No Microbes In First Sample From Lake Vostok

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No Microbes In First Sample From Lake Vostok

Posted by Soulskill on Friday October 19, 2012 @02:48AM from the what-about-ancient-sea-monsters dept.

ananyo writes "A first analysis of the ice that froze onto the drillbit used in last February's landmark drilling to a pristine Antarctic lake shows no native microbes came up with the lake water, according to Sergey Bulat of Petersburg Nuclear Physics Institute (Russia). The very uppermost layer of Lake Vostock appears to be 'lifeless' so far, says Bulat, but that doesn't mean the rest of it is. Bulat and his colleagues counted the microbes present in the ice sample and checked their genetic makeup to figure out the phylotypes. They counted fewer than 10 microbes/ml — about the same magnitude they would expect to find in the background in their clean room."

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Davidoff.... by vikingpower · 2012-10-19 02:51 · Score: 2, Funny

...will now buy the lake, for its water to serve as the main and sole ingredient in its "Cool Water" perfume.

--
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
1. Re:Davidoff.... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-10-19 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  ...or you could probably sell it as a 100% natural laxative.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
Not fooled by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 03:02 · Score: 0, Funny

Humans are involved, so something EVIL must be going on! I refuse to believe they aren't raping some delicate ecosystem and I demand full civil rights be afforded ANY microbe adversely affected by this sinister activity! And now, if you please, I need to finish watching FernGully for the 4th time today followed by reruns of Captain Planet.
1. Re:Not fooled by RobbieCrash · 2012-10-19 03:08 · Score: 2
  
  Good point, we should just rush in to things like this assuming there's nothing that could go wrong. What could possibly go wrong with that plan!
  
  --
  Keep on knockin'
  https://robbiecrash.me
2. Re:Not fooled by Lumpy · 2012-10-19 03:45 · Score: 0
  
  Microbe rape? did you just invoke internet rule number 35?
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
3. Re:Not fooled by plover · 2012-10-19 04:06 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  You could watch the original Fern Gully, but I also like the 2009 remake, "Avatar".
  Seriously, line them up. They're both animated movies about a foreign environment, rich in resources valuable to humans. You've got a human male protagonist, who is originally a member of the first wave of humans planning to harvest the natural resources without concern for the natives. Through some external technical wizardry, protagonist changes size and ends up in the middle of the new environment, where he meets a beautiful native female. As the human initially navigates his way around the environment with his new size and point of view, predictably comedic results occur. Overconfidence quickly leads him in over his head into a near-fatal situation, where the native female uses her intimate knowledge of the environment to rescue him from his own ineptitude. The male is attracted to the female, who rejects him. Over time the human discovers the previously ignored beauty of the ecosystem and learns to respect the environment; which enables the female to grow attracted to him. The female is conflicted, though, and consults with her wise parent, an important elder of the natives. The human continues to learn the native ways, culminating with taming and flying on the native flying animals. The massive wave of normal sized humans then arrive in giant machines to harvest the resources. The movies climax when the protagonist fully changes sides and defends the environment from the encroaching humans, using his knowledge of the human systems and ways to organize the natives to defeat the invaders. The female finally acknowledges her love of the male.
  Even the scenery is the same. Both movies have large trees that are important to the natives. Both feature loops of stone reminiscent of magnetic flux lines.
  The only thing missing from Avatar is the Robin Williams character, Batty. The human sidekick in Avatar isn't nearly as humorous.
  
