ARM-Based Chromebooks Ready To Battle Windows 8, Tablets

Nerval's Lobster writes "Google is whipping the proverbial curtain back from its new Chromebook, which will retail for $249 and up. The Samsung-built device weighs 2.5 pounds and features an 11.6-inch screen (with 1366 x 768 resolution), backed by a 1.75GHz Samsung Exynos 5 Dual Processor. Google claims it will boot up in under 10 seconds and, depending on usage, last for 6.5 hours on one battery charge. From a product perspective, Chrome OS and its associated hardware found itself fighting a two-front battle: the first against Windows PCs and Macs, both of which could claim more robust hardware for a similar cost to the old Chromebooks (which started at $449), and the second against tablets, which offered the same degree of flexibility and connectivity for a cheaper sticker-price. By setting the cost of the new Chromebook at $249, Google continues that pricing skirmish on more favorable terms." CNET got a bit of hands-on time with the new kid, and gives it a lukewarm but positive reception.

Comments

Why?

[AbhiTheOne]

Why google is maintaining 2 different OSes? Microsoft has gone in different direction to make same OS for its phone, Table and PC.

Re:Why?

[Slazer]

Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 are actually 2 different OSes. Just my little non-harmful nit pick.

Re:Why?

[ThatsMyNick]

Microsoft does not have the same OS on phone and PC. They have similar names and similar interface, but no where to close to being the same OS. I cannot run a application designed for PC on the phone (the viceversa may be possible (well, I hope it is)). I would rather see incompatible OSes have different names and purpose build UIs.

Re:Why?

[AbhiTheOne]

with Win8 and WP8, they both have the same kernel, so for e.g. any device drivers written for one can be used on the other directly without any changes. Although I agree it's not exactly the same OS, but the most of major OS component are same with special components as per different uses.

Re:Why?

[DragonWriter]

Why google is maintaining 2 different OSes?

Android was Google's short-term response to the threat that a dominant mobile OS vendor would emerge that would use market power in that OS market in a way which would prevent Google from being able to profit from their online services (similar to how investment in Firefox was the short-term response in the web browser space.) Chrome OS is a piece of the longer-horizon, broader (e.g., not limited to "mobile") part of the response (much as the Chrome browser was in the browser space); I say "a piece of" because Google's announced a number of times that their long-term plan is to converge Android with Chrome OS in the long term.

Microsoft has gone in different direction to make same OS for its phone, Table and PC.

No, Microsoft has three similar-but-different operating systems with partially overlapping functionality and confusingly similar names (Windows 8, Windows 8 RT, and Windows Phone 8) for, respectively, traditional PCs and some (i.e., x86-based) tablets, other (i.e., ARM-based) tablets, and phones.

Re:Why?

[LoRdTAW]

I wish Microsoft realized that as well.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google didn't invest in Firefox. They paid Firefox for funneling searches to them.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

If Firefox were not a non-profit entity, it might have been cheaper for them to invest in, rather than pay them for services. What they did it also a form of short-term investment (they pretty much were the only source of money)

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft does not have the same OS on phone and PC. They have similar names and similar interface, but no where to close to being the same OS. I cannot run a application designed for PC on the phone (the viceversa may be possible (well, I hope it is)). I would rather see incompatible OSes have different names and purpose build UIs.

But you can run apps bought in the windows store on phone, tablet and PC

Re:Why?

[DragonWriter]

Google didn't invest in Firefox. They paid Firefox for funneling searches to them.

From most accounts I've seen, their willingness to pay the price they did to do that was driven both by the value of the search traffic directly funneled and by the value to them of Firefox disrupting IEs desktop browser dominance.

Re:Why?

[ThatsMyNick]

So Microsoft is allowing Phone apps to run on PC. So my hope (the one I referred to in my post), is infact true.

Re:Why?

[composer777]

You are confusing the end product (build) with the source code. Linux is still linux whether or not it is running on a refrigerator, router, or a workstation. The same goes for versions of Windows that are built for different hardware. Yes, they are different builds, but run on the same source kernel.

Re:Why?

[hairyfeet]

I have a better question...why would anybody want to pay $250+ for a thin client when you can get a dual core Atom and run a full OS for the same money, or spend a little more and get a Bobcat with a full OS and 1080P over HDMI?

The only real niche I can see for this is schools, no OS means no admins and no hassles, but for everybody else? There is still too much of the country where Internet is spotty and without a net connection this thing is pretty much useless.

If all you want is web surfing your better off with a Kindle or Galaxy tab, if you need a really portable laptop you're better off with a netbook so you can run any OS you want...I really just don't see much of a market for these things. Nice to see they have gotten a little more sane with the pricing, the first Chromebooks were over $500 which was just nuts. But you can buy a netbook for $250-$350 and have more space, a better CPU, and more options...maybe if they had these in the $100-$150 range I could see it, but with tablets running ICS at less than $200 I just don't see where a thin client laptop fits in the landscape.

Re:Why?

[ThatsMyNick]

Interesting, so would you claim Chromebook and Android run the same OS. I dont think GGP would, I would prefer not to.

Re:Why?

[hoth]

No. Win Phone 8 apps run only on phones. WinRT apps run only on tablets and PCs.

Re:Why?

[ThatsMyNick]

Ah, in that case Chromebook and Android run the same OS too (the kernel is called Linux, you might have heard of it).

Re:Why?

[ifiwereasculptor]

If all you want is web surfing your better off with a Kindle or Galaxy tab

Not if you're counting on using Google Docs. Typing on a tablet sucks unless you have a physical keyboard (which drives the price quite a bit higher), and a touchscreen for editing documents while sitting on a table is very uncomfortable. Also, Chromebooks have screens quite a big bigger than the 7" tablets on its price range. I could easily see myself using one of those if I had to go mobile and knew I'd always have a broadband connection available, though (as you say) I'd probably rather get an AMD C-60 and secure my offlinability as well.

Re:Why?

[shutdown -p now]

No, GP is simply wrong.

Re:Why?

[rahvin112]

Mod Parent up. They share the same kernel. Thats like saying Fedora isn't Linux because it using the Redhat user space instead of the the Debian User space. They both have the Linux kernel, they are both Linux though variants of Linux user spaces. Windows8 and windows Phone 8 both have the same kernel with varying degrees of user space tools and glue bits.

It frankly doesn't make sense to say they aren't the same when they share a Kernel.

Re:Why?

[Lennie]

A lot of people outside Google believe that ChromeOS was actually their ultimate goal, but they needed to release a smartphone OS before it was ready.

Re:Why?

[hairyfeet]

But nobody is talking about the elephant in the room that seriously threatens Google's mobile plans...the ISPs and network carriers. The days of unlimited Internet are quickly drawing to a close and the carriers seem to get nastier with data plans and prices every time you turn around.

For Chrome OS this is practically a death sentence as who is gonna want an OS that is constantly blowing through bandwidth and is worthless without it when their ISPs are being stingy? And as an analyst I saw today said when it comes to smartphones "Google makes their bread and butter from ads but I don't click on an ad with my smartphone unless by accident because that bandwidth costs me money"

So I just don't see how Google's plans work out long term unless they want to get into the ISP and carrier business, because without bandwidth Google is screwed and the ISPs and carriers have no desire to give more bandwidth without price hikes. This is especially bad with Chrome OS as its worthless without bandwidth and why would you pay the same price as a netbook for something that is gonna cost you MORE money on top of that when you hit your cap?

Re:Why?

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

It frankly doesn't make sense to say they aren't the same when they share a Kernel.

Indeed. Kind of like Chromebook and Android sharing a linux kernel?

Re:Why?

[Eskarel]

Well, let's see.

They have exactly the same kernel for one thing. Then there's the fact that the metro UI component of Windows 8 and the Windows 8 phone metro component are, well exactly the same code. And of course any Windows RT app you write will run on Windows 8 and Windows 8 Phone(and the tablets for that matter). Oh and of course it's all the same code base, but aside from that they're entire different of course.

Win Phone 7 and Windows 7 were totally different, and originally Microsoft was planning on going that way with Windows Phone 8, but they didn't. Sure pure Windows 8 has a whole bunch of additional stuff in it that Windows Phone 8 doesn't, but the bit they share is the same god damned code.

Re:Why?

[Eskarel]

Windows 8 is essentially Windows 7 with some tweaks and the metro(I know it's not called that anymore) component added on. Windows 8 RT is the metro component without the Windows 7 bit built for ARM, Windows 8 Phone is Windows 8 RT. The components they share are the same code, software you write with the new Metro UIs will run on every single device.

Re:Why?

[TheGratefulNet]

yup, as isp's get greedier, they will charge you for what they once gave away. 'the first one's free' and all that.

wan connectivity is NOT an assumed thing, not for a lot of people and not to the point where you can really count on it. its a luxury but who really *counts* on it while being mobile?

the cloud is a good idea when YOU control the cloud. its not so great when you depend on it and someone else controls it.

so, bandwidth costs and limits plus the disappearance of 'cloud resources' makes the whole thing pretty sketchy to bet on.

I think I'll keep my real computer with real local storage. thanks, though!

Re:Why?

[Locutus]

I thought Windows was ported to ARM and all Windows 8 devices were now based on that ARM port( not the x86 version so much ). That is Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 RT( tablets) both running the Windows 8 for ARM OS but with modified UI for the screen size and obvious APIs differences for what the device has/needs/uses like making phone calls. The fact that the Windows Phone 8 phones now have multi core support and added memory capabilities lead me to believe this was due to using the x86 ported Windows system to ARM.

So Windows Phone 8 is still a Windows CE based OS?

LoB

Re:Why?

[adolf]

editing documents while sitting on a table is very uncomfortable

I generally find that sitting on a table is very uncomfortable whether or not I am editing documents.

Re:Why?

[hairyfeet]

But there is one CRUCIAL difference, in that since nearly all software on Linux has source available all it takes is one guy to compile it for whatever arch and then everybody has it, whereas the majority of Windows software is closed source and therefor you simply can't run any of that X86 software unless the owner of said software recompiles (and most likely charges you again) for that arch.

This is why Windows on ARM is stupid. With Apple people use Apple software on Apple devices so as long as Apple supports their own stuff? you're good to go. Other than MS Office frankly nobody uses much of anything made by MSFT on Windows so they are just SOL when it comes to apps. Considering the momentum that Google and Apple have, along with them burning mobile devs twice, first with WinCE and then with WinPhone 7? Frankly I wouldn't touch a Win 8 ARM device for at least a year to see if the ecosystem builds around it or if the devs will just ignore it like most did WinPhone.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Android/chrome book are not running Linux. It's a fork.

Re:Why?

[Spaseboy]

I am not a Microsoft fan (search my comments) but I am a HUGE Metro/Modern/RT/Windows Store App fan. I agree with MS that the real-world metaphors shoehorned onto computers have limited their usefulness and I LOVE the total embrace of Fitt's Law.

Windows app developers choosing closed source doesn't have anything to do with Microsoft any more than Mac app developers choosing closed source has to do with Apple. Both Microsoft and Apple contribute a large amount to open source projects themselves.

