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The New School Nurse Is Nurse Ratched

theodp writes "In Ken Kesey's 1962 novel One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Nurse Ratched maintained order in the mental institution by dispensing antipsychotic and anticonvulsant drugs to the patients. Fifty years later, the NY Times reports that some physicians are prescribing stimulants to struggling students in schools starved of extra money, not to treat ADHD, necessarily, but to boost their academic performance. 'We as a society have been unwilling to invest in very effective nonpharmaceutical interventions for these children and their families,' said Dr. Ramesh Raghavan, an expert in prescription drug use among low-income children. 'We are effectively forcing local community psychiatrists to use the only tool at their disposal, which is psychotropic medications.'"

40 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. We've Given Up on Poor Kids by ohnocitizen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We've gotten to a sick point as a society. We know what works when it comes to education, it is no great mystery. Smaller classes, highly qualified and motivated teachers, involved parents. Instruction that imparts a love of learning and cultivates the desire to investigate the world around us.

    Instead of providing this, we drain schools of funding and treat teachers with hatred and distrust. Students in low income schools are subjected to draconian learning environments where their future is ruled by testable metrics and a discipline fetish.

    So doctors - despite knowing the significant risks of drugs that alter brain chemistry (especially with children) - are using their own tools to step in and help. Either they are way out of line, or they have hit the nail on the head by classifying academic performance as central to a child's long term health. Either way: they wouldn't be in this mess if we just invested in schools with a fraction of the enthusiasm with which we invest in bailing out banks and fighting wars.

    1. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Smaller classes, highly qualified and motivated teachers, involved parents.

      And community values.

      Ever wonder why Asian stiudents, no matter where they go to school, excel at academics while their American counter parts don't do as well?

      Community values which includes lots of parental encouragement - not all good admittedly.

      Asians as a whole value academics above sports and other activities.

      We Americans value the football hero, the entertainer, and the bling and superficial.

    2. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that it's a money pit. We're spending $526 billion on primary education. Fire the administrators. Double the teaching staff. Eliminate tenure.

    3. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are over generalizing (on Slashdot? The Horror) and mixing up symptom and cause.

      One of the several root causes for academic failure is social failure. The vast majority of human children need a consistent, controlled and supportive environment if they are to get as much as possible out of schooling. Chaos doesn't work well for most. Since we've not done such a good job with the society at large, especially for economically disadvantaged people, we now try to take it out on the schools which are forced to be in loco parentis for a while. That hasn't been working out well either.

      So we turn to drugs. Simple. Easy. Better living through chemistry and all that.

      Ought to be an interesting experiment.

      If I were the DEA or persons of similar persuasion, I would be shaking in my combat boots. Another generation even more attuned to psychotropic medication than the last couple of generations - who were doing pretty good with just amateur status. How are you going to get these kids to try to make the artificial distinction between 'good' and 'bad' drugs. Especially since a lot of these are pretty 'bad' drugs - they can make you feel crummy, they have significant side effects. They work in the brain (natch) so somebody is going to actually like the way they make you feel and want to buy them off of you. Whatcouldpossiblygowrong?

      (Complacently sips caffeinated beverage).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by ohnocitizen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      False. Total Expenditures for 2008 = 596 billion for both primary and secondary education. Of that, 506 billion was directly being spent by the districts (vs adult education, debt obligations, etc for the remainder).

      Plus, I wonder how much you know about schools that you would suggest firing administrators entirely.

    5. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      That would be parental involvement and the emphasis that individual Asian families put on academic success. In most of America, there aren't strong enough Asian local communities to really influence students. They just live too immersed in white, black or hispanic communities to feel much influence of Asian culture outside their home.

      But I agree that the excessiv emphasis on sports and other interests that is so common in America is not helpful for the long-term success of most minority students and their families. For that matter, its not helpful for most white families.

      That said, club or school team sports are a good thing for students who can participate. They teach kids that persistence pays off, that practice is important and that by working with others, you can achieve more than you can by yourself. But that you have to take those lessons into the classroom because 99.9% of the opportunities to have a career are in something other than sports and of those, 90% require a solid education. Less than 0.5% of all high school athletes will have an opportunity to even get hired in professional sports and of those, many will wash out in the first couple of years.

