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Astronomy Portfolio Review Recommends Defunding US's Biggest Telescope
derekmead writes "Data from the enormous Green Bank Telescope at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory has been used to test some of Einstein's theories, discover new molecules in space, and find evidence of the building blocks of life and of the origins of galaxies. With 6,600 hours of observation time a year, the GBT produces massive amounts of data on the makeup of space, and any researchers with reason to use the data are welcome to do so. The eleven-year-old GBT stands as one of the crowning achievements of American big science. But with the National Science Foundation strapped for cash like most other science-minded government agencies, the NRAO's funding is threatened. In August of this year, the Astronomy Portfolio Review, a committee appointed by the NSF, recommended that the GBT be defunded over the next five years. Researchers, along with locals and West Virginia congressmen, are fighting the decision, which puts the nearly $100 million telescope at risk. Unless they succeed, America's giant dish will go silent."
Good. That's a lot of money to be used to feed and provide health care to people.
Isn't that the Telescope from X-men First Class, Magneto will be very angry if you defund that
GBT? Screw them for leaving out Lesbians. They deserve to be defunded.
OK, I know I'm being a bit of a pedant ... but it's listening, it's already silent. ;-)
That being said, this sucks ... the amount of actual science we do seem to keep falling. But we've got money to teach Creationism in schools.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Aren't telescopes already silent?
I read the internet for the articles.
Not just the GBT is at risk in all of this, and honestly NRAO is being selfish and shortsighted in their responses to the portfolio review. There are 5 optical telescopes at the national observatory at Kitt Peak, AZ that are set to be divested from the NSF as well, and their loss is much, much more devastating to the amount of open-access telescope time that is set to be lost if the facilities are closed or go into closed private partnerships. The closing of the Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA) means the loss of literally a one-of-a-kind setup as well. It's bad across all parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, but the decision to stop spending money on these telescopes preserves the NSF astronomy grants program which funds a ton of astronomers, engineers, and students of all levels (myself included). The portfolio review didn't come up with any answers that we liked, but at least it's an honest estimate of what we have vs. what we expect funding wise; things are getting even worse with the upcoming budget sequestration. The big worry among astronomers is that we're returning to a time when only large institutions have access to telescope time, the exact reasoning behind the creation of the US national observatory system in the first place. Public-private partnerships will likely come around somehow to keep these facilities operating, but it's early still to know what those will entail in terms of open-access telescope time.
I'm hoping we are learning to take science (particularly space in this case) out of the 'gov't' sector...if this telescope was privately funded, they wouldn't have to be dealing with partisan crap based on ideological 'budgets'...politics...but that's the price for receiving 'public funding'...*shrugs*
There are three kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't.
I wonder what it would take to actually run one of the things? If it can be made to run itself, and access specs can be published on an official website for shared access... I can see it being totally cool to have anybody with a way to connect be able to pull their own data in about the universe.
First its cuts to fund the Platonic schools. Then its limits on what can be said at the agora (nothing bad can be said about senators or Caesar). Then its cuts to the Legion. You change their breakfast diet, then you go for lower quality swords and shields. Then you ask that they join the legion with their own sword and shield. In a few short years, you go from ruling the world, to losing Brittania, then Gaul, and finally fighting off the Hun, and ultimately watching Rome burn. But start off by being cheap with the scholars. That's right. We already know all there is to know. Oh, by the way, are those proposing cuts from Crete? They seem like Cretans.
Continue destroying anything science-related and pushing for more crazy religions in your schools!
Well if George W Rich Kid, and all the other greedy, selfish rich people, would not have wasted so much money, we would not be in this situation. For example, all the people at the big banks, AIG, the credit rating agencies, the mortgage companies, all of those institutions documented in the movie Inside Job, they ripped us all off, and they should be giving all that money back.
Of course they're cutting funding. Green Banks has come close to finding the aliens living in orbit around a couple of nearby stars on several occasions. Damn close. The government needs to cut funding to prevent identification of the aliens --- the powers that be are aware of the aliens and know what kind of retribution they will bring on the Earth if humans become aware of "other" species existence. There has been very limited contact through Air Force satellites. The aliens have made their intentions very clear: As long as we remain a quaint backwater planet with no ability to travel off the small rock we live on, we are not a threat. As soon as we become a threat, the simplest course of action is to exterminate all life on the planet (that would be us). If Green Banks manages to identify the aliens, noone will be able to keep it quiet. It will drive interest in space exploration, funding for the space program, development of space vessels and then the genie is out of the bottle, so to speak. It cannot be allowed to happen. So, it is the Government's intention to quash funding for NRO and NASA, for the preservation of the human race.
Somehow it will get funding...
They should defund the Senate Launch System instead and fund more of these science programs. (Like a few more Mars Rovers).
God forbid our kids might learn some real science, lets just send them to Sunday school instead.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Isn't this the way it should be working? Allocate X dollars to group. Group really needs X + Y dollars to do everything they want so they create a group to review all the projects and allocate the dollars. If you don't have enough funding, programs WILL be cut or scaled back. Save program A and program B is cut, which costs jobs around program B. Congrats though, program A's jobs are intact.
Prioritization sucks but if you don't have all the funding you need you have to make the call at some point. Having a (theoretically neutral) group review everything and make the call is better than having Congress make the decisions for you. And yeah, it would be much better for everyone if there was enough funding, that's the easy way out of this dilemma.