Windows RT runs on x86 and x64 in addition to ARM. ARM has everything to do with energy consumption. Intel is just not getting there with x86/x64. The future is battery powered and frankly, Intel needs the competition of ARM to get them moving even if ARM can't touch raw performance of x86/x64.

If people didn't care so deeply about MS Office there wouldn't be an OpenOffice or an iWork. It's also asinine to insist that only Office keeps people on Windows. Intensely extensive hardware support, Exchange, Active Directory and many other things that other operating systems don't even try to compete with are also MASSIVE factors.

Windows on ARM already had an "ecosystem" it's called Windows. USB has delivered on its promise. Bluetooth has delivered on its promise. This is not Android, iOS world where connecting anything other than a memory card is both frowned upon and difficult/expensive.

I will give you that Windows Phone 7 was a failure by all accounts. I have an HTC Titan that I love and I am crushed that it will not receive proper system software support but I understand why Microsoft did it. There is a level of hardware features that every WP device must have, in both WP7 and 8. This lets Microsoft declare things like taking pictures on Windows Phone is both faster and easier and not mean "just the Nexus Windows Phone". Live tiles blow notifications and most widgets away in my opinion and you can search my posts on XDA under Dragon_76 to see how long and extensively I have used Android (I had a G1 and left Android Phones at Moto Atrix).

Windows 8 is going to make everyone ask why Apple didn't do the same thing with Mac OS/iOS.

Re:Why?

[Spaseboy]

Actually, we don't know the answer to that yet either way. In the end it will most likely be up to what a developer does and if MS links the stores together.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/20/windows-phone-8-and-windows-8-share-lots-of-code-nt-kernel/

Re:Why?

[epSos-de]

Also the weight in pounds sucks. They seen to target Americans who thing smaller weight numbers are actually lighter, even if tricky standards are used. 2.5 pounds is ca. 1134 gram. So it is as heavy as 1 liter of milk and 1 standard Russian shot of vodka. They should have said it is 1.1 Kg instead.

Re:Why?

[hresult]

Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 share the same kernel components (they call it Shared Windows Core). That really is internal part of the OS usually inaccessible directly to 3rd party developers, who instead use various user-mode APIs built on top (such as Win32, WinRT etc). The same is curiously with Android and ChromeOS - both share the Linux kernel with different user-mode APIs.

Re:Why?

[hresult]

Linux is actually a kernel. The OS is called GNU Linux with various flavors called distributives (such as Ubuntu).

Re:Why?

[Anarchduke]

lol, isn't that a little light for a standard Russian vodka shot?

Re:Why?

[Locutus]

right but don't lots of the same ISV APIs shared across phone, tablet and desktop now that Microsoft is pushing the UI formerly known as Metro, across all devices? That would mean the core OS is the same and so are a somewhat large chunk of the developer APIs and all that which is there to support it.

I'm thinking less like Android which really does use mostly the kernel and everything else is in the Dalvik JVM, and more like Meego. ie Android has little in common with desktop GNU/Linux while Meego had lots more in common.

If it really is just a Windows kernel/core and the APIs are so very different between the devices, I don't see why Microsoft would be pushing developers to Metro apps. Sure desktop Windows has all the included Win32 old stuff but we're talking the cross device stuff here.

LoB

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

When did you last look? The delta between linus' tree and android keeps gettings smaller or at least staying the same. That's not really the definition of fork...

Re:Why?

[gl4ss]

MS is maintaining 3 different os's then.

or more properly put 6, since the word was maintaining, windows 8 rt, windows 8 x86, windows phone 8, windows phone 7.x and windows 7(it's not discontinued/dead).. and I'm not totally sure but I believe they maintain windows CE for embedded use too, so that's 6.

or more aptly put 7, since xbox OS should count as one too.
not to mention if you count Surface(the old one, that means the table) too as a separate os.

just because you unify some branding doesn't make them the same OS.

Re:Why?

[gl4ss]

we know the same app won't run as it is on both.
you can share some code and some of the ui definitions.

so it's more like saying that you can run the same app on iOS, android and BeOS - you sure can if the developer does porting and the developer can share a lot of code between the 3 platforms.

Re:Why?

[loyukfai]

I believe Microsoft, at least the ones building WinRT and the management, do realize the differences.

But do they want the customer to realize it as well? You know, "not compatible with x86 software", or "not compatible with traditional Windows software" are not exactly great selling points, at least, not without a somewhat lengthy explanation and until the MS store has a healthy collection of apps.

If I were Microsoft, I wouldn't promote the Surface and WinRT "too much" at the moment (may not even launch, but that's another story). The backlash and returns from people who're confused can cause troublesome damages.

Cheers.

Re:Why?

[Bert64]

So you have a history (windows mobile, windows phone 7) of products with the same name that are totally incompatible...

And now you have a system which is mostly compatible at the source code level, where applications are predominantly distributed without source...

And all this, tied to a brand that is generally considered to be poor quality but tolerated due to its ubiquity, only its trying to enter markets where existing products dominate and those products generally have a much better reputation.

This is just going to frustrate and anger users

Re:Why?

[Spliffster]

My ISP (cable and wireless) is constantly getting cheaper while offering more bandwidth (they do not only promise but deliver more).

But hey, I am not living in the US ... my phone's bandwidth will supersede my cable subscription this year by a 5 fold (LTE for approx US 80/month).

Best
-S

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

no OS means no admins and no hassles

I think you severely underestimate how many people want this.

The days of putting out unusable, buggy crap and claiming it's a useful tool are finally drawing to a close now that there's more competition and the general population is becoming more technologically adept.

Re:Why?

[hairyfeet]

Yep betting on the cloud is the WRONG move ATM, not with the ISPs and carriers playing "let's fuck the consumer!" with price hikes and diminishing caps. I think this will also bite Win 8 in the ass, MSFT built it around phoning home and social media and both of which won't work without bandwidth.

So with the economy in the crapper and network prices going nowhere but up Google should be worried, because when every ad costs you you'll be more likely to block and Chrome OS? A non starter I'm betting.

Re:Why?

[unixisc]

I agree w/ this one. Windows NT on RISC - Alpha & MIPS - should have taught Microsoft all that was there to learn. The Alpha at least had the performance advantage, while the MIPS, had SGI supported NT on MIPS more whole-heartedly like Irix, could have been a major visualization platform for Windows.

But w/ ARM, there is no such advantage. Here, battery power, while useful, would be less compelling, b'cos if it was really serious, one would look @ tablets. Yeah, they may be cheaper, but so is Linux, and we can see where that went. Google on the other hand is doing the smart thing by preferring ARM to x64, so that there will be no point in uninstalling Linux and installing ChromeOS in its place.

Incidentally, which Linux is ChromeOS based on? Debian? Fedora? Ubuntu? Gentoo? Slackware? Which one?

Re:Why?

[halltk1983]

What do you mean I can't play the Old Republic on my phone? It has Windows on it!

Re:Why?

[hairyfeet]

But you just proved my point, even you admit you'd be more likely to get a C-60 Bobcat and have offline and online from one unit, instead of being stuck with a thin client in a laptop form factor.

BTW I have one of the 12 inch AMD E-350 EEE netbooks and I have to say i just love the thing. i get nearly 6 hours on a battery, it only weighs 2.5 pounds, nice clear screen, and does 1080p over HDMI so I can just plug it into a TV and use it for an HTPC, its nice.

Other than schools though I just don't see the selling point of Chromebooks, I mean how many are 100% within WiFi range 24/7/365? With my netbook if I have to set while my mom is in the doctor's office and there is no net, no problem, I even took mine camping so I could have my tunes and just charged it off the 12v adapter. With the ChomeBook though if I didn't have a net connection I'd be SOL and paying $250 for a device that limited when i could buy a new Atom dual for that is just nuts.

BTW I don't know if you are in the USA or not but if you are and want one of those netbooks cheap just keep an eye on this site because they get different models every day and you can get some crazy deals. I had a couple of friends buy from there, one got a dual core Atom Dell mini from there for $120 and it was like new, another waited and got an AMD C-60 Acer for $149 which other than a scratch on the bottom of the thing you couldn't tell wasn't new.

Re:Why?

[Stuarticus]

Have you tried searching amazong for tablet keyboard? There's a pretty good selection of keyboards in the 7-12$ range. Of course you might want to pay 120$ to get one for Surface.

Re:Why?

[VGPowerlord]

And of course any Windows RT app you write will run on Windows 8 and Windows 8 Phone(and the tablets for that matter).

ONLY if it's a .NET app. If you write a C++ app with a WinRT interface, it's only going to run on the platform it's compiled for (although the developer CAN compile multiple versions of it).

Re:Why?

[unixisc]

The people who hate both Microsoft and Apple. and love Google and/or Linux - that's the market I see for this. Maybe this will succeed where System 76 didn't. Speaking of which, companies like System 76 that want to promote Linux, or others that want to promote BSD - they too should take this ARM route, so that the PCs will be cheaper (Google is mainly charging for its brand, just like Apple & Microsoft do) and they will run only Linux or BSD, but not Windows. I doubt that Windows RT will run on any ARM - just the ones Microsoft certifies.

Re:Why?

[ifiwereasculptor]

Of course I "proved" your point, I was agreeing with you (the "as you say" part is a huge tell).

To further clarify what I said: I could easily see myself using it, since I already rely on Google Docs and web services for most of my needs. However, it's too expensive to compete with similarly priced C-60s unless you have some sort of utopian internet availability. A C-60 would also have way more processing power, not to mention x86 compatibility. Right now, it's nuts.

Unfortunately (at least when it comes to purchasing technology), I'm not in the US. I've been wanting a C-60 for quite come time, now, but I think I'm going with a desktop version at 1.6GHz. Seems like it would be great as a file server/HTPC and is extremely cheaper than the netbook version.

Come to think of it, maybe that's how Google should have approached the Chromebook: sell it as a uATX board. Desktops don't usually suffer from lack of internet availability and its pricing would then be greatly reduced. Most desktops are now only internet access points for people, anyway, and the Chromebook would be a dream to all geeks who have to support friends and family who only want to access the internet but manage to keep breaking their OSs in the process.

Re:Why?

[painandgreed]

no OS means no admins and no hassles,...

As somebody who has worked in an environment that has had a thin client deployment for a number of years, let me just say this,...

Ha hah ha he he ehe eh ho.... oh, can't breathe....he he he...

One might think that a thin client is less work but in reality, they end up being even more work and a greater risk than just managing images for desktops. Not only do the servers and network all just add more possible points of failure, but you're in a situation where if one computer has an issue, a number of computers possibly being all of them have problems. Add in that they, for some reason, seem to cost just as much as desktop computer (not including servers), and they really seem to lose all advantages.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

There need to be bandwidth "caps", and ISP's need to compete over them, and there needs to be actual competition. That is the only way to get neutrality. Otherwise it will always be, "unlimited, but you can't X or we permaban you," which is much worse for the Internet than no unlimited plans. (X could be run servers, stream audio, share with neighbors fon.com-style, use the video feature in GTalk, bittorrent, netflix)

I thought this was well understood now that people knew the "unlimited" plans have always had semi-secret caps associated with them? With vzw LTE you can blow through your 10GByte in 10 minutes. gee, thanks, so glad it's fast. Can we drop this pretense already?