      However, if you have pretty good talent and work very hard, there's a chance of getting a college scholarship. If you can do that, you've earned a free education, but even if you're in an NCAA division 1 college, your chances of making it to the pros are slim, so you should study something that will be your career, assuming that you will not make it to the pros even if you think you are the best guy on the field.

    6. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      We Americans value the football hero, the entertainer, and the bling and superficial.

      Well, those folks seem to make a lot of money, and they also seem to be constantly doped, coked, wiggin' and wasted to their eyeballs.

      So why not get kids on to the right career path to success early, and start 'mething them up in grade school?

      Bartender: "Another glass of hyper-oxygenated blood and a shot of EPO for you, Mr. Armstrong, sir?"

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    7. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But as an Actual Asian Person, there's more to this story than that. Hang around Canal St. in New York sometime. Not all Asians have that hard grit academic drive.

      What happened was, a lot of Asian American families are first or second generation immigrants who were already successful and higher status. So they had the strict Asian upbringing AND the tools to enable the hard work ethic.

      It's a complicated matter, and I think you're grossly simplifying the scenario here.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    8. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by colinrichardday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I were the DEA or persons of similar persuasion, I would be shaking in my combat boots.

      What's in it for the DEA to actually end the use of illegal drugs?

    9. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      I notice you left off "involved parents" from you "we do bad things" list. The #1 predictor of good school performance is parents. I'm not going to mention the elephant in the room, just like you.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    10. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The only intelligent thing about your reply is your decision to post it as Anonymous Coward. You have no specific knowledge that supports your worthless claims, have probably never traveled extensively in Asia, and are not well versed in Asiatic cultures or educational practices.

      Asia, the content encompassing many diverse, non-Oriental cultural groups, has no unified or enhanced characteristics of diligence or excellence over the rest of the world.

      My wife is Turkish, which is a country within the continent you mentioned, and many of her family have emigrated to the US after excellent secular graduate level educations in the Middle East to complete their post-grads. Her father was an entrepreneur, a taxi driver, extortionist, and kidnapper, and has been barred from re-entry to the US, but she's earned several degrees and has a great job doing something she loves. I'm Japanese, but was from a poor fishing village with few educational opportunities and a dialect that is unintelligible to the mainland. My family builds boats and houses and fishes to stay alive, and some were out to sea trying to earn a living when the tsunami hit. They value hard work, whether it is applied to sports or academics. This is the only defining characteristic of our mutual successes, not the continent on which our mothers' waters broke.

      Your response was lazy, poorly informed, and stereotypical. Maybe you didn't learn not to speak in your 'American' (How ethnocentric. May I assume United States native?) school by your family when you didn't have anything to say. Maybe what separates your concept of what makes someone an Asian in your mind from Westerners is that they don't try to look smarter than they are and thus never risk looking stupid.

      Remember, if you want to do better, ganbatte!

    11. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Have you ever done Peace Corps?

      The reason why Asian-Americans excel is because wealthy Asians emigrate to America. If you actually go to Asia, you'll find that it's just like the U.S.: rich kids go to good schools and poor kids go to bad schools. The only difference is that cheating's a-ok beacuse it lets the school, the administrators, and the students all gain face.

    12. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by swalve · · Score: 2

      So, legalize every drug in existence.

      I'm mostly libertarian, but I fear a society where this would occur. It would look like the fucking Walking Dead. Have you been in communities with drug problems? It is terrifying.

    13. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by Kurrel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      By the same logic, every humanitarian foundation also has a vested interest in preserving human suffering and disease. Every mechanic, doctor, technician, developer, or whatever profession that is paid to fix things should be intentionally not fixing them to maximize profit, yes?

      So why do any of these things work?

    14. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by pspahn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All it takes is working in education for even a brief time to understand that the majority of administrators should not be doing the job they are getting paid for.

      It's not so much that they are bad at their job, it's that their job is counter-productive.

      They dictate how classrooms should be run when they themselves have either never taught or haven't taught in 15 years. They are often completely out of touch with today's children.

      As a result, we end up with classrooms that are dictated to be run a specific way that simply DOES NOT WORK. Teachers get reprimands for straying from administrative policy even though it provides a better education for the kids.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    15. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 2

      Simple. People are not the one dimensional profit maximizers that classical economics- which is where that idea comes from- claims they are.