  --
  John
4. Re:Not fooled by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 04:09 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  How long have you been waiting for someone to mention Fern Gully on Slashdot?
5. Re:Not fooled by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 04:20 · Score: 0
  
  And the older(newer?) remake Pocahontas.
6. Re:Not fooled by nedlohs · 2012-10-19 04:50 · Score: 2
  
  Wow that's highly original. No one has ever noticed that before, well other than all the people who ranted about it in 2009 of course.
7. Re:Not fooled by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe you missed the part where Jake, the "hero" of Avatar only succeeds in getting everyone killed, and that it's can't see what's actually there, right in front of them. It's lampshaded in the scene with Grace trying to tell Corporate Dickbag Dude about how Eywa is a planet-scale mind residing in a neural network in the trees, and all he can grasp is "stupid tree-hugging hippies hate me for making money!"
  It's also aptly demonstrated by all the dorks on the internet who can't see the Navi, or Eywa, or the movie itself for what it is, and instead can only see Dances with Smurfs, because South Park told them so.
8. Re:Not fooled by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  Well fuck, somehow my post got mangled. Let's try this again.
  Maybe you missed the part where Jake, the "hero" of Avatar only succeeds in getting everyone killed, and that it's Grace that's the real hero of the film. When she gets uploaded, she helps Eywa to understand the invaders and their tech, and rally its planetary resources to repel them like an immune system. Pandora is not the primitive place you think; it's built on an incredibly advanced bio-technology.
  On of the major themes of Avatar that people often overlook is about how people often only see what they expect to see, and can't see what's actually there, right in front of them. It's lampshaded in the scene with Grace trying to tell Corporate Dickbag Dude about how Eywa is a planet-scale mind residing in a neural network in the trees, and all he can grasp is "stupid tree-hugging hippies hate me for making money!"
  It's also aptly demonstrated by all the dorks on the internet who can't see the Navi, or Eywa, or the movie itself for what it is, and instead can only see Dances with Smurfs, because South Park told them so.
9. Re:Not fooled by P-niiice · 2012-10-19 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  I thought it resembled John Carpenter's "The Thing".
10. Re:Not fooled by ChatHuant · 2012-10-19 05:56 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  so something EVIL must be going on!
  
  Yeah, I think the right question is: what lurks there under the sleeping waters of lake Vostok that ate EVEN the microbes?
  Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtag'n!
11. Re:Not fooled by plover · 2012-10-19 06:03 · Score: 2
  
  What, you didn't see the resemblance when you watched Avatar?
  I think maybe Fern Gully just stuck with me more because it was one of the first movies I took my son to.
  
  --
  John
12. Re:Not fooled by R3d+M3rcury · 2012-10-19 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe you missed the part where Jake, the "hero" of Avatar only succeeds in getting everyone killed [...]
  Jake didn't really seem to be imparting too much of his knowledge of Human weaponry to the Navi--or helping them plan strategy. The Navi ground attack was particularly ridiculous in my eyes--you guys are good at running around the trees, but everybody is going to attack from the ground? Who's bright idea was that?
  There are two deleted scenes from the DVD which were interesting. In one, Tsu'tey is talking to Jake about how the humans have no honor because they use their machine guns and rockets from far away rather than getting up close and personal. Of course, Bill Maher got fired from ABC for saying something like that. So the idea that they might hide in the trees and snipe might not be honorable to them. There's another scene where Trudy is explaining to a bunch of Navi where the vulnerable points on the helicopter are (while various Navi are painting her helicopter). So, in theory, there was some communication. On the other hand, she was talking about how to disable the helicopter and the Navi seemed to be aiming for the pilots.
  So it could possibly be inferred that Jake was more the inspirational spiritual leader and less the actual tactical leader.
  Random aside, it's worth renting the extended DVD for the deleted scenes. There's a bit you see in the trailers where that "control center" gets attacked and you get to see how that actually worked out.
13. Re:Not fooled by Chickan · 2012-10-19 06:51 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I think AC's statement was addressing how long winded your response was. While I do not disagree with your thesis, your argument was quite thorough for a simple comparison. This leads AC and myself to believe you've spent a LOT of time thinking about this. Carry on.
14. Re:Not fooled by Dishevel · 2012-10-19 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  You could watch the original Fern Gully, but I also like the 2009 remake, "Avatar".
  I thought Avatar was a remake of "Dances with Wolves"
  