Re:Why?

[Tough Love]

Why google is maintaining 2 different OSes? Microsoft has gone in different direction to make same OS for its phone, Table and PC.

Excuse me, but which Googlers modded down that fair question? Not that I am any fan of Microsoft, quite the contrary, but I am very definitely not a fan of evil Googlers. At least, Microsofties are unabashedly evil.

Re:Why?

[Tough Love]

Google's announced a number of times that their long-term plan is to converge Android with Chrome OS in the long term.

If so, what's the holdup? It should be abundantly clear by now that the market for a browser-only laptop is vanishingly small. To sell Chromebook, Google needs to ship the Chromebook with Android and add a touchscreen so that the device is not perceived as inferior to a tablet + bluetooth keyboard. It's really time to stop beating the dead cloud-only horse.

Why ship Chromebook with Android? Not for any technical reason... KDE would be a better choice technically... but because the market knows Android and wants it.

Re:Why?

[Tough Love]

who is gonna want an OS that is constantly blowing through bandwidth and is worthless without it when their ISPs are being stingy

And who wants a laptop that is basically a brick when the net connection drops?

Re:Why?

[Tough Love]

Typing on a tablet sucks unless you have a physical keyboard (which drives the price quite a bit higher)

Oh yeah, 25 bucks higher.

That's gotta hurt.

Re:Why?

[Jmc23]

hahahaha, it's almost like you're naive enough to think that the majority of consumers understand all those buzzwords you threw around

The major thought process will be like this: oooh, shiny. thin, recognizable brand name, give me three.

Maybe what you said would make sense in an alternate universe where linux was king of the desktop.

Re:Why?

[hairyfeet]

Look up the E350 barebones friend, don't know if its the same there but here those sell for around $130 USD with a nice HTPC style case and PSU. I've built a couple of them for use as HTPCs and office boxes and the owners are quite happy, you are talking a max of less than 20w under load, full 1080P over HDMI, hell they even have a PCIe slot in case you want to upgrade the graphics later. Its pretty nice as an HTPC but just remember to get the fastest RAM the board supports as it has shared memory so the RAM speed counts. i changed the 2Gb of 1066 for 2 4Gb sticks of 1333 in my EEE and I could tell a pretty big difference, games that would be laggy before play nice now.

But one thing we seem to agree on is the price, it just makes NO sense! Why would anyone pay the same price as a netbook for something that isn't as good? When they first announced Chrome OS I thought it would be a game changer, I thought they'd sell them in the $100-$150 range and just take over the low end market, but the price is simply too high, you'd be better off with a netbook or a Kindle as with both of those they are at least useful offline.

Anyway good luck on your HTPC, I can say they are pretty sweet for the task and if you don't want to pay for Windows OpenELEC has a build just for the AMD Fusion chips, its got the XBMC UI and is actually pretty nice.

Re:Why?

[hairyfeet]

Not to mention you can't even do anything to "unbrick" when there is no net, you are just SOL. And who thought $250 was a good price? They sell the new Atom dual core netbooks for that at Walmart and those have a fully functional OS and can have the OS changed for anything you want.

I honestly thought Google was gonna slaughter when I heard about Chrome OS, I thought they'd price it in the $100 range and just wipe out the low end. instead they first tried selling it for more than a quad AMD laptop! and now they are pricing it even with the Atom which gives you more hard drive space,more features, and most importantly can run anything you want off and online. I just wonder how long it will be before these things end up on Woot! because that price has fail written all over it.

Re:Why?

[ifiwereasculptor]

Unfortunately, the E-350 ends up costing more than a Celeron G530 around here, which is a bit insane. Processors are exempt from import taxes, but MBs and other components aren't, and the E-350 isn't considered a processor and pays the full tax (on the upside, AMD APUs pay none). So it's either the C-60 or, if I go any higher, I'd be crazy not to get more for my money and get a cheap Intel. Especially considering I plan on running Linux (though I'm taking a look at OpenELEC now, thank you for the tip).

Re:Why?

[loyukfai]

Thought you were joking but then I read this...

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3197703&cid=41710195

I sincerely hope it's a joke.

Cheers.

Re:Why?

[Eskarel]

In actuality, when Microsoft talks about "C++ being a first class citizen" they actually mean managed C++ which compiles into the .NET CLR. Using unmanaged C++ is an option, but it's definitely about a third class citizen.

Re:Why?

[crtreece]

I just don't see how Google's plans work out long term unless they want to get into the ISP and carrier business

Maybe they plan to expand on the fibre to the home services they describe here.

When you combine their move into the last mile physical connection business, with their ties to US government intelligence agencies, I can't begin to understand how they are defining the term "evil" in item 6 on their philosophy page, "You can make money without doing evil." On that page, they seem to want to define evil as not correctly labeling advertising. I think most people have a different definition.

Some examples.

1. Collaboration with the NSA. EPIC attempted to find out more about this via FOIA requests, but was eventually rejected.
2. Ties to the CIA funded venture capital firm In-Q-Tel via their acquisition of Keyhole, which eventually became google earth. Around the same time, Rob Painter, Director of Technology Assessment at In-Q-Tel, took the position of Chief Technologist and a Senior Manager for Google Federal at google.
3. Investing, along with In-Q-Tel, in web predictive analysis firm Recorded Future.
4. Working with the DEA to surveil their users. Google and Yahoo are reported to be charging for it, while Microsoft does it for free. I'm not sure which way is more evil.
5. Developing software to eavesdrop on users.

I guess if they changed their name to Panopticon, it would be a little too obvious. And, they might have to fight facebook for it.

Re:Why?

[MightyYar]

Not to mention you can't even do anything to "unbrick" when there is no net, you are just SOL.

I don't have one, but my understanding is that you can still access and edit Google Drive (and thus all your docs) when disconnected from the net - it just won't update the "cloud" until you reconnect.

They sell the new Atom dual core netbooks for that at Walmart and those have a fully functional OS and can have the OS changed for anything you want.

Yeah, but the Acer at Walmart has a crappier screen (1024x600 vs 1366x768) and is slightly heavier. It also comes with less RAM. You are right, it's not going to wipe out the low end - but it's also a pretty good deal, hardware-wise.

Re:Why?

[DragonWriter]

Not to mention you can't even do anything to "unbrick" when there is no net, you are just SOL. And who thought $250 was a good price?

Its a good price for the core of the target market, which is people who are committed to Google's web-based app ecosystem. The $249 price includes, after all, $119.76 worth of storage in Google Drive (100GB @ 4.99/mo * 12 mo.)

Re:Why?

[DragonWriter]

Google's announced a number of times that their long-term plan is to converge Android with Chrome OS in the long term.

If so, what's the holdup?

What hold up? The plan is proceeding apace. I wouldn't really expect full integration to occur until sometime after Portable Native Client is in general release in Chrome (I was actually a bit surprised they went with ARM-based Chromebooks before that.)

To sell Chromebook, Google needs to ship the Chromebook with Android and add a touchscreen so that the device is not perceived as inferior to a tablet + bluetooth keyboard.

They may need that to sell Chromebook to you, but they may be happy enough not doing that. They are probably quite happy to continue selling Android tablets -- including ones that people will by bluetooth keyboards for -- to people who prefer them to Chromebooks.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it. -- Upton Sinclair

Secretly someone or many at MS know it, but don't want it to be commonly known.

Re:Why?

[halltk1983]

My comment was a joke, though I wouldn't mind an app to send out my companions while I'm not sitting at my computer...

Almost like my EEE PC 901

[Anonymous Coward]

My old EEE 901 also boots in 10 seconds and its (custom) battery also lasts 6.5 hours. (It used to last 9 hours, but after years of extensive use it lost capacity.) The price is fair, though, so I'm wondering whether it will be possible to put Linux on it? Also, does it have a non-glare screen?

Re:Almost like my EEE PC 901

[Anonymous Coward]

The only good thing about the 901 is the case. :P

The 900A has abetter CPU, better (multitouch) touchpad, and they both magically fits in the 901's smaller case. My sweet hybrid runs two hours on its aging stock battery (I had one of those big-ass batteries for my 901, but the hybrid needs a 900A pack and I never got one), but same quick bootup.

Then I got an N900 and a U2010, and between the two I've lost interest in laptops that don't fit in a jacket pocket.

Re:Almost like my EEE PC 901

[taxman_10m]

I also have a 900a! Gotta rate it as one of my best purchases. Doesn't feel flimsy, has a great matte screen, nice size. XUbuntu works pretty good on it. If I were to replace it I'd go with an Acer Aspire One 756. Chromebook? More like Cripplebook.

Not even Google think that...

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the Arstechnica article (http://is.gd/mj2c9D), Google are positioning this as a second PC for people who already have a PC or Mac, so the headline is just clickbait.
This and the price-point means they're pitching these to compete with cheap tablets. After all tablets are the second computer for a lot of people, using it alongside a PC or Mac, costing similar dollars in some cases (and of course, Arm-based and cloud-friendly, like tablets).

My personal feeling is that these new Chromebooks will be about as successful as the last lot. Which is not very successful.

L8r.

What is the ARM bringing?

[mattbee]

For £300 I got an Atom-based netbook with an 80GB SSD, 4GB RAM, slightly smaller screen and 9 hour battery life. It can run Chrome, and a lot of other things. What's the ARM bringing to the Chromebook, if it can't give far better battery life?

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[mattbee]

Oh I misread ... obviously $250 is nearly half of £300, ish. Am still surprised that the ARM doesn't stand for better battery life though.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[kukulcan]

For £300 I got an Atom-based netbook with an 80GB SSD, 4GB RAM, slightly smaller screen and 9 hour battery life. It can run Chrome, and a lot of other things. What's the ARM bringing to the Chromebook, if it can't give far better battery life?

£300 GBP are $482.
That's what ARM is bringing.
BTW where do you get a netbook with an 80 GB SSD?

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[chill]

The missing factor is the physical size and weight of the respective batteries. I expect Google doesn't prizes smaller/thinner/cooler over longer charge once it passed about 6 hours.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[geekboybt]

I believe I've heard that in mobile computing, the largest consumer of power is the LCD screen itself.

I'm also not sure which version of Atom you're referring to, but the original one was paired with such a crappy chipset that it basically negated most of the power savings.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[mattbee]

Yeah sorry I spotted the disparity too late. It's an ASUS 1025CE which has a spec of 1GB RAM and 320GB HDD, for £320. It's upgradeable to 4GB RAM, but because they forgot to cut a whole in the underneath, you have to take the bastard thing apart. The SSD was an Intel 80GB I had spare which I think goes for about £70-80 these days.

