Mars Rover Solves Metallic Object Mystery, Unearths Another

SchrodingerZ writes "Last week the Mars Curiosity Rover spotted a shiny metallic-looking object in the martian soil. This week scientists have confirmed that it is plastic that has fallen off the 1-ton rover. However, the discovery of this trans-planetary littering has opened up another mystery for the science team. On October 12th the rover took a sample of soil from the ground, feeding it into its Chemistry and Mineralogy (CheMin) instruments for analysis, and a picture of the hole dug by the rover's claw revealed metallic particles in the dirt. The sample was subsequently dropped due to fears that particles from the rover had made it into the dirt. Further study now suggests that the metallic particles are actually native to Mars, as the photo reveals that they are embedded in the soil in clumps. In 2007 the older rover Spirit found evidence of silica for the first time, more testing will occur over the next few days to determine truly if this is again just Curiosity's littler, or something more profound."

Comments

Crossing my fingers

[The Grim Reefer]

I hope it finds massive amounts of palladium, iridium or some mix of rare metals. Nothing would kick-start a race to Mars like greed. Unfortunately.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> Nothing would kick-start a race to Mars like greed.

Well, that and the opportunity to litter.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[Baloroth]

Getting it back to Earth would cost far more than it's worth. Better to discover it in an asteroid.

With the technology we have now, yes. The point would be to develop better technology to make it cost effective, and you can bet some companies would at least try.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[The Grim Reefer]

As well as possibly an underground lost civilization with ghosts and monsters n' shit.

Hopefully that big ass oxygen reactor is still working after all these years.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[Dan East]

I hope it finds massive amounts of palladium, iridium or some mix of rare metals. Nothing would kick-start a race to Mars like greed. Unfortunately.

So by "Unfortunately" do you mean that the only reason we should go to the incredible expense and risk of visiting other planets is for purely academic or intellectual purposes? Is there anything of actual value to our planet Earth that we can glean from pure knowledge (and knowledge alone) of Mars? Say we learn more about the history of Mars. Humanity applies that information in exactly what way to better our species or improve our planet in some way?

At the end of the day, for it to be worthwhile beyond the science that we are doing right this minute with rovers, there has to be something of value on Mars. Real, tangible value. Materials that are rare on earth, a stopover for energy to reach other parts of the Solar System and beyond, a low gravity place to make materials that we can't produce on Earth, or even a "lifeboat" for humanity - at the end of the day there has to be something a step beyond just knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[Rei]

The advantage isn't taking metals back. It's using them on Mars. If there really is even just metallic iron, that'd be a HUGE benefit for colonization. Trivial to mine (scoop dust, blow over rotating magnetic collector), trivial to process (I once sketched out the resource chains to run a blast furnace on Mars and it's just staggering - if this is metallic iron and it's pure enough to be structurally sound if simply melted and cast, it'd be huge deal).

If it applies to metals other than iron, all the more the benefit. Anything you can do to reduce the massive resource chains needed by modern tech could be a godsend for actual colonization.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[Gothmolly]

It's not greed, it's simple math. No animal expends energy unless it can be reasonably sure the reward is more energy.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[drinkypoo]

So by "Unfortunately" do you mean that the only reason we should go to the incredible expense and risk of visiting other planets is for purely academic or intellectual purposes? Is there anything of actual value to our planet Earth that we can glean from pure knowledge (and knowledge alone) of Mars? Say we learn more about the history of Mars. Humanity applies that information in exactly what way to better our species or improve our planet in some way?

Probably you should read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars and see what the character Ann has to say about it before your next comment along these lines.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[mpoulton]

I once sketched out the resource chains to run a blast furnace on Mars and it's just staggering - if this is metallic iron and it's pure enough to be structurally sound if simply melted and cast, it'd be huge deal.

Well, it's a pretty big deal just to melt and cast iron when you're on a foreign planet with no life and CO2 for an atmosphere. And making modern useful things out of iron actually requires steel alloys, which means having other metals available and being able to control carbon content of the melt. When there's no fuel on the planet, that means you must use electric power. It takes HUGE amounts of power to run an arc furnace, and moderately use amounts to run an induction furnace. Millions of watts either way. That's a lot of solar panels to haul to Mars.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[Lehk228]

mirrors, made from steel panels a giant solar hotdog roaster

Re:Crossing my fingers

[ColdWetDog]

Well, that and the opportunity to litter.

The word you're looking for is terraforming. Makes it sound all scientificy.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[ColdWetDog]

What's the stock ticker for the Weyland-Yutani corporation?

Re:Crossing my fingers

[FatLittleMonkey]

The advantage isn't taking metals back. It's using them on Mars. If there really is even just metallic iron, that'd be a HUGE benefit for colonization.

However, without trade, the colony will always be dependent on its parent nation. And that's not really a colony, it's just an outpost. A really expensive outpost.

The advantage with asteroids (and to some extent lunar development), is that you can serve other markets. Even if it's not cost effective to bring the product back to Earth, as long as it's cheaper than launching from Earth, there should be a small but growing market for in-orbit delivery. Starting with fuel, then air/water, then bulk shielding and crude structures, and developing through more complex manufactured materials. And each stage also feeds back on itself, if you can supply fuel cheaper than Earth-launch, you lower your own running costs, and make whole new activities possible in space which creates whole new markets...

Such a process, once started, should then develop naturally, with each stage paying for itself and creating a market for the next stage; without requiring constant funding through traditional space agencies. [Although it will also give space agencies more bang for their buck. As well as making space exploration easier to justify to the average voter, and the very average politicians.] Until one day you read about how many people permanently live in space, and you realise that we are finally genuinely out there.

Mars won't do that. It will always be a "program", a drain. Historically, colonies like that always fail.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[ColdWetDog]

Really? Every worthy human endeavor needs to make money?