    16. Re:We've Given Up on Poor Kids by shadowofwind · · Score: 2

      From what I've seen there are significant cultural differences among Asians also. My neighborhood is almost 100% Vietnamese, mostly people who came over after the war. Academics are valued, but not anything like it is in Chinese neighborhoods populated largely by people who came here for graduate school.

      I know this is racist, so I'll get flamed for this for sure if anyone even reads it, but I also think genetic differences account for some differences between Asians and white Americans. From infancy my kids, who are half white, behave differently from their Chinese peers, even though they speak Chinese and are raised very similarly. I think most of these differences have to do with the specific genes of my family, and won't hold true across populations in general, but I expect some of it will a little bit. I think part of the reason parenting methods are different is they are adapted to the children, not the other way around. Its true that if you take a person of any race and put them in another culture, they will adapt that culture. I used to have a cat that would meow at cars and crap in the lawn, because it was raised with dogs. But that doesn't mean that the cultures of large populations don't drift in the directions they do partially for genetic reasons, even if those reasons are small compared to other factors.

  2. Ever notice the drug commercials... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ever notice the drug commercials? None of them address the underlying cause -- they address only the symptoms.

    * Your dick doesn't work: Don't get exercise that could actually improve your blood flow. Don't eat right. Take this ridiculously expensive pill. Notice the age of the men on these commercials has dropped from what once was older mean, now the guys could be in their late 30s. WTF?

    * Your cholesterol is thru the roof: Don't cut out fatty foods and fried goodies. Don't get exercise. Take this pill that has more side effects that the black plague.

    It's all about the money -- and it should be illegal. America hates drugs? Start with big pharma. They kill more people every year than illegal drugs.

    If I had my way, I would dictate all pharm companies become non-profit. All money goes to R&D and moderate salaries. Then and only then would the research perhaps be about people and not profit.

    These commercials now about one kid in 110 being autistic. No fracking way is this possible. ADHD? Same thing. When I was a kid back in the 70s, kids were hyper. It's normal. Now? Drug the poor things until they comply. People think a pill can solve anything. Want to lose weight? Take in fewer calories than you burn. Make sure those calories are good calories like fruits, veggies, lean meats like fish, turkey. Actually exercise. Almost no one was fat when I was a kid. Fat people were rare. Now? Almost 40% of Americans are considered fat. Why? The crap that passes for our food should be illegal. We need to become like Europe and ban all the junk. When it's about profit, the people get screwed. What's next? Soylent Green?

    1. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by ratbag · · Score: 2

      Start with big pharma. They kill more people every year than illegal drugs.

      1. Citation required.
      2. Per user, or in absolute terms?

      Not that I disagree with your general point about commercials - I live in a country where this sort of advertising is forbidden.

    2. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      As no one seems to believe these numbers are real, I'll quote the source: The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) Vol 284, No 4, July 26th 2000, authored by Dr Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health.

      That study, which is twelve years old -- and drug deaths have risen considerably since then -- documents 106,000 deaths per year from the "adverse effects" of FDA-approved prescription medications.

      To reach this number from outbreaks of violent shootings, you'd have to see an Aurora Colorado Batman movie massacre take place every HOUR of every day, 365 days a year.

    3. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by OldSport · · Score: 2

      Address the root causes, and the market for the drugs evaporates. The last thing drug companies want is for you to take responsibility for your lifestyle and actually be healthy.

    4. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by khallow · · Score: 2

      We need to become like Europe and ban all the junk.

      Why? Because we have a bunch of fat people? Because somewhere, there's someone making money off someone's headache? Don't you need to have a reason first? LOL.

      When it's about profit, the people get screwed.

      And when it's about flimsy pretexts for running other peoples' lives, the people get screwed.

    5. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by ratbag · · Score: 2

      Thanks, reading the paper now. Issues that occur to me so far:

      It's mainly for hospitalized patients - how many of these would have died whatever happened? It's hard to tell from the paper directly, since it cites other estimates from around ten years before, and I haven't been able to read them yet.