Linux i386 installs fine, but the "Cedar View" Intel graphics drivers are still hard to find packaged. The rest of the hardware worked with Ubuntu 12.04 just fine though.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[mattbee]

For fuck's sake, sorry, the base price is £220 not £320.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[Tapewolf]

Well, the intel-based one was even more expensive when it came out, IIRC it was approaching £500. This - the cheaper ARM version - is what they should have done in the first place, though arguably the price is still a bit too high for a dumb terminal that can't be used on an aircraft.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the Engadget hands on, I reckon it sounds like it's giving your netbook a run for its money:

"This is a solid machine -- build quality and materials are fantastic for the price. It's also pleasantly thin and light, a boon for people who are used to carrying a laptop around every day. "

Good build, low weight.

"Performance is somewhere between the original Atom-based Chromebooks and the current Celeron-equipped Series-5 model."

Not bad, considering the price. Sounds like it performs about on par with or better than your netbook.

"If you're used to working in the cloud, you're basically getting 80 percent of the entry-level MacBook Air experience for a quarter of the price. Factor in the Google Now integration and 100GB of free Google Drive storage for two years and this latest Chromebook is a winner."

Sounds pretty good to me. And tbh, it's probably more handsome than your run of the mill netbook. That just sounds like icing on the cake to me, though.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[ProbablyJoe]

The Intel Atom CPUs actually have pretty low power usage compared to ARM. The Intel powered RAZR i has better battery life than the ARM powered RAZR M (identical hardware besides the SoC). The performance of the Intels isn't quite as good in mobiles, but that's partly down to optimisation.

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[Anonymous Coward]

The conversion is wrong, $250 is £250 when it comes to "pound land" and that's almost £300...

Re:What is the ARM bringing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pricing rarely works out like that in the UK - I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the UK version for upwards of £200.

Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Khyber]

My three year old laptop outperforms this thing, has higher resolution, weighs about half a pound more, and I don't have to worry about needing internet connectivity to access EVERYTHING (since this thing comes with horrendously shitty local storage space.)

Weak, lame. No thanks.

Google has zero clue how to design much of anything. Failure after failure shows this.

So much for all of those PhDs.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

Your laptop? What kind of battery life does that bad bitch have? Not 6.5 hours, probably. And if you're concerned about local storage, you are entirely missing the point of the Chromebook and Chrome OS.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[TheGratefulNet]

how true it is!

book smarts (mostly what google hires for) doesn't mean shit when it comes to shipping products, designing them and not abandoning them!

so far, google used to do search right. they can do some anti-spam (less and less effective as they are gamed more and more) but not much else.

the nexus one 'flagship' was quickly abandoned and to this day you cannot use it for more than a few hours before it loses its screen touch calibration and goes crazy, needing a power cycle.

I know its not the current flagship but to abandon stuff like that and not even to have fixed a true showstopper leaves me completely unimpressed.

(and having interviewed at G, I'm also underwhelmed in everything I've seen about them, other than their highly luxurious facilities!)

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

mine currently has 9 hours. true it is actually about 50% higher cost than the chromebook, but it is also about 4 times faster and 100 times more usefull

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Khyber]

More like 9 hours since half of the weight is a custom battery, and it covers the bottom of the laptop in its entirety.

Anyone stupid enough to risk the security of their data to the outside world deserves to be an idiot with a Chromebook.

Especially in this world of privacy violations and shit security software.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

A custom battery. Dont tell me you build the laptop in your garage. I have seen many outlandish claims from you, and this is too outlandish even for you.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[geekoid]

My Nexus 1 worked like trooper., Now I have a nexus II.
Also works like a trooper.

I take you you aren't smart enough and the only way your ego can handle it is by blaming them.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[ArchieBunker]

His "custom" battery most likely includes Li-ion cells from ebay and duct tape. I can make an even longer lasting battery with a backpack and some deep cycle lead acid batteries.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

Nexus II? Can you tell us more? ...nothing's been released with that name yet.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

What model, sir, if I may ask?

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Omestes]

the nexus one 'flagship' was quickly abandoned and to this day you cannot use it for more than a few hours before it loses its screen touch calibration and goes crazy, needing a power cycle.

Welcome to cellphone land, the land of throw away products. Its fixed hardware, with the rather rapid cycle, so there really isn't much of a point for supporting it for over a year or two.

Though at this moment, my Nexus 7 beats the crap out of my Asus Transformer, both in support (no support for you, once something better comes out. You should have quickly bought a Prime or Infinity the second they came out, cheapskate), and experience, even though the latter cost more, and is 10" (as opposed to 7"). I don't expect it to get good support past the two year mark.

Still better than my Verizon Motorola Droid, which has been stuck on Froyo for two years, and now won't even answer calls without substantial lag. This is true even without a single superfluous app installed on it anymore. Or my Dad's Droid Global, which has a well known defect that neither Motorola or Verizon wants to acknowledge (half the screen won't register touch input). Or... Actually I don't know anyone with a device that really works well after a year. Phones are crap, and no one bothers to support them.

I admit to some bias, the Nexus 7 has pretty much made me fall in love, it is the best device I've used in a long, long time. I'm sure this will wear off soon.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Khyber]

"His "custom" battery most likely includes Li-ion cells from ebay and duct tape"

You must not have those nice notebooks with the bottom dock that allows for both power expansion plus workstation connectivity.

Do you even know those have existed for well over a decade?

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Khyber]

For the HP DV7 (if you bought the version with the expansion dock on the bottom, hard to get as only one model carried it and that was a EU model I had to get shipped to USA.) It is a 12 cell extended battery that plugs right into the expansion port, for a total of 9+12=21 cell Li-Ion.

Re:Crap Resolution, Crap Specs

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you're concerned about local storage, you are entirely missing the point of the Chromebook and Chrome OS.

...which is: all your data belongs to Google and if we feel like it or you don't agree with our arbitrary licensing terms, we may delete it any time.

Does it run Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

No? Not interested... But I'd buy one long before I'd buy any Apple product...

Is the problem Chrome itself?

[cait56]

This hardware at this price running Linux, Android, Windows RT or even iOS would be a great bargain. What I have not yet seen in any promotion of a Chromebook is how well it works as a basic document editor when I'm *not* connected to the Cloud. If I need a lightweight mobile editing device with a permanently attached keyboard (which I cannot accidentally leave behind) then I need that portable document editor to be able to work even if the WiFI at the conference I am attending isn't working yet or is just plain overloaded. Adding a carrying case with a bluetooth keyboard, and software, to my Nexus 7 comes out way ahead Microsoft Surface. If this Chromebook ran Android, it would come out ahead. But have they really enabled Chromebooks to work effectively when detached from the network yet?

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google Doc's will work off-line saving a copy on the local SSD and will update the online copy as soon as you log on. At the moment only the Documentation will work offline while the spreadsheets and slides can be viewed but not edited offline for now.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[occasional_dabbler]

Really? How is this possibly useful? So I can't use this thing to work on trains or planes, just on my home wifi, on the 3G portable hotspot I would need to buy (so long as I'm in a city) or at Starbucks? I would get better value from a pen a calculator and 40 pads of quad-ruled A4...

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[DragonWriter]

This hardware at this price running Linux, Android, Windows RT or even iOS would be a great bargain. What I have not yet seen in any promotion of a Chromebook is how well it works as a basic document editor when I'm *not* connected to the Cloud.

The Chrome browser (including Chrome OS) has considerable support for web apps that operate offline. Using it as a "document editor" offline depends on the kind of document you are editing and the availability of a web app that supports editing that kind of document offline. Google Docs supports offline editing.

But have they really enabled Chromebooks to work effectively when detached from the network yet?

From a platform (OS/browser) level, yes; but like most platforms, its not just a matter of whether the platform supports functionality but whether there are applications that leverage that support.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[cait56]

So you're saying that Chrome can do almost 40% of what Android can do.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[Fred Ferrigno]

This hardware at this price running Linux

It is hardware running Linux. You can even install Ubuntu if you want.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[ntropia]

I guess buying and making it dual-booting a full Linux distro could be the biggest appeal, but I'm not convinced about the bargain.

For few tens of dollars more you can get a real laptop running a decent subset of the x86 program ecosystem.
Then, why would I ever think about buying something that's craving for the network all the time in order to unroll its full potential?
When you'll try to color me unimpressed, I'll be long gone...

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just use joli OS instead. It's basically a stripped Ubuntu with cloud services built on. Light and cloud centered and aware of needing to be functional offline.

And if you need to you can access everything from the my.jolicloud website from any Internet enabled computer.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[colinrichardday]

If it runs "standard" Linux, then I presume I can run GNU emacs and LaTeX. Issue resolved

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[rtfa-troll]

Have you actually confirmed that. I could find the developer switch information for the older ones, but that wasn't obviously stated on any of the pages about the new Chromebook. I will likely buy one if this is true.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[rtb61]

Who really is the targeted market. Obviously big market the market to win is education, get them while they are young and you have them for life. That is the real battle ground, the whole semi-disposable notebook market. Handle some rough and tumble, be readily replaceable, promote and environment of education solutions including free digital textbooks and lesson plans as well as educational interactive exercises.

Tablets will always struggle, just like in the days prior to computers, how many people could run their businesses from clipboards. They had their place and it wasn't in the day to day.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm on my $249 Chromebook. It works just fine as a basic document editor. Google has implemented a cache solution that stores data in a local pool and then synchronizes it once you connect up. I did some basic word processing and spreadsheet tasks offline and then synced and all worked fine. Obviously there are a lot of things that you can't do offline, but then again, you can't do most of those things offline on any PC either. Here's a few things I did today on my Chromebook

1) I took 6 one hour conference calls on it using the Google Talk app. In the US that app includes FREE/$0 calling to other US #'s.
2) I video chatted with one of my employees in another city
3) I didn't touch my work provided blackberry at all for the whole day (I usually use it to make conference calls)
4) I text chatted with several of my employees on both my Chromebook and my Android. As I typed on either device, it synchronized the other device so I always had the current conversation
5) I watched video of the aftermath of the hurricane damage
6) I used the BrowserText add on to send text messages from my Android phone. I did not have to type them out on the phone.
7) I printed documents using the Google Cloudprint function (built in) which went to my HP printer which is connected to the Internet
8) I imported a 50 slide powerpoint I had done on my corporate computer into Google Docs and took a look. I could see doing some minor editing to get it operational under Google's "sheets" application
9) I took several screen captures which I sent to coworkers of material they need to be appraised of
10) I purchased a song from Amazon (mp3) that my daughter needs to learn for an orchestra performance later this week.

I'm all in.

Re:Is the problem Chrome itself?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh... and yesterday I plugged it into my HDTV using the HDMI port. Man that was nice. With a bluetooth keyboard and mouse (yes, it has bluetooth) I would have my whole media center experience going on. If you can get past the "it doesn't run Windows apps" thing (or Linux apps), and you can get past the "I need all my stuff stored locally and plugging in a 64G USB stick doesn't do it for me on top of the 16G that it comes with" then I think there's a nice Windows 8 PC in your near future. Having used it solidly for five days now, it has become my primary PC. I didn't even turn on my desktop today.

compete with netbooks?

[Anonymous Coward]

How does this compete with netbooks, such as an Acer Aspire with Windows 7 Home Edition for under $238?

Re:compete with netbooks?