  --
  Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
15. Re:Not fooled by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 07:58 · Score: 0
  
  On of the major themes of Avatar that people often overlook is about how people often only see what they expect to see, and can't see what's actually there, right in front of them. It's lampshaded in the scene with Grace trying to tell Corporate Dickbag Dude about how Eywa is a planet-scale mind residing in a neural network in the trees, and all he can grasp is "stupid tree-hugging hippies hate me for making money!"
  We're nerds. We're probably the only ones who remembered playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.
16. Re:Not fooled by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 11:09 · Score: 0
  
  Spoilers!!!! Where are the spoilers ????? That movie was on my list !
17. Re:Not fooled by Adam+Appel · 2012-10-21 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  I noticed this about a year ago when my kids were watching Fern Gully. They are almost exactly the same movie.
  
  --
  They come in the dark, only in the darkest.
they are going about this all wrong by circletimessquare · 2012-10-19 03:08 · Score: 4, Funny

they should be piping this water out for the high end bottled water market
"No Microbes In First Sample From Lake Vostok" is of course then the ultimate marketing tool
$9.99 for a 32 oz frosted white glass bottle with images of a pristine Antarctic mountain range.
Hire me Coca Cola!

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
1. Re:they are going about this all wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 05:51 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  This is a case where "Good Enough" is not good enough.
  Looking for microbes, any microbes, the clean room must be made a sterile room, Class 0, with zero possibility of contamination. In this case, it's doubtful they even tried to get as close as possible.
  Microbes observed can be compared to microbes known in the testing environment. A similar process is used in Class 10 and better semiconductor clean rooms to evaluate and investigate contamination sources. An thorough DNA and RNA comparison would tell them where the microbes found most likely came from. Nothing mentioned suggests that was done.
  If they are only concerned with statistics and not with real facts, they wouldn't bother with any of that. Statistics, in addition to politics and greed, has replaced real science. Real science is hard, tedious, boring work. Statistics is far easier and perfectly suited for the lazy and negligent.
  But then again, they may be hiding the truth because of political pressure, greed or something.
  The science renaissance is over. Science is institutionalized and controlled by the powerful. Same as government, society and religion.
Nutrients by Jeng · 2012-10-19 03:13 · Score: 2

So what exactly do they suspect these bacteria have been eating down there in the deep dark cold?

--
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
1. Re:Nutrients by fustakrakich · 2012-10-19 03:23 · Score: 2
  
  each other
  
  --
  “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
2. Re:Nutrients by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 03:25 · Score: 0
  
  Anything spewed up by hypothetical hydrothermal vents on the bottom of the lake.
3. Re:Nutrients by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 03:29 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  They're expecting to get more microbes from the sediment at the bottom of the lake. Sediments are comparatively stuffed with nutrients, and the lack of light and cold aren't much of a problem (there is probably stuff growing at the bottom of the Mariana Trench, just very slowly).
4. Re:Nutrients by ColdWetDog · 2012-10-19 03:43 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  So what exactly do they suspect these bacteria have been eating down there in the deep dark cold?
  Cthulhu has been feeding them bits of the Snickers bar he was given as campaign contribution... Or perhaps he's been feeding them bits of the campaign contributors themselves.
  But seriously, a background of 10 critters / cc isn't all that 'clean' and
  
  Bulat and his colleagues counted the microbes present in the ice sample and checked their genetic makeup to figure out the phylotypes. They counted fewer than 10 microbes/ml — about the same magnitude they would expect to find in the background in their clean room. And three of the four phylotypes they identified matched contaminants from the drilling oil, with the fourth unknown but also most likely from the lubricant.
  points to one of the bigger concerns about this experiment - you are going to contaminate the lake at this point as the drilling technology is pretty primitive - basically pouring hot water into a hole.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
5. Re:Nutrients by circletimessquare · 2012-10-19 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  magnetic field lines
  
