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They Work Long Hours, But What About Results?

theodp writes "HBS lecturer Robert C. Pozen says it's high time for management to stop emphasizing hours over results. By viewing those employees who come in over the weekend or stay late in the evening as more 'committed' and 'dedicated' to their work, as a UC Davis study showed, managers create a perverse incentive to not be efficient and get work done during normal business hours. 'It's an unfortunate reality that efficiency often goes unrewarded in the workplace,' writes Pozen. 'Focusing on results rather than hours will help you accomplish more at work and leave more time for the rest of your life.'"

17 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. Measuring results by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Judging employees by results is great, if you have a good way to measure results.

    This is notoriously difficult in creative, team efforts such a software development.

    1. Re:Measuring results by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its not really. Specifications -> result. That does depend on having a manager sufficiently on the ball to have constant contact with sales and marketing though, and able to tell them that scope creep will cost more and slow things down.

      Really I'm amazed that results based metrics aren't standard everywhere, I've worked with companies where management doesn't care when people show up as long as they meet their milestones. A company that puts "time at your desk" before "results" will be eaten by one that has the two in the correct order.

    2. Re:Measuring results by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, judging results by now many hours were worked is easy

      Actually that's quite hard.

      Measuring how many hours they were present, that's easy.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Measuring results by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm a manager and I find scope creep works both ways. My job is largely protect my team from customers and sales guys who want to change the requirements AND to protect the sales guys and customers from coders who constantly want to leave out or do a halfassed implementation of important features. As much as possible I tell customers and salespeople that their requests are not in scope and would cause schedule delays and cost increases and I tell employees to implement the features as they were originally agreed with customers or sales.

      Sales guys are generally a lot worse than customers. Customers generally know what they want and know they don't know what we can do. Sales guys don't know what customers want and don't know that they don't know what we can do.

      Of the development guys, the most dependable are the firmware guys, who almost always have a clear idea what they can do with hardware. Then the hardware guys, who are prone to mistakes but know very well how much time it takes to design hardware to meet reasonably well-defined specs. At the bottom of the barrel are the software guys. They can do amazing things but have absolutely no idea how long it will take to do them and can't communicate their status to managers and can't communicate with customers (with a few blessed exceptions).

  2. Not all companies are the same by TheLink · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know someone who some years ago started work in a Scandinavian company. He then started staying back late (everyone else left mostly on time).

    After a few days the boss came to him and asked him:
    1) Is there a problem with the project? Are there enough people and resources allocated for it?
    2) Does he need extra training to do his job?
    3) Is the job a good fit for him?

    So he stopped staying late just for the sake of staying late ;).

    --
    1. Re:Not all companies are the same by houghi · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is basically every company I worked for in Europe. If you do 2-5 hours of overtime a week it will be much. That is 30 minutes to 1 hour per day.

      Where I work now, when I do one hour overtime, my manager comes to me and asks when I want to take that hour back and go home early or come in late.

      If there are 2 people working 60 hours a week, it could also be 3 people working 40 and most likely more efficient as they won't be burned out.

      Now you could say that if I would work 60 hours instead of 40, I could earn 50% more. (Not true, but let us assume that) I still would not be willing to do that, because I work to live. I do not live to work. This is also understood by all the bosses I have had and they do the same.

      Yes, most of the companies made money and some lost money, just like any other business in the world.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    2. Re:Not all companies are the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, I would say that this sounds like most Scandinavian companies. I live in Finland, and you're not expected to put in more than your 7-8h per day. Mandatory time tracking systems will not allow you to put in more hours than you're getting paid for, and if you do, you have to keep that time off work. The company can even be fined if you work too much overtime, so it is in the company's interest to make sure you don't work too much.

      Whenever we get new foreign people here, they think they can impress with working long hours. But they learn quickly. And working weekends, that's a completely unknown concept. For example, if you work on a Sunday, the company have to pay you up to 400% of your normal salary. I can count on one hand then number of times I've been called in for emergency work during weekends during the past 10 years. I'm a senior developer for a quite critical system.