[bloodhawk]

It doesn't. It appears to not compete with anything. It is too expensive compared to other cheap functional options. Lacks performance and functionality of similarly priced devices and has kinda average battery and screen quality. I don't actually see any market for this device.

no hard drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

No hard drive. Kinda sucks. Supports USB 3 so an external might be OK.

Fixed the headline for you...

[Dan East]

ARM-Based Chromebooks Ready To Battle Windows 8 and Android Tablets

Sometimes I just have to sit and scratch my head wondering at some of the things these self-destructive companies do. Chromebook is for simple, inexpensive, low-end devices. Is iPad any of those things? No. Are the new Windows 8 tablets? No. The only other devices in the same category as Chromebook are eReaders like Kindle and Nook (both running a modified version of Android), and "actual" Android Tablets like the Google Nexus. Just fragment your own market there as much as possible, Google.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[kwerle]

I agree - though it'll be interesting to see what the iPad mini brings, next week. With the touch at $200 and the pad at $400, it seems like $300 for the mini is a pretty solid guess.

While there are plenty of reasons for *me* to prefer a chromebook, the truth is that I have a laptop already. The rest of my family would probably be much better off with a tablet, and the iDevices pretty much have that nailed down.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to tech. You eat your babies and you move on. And you do it early and you do it often. If you don't someone else will and leave you in the dust to be discounted and forgotten.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[rahvin112]

Given the number of sales of Chromebooks they aren't really fragmenting anything.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Just fragment your own market there as much as possible, Google.

The risk of not "fragmenting your own market" is that you get left behind when the market shifts due to innovation because you were too busy trying to protect your old product from internal cannibalization.

How many people do you know who are using Sony MP3 players?

Or Motorola cell phones? Or RIM or Nokia smartphones, for that matter?

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[Eskarel]

Google isn't fragmenting their market because they don't sell tablets, they sell advertising based on all the personal information they collect.

Fundamentally the problem for Google is that android is just too damned useful. You can do things on it that Google isn't made instantly aware of and without Google showing you advertising. So instead they're releasing crippleware crap no one is going to buy.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[swillden]

The only other devices in the same category as Chromebook are eReaders like Kindle and Nook (both running a modified version of Android), and "actual" Android Tablets like the Google Nexus.

I have a Chromebook, and I have a Nexus 7 tablet (and, actually, I also have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 which doesn't get much use since I got the 7), and they are *not* in the same category. The Chromebook is a laptop. It looks and feels and works like a laptop, except that it only "runs" web apps (which isn't quite the same as saying it only runs a browser, but close enough). However, given that 95% of what I do with a laptop is web apps, that's plenty. The tablet is a tablet; it's good for (very) light e-mail and docs, plus entertainment (games, video, books, etc.).

I need to see if I can get Chrome Remote working on my desktop. If I can do that, then I can also code on my Chromebook (albeit painfully, due to the difference between one 11" screen and two 24" screens), and it'll go from 95% of a laptop to 99%.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[technomom]

I think Google announced this in reaction to Amazon's WhisperCast introduction. Whispercast has the potential to put lots of Amazon devices (Fire, Kindle e-ink readers) into schools. I think that's exactly the audience that Samsung/Google are looking for here.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[jabuzz]

Install CloudRDP into Chrome. Admittedly it does cost a small amount, but provides a proper RDP client (all of the others require a middle man somewhere). Then just enable remote desktop on your desktop.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[AmiMoJo]

You are assuming that the market is a fixed size. I imagine Google and Samsung see that they can get new customers by producing a cheap and fast laptop. They can probably eat into the low end laptop market by offering something with "instant on" and a keyboard.

I'm quite interested. I like my Nexus 7 tablet but do a lot of typing on sites like Slashdot. A Chromebook looks ideal for me.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[swillden]

Install CloudRDP into Chrome. Admittedly it does cost a small amount, but provides a proper RDP client (all of the others require a middle man somewhere). Then just enable remote desktop on your desktop.

My desktop runs Linux.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

the acer ac700 and samsung series 5 chromebooks are low-end cpu's, but the samsung series 5 550 and chromebox both have normal midrange cpu's and are much faster.

it amazes me people will prattle my ear off about phone and tablet specs but can't be bothered to read the basic things about chromeos devices. I guess it's a good thing, yet it's still annoying somehow.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[jabuzz]

Then install xrdp and x11rdp and problem solved. The Linux desktop that I am typing this on is nothing more than an RDP session, and has been for several years now.

Re:Fixed the headline for you...

[swillden]

Interesting. I wasn't aware anyone had implemented the RDP protocol on X. Cool, I'll look into it. How well does it perform on low-bandwidth connections?

Get ready for the Battle in Seattle

[Anonymous Coward]

Only one can come out alive, but which? Teh Google is in the shithouse so the outcome is inevitable, and nevermind that Google's crap HW has been around more than your sister's yahoo! Microsoft shoots and scores! Teh Google floats downstream, prone and naked for all the fanboyz to see.

Challenging Windows with this?

[Eirenarch]

I believe Microsoft has better chance fighting Android with Windows Phone than Google has fighting Windows with this... thing.

What, No Touchscreen?

[CanHasDIY]

No touchscreen, shit for local storage, locked in to Google web apps...

Nah, I'll save my next disposable $250 for a Nexus 7.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[tgetzoya]

Are these comments not the same as when the iPod was announced a decade ago? Then again I doubt there are Google fanboys (if any) that are as rabid as the Apple ones.

For the record: I own an Android based phone and a Nexus 7, use Google products extensively and I still wouldn't buy this thing.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[DragonWriter]

Nah, I'll save my next disposable $250 for a Nexus 7.

I'm sure Google is extremely upset that rather than buying a Samsung-built-and-branded netbook using one of Google's operating systems you'll use the money to buy a Google-branded and ASUS-manufactured tablet running another one of Google's operating systems.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Anonymous Coward]

It has one of these newfangled dedicated tactile touchscreens that really feel 3d for input. The only downside it its rather slow refresh rate of up to 300,000 ms.
But I think that is worth it, for having an extra dedicated input device that doesn't take half of your main screen space away, and has such a great feeling that you can... get this.. type completely blind! I kid you not! You can find the keys without even looking! And you feel *exactly* when the key is pressed! How great is that?! SO INNOVATIVE!

It's called a "keyboard"! Check it out!

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Anonymous Coward]

300 s refresh rate? Sounds like a strange unit for refresh rate. And if it is once every 300s, it is damn too slow.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Remote Desktop for real apps. But I haven't tested it myself.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[UpnAtom]

Locked bootloader? Sure would make a nice Ubuntu machine.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Vegemeister]

Shit for local storage? 16 GB is luxurious. That's plenty to not care about remembering to run aptitude clean frequently, or decompress a tarball without worry. I have an EEE 701 with a 4 GB SSD, and it's still quite usable. That is shit for local storage.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you have to calculate at least five minutes for the replacement of your keyboard (layout). ;)
Especially if you have to manually pull off all the keys and stick new ones on there.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[CanHasDIY]

Are these comments not the same as when the iPod was announced a decade ago?

Maybe...

I never bought an iPod, either.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[CanHasDIY]

Overall, probably not. Now, the guys who run the Chromebook division, they might be wise to take notice.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[CanHasDIY]

Shit for local storage? 16 GB is luxurious.

Considering my current laptop-form-factor machine (it's a laptop :P) has almost a half-ter of storage, it's a gargantuan step down... unless the Chromebook isn't designed to replace my laptop?

Here's a question: if you broke the price of a Chromebook down to components, how much do you think Google is charging for that 16 gig? I can get a flash drive of the same capacity for about $20 right now, less if I buy in bulk.

I have an EEE 701 with a 4 GB SSD, and it's still quite usable. That is shit for local storage.

Yea, that's pretty bad. Personal data kept on flash drives, I presume?

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Vegemeister]

I can get a flash drive of the same capacity for about $20 right now, less if I buy in bulk.

Yes, but that flash drive will read at 20 MB/s second at best, write at 4 MB/s, and slow to a crawl under non-sequential writes due to its simplistic controller and lack of buffer memory. >Personal data kept on flash drives, I presume? Personal data kept on desktop, with a semester's worth synced with the EEE at any one time. SSHFS and Samba were also helpful.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he is not doing it in spite of google. I think CanHasDIY is only making the point that nexus 7 is a better product than chromebook. We don't have to love or hate all products a certain company makes.

Re:What, No Touchscreen?

[Anonymous Coward]

Less space than a nomad. Lame.

O_0

[multiben]

Google has zero clue how to design much of anything. Failure after failure shows this.
You must have a seriously impressive resume to legitimately claim that.

Re:O_0

[multiben]

Whoops. Guess I should learn how to use /.

Re:O_0

[TheGratefulNet]

actually, some of us DO have really stellar resumes. I've worked on some really amazing products that have shipped and had a good long life. can't say the same about most of the google products!

Re:O_0

[geekoid]

Sure you have.

Re:O_0

[ArchieBunker]

He invented a new type of douche nozzle. True story...

Who cares how long things take to boot?!?!?

[sootman]

ESPECIALLY on a portable device that you use roughly daily, assuming it wakes from sleep quickly. Booting is for a) after software updates or b) when you know you're not going to use it for several days. And personally, I can count on my hands how many times I've done (b) in the seven years I've owned a laptop.

Besides, powering off a machine means I lose all my open windows, apps, etc., and the time it takes to create all that is much more than any boot time.

Re:Who cares how long things take to boot?!?!?

[aaaaaaargh!]

I do.

Re:Crap Sour Grapes

[Anonymous Coward]

(and having interviewed at G, I'm also underwhelmed in everything I've seen about them, other than their highly luxurious facilities!)

So in other words, they said "don't call us, we'll call you" and you never heard from them again.

Re:Crap Sour Grapes

[TheGratefulNet]

actually, after meeting many of the employees and managers, I can honestly say, those are people that I'd not choose to work with.

the koolaid drinkage there is actually the worst I've seen in the 35+ years I've been working in software development.

It's perfect . . .

[Idou]

For my mom . . . who is in her 70s. Windows should not even be considered for such a demographic.

Re:It's perfect . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

How often is she going to call you up asking why nothing is working - because she isn't connected to the internet? It's about as perfect for old people as drivers licenses are.

Re:It's perfect . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

this is an absolutely TERRIBLE device for older people. Seriously a Mac or Windows is better, or better still a locked down nicely configured Ubuntu. But this thing is just asking for constant phone calls with requirements for internet to be fully functional.

Re:It's perfect . . .

[aNonnyMouseCowered]

"How often is she going to call you up asking why nothing is working - because she isn't connected to the internet? It's about as perfect for old people as drivers licenses are."

The Internet is the No.1 reason for a grandmom/pop to use a computer.

Re:It's perfect . . .

[Idou]

Absolutely right. Her primary application is the browser and now she no longer has to worry about losing any files.