      How many people's lives have been saved or improved by "big pharma"? Same question for illegal drugs and Aurora-style massacres. Yes, it's silly question, but your equivalence between "big pharma" and illegal drugs is why we're having this little debate.

      The number of deaths due to adverse effects forms less than half of the deaths from iatrogenic causes - is the problem really "Big Medical system as a whole"? I know a lot of people are happy to posit a conspiracy by the drug companies but are reluctant to blame medical professionals for whatever reason. Recognition that human errors occur, and learning from those errors, is to my mind more important than belittling the work that everyone involved in humand and animal health is doing.

      Yup, I'm in favour of pharmaceutical drugs. I've had cause to take several of them in the past, mostly for mental issues (OCD, anxiety, etc.), but also migraines. In all cases except one (a doctor nearing retirement and seemingly a bit out of touch and too eager to hand out the happy pills), the medical professionals have been very reluctant to prescribe unnecessarily, recommending therapies such as CBT before drugs, waiting to see how those therapies progressed and giving me assistance in eventually terminating treatment when its work was done (ie tapering programs for anti-depressants). YMMV, since I'm a happy customer of the NHS and I suspect you don't have a similar system.

    6. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by udachny · · Score: 2

      It's all about the money -- and it should be illegal.

      - no, what should be illegal is government telling people what they can or cannot advertise, what drugs they can or cannot take.

      It should be illegal for government to impose patents and copyrights, that's what should be illegal.

      It should be illegal for government to set up agencies like FDA, which destroy competition and cause higher prices for all.

      It is all always about productivity, which means money. It's all business and only business is interested in satisfying the customers. But once government is involved, the incentives get screwed up. With crazy fees and other costs added by the FDA it becomes unprofitable to research and develop drugs and procedures and methods for less known diseases, but it becomes very profitable NOT to research, but instead to milk the patent protection racket.

      Take the same pill, modify it slightly from 'version to version' and then sell it as the next best drug in the world while being protected from any competition by the all powerful government.

      Listen, I personally want the most research in biology and all the medical aspects of life and I know that people are inventive and that the best driver and motivator is a personal need - an itch to scratch.

      That's exactly why I don't want any government to stand in between me and anybody in the WORLD coming up with ideas and trying to sell them to me. In the age of the Internet I (and most others) have enough access to information to make up our mind. We are all going to die at some point, so let us live our own fucking lives the way we fucking want, and if that means getting high on crack cocaine or on Zoloft, it should be our choice.

      Saying that a business must become a 'non-profit' means saying that you want UNLIMITED TAXATION or borrowing or printing (inflation) to be spent on that nonsense, because to be 'non-profit' means exactly that. Once you regulate somebody to that point, that they can't make a profit by offering the best product to the market, they'll become part of government, and their salaries and bonuses will keep creeping up, as the efficiencies and productivity falls through the floor.

      Sure sure, they'll invent SOMETHING, there is no question about it. F22 exists after all. But people don't actually need F22. They need something they WANT TO BUY and that's CHEAP, and that's not what governments do, and it's not what government structure encourages.

      All money goes to R&D and moderate salaries.

      - that's the most IMMORAL thing that you could do.

      Of-course the government is already doing an immoral thing with patents, with FDA, etc.

      Telling somebody, who wants to scratch his own itch, and who works in a garage: you can't do what you are doing, you can't attempt and alleviate some condition against some health issue, you can't do that for profit.

      That's absolutely immoral. It's absolutely anti-human.

      The most moral system that exists to create and distribute what people need is free market capitalism. That's the reason that the last 200 years have been so prosperous on this planet.

      You see, governments have always wanted more power and they always existed, they always could DICTATE their ideology. But governments never invented Zoloft or computer screens or whatever. It's not what they do, it's not their purpose, it's not possible to do with their incentive structures and it goes against humans, against individual freedom to try and make one's life better on his own.

      Of-course in other aspects of life you seem to be getting your wish. Collectivism is not dead unfortunately, you'd think people would learn over the last 100 years.

      WWI, WWII, cold war, communism, fascism. It's all collectivism. Apparently people aren't learning from history and they will repeat it and on a bigger scale.

    7. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      If you're going to reference something, at least give us farking title

      how about a link to a PDF

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I am amazed at how many people despise profit.