      So, welcome! We have a quite advanced technology sector and practically everyone speaks fluent English here.

    3. Re:Not all companies are the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, I would say that this sounds like most Scandinavian companies. I live in Finland, and you're not expected to put in more than your 7-8h per day. Mandatory time tracking systems will not allow you to put in more hours than you're getting paid for, and if you do, you have to keep that time off work.

      I live in the United States, and at several jobs the mandatory time tracking system would not allow us to put in more hours than we were getting paid for.

      All this meant was that the bosses required us to lie on the time tracking system, and not record the 20-40 extra hours we were putting in every week.

  3. But if you're a lawyer... by randalotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The incentives are even worse if you're a lawyer. Inefficiency not only makes you look better for working long hours, but it objectively is better from the perspective of your employer. The more hours you work, the more you can charge the client. You solved a problem in 10 minutes because you're smart, know how to research and/or have worked on something like this before? Well shit... we were hoping it'd take 10 hours of research at $400/hour. The billable hour is terrible.

  4. One mark of a bad company... by cptdondo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I worked for a company that based your annual bonus on the amount of overtime you put in. Not productive, mind you, just hours. At the end of the year, they would tally up the hours you worked, and those with the most hours at their desk got the biggest bonuses.

    Being new to this, I asked my boss: "If I do everything right, and my project never needs rework, and my clients are happy, and all my projects are profitable, and I go home on time every day, will I get a bonus?" "No."

    "If I screw up, my projects are late and over budget, and I'm working a lot of hours because my clients are pissed at the low quality of work I do, and my projects constantly lose money because I'm an idiot, will I get a bonus?" "Yes."

    True to form, my bonus for the year was $50, in spite of being one of the most profitable employees in the organization. I left shortly thereafter.

    1. Re:One mark of a bad company... by cptdondo · · Score: 5, Funny

      It was actually pretty funny. Our team had cultivated our clients and we were quite profitable. We got bought by this other company with the bonus plan. Pretty much all of us quit within a year.

      At bonus time, one of our more outspoken engineers opened his bonus envelope, marched into the manager's office, slapped it on his desk, and yelled: "What am I supposed to do with this? Take my wife to McDonalds?" I hadn't laughed that hard since.

  5. Re:If I don't have a list of jobs to do, by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, if you worked for me and you left an hour or two early from time to time I'd have no problem with that. But in general I expect people who work for me to spend down time "sharpening their saw" by doing research and experimentation. So if you routinely had nothing to do for several hours a day, I'd expect you to find something to do that'll make you awesome on the next big project. If you didn't find something like that, I would. In that kind of work environment a few hours of "mental health leave" couple of weeks is no big deal, as long as you're doing a good job and getting better at it.

    When I managed a development team I recognized that the occasional all-nighter or weekend session was necessary,but I had a policy that my guys had to take comp time *right away*, within a day or two. That wasn't popular; they liked the idea of comp time, but they'd have preferred to bank it. But the point wasn't to compensate them for their extra effort -- they were salaried employees -- it was to make sure when they were at work their minds were sharp.

    I believe an engineering team needs three things: skill, energy and focus. "Dedication" is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned, at least if by that you mean some kind of sentimental attachment to the organization. If you have the big three, you'll get whatever else you need. Too many managers don't manage, they work out a personal psychodrama in which there are good employees and bad employees. To me that's baloney, unless an employee is "good" if and only if he contributes to productivity and "bad" if and only if he does not. An employee who suffers unproductively for the company is neurotic, no matter what else you choose to call him, and shouldn't be encouraged to do that.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  6. Teams and goals by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not just judge the team itself then, and let the immediate manager for that team decide who is valuable? A team will have goals that fit somewhere into the broader organizational goals; individuals on the team can advance those goals in different ways.