Re:It's perfect . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

My Mother In Law, who I helpfully put on Linux 8 years ago is going to bring her computer down to my house (90 miles) tomorrow because email isn't working. She's on Ubuntu with Evolution. I'm 90% sure that the problem is that she accidentally clicked the offline button in the bottom left corner. It's just easier to have her bring it, clean it up and dust it off, patch it on my high speed connection and buy her lunch than to try to talk her through it on the phone.

If she had a Chromebook, this would be a non-issue. Oh, and she's 77

Should/could Chrome and Android merge ?

[obarthelemy]

Both run on the same basic hardware. Android has more apps, local apps, a better image, and good touch control. Chrome has better multitasking, keyboard/pointer handling, and more cloudy stuff.

Is there any reason why the two can't just merge ? I want my android tablet to handle a keyboard and mouse/trackpad better (right-click, CUA-type shortcuts...), and to have 2 tiled windows on-screen (a la Win8 RT) + pip-type video, as well as to allow me to "pin" apps I want always on, and a "guest" mode. Chrome seems to have all that, but is far too cloudy for me, I need local apps and data, at least until international data roaming is priced cheaply, and 4G speed are available everywhere including in hi-speed trains.. which should take 10+ years.

Re:Should/could Chrome and Android merge ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Asus Transformer series, just doesn't have window tiling which I've seen is included with Samsung Note 10.1 does have so not completely unlikely.

Re:Should/could Chrome and Android merge ?

[DragonWriter]

Google has long said their vision is for Android and ChromeOS to converge, from both sides, in the long term. Android getting Chrome as the default browser is a step in that direction.

Chrome seems to have all that, but is far too cloudy for me, I need local apps and data

Chrome -- the browser, whether in ChromeOS or elsewhere -- already supports local apps and data.

Re:Should/could Chrome and Android merge ?

[drinkypoo]

There is, in fact, no reason why they shouldn't merge. ChromeOS is a solution looking for a problem. The problem has already been solved by Android. If Android's browser were worth one tenth of one crap then ChromeOS wouldn't even exist. Why they've spent the effort there instead of improving Android's browser or porting full-fledged chrome to Android is well beyond me.

Re:Should/could Chrome and Android merge ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablet and mouse-driven UI's are completely different. The excessive whitespace or blackspace you see around every button reflects the slop of touch compared to the standard expected of mouse-equivalents. Compare the offline gmail interface (for tablets) with the online one (for mice), and you can see how the compromises are different and can't be merged. It really smacks you in the face, looking at those two side-by-side. Yet users obviously love touch, and multitap is possible only with touch, and maybe some other things that could be very exciting. Merging would exclude some of these advantages.

The physical hardware is different. Typing on a physical keyboard, for a programmer or a writer, is simply non-negotiable, yet a keyboard can't be included with a tablet and keep the star trek or "thinness-fad" appeal. Some people have low tolerance for getting oil all over their screens or want matte screens, while others find it more important to fetishize the purchasable consumer objects they see inside the screen by stroking or "flicking" them. (it's clear what side I'm on, but more importantly, you see there's a necessary physical difference that can't be merged.)

The weight/"thinness-fad" of Android pushes itself all the way into the applications which have to be written for battery efficiency first, function and maintainability second. It is always about the battery with Android, while ChromeOS just throws a 10x bigger battery pack in there so a whole class of optimizations becomes unnecessary even when both are trying to hit 36 hours.

The markets are different. Phones and tablets are about fashion first and function second. They are like clothing, jewelry, or cars. ChromeOS is about "tl;dr, just get my work done." You'd think you could have it both ways, but you can't because fashion people want to keep churning things that already work which conflicts with "just get work done", and they're always doing stupid things like blue-on-black text, or grey-gradient backgrounds that waste screen contrast, or time-wasting animations. Yet the phones _are_ jewelry, and there's nothing wrong with putting heaps of engineering effort into making a swiss watch even though a more objectively precise timekeeping device can be made by chinese for $5. I don't think either side should be ashamed, but you can see how these goals conflict, how the people holding them might *hate* each other and not *want* influence from the other side? Merging is a terrible idea.

The ecosystems are different. Android and iOS developers expect to spy on their users: snarf up their contacts, ping their geolocation, grab evercookies from devices. Web users don't put up with this bull crap. Carriers think they own the phones because of the contracts under which users pseudorent them, so they demand the right to approve every software update and push a bunch of spyware and wallpaper onto "their" devices, while ChromeOS pretends to be a 3G USB stick with a laptop attached so carriers have no right to influence or delay software pushes, and ChromeOS gets them very frequently, within days if there's a security bug, while mobile devices absolutely do not and must fight over this.

ChromeOS is a third app model. iOS has one, Android has another (java), and ChromeOS has html5 + media tags + fast javascript + NaCl. I think the ChromeOS model is the best, but needs time to develop, and a lot of people agree with that. If there were "merging", their app model would be sidelined or eliminated.

What's not different is the need for a cel radio, offline applications, and a sleep mode that's still pageable (for GTalk, Calendar, etc.). Both have the first, both attempt the second and do poorly (ChromeOS does a little better), and only Android offers the last.

The purpose of a Chromebook is obvious...

[RocketRabbit]

The idea is to route all traffic and usage data through Google, so that they can spy on you even more effectively. From what I understand, these Chromebooks record all audio in the area, compress it heavily, and send the recordings to Google to be analyzed for both advertising purposes, and additionally are passed off to the usual spy agencies if suspicious talk is detected.

These Chromebooks are dangerous to your privacy, and could be used to implicate you in criminal activities, ban you from air travel, or even get you NDAA'd by Obama's goon squads.

Re:The purpose of a Chromebook is obvious...

[Anonymous Coward]

"The idea is to route all traffic and usage data through Google, so that they can spy on you even more effectively. From what I understand, these Chromebooks record all audio in the area, compress it heavily, and send the recordings to Google to be analyzed for both advertising purposes"

Just FYI, if you don't ground the aluminium foil it acts as an antenna.

Re:The purpose of a Chromebook is obvious...

[RocketRabbit]

Yeah, nice try. Why don't you TCPDUMP and check how much encrypted traffic is going off to Google?

In this day, you're either rightly paranoid or extremely low-functioning.

Re:The purpose of a Chromebook is obvious...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're telling me that you don't MITM your own SSL connections?

Amateur.

Chromebooks are a non-event

[thetoadwarrior]

Seriously, a web only laptop is about as useful as getting AIDS. Some of us who commute have jobs that rely on more than facebook and gmail.

"Solution" in search of problem.

[guidryp]

I really don't see the problem this solves.

Not a high enough portion of my computer usage goes through Google for monitoring/monetizing?

There are not enough limited use gadgets in peoples homes?

My portable machines have too much independent capability when offline?

I am surprised Google is still pushing chromebooks. This is the first I heard of them in ages.

Re:"Solution" in search of problem.

[Vecanti]

I don't know about this device specifically, but at work in the lunch room we have a long row (20 machines?) of Quad Core Dell Win7 machines that are locked down to only run IE at 1280x1024. I'm not sure something like this would be such a bad idea when you look at what a waste those machines are just to run a web browser.

Re:"Solution" in search of problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

those machines probably don't cost much more than the chromebook and are that configuration as it is your companies standard box and image and they get bulk order discounts. We have something similar and the machines we run are also quad cores the price is only just over $300 a box.

Re:"Solution" in search of problem.

[bloodhawk]

The problem it solves is Google losing clicks on ads as the shift in device usage has really made it harder and harder for them to maintain growth (just look at todays Q1 financials for them). They need something that they can use to control the end users screen, cloud based computing vendor lock-in is their approach. looks more like pissing in the wind to me. To crappy to compete with Apple or MS and if you wanted cheap and functional you can build something better with Android or *nix that's far more functional while still being able to use the "cloud".

Valid price comparison?

[DragonWriter]

How does this compete with netbooks, such as an Acer Aspire with Windows 7 Home Edition for under $238?

I just checked Acer's website and the range of list prices for Aspire models is $349.99 through $1,299.99.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[Desler]

He's probably referring to buying it either used or from somewhere like Amazon where you aren't paying full retail like here.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[yelvington]

How does this compete with netbooks, such as an Acer Aspire with Windows 7 Home Edition for under $238?

I just checked Acer's website and the range of list prices for Aspire models is $349.99 through $1,299.99.

This is absolutely right. $249 LIST is a breakthrough price, even though some people are too thick to see that. Occasionally you'll find an 11.6 Acer on clearance or special in that price range (and if you do, BUY IT and install Linux), but over $300 is more typical.

The 11.6 size is a sweet spot. I have an Acer 1410 and my wife has an AO725, both running Ubuntu. It's rare that either of us does anything that couldn't be done with the Chromebook -- except for moving photos from an SD card to a hard drive. I know it's simple to plug either into a Chromebook. What I don't know is whether the ChromeOS UI plays nicely with external storage.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[taxman_10m]

I see them regularly for $300 at Target and Best Buy.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Your-Choice-of-Color-Acer-10.1-Netbook-PC-with-Intel-Atom-Dual-Core-N2600-Processor-and-Windows-7-Starter-Value-Bundle/21054383

Re:Valid price comparison?

[Anonymous Coward]

How does this compete with netbooks, such as an Acer Aspire with Windows 7 Home Edition for under $238?

I just checked Acer's website and the range of list prices for Aspire models is $349.99 through $1,299.99.

This is absolutely right. $249 LIST is a breakthrough price, even though some people are too thick to see that. Occasionally you'll find an 11.6 Acer on clearance or special in that price range (and if you do, BUY IT and install Linux), but over $300 is more typical.

The 11.6 size is a sweet spot. I have an Acer 1410 and my wife has an AO725, both running Ubuntu. It's rare that either of us does anything that couldn't be done with the Chromebook -- except for moving photos from an SD card to a hard drive. I know it's simple to plug either into a Chromebook. What I don't know is whether the ChromeOS UI plays nicely with external storage.

I don't think you have looked at prices recently. Walmart, Best Buy, even online places like newegg and tiger direct all have 10,11 and 14 inch laptop models under $300

Re:Valid price comparison?

[rtfa-troll]

$249 LIST is a breakthrough

Walmart, Best Buy, even online places ... have ... under $300

I've heard of people who don't read the article. I've seen people who don't read the summary; There have definitely been people who don't read the parent posting. However, this is a post which didn't even read his own post. I'd just like to put those two parts of the post next to each other to compare and contrast. I tried to emphasise the important word. This is the first time in ten years that I have felt a lack of the blink html tag. Awesome.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[Anonymous Coward]

$249 LIST is a breakthrough

Walmart, Best Buy, even online places ... have ... under $300

I've heard of people who don't read the article. I've seen people who don't read the summary; There have definitely been people who don't read the parent posting. However, this is a post which didn't even read his own post. I'd just like to put those two parts of the post next to each other to compare and contrast. I tried to emphasise the important word. This is the first time in ten years that I have felt a lack of the blink html tag. Awesome.

Perhaps you should have gone and browsed those sites before posting such a moronic reply, he may have said under $300, but there are quite a few their under $250 and if your happy with reconditioned then there is a crap load under $250 with better specs than this machine. There is NOTHING breakthrough about the $249 list price.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[rtfa-troll]

if your [sic] happy with reconditioned

that ... is ... not ... a ... list ... price.

