Air Force Sets First Post In Ambitious Space Fence Project

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Air Force Sets First Post In Ambitious Space Fence Project

Posted by samzenpus on Wednesday September 26, 2012 @07:09PM from the making-good-neighbors dept.

coondoggie writes "The US Air Force this week said it will base the first Space Fence radar post on Kwajalein Island in the Republic of the Marshall Islands with the site planned to be operational by 2017. The Space Fence is part of the Department of Defense's effort to better track and detect space objects which can consist of thousands of pieces of space debris as well as commercial and military satellite parts."

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Also... by outsider007 · 2012-09-26 19:11 · Score: 5, Funny

It will keep out the Space Mexicans.

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1. Re:Also... by TheInternetGuy · 2012-09-26 19:36 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  It will keep out the Space Mexicans.
  Well it will keep out the masses, but we'll let a few through to clean our pools.
  
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  If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
2. Re:Also... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 20:01 · Score: 0
  
  It will keep out the Space Mexicans.
  *Insert Obligatory Futurama-Reference about those pesky Space-Aliens.*
3. Re:Also... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 20:24 · Score: 0
  
  And it will devide West and East-Space
4. Re:Also... by siddesu · 2012-09-26 20:36 · Score: 2
  
  Aww, come on, we know this is just a lame excuse for HAARP 2.0. The global warming did not warm itself, you know.
5. Re:Also... by Noughmad · 2012-09-26 21:19 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  This was a funny post, but I believe you just wasted the chance of making the first relevant "First Post" in Slashdot history.
  
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6. Re:Also... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 23:10 · Score: 0
  
  And it will keep the space cows in orbit.
7. Re:Also... by Type44Q · 2012-09-27 01:17 · Score: 1
  
  Puh-leeze... how hard could it possibly be for them to tunnel under? We're talking about digging through air, fercrisake...
8. Re:Also... by jacknifetoaswan · 2012-09-27 01:37 · Score: 1
  
  Not air, vacuum.
9. Re:Also... by mcgrew · 2012-09-27 02:04 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  I believe you just wasted the chance of making the first relevant "First Post" in Slashdot history.
  Funny, but false. I've made relevant FPs and had them modded +5 insightful before, and I'm not the only one. And I try to avoid FPs because just being FP can get your comment modded so low that making it was a waste of time, no matter how good a comment it is. If you want to be seen, be the second poster and reply to the "funny" FP with something interesting.
  
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  Free Martian Whores!
10. Re:Also... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:04 · Score: 0
  
  I think he was referring to the play on words of both the first post of the fence and the first comment post of a new article.
11. Re:Also... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 04:11 · Score: 0
  
  WHOOOSH
12. Re:Also... by davester666 · 2012-09-27 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  Vacuum, the medium that is both easier AND harder to dig through than air.
  
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  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
13. Re:Also... by Sussurros · 2012-09-27 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  They'll be able to run up and down behind the fence and bark at the meteors as they go past.
  
  --
  I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
14. Re:Also... by AnRkey · 2012-09-27 22:31 · Score: 0
  
  It will keep out the Space Mexicans.
  rofl, don't let the terries win! :)
Obvious by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 19:13 · Score: 0

Too easy
and if it finds anything suspicious by ozduo · 2012-09-26 19:18 · Score: 0

Nuke the bastards

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I got to the chocolate box before you, that's why the hard ones have teeth marks.
Fence? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 19:43 · Score: 0

A 'Fence' surely isn't to DETECT space objects, surely a fence is to keep them out? What will the USAF do when they detect them? Declare them enemy combatants and arrest any journalists who reports on them?
Fence my ass.
1. Re:Fence? by srussia · 2012-09-26 20:23 · Score: 2
  
  A 'Fence' surely isn't to DETECT space objects, surely a fence is to keep them out?
  No, no, you misunderstand. It will be used to SELL stolen space junk!
  
  --
  Set your phasers on "funky"!
2. Re:Fence? by boundary · 2012-09-26 20:41 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Fence my ass.
  This is Slashdot, not Craigslist.
Predictions by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 19:59 · Score: 0

USAF officers proposing this, on retirement, will take up consulting positions with corps supplying the equipment.
Felon? by sgrover · 2012-09-26 20:23 · Score: 1

Guess they have discovered that crime DOES pay.
"A fence is an individual who knowingly buys stolen property for later resale, sometimes in a legitimate market." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fence_(criminal)
The Air Force is wrong by maroberts · 2012-09-26 20:24 · Score: 0

They do not set First Post. Slashdot commenters set First Post!

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Space Mexicans by scorp1us · 2012-09-26 20:38 · Score: 2

Are the true illegal aliens.