      If people weren't going broke or indeed dying right now because big pharma wants to maximize its profit, your amazment would be understandable. Instead, it proves your moral bankruptcy. There's nothing wrong with individuals making a living providing health care or inventing medications, but there's no reason why anyone should die so that some already-rich dickwads can get richer. This is why if you truly want maximum health care at the best possible price it is necessary to take the profit motive out of medicine. Most of the new drugs you're being sold aren't actually any better than the old drugs, and many of them are worse, and have worse side effects, but the bar for bringing a new form of an old drug to market is much lower than approval for a new drug — because big pharma writes the FDA regulations, which are then rubberstamped. They do, after all, pay the piper more than enough to call the tune.

      Get rid of profit and you have no way of knowing what people want and how to allocate resources to meet it.

      When it comes to medicine, or for that matter education, it's not about what people want but about what they need. We can argue about that all day long but it's clear that many people aren't getting what any of us think they need, let alone their own ideas. Your suggestion that without profit there's no idea what people want is preposterous anyhow, because desire exists with or without a monetary system.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Informative

      He can't. He's quoting a website verbatim.

      However, the title of the JAMA article is "Is US Health Really the Best in the World?", and it's available here, though apart from the statement (accompanied by another citation that I'm not ambitious enough to track down) of the number of deaths, it says little else relevant to this story.

      However, I used to work with those adverse effect records, and citing them directly is incredibly misleading. The 106,000 deaths is only a tiny percentage (0.06%) of the 170,000,000 Americans on prescription medications (rough mental estimate of 48%), and it's inflated. The way adverse effects are recorded, any drug that could possibly be the cause of death is recorded as having definitely caused it. If an epilepsy drug causes a side effect, and the patient takes acetaminophen for it but overdoses and dies, the epilepsy drug is considered to be at fault, because the death was a result of its adverse effect.

      The reason for this odd system of inflated numbers is that its purpose. The system was designed to inform doctors and researchers of what could happen as a result of a drug's use, including any previously-unknown interactions. By recording that an epilepsy drug, when taken with acetaminophen, could cause overdose symptoms, researchers could be pointed to an interaction between the two medications.

      For direct deaths, the percentage (original research, no source) is closer to 0.001%, and the majority of these (to the point where I couldn't really differentiate "all") were where the prescription triggered an allergic reaction that wasn't already known (or at least recorded in the doctors' notes).

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    10. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

      Libertarians are incredibly naive.

      The reason we have an FDA isn't that evil Collectivists under Fascist/Communist influence decided to Destroy Freedom (tm). It's that conmen abused freedom by pissing in a bottle, calling it an anti-cancer wonder drug, and charging desperate people their life savings for it. When the modern FDA was created (1906) no Fascists existed anywhere, and Communists did not have any power in any government whatsoever. The President who signed the bill was Teddy Roosevelt. The modern FDA does make it harder for you to sell drugs, but that's because it insists you have proof your drug works. In fact the FDA actually helps people who want to sell drugs that work. Prior to the FDA the only way to get an average American to buy a drug was convince him that if he didn't one of his loved ones would die. Drugs like vaccines were unsellable because nobody would have believed their benefits outweighed the sticker price, much less potential side effects.

      In other words you're claiming to be pro-free market, but ignoring the fact that a defining feature of a free market is that everyone has to know what's going on. If you don't know that the guy you're trading $4 for a bushel of wheat will actually come up with the bushel of wheat you ain't gonna trade him your $4, and no market (free or otherwise) exists. Prior to the creation of the FDA nobody but drug-sellers could actually know what their drugs did, and even many drug-sellers had not bothered to test their drugs, so no free market existed. Which meant that without the FDA there is no free market in pharmaceuticals. You can argue the FDA is too slow to approve drugs, which hinders the free market, but you cannot argue that a free market for pharmaceuticals would exist in the United States without something very much like the FDA doing things very much like the FDA does.

      The whole collectivism rubric is ridiculous. A Collectivist is (by definition) someone who puts the interests of some group above his personal interests, which is a pretty fair description of the entire freakin human race. For example, Randists divide the world into groups (Moochers, Looters and Galt's Disciples) and insist anyone who does not put the interests of Galt's Disciples above those of the other groups is evil.

