Save the Web From Software Patents

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Save the Web From Software Patents

Posted by Unknown on Monday October 1, 2012 @01:01PM from the byline-discontinued-due-to-patent-lawsuit dept.

TheNextCorner writes "PersonalWeb's software patent suit against Github and others threatens the freedom of the Web. In order to make sure that the Web can remain a free and accessible space for everyone, we need to rid ourselves of all the patents that threaten its viability. We need to end software patents."

29 of 127 comments (clear)

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Right... by santax · 2012-10-01 13:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

Very informative... at the very least mention this is FSF's viewpoint on the issue. Also, it's ok to write more than 3 sentences. Thank you.
1. Re:Right... by stevejf · 2012-10-01 13:28 · Score: 2
  
  Agreed. If this is supposed to be a news site, at least present things as news articles, not as unqualified statements of opinion.
2. Re:Right... by Charliemopps · 2012-10-01 14:32 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I disagree. Software patents, if allowed to continue, will likely destroy this site, along with many others like it. Is a man in shackles ever unbiased about his right to a trial? Are reporters unbiased when they report on freedom of the press? Should slashdot pretend to be unbiased when it comes to freedom of the internet? When it comes to survival, we are all rightfully biased towards self preservation and there is no shame in it.
3. Re:Right... by phantomfive · 2012-10-01 17:47 · Score: 2
  
  Also, it's ok to write more than 3 sentences.
  Says the guy who wrote 2 and 1/2 sentences....
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
4. Re:Right... by santax · 2012-10-01 18:24 · Score: 2
  
  And that, my friend, is why you don't see me submitting stories here.
Well, yes, but it is not going to be easy by gweihir · 2012-10-01 13:16 · Score: 5, Insightful

Remember that quite a few powerful companies have built their fortune on abusing the patent system.

--
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
1. Re:Well, yes, but it is not going to be easy by Nethemas+the+Great · 2012-10-01 14:03 · Score: 2
  
  Not going to be easy? It won't happen. Period. Too much money has already exchanged hands. Any solution to this nightmare will by necessity have to enable companies to retain the invested value of their patent portfolio and licensing while being universally applied to all jurisdictions around the world. It is the equivalent of de-weaponizing every nation-state, every NGO. In other words it's a pipe dream. Politicians could have nipped this in the bud maybe twenty years ago but now they are simply impotent and couldn't fix this even if they actually had the will to do so. There is no end but that of blood and fire.
  
  --
  Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
2. Re:Well, yes, but it is not going to be easy by JWW · 2012-10-01 15:58 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I am beginning to believe that our screwed up patent system is the primary reason small businesses are failing to get started and why we're struggling so much to get out of the recession.
3. Re:Well, yes, but it is not going to be easy by JasterBobaMereel · 2012-10-01 19:50 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Move your company to Europe, do not trade with the USA, instead only trade with the mysterious entity know as the "rest of the world" which has a very large, diverse and robust economy and slightly less powerful corporations, laugh all the way to the bank ...
  
  --
  Puteulanus fenestra mortis
4. Re:Well, yes, but it is not going to be easy by dargaud · 2012-10-01 20:28 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Move your company to Europe, do not trade with the USA, instead only trade with the mysterious entity know as the "rest of the world" which has a very large, diverse and robust economy and slightly less powerful corporations, laugh all the way to the bank ...
  There is an incredible push in Europe to pass software patents as well. It's been cancelled twice by a hair. But the European Patent Office has already hired people to take care of software patents. I know, I was one of the heads hunted.
  