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What are the military applications? by FhnuZoag · 2012-09-26 20:46 · Score: 1

Space Fence, eh....
I'm a little bit suspicious. What else can this site track? Will the US be sharing its data with everyone, or will there be many convenient holes in coverage?
1. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 21:30 · Score: 0
  
  Why on earth would the US be expected to share data gathered by this with "everyone"? Is "everyone" planning on chipping in to cover the tab, or has "everyone" just become so accustomed to the US spending enormous amounts of money to improve the world that it is now expected?
2. Re:What are the military applications? by FhnuZoag · 2012-09-26 21:52 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Because Kessler Syndrome. Space debris collisions create more space debris, which in the long term will cause problems for the use of space with everyone. Ideally these things should be dealt with internationally - it doesn't really make sense to have every nation look after their own satellites, and it'd lead to much wasteful duplication of effort.
3. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 21:54 · Score: 0
  
  Again: is "everyone" going to chip in to cover the tab, or does "everyone" just expect the US will foot the bill alone? I wholeheartedly agree that an international solution would be best, but an international solution also includes international funding.
4. Re:What are the military applications? by FhnuZoag · 2012-09-26 22:00 · Score: 2
  
  The ideal solution would certainly be that everyone would chip in, since it's in everyone's interests. If the US is determined to go it alone anyway and build this thing, though, a far sighted strategist should realise that *even if* no one else offers to pay, it serves long term US interests to actually share this data with as many countries at possible. And maybe such a move would create goodwill and help dispel suspicion, and encourage global support (and funding) for future maintenance of the project.
5. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 22:48 · Score: 1
  
  So, just to be clear: the best reason for sharing this information with everyone is that maybe they will be grateful and help pay for maintenance? Why on earth would we expect that to work when we've already shown we'll happily pay for it ourselves and share the information? More to the point, why is it better than selling the information at a price that is (slightly) lower than what a country would have to spend to set up and maintain their own equivalent system, which would guarantee funding?
6. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 00:41 · Score: 0
  
  The reason for sharing this information is that without this information other nations' space programs are more likely to have space collisions which will result in more space junk that will make things harder for us.
7. Re:What are the military applications? by gman003 · 2012-09-27 02:53 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it can probably track in-flight ICBMs, but that's all I can think of (and those aren't exactly new).
8. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 03:11 · Score: 0
  
  No that logic doesn't follow at all. How many times has rocket collided with a piece of space debris? Exactly, and it isn't about to happen anytime soon just because the US isn't going to give extra data nobody even had before. Any space program worth its salt is perfectly capable of avoiding debris and has been doing so since inception (since, you know, not blowing up is kind of important to a space program).
9. Re:What are the military applications? by ClickOnThis · 2012-09-27 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  Space Fence, eh....
  I'm a little bit suspicious. What else can this site track? Will the US be sharing its data with everyone, or will there be many convenient holes in coverage?
  Obviously they're going to track every object of concern that they can. The project makes no sense otherwise.
  My guess is that the information will be redacted before it is shared, to remove anything that is strategically sensitive. That includes, for example, information about spy satellites, whether they're "ours" or "theirs."
  As for whether this project is intended to track stuff for strategic gain, I'd be surprised if that didn't happen, but I'm not sure that's its primary purpose.
  
  --
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10. Re:What are the military applications? by maxwell+demon · 2012-09-27 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  Didn't you read the title? The whole thing is there to get first post. Therefore it obviously tracks Slashdot stories.
  
  --
  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
11. Re:What are the military applications? by White+Yeti · 2012-09-27 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  This is the best reply I've read here. I think that back when they built the current system (article says 1961) the military wanted to know where everything was so they could identify the military threats. (You also don't want to launch your counter-strike when that Russian rocket booster burns up over Alaska.) That's still the case, but the use for collision avoidance is becoming more important now. The data go into real-time calculations and also into long-term environmental models.
  
  The data (sure...minus classified) are already available to the public, with the caveat that these are averaged/low-res data not suitable for collision avoidance.
12. Re:What are the military applications? by shiftless · 2012-09-27 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  The reason for sharing this information is that without this information other nations' space programs are more likely to have space collisions which will result in more space junk that will make things harder for us.
  And harder for the other nations, too. But not so hard for us since we have a radar that can track space junk. Right?
13. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  We currently have a "Fence" that extends across the southern US. It is an electronic curtain that can detect whenever an object in space passes through the curtain. It tracks objects only by keeping track of when the object penetrates the curtain on each orbit. That "Fence" was constructed in 1961 by the Navy as a reaction to the Soviet launches. The parts are very old and hard to obtain today. The USAF has been trying to shut it down for several years but it provides too much data that lots of people, civilian and government, rely on. Sounds like the USAF has finally decided to build a new one and in the usual USAF tradition make it "bigger and better". AKA lots of money for Lockheed.
14. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 09:51 · Score: 0
  
  Actually the old fence doesn't do much for ICBMS as they don't orbit and would only penetrate the "fence" once. We have satellites for that mission.
15. Re:What are the military applications? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 13:17 · Score: 0
  
  they could outsource it to PBS, it's the same business model
16. Re:What are the military applications? by ClickOnThis · 2012-09-27 15:14 · Score: 1
  
  You act like no other countries are going to do this on their own. In fact, they already are doing it and have been for some time. And they know the value of sharing what they find, just like the USA does. Knowledge shared is knowledge improved.
  