    Let's say, as an example, that you have two programmers on a team, Alice and Bob. Alice writes large amounts of code, which has few bugs and which works consistently, and she is an expert in the languages and libraries that are used by the team. Bob is not great at writing code and does not have the language expertise that Alice has, but he is great at solving problems and figuring out what code needs to be written. If Bob is not around, Alice produces less because she is not as good at problem solving; if Alice is not around, Bob tries to write the code and does a terrible job. Can you really say that one of these employees is "better" or "more valuable" than the other? What about Catherine, the person who is a mediocre coder and a mediocre problem solver, but who is great at keeping the team's morale up and who can help motivate people to meet deadlines (but who is not officially in a management position, and who maybe lacks the qualifications when it comes to organizing budgets or making tough hiring or firing decisions)?

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  7. Work to much results in not much getting done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a member of the military, we do heavily take our cues from the Boss (Commander or Chief) When they go home everyone else feels safe enough to head home.

    I learned a long time ago that was a pretty stupid thing to do. I've had a lot of bosses that hated their home life or didn't feel like driving accross town during rush hour, or were just burning time to make some regular events so they would stay late for no work related reason.

    I get dirty looks when I head out the door on time or early to go to the gym, like I'm skating. The reality is my bosses know I'm a go to guy when things are screwed up, that I've been known to work 16-24 hour straight when they really go south, that I'll come in for however long it takes on the weekends, and can be packed and out the door to Krap-ic-stan on deployment without much fuss...if there is an actual reason to do.

    Otherwise I head on home when it's time, take my vacation time without guilt, and ignore the drones' in the office snide comments, who make their own lives missereable while blaming it on work.

  8. Re:One way to do this... by DarthBart · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nobody "codes" in Perl. Perl programs are written by eating a bag of alphabet pasta and then chasing it with ipecac.

  9. "Fred Flintstones" by Frightened_Turtle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One VP for whom I used to work referred to employees that left right at closing time as "Fred Flintstones." He made sure his derisive attitude towards these employees was well displayed in front of the CEO of the company at the end of the day as the line of cars left the parking lot. Most of the employees who stayed after the 5PM quitting time were there because they started their shifts later than the other employees.

    This VP's attitude blinded him to the fact that those be labeled "Fred Flintstones" were on the job first thing in the morning, well before he arrived to sit in his office for the day doing nothing engaged with production of product in the company. Never mind that these very employees were the engineers that developed and made the technology of the company's primary product. Ironically, the one engineer he praised for staying late each day was staying late for a very special reason: it was the only time he could switch out the sabotaged firmware he created into shipping machines and put non-sabotaged firmware into machines that were being returned for "repairs". He was sabotaging the firmware in order to ensure that his job of hunting down bugs in the programming would be too important to get laid off.

    This sabotage was discovered when the engineer was out of vacation and forgot to remove his secret code from his computer. The senior engineer on the project needed to double check the programming, logged into the saboteur's computer and discovered the two sets of code. Sadly, it was long too late for the many employees that had to be laid off because the company was struggling due to the problems the device was having. Most of the employees let go were the ones the VP had labeled Fred Flintstones. With the truly productive employees gone, it was pretty much game over for the company. They were able to float a little longer, but the lack of improvement and productivity stopped any possibility of growth in the company. When the sabotage was discovered, the laid off employees were no longer available. Eventually, the company pretty much closed their doors, being bought out by a competitor.

    The attitude that the people who left at the end of the day and didn't put in extra hours were substandard employees was dead wrong. They were the people who made things happen in the company. Once let go, no longer were there any doers in the company and everything ground to a halt

    --


    Whew! This water sure is cold!
  10. Re:If I don't have a list of jobs to do, by hazah · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As one on the recieving end of such treatment, all I can say is thank you for seeing the light. As I'm constantly able to use my "free" time to do research on random subjects, more often than I tend to read about different aspects of what I'm tasked on. Each day brings new insight as a result. This allows me to constantly be a number of steps ahead on my approach on each new project. It is a balancing act, and you have to be careful not to over do it, but having the freedom to make such decisions had been invaluable to me as a tool of self improvement. I would even say it had worked for me to do this whenever a mental break was required. A 5 minute read on an equally important though currently unrelated topic is enough time to step away from a problem to refresh yourself and see it in a slightly new way. Our greatest mistake is to treat human beings as machines and expect them to thrive.