    11. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by sjames · · Score: 2

      Actually no, he's not assuming resources cost nothing. He's assuming that a drug which costs 3 cents to make could sell for a dollar rather than 100 dollars, especially when the same company DOES sell it for a dollar in other markets.

      As for the rest, you're saying that if not for the obscene profits on pharmaceuticals we might mistakenly think people want more frequent migraines, floppy penises, poor sleep, and uglier more yellowed nails?

    12. Re:Ever notice the drug commercials... by airdweller · · Score: 2

      "I can write a 50 page essay on this..."
      You can write essays all right. Too bad the writing and logic aren't coherent.

      PS. Most of the flaming "capitalists", "libertarians" and the like that I've met were born in the USSR. Oh, the irony...

  3. Hyperbolic much? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    While I'd be hard pressed to say nice things about the cheap seats of US educational policy, isn't it a trifle hyperbolic to equate ritalin and friends with the genuinely hardcore pharmaceuticals you'd find in a '60s psych ward(or even a present-day one, antipsychotics are not a pleasant bunch, on the whole)?

    It certainly seems like a bad plan to make psychiatrists(or GPs and nurses forced to fill in because real psychiatrists are expensive) the first-line people for problems that often have social fixes; but are the common psychostimulants really serious enough to fill the role of terrifying bogey-man here?

    1. Re:Hyperbolic much? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      No, because a significant number of 'those' drugs are the same drugs that Nurse Ratchet was dispensing, or, at best, their slightly better behaved cousins. It's not just amphetamines (and they're pretty potent in and of themselves). It's haloperidol (Haldol), respiridone (Respirdol), Quetiapine (Seroquel) - all somewhat improved versions of Chlorpromazine (Thorazine).

      Drugs that I think twice of giving in the ER with an acutely psychotic person.

      This stuff goes well beyond antidepressants and benzos. It is more than a little concerning.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  4. Its not society's problem by TodoRojo · · Score: 2

    The problem is that "society" never can and never will replace the nuclear family. Until we realize this and start supporting the traditional family children don't have a chance.

  5. THX1138 by kurt555gs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Really! They made a movie about this.

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
  6. Slashdotters now the target! by openfrog · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have mod points, but since you are well on your way to +5 insightful, I just want to add some data to this. I am interested in this topic, and I have noticed a series of articles in influential venues, like the Economist, the New York Times, etc. beginning a couple of years ago. They all have a common point: they are reporting some kind of controversial news, like here "doctors are prescribing drugs to poor kids to help them, is this good or bad", while the underlying message is unquestioned, that is, whether those drugs work at all. The underlying message is that they do and that would go without saying.

    In the case of the Economist article, unfortunately for the drug companies and the PR firms probably doing this work for them, the reader comments were devastating for this underlying assumption. This article was asking whether it was fair that some students could have recourse to "brain enhancing drugs" bought illegally (like the one used in the treatment of ADHD). Dozens of people having taken drugs as students in the hope of helping at exam times reported their horror stories, and shredded every point of the article.

    Big pharrna is financing PhD students in prestigious universities around the world, for work on the use of drugs, not for therapeutic purposes, but for enhancing the brain. This is something that I have myself confirmed meeting one of them.

    Now it is the Slashdot crowd being targeted. According to the comments I am reading already, I would say this is another mistake of theirs...

  7. Re:Towards a Post-Scarcity New York State of Mind by fermion · · Score: 2
    You now, all arguments are based on often unstated assumption. The three assumptions for home schooling are that it is inherently preferable for a parent to stay home to be there for the kids if they are needed, and that school as it is now is a negative influence the children who parents want to bring them up in a morale world. The third, and more controversial, is that 12 years of schooling is overkill.

    On the parent at home thing, I would argue this is already possible, though it does not happen because there is limited economic value. We no longer mend clothes, cook all meals from scratch, wash clothes by hand, or plant gardens to provide our families fresh nutrition. When I was a kid these things were mostly done, and were done with parents working. But even so, in this free market society people still want to stay home and take care of the house that takes care of itself, to watch soap operas and sports. But they need an excuse to do so. Home schooling is that excuse. And I have no problem with this. I just don't know how much the taxpayer should pay. If parent choose to keep the kids home, then cut expenses of the school proportionately and give back the money to the people who pay the taxes. To those that say we should pay parents to teach the kids, i say what is next, home nursing and pay a parent for putting on band aid, or giving an aspirin.