Nor, for that matter, is any listing on any of the sites the great grandparent mentioned.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[hazem]

I also have one of the AO725 with Linux (Mint) and for the most part, I love the thing. It's the perfect portable little computer for taking to work and school since I started bike-commuting this year.

I have one question, though... have you tried to use a plug-in headset with it (like with Skype)? I've had no luck getting the internal mic to switch to the mic input of the "combo jack". I finally got a little USB dongle that provide a separate headphone and mic output and that works. But I'd love to be able to use the built-in connection without using up a usb port.

That, and the SD Card slot doesn't seem to be supported yet in any of the Linux variants I've tried.

One great improvement was to replace the harddisk with an SSD - it's much faster now.

Re:Valid price comparison?

[hazem]

Correction - I have the AO756 (Intel version, where the 725 seems to be AMD)...

All that said, I'm looking forward to getting the Nexus 7 as another option in my portable computing. I might consider a chrome book as long as it was easy to put some other OS on it (which appears to be the case).

ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[Zobeid]

This looks a lot like what companies were promising a few years ago: an inexpensive netbook with an ARM processor and Linux (or "Smartbook" as Samsung labeled them). It seemed like everybody was jumping on the bandwagon, and then before they even reached the market everybody jumped off the bandwagon and cancelled them, with weak excuses like "there's no demand" and "nobody will accept a netbook without Windows". And now the tide has turned once more, and suddenly it's a good idea again??

I've been waiting a long time with money in hand. Maybe I'll finally get to spend it. I'll wait until I see a real OS (i.e. desktop Linux distro) running on it, though. Shouldn't be that hard, right?

WHY OH WHY is this not being sold with a full OS that can run non-web-based apps? I mean, surely it wouldn't cost any more money to put Debian (or Ubuntu, or Mint, or whatever) on this thing and let us run both browser stuff *and* regular Linux apps, right? What's the rationale for limiting it?

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[Kjella]

WHY OH WHY is this not being sold with a full OS that can run non-web-based apps? I mean, surely it wouldn't cost any more money to put Debian (or Ubuntu, or Mint, or whatever) on this thing and let us run both browser stuff *and* regular Linux apps, right? What's the rationale for limiting it?

1) The whole reason for Chromebook is to push the Google bramd and Google products, it's what makes this have a business case.
2) Linux is perceived as a very technical OS for nerds, which is clearly not the market they're going for but to be a "webapp computer"

I mean there are already Linux distributions if you want to run Linux apps and Chrome and I don't think Google want their Chromebook to be compared to those. With google docs for office needs, gmail for email and facebook etc. for social media, online services like banking and webmail, stupid flash games for entertainment and whatnot they're pretty covered... it's not me, but I'm not surprised if there are people that fit the category. And I think there's very little crossover to people that miss their Linux apps.

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[grantek]

Would you trust a vendor preinstall of a desktop linux distro? Standard practice for Windows power users is to put down a clean install of the OS over whatever the vendor preinstalled, for power users I'd be happy with doing this for GNU/Linux distros even when the system comes with some flavour of Linux-based OS.

ChromeOS provides a set-and-forget OS that avoids the Microsoft tax and works for the non-power-user. As long as there's a supported method of reinstalling an unsigned OS (previous iterations of Chromebook have had this, but it's always something to watch for), that should be suitable for the power user to reinstall over.

In the magical future when there's big commercial support for users on desktop GNU/Linux, then it will be important for vendors to preinstall a desktop-grade OS, but not now. ChromeOS devices should become cheaper and cheaper, not more and more powerful for the same price.

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[Anonymous Coward]

Chromebooks are not "limited" to running Chrome OS. It takes only a few seconds to switch to "developer mode", and only a few minutes (mostly artificially imposed, for security concerns) for it to be ready to install any Linux OS you like.

One goal of Chrome OS is simplicity. Supporting both traditional apps and web apps is a lot of work, and adds confusion and complexity for the users. Since we don't really want to get rid of the web apps, the best path to a simpler (and more secure) system is to get rid of all the others.

(Disclaimer: I work on Chrome OS.)

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[Anonymous Coward]

why would you want to? The device is a pretty poor spec to begin with, So google must think the value in this device is Chrome OS to put the premium price on it as otherwise you may as well get something slightly more powerful with a harddrive for approximately the same money. To me this thing completely missing the mark, the hardware is too lacking to justify buying and using it with another OS and Chrome OS really lacks features and value to be something you would genuinely prefer to use over other options.

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[leromarinvit]

At least the x86 Chromebooks have a developer switch, which lets you install whatever you want on it - so it really shouldn't be too hard.

This might very well be what I've been waiting for too (well, not this one in particular, but ARM Chromebooks generally). My wish list:
* decent screen (>= 1600x900, preferably IPS)
* at least 64GB flash (or user-upgradeable, either mSATA or just plain old 2.5")
* at least 2GB RAM (4GB and user-upgradeable would be better, but we'll probably have to wait another year or so for 64-bit ARM for that to be viable)

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[Anonymous Coward]

They were going to be called smartbooks. I still somewhat want one but I don't want a glossy screen.

(Also want it to be similar in size to an ultrabook don't expect the same type of build quality but with an arm they should be able to do it).

mips (With DMA) or powerpc would be ok as well.

Only one I have seen is http://www.genesi-tech.com/products/smartbook But it is really underpowered.

Matte Screen / 1366x768 / Decent amount of RAM (Fairly likely for a machine like this you will end up having to build stuff yourself).

(I would rather have a 16:10 screen but it is never going to happen. Don't even know that what I want will).

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks a lot for this information, that's exactly what I was interested in. Please mod parent up.

I'd consider buying something like a Chromebook only if I can put Ubuntu or Arch on it and wasn't sure whether these devices are boot-locked or not. You say they are not, that makes them much more interesting to me and other power users. (Even though, to be honest, the main criterion for me is the readability of the device's screen in broad daylight anyway.)

Re:ARM Linux Netbook finally arrives?

[ffflala]

WHY OH WHY is this not being sold with a full OS that can run non-web-based apps? I mean, surely it wouldn't cost any more money to put Debian (or Ubuntu, or Mint, or whatever) on this thing and let us run both browser stuff *and* regular Linux apps, right? What's the rationale for limiting it?

You *can* put a different Linux distro on it, if you want. You have to flip an easily-accessible switch and, in the process, disable a nifty security feature to do so.

The rationale for ChromeOS is that it provides a verified boot environment. This feature gives it a park that seems to me like a decent selling point for corporate and government users who have to process sensitive information -- securities firms, medical records, social security numbers, etc. From their blog:

Our security model is rooted in two pieces of hardware that ship with every Chromebook: a custom firmware chip and a Trusted Platform Module (TPM). The custom firmware chip consists of two parts: a read-only firmware and a read-write firmware that can be updated. When you press the power button, our read-only firmware starts a process we call Verified Boot. It uses an embedded 8192-bit RSA public key to verify the cryptographic signature on the read-write firmware.

After the read-only firmware verifies and runs the read-write firmware, the latter performs a similar verification operation on the operating system kernel before running it. The operating system kernel will then continue the verification process as it loads all of the system software, like Chrome.

The goal of Verified Boot is to provide cryptographic assurances that the system code hasnâ(TM)t been modified by an attacker on the Chromebook. Additionally, we use lockable, non-volatile memory (NVRAM) in the TPM to ensure that outdated signatures wonâ(TM)t be accepted. To put this into perspective, the system does all this in about 8 seconds.

If you don't want to boot Google-verified software â" let's say you built your own version of Chromium OS â" no problem. You can flip the developer switch on your device and use the Chromebook however you'd like.

URL:http://chrome.blogspot.com/2011/07/chromebook-security-browsing-more.html?

Re:Crap Sour Grapes

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the middle of the Google gauntlet, and I'll tell you this: they've definitely entered the phase where they're more worried about credentials instead of experience and proven track records.

They hired all the veterans early on. Now they either hire college graduates from the top schools, or ex-coworkers from Amazon, Apple, etc. In other words, the incumbents are developing a bunker mentality---hire the non-threatening kids, or your non-threatening friends.

It's far easier to get into Apple or Yahoo, the former because of the rapid expansion, and the latter because they can't afford to be too selective. At Google and even Amazon, unless you're a C++ or Java developer, you're name is mud. This is a function of the inbreeding, and the fact that so many of the new hires are young---in the last 5 years anybody coming out of the university thinks the world revolves around either C++ or Java. It's counterintuitive, because Google and Amazon are well known for using different languages. But they earned that reputation years ago. They've grown since, and those communities are backwaters, now.

Its main market is in business notebooks and PCs

[Anonymous Coward]

what non-IT office workers normally do on their notebooks? Web, outlook, and office suite. Google covers all hardware, software, and IT infra, with much less cost, compared to typical Windows environment. Moreover, this thing is easily replacable, because nothing is in there except the OS. Yours is broken? No problem. Go get a new one from a help desk. You're fired? yours will be used by your replacement the next day.
for me, i think this is the begining of the end of MS's era in their lucrative business market.

This battle...

[wzinc]

This battle brought to you by Webvan and Pets.com.

And...

[dude1232]

It tracks all your browsing history and sends it back to Google! :) http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php

Re:And...

[syockit]

The story of Iron: http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/notes/2009/12/iron.html where the developer confesses the motive for developing Iron.

Here's a blogpost dissecting the comparison: http://insanitybit.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/srware-iron-browser-a-real-private-alternative-to-chrome-21/

The "use" case for this device

[SmallFurryCreature]

Use it as a drop-and-forget device to give to those members of your family/friend circle who can't be trusted/don't need a full window install.

I know it is hard to believe but for some people, all they need is something that runs a browser and then a browser on a OS that isn't vulnerable to all the malware and other crap known to invest the Windows.

As for it being always on and peoples complaints the carriers are cutting data plans... there are lots of people who have no need for a laptop everywhere, a laptop is used NOT to carry around but for easy folding away when it isn't used so it doesn't clash with the rest of the room. Small, safe device that can be taken out and put on the kitchen counter for catching up with email, see pictures of the grandkids on facebook, play an online browser game or two and then stores away again. All for a price that won't break the bank and won't require constant support from ungrateful grandkids.

Not every new device is intended for consumption by nerds.

Re:The "use" case for this device

[Luthair]

I agree, I think this sounds like the first Chromebook device that fulfills the promise of an inexpensive device. While I haven't used one, my suspicion is that we aren't quite there yet with the offline applications for people traveling, but probably most of what my relatives would use one for is to keep in contact which requires the net anyway.

I think the big question mark would be Skype.

Re:The "use" case for this device

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know for sure, but I would expect it to handle Google Talk voice/video / Google+ hangouts, which is a workable replacement for Skype.

Re:The "use" case for this device

[swillden]

I think the big question mark would be Skype.