What an unpleasant and shallow philosophy you have there.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[10101001 10101001]

So by "Unfortunately" do you mean that the only reason we should go to the incredible expense and risk of visiting other planets is for purely academic or intellectual purposes?

Nice strawman, there. I mean, it's good to know that to scoff at greed is equivalent to be interested in something "for purely academic or intellectual purposes". Perhaps the scoffing has something to do with the fact that greed as a motivator to do things has all sorts of very negative side-effects--economic bubbles are a big one. Or perhaps it has to do with the point that a view that moderation is a good thing and liable to produce much more desirable long-term results while greed tends to, in focusing on being an end unto itself, be an almost pointless exercise a lot of the time.

Is there anything of actual value to our planet Earth that we can glean from pure knowledge (and knowledge alone) of Mars?

That's a pretty good begging the question. If you don't view "knowledge alone" as something "of actual value to our planet Earth", then there's little point in asking the question because no response that could be given would be acceptable to you. It entirely ignores that there are people who do, obviously, see value in knowledge alone and that a trip to Mars focused on expansion of humanity into the cosmos would be more than a pure knowledge expedition and not a greed motivated one.

Say we learn more about the history of Mars. Humanity applies that information in exactly what way to better our species or improve our planet in some way?

Are you serious? The very fact that Mars once had an atmosphere, once had [possibly flowing] water, was once possibly habitable, etc and yet now lacks those things means its precisely a very good potential model of what Earth may become in the distant future. Knowing this and specifically examining what is left on Mars may do very much to help us figure out either to cope with those risks or to even entirely avoid them realizing that Mars is a cautionary tale of what may happen if humanity does nothing--although odds are good, humanity won't be around by then. In short, we'd be able to learn from the history of Mars just like how we learn from our own history, to use as a guide of what has and could happen to decide on what to do to avoid bad things from happening again.

At the end of the day, for it to be worthwhile beyond the science that we are doing right this minute with rovers, there has to be something of value on Mars. Real, tangible value.

At the end of the day, the real question is what one places value on. Is it shiny trinkets and beads? Or is it one's life to enjoy those shiny trinkets and beads? And if one is forward thinking enough to recognize this, maybe one may be forward thinking enough to consider one's grand children or great grand children and just exactly what steps are necessary, in general, for the survival of humanity. But, you know, that all depends on if you see any value in humanity.

Materials that are rare on earth, a stopover for energy to reach other parts of the Solar System and beyond, a low gravity place to make materials that we can't produce on Earth, or even a "lifeboat" for humanity - at the end of the day there has to be something a step beyond just knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

Rare on Earth materials? Quite pointless except for a Mars colony itself. Stopover for energy for other pats of the Solar System and beyond? Not really sensical in any way since a free-floating platform would be actually maneuverable and would avoid almost all the escape velocity concerns. Low gravity for making materials? Uh...why not LEO and whatever gravity as needed through rotation instead of flying all the way to Mars and back? "Lifeboat" for humanity? Pretty well outside the scope of reasonable given the shear scope of reach to make Mar

Re:Crossing my fingers

[SteelCat]

The Martian Chronicles, starring Rock Hudson and based on the stories by Ray Bradbury.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[slashping]

If you're willing to invoke magic technology, why not get excited about old banana peels ? We only need better technology to turn those into precious metals.

Re:Crossing my fingers

[gmanterry]

It's a wonder so few people actually realize that introducing a massive supply of *insert rare thing here* makes that thing non-rare, bringing down cost.

Like Diamonds?

traveling wherever

[Onymous Coward]

Might I recommend, as much as is possible, pack your trash.

Re:traveling wherever

[Longjmp]

Might I recommend, as much as is possible, pack your trash.

On the contrary. If I had the chance to go to Mars today, I'd take with me:
A recent newspaper, a can of beer and a half-eaten sandwich.

Then I'd place them somewhere were Curiosity was likely to spot it, and return to Earth silently.

And probably run around with a huge grin on my face for the rest of my life.

Gold!

[bware]

Nuggets the size of your fist! Don't tell anyone!

There. That always works to get the next territory settled.

Re:Gold!

[wonkey_monkey]

Nuggets the size of your fist! Don't tell anyone!

If your nuggets are the size of your fist, you should probably tell your doctor.

Re:Gold!

[demonbug]

Nuggets the size of your fist! Don't tell anyone!

There. That always works to get the next territory settled.

What's the equivalent of jeans on Mars? Better start investing now...

Re:Every hiker knows...

[AaronLS]

I'm sure there's fragments from the sole of your hiking boats everywhere you've been, and little pieces of plastic from gear that's broken off without you even noticing ;)

how about ...

[jest3r]

Drive the rover as far away from the Mars Garbage Gyre as possible before sampling the soil.

Otherwise it's like taking a dump in your own back yard and gardening it in.

Re:how about ...

[Master Moose]

I call that sustainable living.

Parts falling off?

[PPH]

Are they sure it isn't a Land Rover?

Re:Parts falling off?

[cyberworm]

They are sure. Its not leaking oil.

Re:You know what it is

[tragedy]

Avatar didn't invent "Unobtainium". The precise origin is unknown, but it goes back at least to the 1950's and has been traditionally used as a stand in for any material that has all the desired properties for an application (strength, weight, heat resistance, etc.) but that doesn't actually exist. So it's not called "Unobtainium" because it's virtually unobtainable, but because it just plain doesn't exist. Movies seem to have picked it up as a MacGuffin. It was used for the magical material the drill was made of in _The Core_ for example.

Bad summary.

[Anonymous Coward]

Curiosity did not reveal "metallic particles in the dirt." As the linked article states, it found "bright" particles. Bright does not mean metal!