  --
  intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
6. Re:Nutrients by Capt.Albatross · 2012-10-19 03:53 · Score: 2
  
  I think they are simply saying that the count is not statistically significant, as it is at about the background level of the clean room they are working in, and three of the four types identified match contaminants on the equipment.
7. Re:Nutrients by Jeng · 2012-10-19 04:19 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, and the reason that there is not a significant amount of bacteria in a clean room is because there is nothing for them to eat.
  So really this shouldn't be a surprise since one should ask, if there are no nutrients in the water why should we expect there to be bacteria there?
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
8. Re:Nutrients by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 04:22 · Score: 0
  
  Great question. Perhaps thats what they are searching for?
9. Re:Nutrients by plover · 2012-10-19 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  The article is concluding that there are zero microbes down there, so any nutrients present would be irrelevant.
  The article states that the 10 microbes per mL figure is likely due to contaminants being carried down on the drill or present in the measuring equipment, because it is similar to the levels found in a clean room environment.
  
  --
  John
10. Re:Nutrients by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 04:25 · Score: 0
  
  Yo momma's pussy.
11. Re:Nutrients by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 06:04 · Score: 0
  
  Why would they use drilling oil this time?
  That just seems so bloody stupid and mission adverse.
12. Re:Nutrients by Turbio · 2012-10-19 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  The article states that the 10 microbes per mL figure is likely due to contaminants being carried down on the drill or present in the measuring equipment, because it is similar to the levels found in a clean room environment.
  My guess is that the unit of measure is wrong. It should be 10 microbes per MICROliter (not milliliter!), as 10000 microbes per microliter is actually very stinky water!!
  Current regulations in Argentina allow for a maximum of 20 microbes per microliter in drinkable water (and zero enterobacteria).
  The problem is that greek letters (eg: mu) are not easily displayed (as in this same post!).
13. Re:Nutrients by Jeng · 2012-10-19 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  The article is concluding that there are zero microbes down there, so any nutrients present would be irrelevant
  
  If there is no food you will not find things eating said food.
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
14. Re:Nutrients by SecurityGuy · 2012-10-19 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  Miscalculation, there.
  10 microbes/ml * 1 ml/1000 ul = 0.01 microbes/ul, not 10,000/ul.
  So yeah, it's probably correct as originally written. I was a little surprised that 10 per ml is clean room levels, though, but I don't work in or near one.
15. Re:Nutrients by Turbio · 2012-10-20 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  How silly I am! My mistake. And my point is weakened, but still valid.
  Regulations in Argentina call for a maximum of "2 microbes / 100 mL". That is 0.02 microbes/ml and is correct (I hope this time it is!).
  So at 10 microbes/ml = 1000 microbes / 100 mL the water from this lake is not allowed for dinking in Argentina.
  I am a biologist working at a molecular biology lab. One test I did on water from a mountain river surrounded only by wildlife had 23 microbes / 100 mL, and that is clearly not a clean room! Another test on very stinky urban runoff water had 800 000 microbes per 100 ml.
  At 1000 microbes / 100 ml, this lake has 43 times more microbes than a mountain river, but 800 times less than very stinky water.
  If instead of ml it were ul, it would be 1 microbe / 100 ml, so it will be safe for dinking (provided there are no fecal coliform bacteria).
16. Re:Nutrients by plover · 2012-10-21 04:37 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I agree with you that number seems off. TFA has a little more insight, though. This is a sample from ice carried back on the drill bit, and they found a total of four microbes on it - three of which matched contamination from the drilling oil, and they suspect the fourth is as well. Maybe they only recovered 0.4 mL of water total - but then, why not report it that way?
  
  --
  John
17. Re:Nutrients by plover · 2012-10-21 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  My mistake too. I just re-read TFA - it's three out of the four phylotypes that matched, not three out of four total microbes.
  