  --
  Non-Linux Penguins ?
Time to end patents by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-01 13:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

I was convinced they were needed, if only for Pharmaceuticals, where the testing time is long but the time to copy short, but now I'm having doubts even there:
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.htm
The test for me is the cure for aids vs the cure for limp penis. Patents simply haven't delivered a cure for a major disease in 30 years, they have however invented many ways to get a penis erect and a seemingly endless way to cure headaches.
US is stagnating, down from 1st to 3rd with China taking second spot on the exporters list. This I think is a direct result of strong IP laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports
1. Re:Time to end patents by santax · 2012-10-01 13:36 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Well the pharma's have no reason to cure cancer or aids. It would cost them heaps in medicine that just prolong the patients life and already are incredible expensive (not to make, but to buy). Curing these people is like cutting yourself off from a really good source of income.
Re:Ok but by viperidaenz · 2012-10-01 13:26 · Score: 2

Please note, the story is about software patents, not all patents. Europe currently does a better job at patents than USA seems to be doing.
iPhone users talking about freedom? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-01 13:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wonder if all those people talking about software freedom use iPhones.
Re:Ok but by Yvanhoe · 2012-10-01 13:32 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sounds trollish but I am serious : come in France, or any European country with sane dispositions. VLC could probably not have existed as a US project, or could not have read DVDs.

Show the US government that software patents hurt innovation so much that it causes migration of innovative firms.

--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Re:Fuck github by santax · 2012-10-01 13:34 · Score: 2

Programming is math, algorithms, nothing more. It's idiotic that you can patent an idea or algorithm. What's next, patenting + and - ? Or maybe Pi?
I'm surprised... by jedirock · 2012-10-01 13:44 · Score: 5, Informative

that no one mentioned the very well written article posted on ArsTechnica yesterday about the patent system and the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. As expected, a very US-centric view on the problem, but it does raise some obvious issues. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/how-a-rogue-appeals-court-wrecked-the-patent-system/
Re:too much money in software patents for the lawy by MaskedSlacker · 2012-10-01 13:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

Any person is able to represent themselves 'pro se.'
And only a moron does in a patent case. The law is written to be byzantine and incomprehensible as a make work project for the lawyers, by the lawyers.
Re:too much money in software patents for the lawy by MightyYar · 2012-10-01 14:08 · Score: 4, Informative

It's worse than that. The federal politicians are also mostly lawyers. Obama and Romney both have a J.D.
It's a monoculture, and I don't care how much you like lawyers, a monoculture is not good for the country.

--
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Fuck github by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-01 14:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

The prevailing philosophy holds that Mathematics is discovered, not invented. This is especially true when referring to reality; if you can choose arbitrary axioms you might be able to invent things. Otherwise, your solution is dictated by your choices.
Even if what you say is true, though, that is not an argument for patents. Empirical studies suggest that patents are used mostly to stifle competition, and their mechanism is fairly anti-capitalist.
Therefore to the degree to which you support patents, you're mostly a douche.
Humans are assholes. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-01 14:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