    That said, I think we as a society can afford to make it possible for a parent to stay home. i know families where only one person works, the other parent uses the time to bring production in the house, or does work from home, in order to make ends meet. It can be done if one is willing to sacrifice. We have programs, such as the child tax credit, which makes it possible. Universal free health care for children will also make this more possible. I know parents who pay $500 a month for health insurance. So there are things we can do, that will help all families, not just those that want special treatment.

    Second is the perceived immorality of public school. There is nothing that can be done about that. You either buy into the belief that it is ok for people you know to have differing beliefs or you don't. You either buy into the belief that a child is responsible for his or her actions, and if they get into a fight or do drugs that is a reflection on you and your child, or you believe that you have no control and have to do what everyone else is doing. You either believe that conflict resolution is best developed in a hotbed, or you don't. In any case alternatives already exists. One can home school, but, as stated, tax payers can't really pay for your private education. One can go to a private school, and most families can afford it if they want. A neighbor sent all three kids to private school a a very limited budget. Or a family can move elsewhere. Government cannot pander to every special interest, and families have to take some responsibility.

    Third is the quality of education. Passing an SAT does not mean quality education. Not passing a state test does not mean a bad education. Again, this is mostly buy in. For instance, many high schools have an international staff which I think we all agree can help in college and work where top employers are now looking for the best employees, not the best americans. many high schools have advanced technological resources, above what many families can afford, and knowing how to use a computer to work, not just play games, is useful. Most parents are not going to have advance study in all subjects, so are not to be able to expose the children to specific questions that come from such study, i.e. teach instead of just show some movies. And I am not talking about the best schools. I am talking about even the well funded below average high schools. This again is buy in. Either deep learning and critical thinking is valuable or it is not. What I will say is that there are not very many manufacturing jobs, sales jobs do not pay as much as they used to, and paper pushing

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    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  8. "All drugs are sedatives" by DL117 · · Score: 2

    There is an interesting misconception that all psychotropic drugs have sedative effects or make the user more submissive. That's not true. Antipsychotics are sedating, the older typical antipsychotics more so than the newer ones. However, stimulants are the opposite of sedatives. Antidepressants aren't sedatives. Most psychotropic drugs aren't sedatives.

  9. You're looking at the very rich by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    most Asian parents work. A lot. 6, 13 hour days is standard fare. I always here Asian parents trotted out as the example, but fact is there's no way to work those kind of hours and raise a kid. How do the majority do it? They let the government, specifically school teachers, who take a MUCH more active role in the students' life.

    As for Asians valuing eduction, that's because in most places it's a dog eat dog hell hole due to their surplus population (that's surplus, no over, population. Over pop means there's not enough, surplus means there's enough to abuse). Americans value those things not because of a weak culture but because we're wealthy enough we can.
    Put another way, I'm sick and tired of this weird cult of frantic, desperate, dog-eat dog work. The puritan work ethic is a scam that the Romney's of the world use to make excuses for their grotesque wealth.

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  10. Re:Workers revolution is the only solution! by i286NiNJA · · Score: 2

    Except the stimulants they give kids are bad for them, personality changes, repetitive behavior, loss of creativity, abnormal development of normal executive function skills.

  11. Re:carcass by iamhassi · · Score: 2

    We can make the kids parents pay for pills to almost fix the problem.

    Instead of actually fixing the problems which might be expensive and take a long time.

    Cheap easy short term gains are awesome! Lets build an entire country like that!

    I think you missed the description: "....said Dr. Ramesh Raghavan, an expert in prescription drug use among low-income children."

    low-income probably meaning welfare section 8 food stamps. The parents can't afford a roof for themselves or their children, much less pills.

    I say, whatever works. If pills make these kids stay in school and out of jail off welfare and section 8 there's nothing wrong with that, and the pills are probably cheaper.

    Positives:
    1) More productive life for individual
    2) Tax pay less

    Negatives:
    1) Possible pill addict for life

    Positives outweigh negatives. If there is a magic be-more-successful pill, sign me up too.

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