  --
  If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
17. Re:What are the military applications? by FhnuZoag · 2012-09-28 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  Your attitude is incredibly ignorant and short sighted. Look at this graph.
  http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/multimedia/0212-spacejunk/img/chart-historical-debris-growth.jpg
  Then tell me space debris will not become a problem.
  And yes, collisions have happened.
  http://www.space.com/5542-satellite-destroyed-space-collision.html
  More will happen, if people don't come together and deal with it.
18. Re:What are the military applications? by FhnuZoag · 2012-09-28 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  Secondary debris from collisions are smaller and more difficult to track.
Step 1: Space Fence by Required+Snark · 2012-09-26 21:07 · Score: 1

Step 2: Stay off my Space Lawn, you pesky kids!!

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Why is Snark Required?
1. Re:Step 1: Space Fence by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 01:14 · Score: 0
  
  Step 2: Stay off my Space Lawn, you pesky space kids!!
  FTFY
2. Re:Step 1: Space Fence by ThatsMyNick · 2012-09-27 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  Step 2: Stay off my Space Junk, you pesky neighbors!!
  FTFY
First post! by TheRaven64 · 2012-09-26 21:08 · Score: 1, Troll

Damn! The Air Force beat me to it.

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Space Fence by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 21:08 · Score: 0

Space Fence v. - To fence in space.
So, they're either going to have astronaut duels, or sell stolen space junk?
5 Years?! by thatskinnyguy · 2012-09-26 21:29 · Score: 1

Son of a bitch. Anywhere but government would I be laughed at with such a proposal. "5 years before yielding any results" would normally require a "fuck off" by normal people.

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1. Re:5 Years?! by Daniel+Dvorkin · 2012-09-27 01:13 · Score: 2
  
  Thanks for providing a fine example of the short-term thinking that's endemic to the private sector. This is exactly why governments can, and do, accomplish useful things that the private sector can't. Or do you really believe that everything important can be done in less than five years?
  
  --
  The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
2. Re:5 Years?! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 06:14 · Score: 0
  
  The funny thing is 5 years is overly optimistic. I have worked on space related projects for the government for years. They are almost always over budget and over schedule. A general rule of thumb is to double both the time and money to get the real answer.
That's obvious by captainpanic · 2012-09-26 21:38 · Score: 2

Applications are:
1. Track other spy satellites, of the Russians, Indians, Chinese. In the future, I guess that these countries will have hundreds of those - many quite small.
2. Avoid collisions of their own satellites. The US also has hundreds of satellites in orbit.
3. Avoid collisions of other (commercial?) satellites, thereby protecting US economic interests.
In this particular case, I don't care whether they share. Even if they don't share, I am not particularly worried. What flies overhead shouldn't be hidden anyway. Anyone who feels like monitoring that can go ahead. Would be nice if they share the data, but I understand if they don't.
First... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 21:51 · Score: 0

You just wanted to get the words "First Post" in there, didn't you?
"Space Fence" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 22:09 · Score: 0

This is obviously a ground tracking station for satellites. What the location should tell you is WHOSE satellites they're interested in tracking: China's. Marshall islands probably have LOS to China's geostationary sats.
1. Re:"Space Fence" by maxwell+demon · 2012-09-27 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  I've got news to you: The satellites of a country don't generally stay above that country. With the exception of geostationary satellites, of course, but those are the least interesting to track.
  
  --
  The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-26 23:43 · Score: 0

Get off my lawn!
Damn punk martian teenagers.
First Post? by Fished · 2012-09-26 23:49 · Score: 1

Am I the only one who, upon reading the words "first post", thought this article had something to do with Natalie Portman, hot grits, and somebody's pants?

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A space fence? by rossdee · 2012-09-27 01:52 · Score: 1

Someone who would buy and sell stolen moon rocks, and pieces of crashed satellites
But I did think of another idea.
If you wanted to build a space fence, you would need a very high fence post, going up to 50,000 miles or so. (well it could be shorted but it would have to have a counterweight at the top, so that the center of mass is at 25,000 miles, and it would orbit above a spot on the equator without needing any fuel to keep it there.
You could also call it a 'Clarke Tower' after the guy who wrote about it.
(NASA could never get funding to build a space elevator, but maybe the Air Force Space Command could get funding for a Space Fence
This is actually an upgrade to an existing system by toejam13 · 2012-09-27 04:34 · Score: 2

The USAF already has a system for detecting objects orbiting the planet called SPASUR. It operates on the VHF band just above the North American slot for TV channel 13.
The new "space fence" will operate on the S band, which is a microwave frequency. The idea is that the shorter wavelength will allow ground radar to detect smaller debris than could be detected with the longer wavelength SPASUR system.
Re:This is actually an upgrade to an existing syst by DECula · 2012-09-27 08:49 · Score: 1

The current system has a transmitter near Wichita Falls, TX and some folks in New Mexico have a
receiver you can listen to online that provides a tone when something reflects the signal.
Works good during meteor showers.
Take a listen at:
http://spaceweatherradio.com/

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Air force advantages by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 20:54 · Score: 0

There are so many advantages of air force in the country
1. Re:Air force advantages by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-27 21:00 · Score: 0
  
  I agreed