Google+ Hangouts work perfectly on the x86 Chromebooks I've used (including the one I'm typing this on). I would expect they'll work just fine on the ARM devices as well. And Hangout is better than Skype anyway; equal quality, just as easy to set up, but more flexible (multi-user, invite-by-phone, Hangout On Air for broadcasting and/or recording, schedulable via Google+ Events, integration with Docs, plus lots of add-on apps).

Re:The "use" case for this device

[Anonymous Coward]

Only ONE problem with that plan: who the fuck uses google+??

Re:The "use" case for this device

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree and would add one more case: students in a k-12 public school. Traditional MS Windows installs are harder to maintain and students rarely do anything that you cannot do on Google Docs or GMail already. Sure, some students or teachers need special programs - I am an ESL teacher and have software that requires MS Windows, for example - but for most of the staff and students, most of the time, Chromebooks are not at all a bad idea. A 2:1 or 4:1 ratio (for example) of Chromebooks to regular MS Windows laptops instead of all MS Windows laptops can have significant savings in IT staff productivity alone.

Price comes in also when you consider how clueless some students can be. Cart full of laptops that gets moved room to room? Several students will do their papers in MS Word and then save to "My Documents" on the local, C, drive instead of the network drive. How to find it again? Log in to as many laptops as necessary from that cart (hope it wasn't one of the other laptop carts!) until they find their papers again. Admittedly, this scenario only affects the bottom line in terms of lost productivity from your IT staff and wasted time in the classroom.

More directly, Chromebooks, if cheaper than regular laptops, can be more easily replaced, and you may not believe some of the things students will do to laptops. (Think Twinkie smashed between the screen and the keyboard by closing the lid on it and you will have begun thinking like a student.)

Theft deterrent is another plus - knowledgeable thieves likely won't bother with Chromebooks. Keep some MacBooks around if you want to attract thieves.

Anyhow, don't underestimate the value of Chromebook-type computers in k-12 education. (And, I would say, don't overestimate the value of iPad or other tablet devices in education, but that is another rant.)

Re:The "use" case for this device

[Anonymous Coward]

How about using a dozen of them to stock a hacker/maker-space for after-school tutoring, workshops, and projects? With remote desktop web app to access servers, and local usb boot of linux, I don't see what features it is missing for kids. Nice price point.

Re:Its main market is in business notebooks and PC

[swillden]

what non-IT office workers normally do on their notebooks? Web, outlook, and office suite.

That's what I do on my Chromebook. I use my desktop to write code, but the Chromebook is what I cart around to meetings, take to the couch to work on design docs and spreadsheets, do e-mail on, do presentations, etc. Works great. Especially since it has 3G and so works lots of places a normal laptop wouldn't.

It's about the tech support

[icknay]

The next time your are fixing some relative's or co-worker's machine .. think about if maybe everyone would be better off if they had a chromebook. The point of these things is that, if you just limit things to the web, you can make a very secure, reliable, no-brainer type machine. It can't do everything, but jeez, it sure can do a lot of what most regular people use their computers for, and that's just going to become more with HTML5 et al. Or a business could hand them out for employees who need some web app to do their jobs. You just have your login to the app (google hosted, or somebody else .. it all works), and if they break the machine, you just hand them another one. Data is cached on the device, but the real data is the cloud. The software on the device is designed deeply to be very secure (easier since it does so much less) so it should be much less vulnerable to "infection" the way a more general computers are. Android and iOS are trying to not be vulnerable to malware, but it's so much harder when stuff can get installed. The chromebook does not have a native software "install" .. it's just the web, so it's a lot easier to nail down right.

Re:It's about the tech support

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, maybe this is a good thing the land of intercept and alleged always available bandwidth, but I live in a country that takes privacy actually seriously and that may be in the process of giving Google a new reason to issue a profit warning. In addition, "always" on is a myth when it comes to connectivity when you're traveling so the device would be next to useless to even if the privacy concerns were NOT self evident.

The *only* services of Google I'd go near is the thing that they were good at before they introduced sponsored result: searching. And maybe Google Maps or Google Earth (where Streetview also raises massive privacy questions - why can you zoom in on the windows of a house?). But nothing that requires an account, which would entail them forcing me to agree to share information I do not want to share (case in point: any Android phone).

So, no. Nor will I recommend this to anyone else who has real computer needs.

Re:Its main market is in business notebooks and PC

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally to me it looks like more google floundering, they really are struggling to get more than just search advertising. Android has succeeded but failed to bring in much revenue. This is really just another lackluster thin client, Even MS has a better option with Windows to Go, especially with the "bring your own device" fad that is currently rampant. If anything this looks more like google showing they really don't get it.

Garbage Machine

[Anonymous Coward]

What does a chromebook do? I'm not being mean. I'd like to know. Google's site is as mysterious as Mitt Romney's plethora of 5 point plans. What software will run on it. What can I expect to use in common with the computer on my desk?

Is it just a bigger tablet with an external keyboard?

Re:Garbage Machine

[Anonymous Coward]

think of it as a cheap crappy version of apples walled garden but with less features, bugger all local apps, more advertising and worse performance. basically they have managed to achieve the worst of all worlds in one machine.

What about proper linux support?

[coder111]

On top of that, can I wipe whatever Google OS it is running and install Debian or Red-Hat or Ubuntu? What about open-source GPU drivers? We can get that for Intel (good drivers) and AMD (OK drivers) and even some Nvidia GPUs (still experimental) on normal laptops. While Linux drivers for GPUs used in ARM machines are mostly closed source crap.

--Coder

Re:What about proper linux support?

[UpnAtom]

Previous Chromebooks have been unlockable:
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132300-unleash-your-chromebox-how-to-dual-boot-ubuntu-linux-on-your-chrome-os-device

Since the Nexus 7 is unlockable too, there's a good chance this will be.

Re:What about proper linux support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct, it is unlockable. It's in the design spec for Chrome devices. Google will not sell you a locked device. You buy it, you own it.

(unofficially from a member of the Chrome OS team)

Why are there no Linux netbooks? Microsoft

[coder111]

I read rumors on the net that on the year when a lot of manufacturers announced ARM netbooks, Microsoft went and threatened them with cutting Windows licensing (or something) if they start selling those. So none of these devices actually went to market. People even saw things like Microsoft reps visiting manufacturer's booths in an expo, and ARM netbooks disappearing from the stands soon after.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push
You can probably find more.

--Coder

Re:Why are there no Linux netbooks? Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

yes I am sure that is what really happened and it had nothing to do with dismal sales for netbooks and all of these threatened OEM's all kept quiet rather than revealing it and getting MS slammed by the courts for breaking the law. Where the fuck do these ridiculous tinfoil hat wearing crowd come from, it does explain how aliens running the government and faked moon landing conspircy theories manage to flourish I guess.

Re:Why are there no Linux netbooks? Microsoft

[Maritz]

http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push You can probably find more. --Coder

If this is V Microsoft Strikes Back then we've got Return of the Chromebooks here. Don't worry I'm appropriately ashamed.

ChromeOS should die already

[DrXym]

It hasn't captured any interest and it actively conflicts with Android in the tablet space. The best bits should be moved into Android and the rest should be done away with.

Looks just like an MacBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does it look just like a MacBook ?

Faux alu body, white text on black keys, power button in exactly the
same place, Trackpad with no buttons, bevel cut out for opening the lid exactly
the same.

I know imitation is the sincerest for of flattery, but isn't this taking it a bit too far?

-court case pending

Shameless Copy

[sometext]

Visually this Chromebook is a pretty egregious copy of the Macbook Air. On a side note, the Surface is also a pretty shameless copy of the iPad. I'm not saying it's right that Apple sues them, but the designers who drew this thing up should be ashamed of themselves. If I wanted an Apple product I would buy one, the lack of originality these companies are showing is robbing us of possible innovations. Sources: I'm an Industrial Designer

The new internet appliances

[clay_shooter]

I agree. We have one linux laptop on the cocktail table that does nothing but browse the internet and create google docs. We don't need big local storage or an OS with a large security footprint. That is the machine we throw in a backpack when we travel.

Re:Its main market is in business notebooks and PC

[Anonymous Coward]

A LOT of office workers need to run some specific software, either in house developed, 3rd party solutions, or off the shelf products that expect to be installed on a real computer, not just email, and a document editor.

And MS is pushing really hard in the cloud computing space. There is no reason they couldn't roll out a similar product built around office 365.

Motorola Xoom

[Trax3001BBS]

I haven't seen one mention of it in this discussion.

It's Google's answer to the ipad, Kindle, and others. There are even sites
dedicated to them http://www.xoomforums.com/forum/ yet not one
mention of one. Me thinks the market is saturated in many tablet related areas

The Xoom being better (as I see it) than the Chromebook but at twice the price (retail).
I do like the fact the Chromebook will play just about any media (it claims all).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Xoom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook
(Wikipedia hasn't been updated)

Yes, I have a Motorola Xoom, I tell folks it's an ipad as it stops the questioning looks.
Keyboard? I have a BlueTooth keyboard from some second hand store, by themselves take
up very little space.

Re:Motorola Xoom

[Anonymous Coward]

What? I've seen one. I found it slow and clunky. Maybe your model is improved. I don't know why you wouldn't just say "tablet" though, when people ask. Those of us with brains will probably just shy away because we can see it's not an iPad...

Re:Motorola Xoom

[Trax3001BBS]

What? I don't know why you wouldn't just say "tablet" though, when people ask.

Cause the next question is normally "what kind". At that point I'll use the Amazon Kindle to explain
it more in depth to those who really want to know or show an interest in it.

Motorola Xoom's wow factor is while talking to someone about it you ask "what's 32 divided by 4",
and a female voice comes back "32 divided by 4 is 8" - every single person has said "oh, you have Siri".

Google and the ISP business

[DragonWriter]

So I just don't see how Google's plans work out long term unless they want to get into the ISP and carrier business

Not only does Google "want to get into" the ISP business, Google is in the ISP business, with the leading edge of that being the Google Fiber deployment in Kansas City. As far as wireless, there is a reason that Google was one of the big movers pushing the FCC to open up spectrum "white spaces" left by the digital TV conversion to data use, and (successfully) competed to become one of the "white spaces" administrators when the FCC did decide to open that spectrum.

it's a chromebook dummy

[thelogenator]

The Chromebook is great but you have to appreciate it for what it is rather that what it isn't. It is a simple simple, low cost device that most people can accomplish 99% of their normal web tasks on. Browsing the web, email, google docs, facebook etc. It is not a gaming machine or a music device or a graphics workstation. It's a $250 dollar web appliance you can throw in the trunk of your car and take everywhere with you. It requires no maintenance, updating, virus scanning or backups. All your files are synced to your google account so you could smash it to pieces if you wanted and when you log onto another Cromebook you pick up exactly where you left off. I toss mine in the trunk of my car so I have access to a computer and ssh everywhere I go. I'd rather this low cost device get stolen rather than my $1,700 MacBook. My old CR48 Chromebook is the first computer I grab when I'm watching TV or need to shoot off a quick email. I'm much rather boot this thing up in 8 seconds and type away rather than send an email on my phone, or iPad or wait for my laptop to boot. It augments your normal computing environment, it's not a replacement for it.