Some humans really love getting more than they give, having lots of power over others and abusing it for the sake of abusing it, and so on.
The overwhelming majority of the rest of humanity likes being as lazy as possible in order to achieve their mediocre existence, never putting themselves out to change things that don't seem like they will make a really huge difference in their own lives. It is *so* much easier to let other people fight the important battles while watching TV and feeling smug after having voted.
The tiny remainder who actually care about justice, and about helping humanity achieve its full potential, are completely outnumbered (by the slothful) and outgunned (by the powerful).
Maybe we will grow out of this someday. Until then, expect widespread failure.
1. Re:Humans are assholes. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-01 18:35 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  The tiny remainder who actually care about justice, and about helping humanity achieve its full potential, are completely outnumbered (by the slothful) and outgunned (by the powerful).
  Yes, but this is the remainder we refer to as, Mad Scientist, Evil Genius, Arch Nemesis, etc... It only takes a few of those to make big changes.
  I'm one of your "remainder". For instance: Let's sterilize all the retards, and institude licenses and genetic screening for all births. Let's require IQ tests for Citizenship (and thus voter's rights). Let's throw out any Judges and Jurors that can't pass a quiz on the subject the're ruling over. Let's treat the populous like test subjecs: Why roll out a economic, health, or other plan across the whole nation and hope it works, when you can experiment with a small state, roll out to a larger are incrementally as you work out kinks or just throw the plan away if it sucks? Equality?! Don't make me Mua-Ha-Haa!
  In a Mad Scientist, the important part is the Scientist. The "Mad" part is your worthless opinion. You don't have to be any kind of scientist to realize that working under unproven asumptions is a bad idea. If you think you can fly, you first jump off a table and flap your arms; not from a 20 story building. The sane thing to do is collect a little proof by doing a little test before taking the big plunge. As a Scientist I say: If the Patent System is beneficial, then WHERE THE FUCK IS THE EVIDENCE? Let's do a test, and see?! No, they say? Then they're insane! You don't have to be Evil or a Genius to realize we have ZERO evidence for or against patents being benefical. The only sane thing to do is abolish patents and find out how harmful or beneficial they were. We can re-institute whatever rules we want later if it doesn't work out.
  Right now all we have is an untested hypothesis -- a widespread established assumption; You know, like when everyone thought "The Earth is Flat!", it only took a few Mad Scientists to prove that wrong. If things keep going the way they're going and we don't at least do the experiment then we're eventually going to piss off the wrong Evil Genius -- The Patent Office might not be the only institution that gets obliterated by the "Mad" Scientists.
Re:Fuck github by jd2112 · 2012-10-01 14:15 · Score: 2

Programming is math, algorithms, nothing more. It's idiotic that you can patent an idea or algorithm. What's next, patenting + and - ? Or maybe Pi?
+ and -? No. Pi? No. A new algorithm for calculation of Pi? Perhaps. Not all software patents are bad but the bar is set WAY too low. At least 95% of all software patents should never have been granted.

--
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
20/20 Hindsight by Type44Q · 2012-10-01 14:49 · Score: 2

We need to end software patents
I seem to recall that back in the day it was pretty fucking obvious what would happen if we allowed them in the first place. Fat lot of fucking good that did, however...
Re:Fuck github by cheekyjohnson · 2012-10-01 15:00 · Score: 2

But other people feel entitled to create little monopolies for themselves using the government's power. That's okay, though.

--
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
The web? by aliquis · 2012-10-01 15:03 · Score: 2

I thought we didn't had them here?
Sounds like a US problem.
Doubt it would kill the web globally.
FUD ;)
You are wrong in every conceivable way by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-01 17:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

Your logic sucks. Mostly you repeat your premise. You are also as factually wrong as it is possible to be.
Physics, chemistry, and engineering can be modeled using math. The map is not the territory, however: we cannot make mathematically provable statements about reality using these models. For a more detailed view on determinism in quantum mechanics, and uncertainty principle, see elsewhere.
Computer languages are an extension of lambda calculus. Lisp syntax is extremely similar to lambda calculus. Algorithms are straight math. So is binary arithmetic -- which, buried under layers of abstraction, is all your computer really does. It's a pain in the ass, but computer programs can be mathematically proved to be correct (this is not quite equivalent to being bug-free).
What could an algorithm be if not mathematics?
Slashdot may repeat this concept because it is as fundamental to computing as evolution is to biology. In a few simple words you have revealed oceans of profound ignorance. You can either choose to accept reality and grow in knowledge, or deny it and grow in bitterness. But, fyi, this one is sillier than most attempts to tilt at windmills.
Re:Fuck github by JasterBobaMereel · 2012-10-01 19:53 · Score: 3, Informative

I have "invented" many things as have most people, but since I did them at work my employer is the only one who could patent them ,,,
Does this inspire me to innovate? Do I reap the benefits ...?
More to the point did the lack of patents stop people innovating before they were invented?

--
Puteulanus fenestra mortis
Re:too much money in software patents for the lawy by Thugthrasher · 2012-10-02 00:49 · Score: 2

Your response would be more appropriate if the law was still as it was in 1787. As it is, things have changed a bit since then.