-- Ravensfire
"But we decide which is right, and which is an illusion"
It is in West Virginia. Let that state take on its operating costs. They can charge the West Virginia users, other U.S. users, and foreign users a fixed price or a sliding scale based on their location and usage to cover its cost. All of the researchers can try to convince their respective employers or governments that they need to cover their now higher costs of research or try to go use some other facility.
After a couple of years, it will either be making money for the state, just covering expenses, or losing money. If the later, then at some point the legislature of West Virginia can decide if the money lost is worth the prestige of the science being done in their state.
Just because the federal government doesn't want to fund it anymore is no reason that it has to shut down. Is it a sad decision? Yes. But you can't live beyond your means forever and the bills that are coming due are big and there are fewer and fewer taxpayers coming along to cover them. The trouble is that the currently popular parties don't see science as a priority. For the Rs, shoveling money to defense and fighting wars is the priority. For the Ds, shoveling money to social programs while sucking 50 to 75% of it into government bureaucracy is the priority. Neither are sound policy.
If you want to change things, get involved in politics at all levels and swamp your elected officials with your opinions. They do respond - at least minimally - to voter pressure. For the foreigners posting, if the GBT is important to you how about chipping in money to pay for its cost yourselves?
I can't help but think it would be better funded if it had some lesbians too.
I thought that the telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico was the US's biggest telescope. Did Puerto Rico vote for independence while we weren't looking?
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
I love all these discoveries. I'm forced to admit, however, that astronomy, per se, has never made anyone a dime. If we found evidence of alien life on a planet orbiting Sirius B tomorrow, this would not change, no matter how mind blowing such a discovery would be.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
sad but true & funny ...
Having Bob Byrd or Bud Shuster's name on any project implies it had no redeeming value other than helping the pol get reelected. Thankfully both are gone.
That model has worked well. The state agency where I work charges DHS, FEMA, other states and state agencies etc. for our services. We do.a good job and do it efficiently, not wasting money, because we have to compete for those contracts. (Mostly training disaster prevention, managing disaster scenarios, and training first responders.)
maybe we are "snack food" for some other species. we already have a common thing with Vampires calling us "happy meals on 2 legs" so what do you think??
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So this unit has a bit of history -- there used to be a 300-foot diameter transit telescope on the site, which collapsed in 1988. The Byrd telescope was an upgrade, being fully steerable and covering more of the spectrum. The location is fairly special too, it's in a radio-quiet zone with some other NRAO telescopes, and close to the Navy's radio observatory site.
The thing only started working in August of 2000, it seems a shame to shut it down after such a small fraction of its expected operating lifetime.
2*3*3*3*3*11*251
Has anyone actually READ the Review's reasons for de-funding the telescope, or did everyone who posted here, just settle for the lazy brain knee-jerk reaction response? Is there perhaps given a reality of limited funding that there are OTHER science projects that need a greater priority? Maybe the choice this time isn't between science and welfare, but science and science?
"It's a cookbook!" "A cookbook!"
Maybe if they didn't spend so much money on other things they could afford to keep it.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
The "Contact" book/movie story, reloaded.
and other high profile rich Dems continously cry about how they don't pay enough in taxes, blah blah blah. Well, here's a suggestion: get together and fund the GBT. Or a few other projects that face the federal axe. Of course this will never happen, at least not until pigs fly in things other than airplanes.
at garage sale prices.
Air Conditioning the Military Costs More Than NASA Budget
http://gizmodo.com/5813257/air-conditioning-our-military-costs-more-than-nasas-entire-budget
That says a lot about this country and where it's headed. It has no problem cooling troops in a war that has no purpose and no end, even when "we are broke!". But funding anything that might be remotely useful? Forget it!
Air Conditioning the Military Costs More Than NASA's entire Budget: http://gizmodo.com/5813257/air-conditioning-our-military-costs-more-than-nasas-entire-budget
That says a lot about this country and where it's headed. It has no problem cooling troops in a war that has no purpose and no end, even when "we are broke!". But funding anything that might be remotely useful? Forget it!
Just like the Space Shuttle, another one bites the dust.
The real reason its being shut down is due to the belief by America's republicans that it has ties with the LGBT. This is a war against gay marriage through and through.
The Dish http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0205873/ in Parkes NSW Australia, has had a 40% reduction in it's budget. They just found ways to work remotely so no one would have to endure the drive to the middle of the sheep paddock in the outback.
I have heard however it's run a bit like a 'sheltered workshop', with special buses for staff and lots of other perks.
The government shouldn't fund telescopes - or ideally even exist (although this transition will inevitably take many decades, and the government will need to sustain itself to manage its gradual decline).
If it provides practical benefits, then a business model can be built around it. If it's just a hobby that some people enjoy - let them pay for it through donations.
In grand total, Uncle Sam only spends $225 / year per-capita on all "scientific / medical research". (Let's forget for a moment that much of this is wasted due to the corrupt and inefficient nature of gov monopoly spending, and that some of it would be funded by for-profit institutions if government money hadn't crowded them out.) Don't you think Americans could handle donating this much (on average - many would donate zilch, a few would donate billions) to their favorite research causes on a voluntary basis?!
Without the "let the government worry about that" mentality and the distractions of the political circus, we would see a cultural evolution where people would be judged by their philanthropic associations. Scientific projects can do many things to give recognition to their sponsors. Being a patron of a telescope project would be seen as cool and civilized, while buying a Porsche would be seen as lame and boring in comparison!
--libman