows, and install it over all versions of Linux! And Macs, too, since they now use the same hardware!

          mark "more profits for M$!" (Note the separated http and //. w/ no colon).

  21. Nationalize Mandriva by unixisc · · Score: 2

    The most famous French example of FOSS is Mandriva, which has free forks of Mageia and PCLinuxOS, but the French government could nationalize Mandriva, which has been struggling to survive, and then use that as the basis of all its FOSS. They can write/port all software to that platform, and make it as major a deal as Munich and Extremadura - both dealt w/ in /. pages in the past.