  --
  John
18. Re:Nutrients by SleazyRidr · 2012-10-26 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  As the AC mentioned: why are they using drilling oil and lubricants. I understood that the reason they were drilling a new hole (rather than the one the Russians started) was that they wanted it completely clean, with no oils or lubricants contaminating it.
  Furthermore, if you're ruling out the "unknown" microbe you find as probably being from the lubricant, then what do you hope to achieve with the experiment?
  
  --
  Is 1563649 a prime number?
Steamboy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 03:14 · Score: 1

We should probably take the opportunity to make Steamboy a reality now.
Arrogant Scientists by SgtDink · 2012-10-19 03:25 · Score: 2

Did they not see The Thing? Who knows the dangers in the dark of that lake.
1. Re:Arrogant Scientists by rubycodez · 2012-10-19 04:57 · Score: 2
  
  yes, and all antarctic camps are equipped with a length of copper wire, flamethrower and dynamite for that reason. Anyone refusing the copper wire blood test is incinerated as a precaution
More Importantly? by TheSkepticalOptimist · 2012-10-19 03:30 · Score: 3, Funny

Did they find water on Antarctica?

--
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
1. Re:More Importantly? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-19 03:47 · Score: 0
  
  It's beneath a lot of ice.
2. Re:More Importantly? by Chris+Mattern · 2012-10-19 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  Did they find water on Antarctica?
  Nah, just all this white stuff.
Continued Domininance by 3ryon · 2012-10-19 03:33 · Score: 5, Funny

I for one welcome our continued dominance of Earth.

--
Kind thoughts do not change the world
1. Re:Continued Domininance by davidbrit2 · 2012-10-19 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah! Take that nature! There's plenty more where that came from!
Re:NOT FOLAD by MightyMartian · 2012-10-19 03:45 · Score: 1, Flamebait

So what's it like being a functioning retard?

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Well... (no pun inteded) by davcorp · 2012-10-19 05:18 · Score: 1

... I'm sure there's bacteria down there now from the Drill Bit.... DOH!

--
Gravity!... It's not just a good idea... It's the Law!
1. Re:Well... (no pun inteded) by rogueippacket · 2012-10-19 06:35 · Score: 2
  
  Not quite - they have used tons (literally) of antifreeze and lubricants to achieve these depths, and then a pool of freon and a heated drill tip to breach the lake. These chemicals froze before reaching the lake, and I can't name too many bacteria which would survive the barrage of chemicals/hot/cold temperatures on the way down. So far so good!
Re:NOT FOLAD by xevioso · 2012-10-19 05:34 · Score: 2

I, too, can use the L33T Translator...although the above person seems to have used a tard translator of which I am not aware.
Anyway, to wit:
"Ph0UR 5C0RE 4nD 5EVEN YE4R2 490 0uR pH47HeR2 8r0u9h7 ph0R7H, up0n 7H12 K0n71neN7, 4 nEw n4710N, K0ncE1ved 1N L18ER7y, 4Nd DED1C47Ed 70 7Eh Pr0P051710n 7h47 4LL men r Cre47ed equ4L.
n0w we R EN949eD 1N 4 9re47 C1V1l w4R, 7e571N' whe7HEr 7h47 n4710N, 0r 4Ny n4710n 50 k0NCE1ved, 4Nd 50 Ded1C47Ed, K4n L0n9 EnDuRe. wE r mE7 hERe 0N 4 9rE47 8477LEf1eLd 0F 7H47 W4R. wE h4vE k0Me 70 DEd1C47e 4 P0R710n 0f 17 42 4 Ph1n4L Re571n' pL4CE pH0r 7H02e WH0 HeRe 94Ve 7he1R L1Ve2 7H47 7h47 n4710N M19h7 L1VE. 17 12 4l709e7hER PH1771N' 4Nd pr0PEr 7H47 We 5H0Uld D0 7H12.
8U7 1n 4 l4R9er 5EN2e we k4n N07 dED1c47e - wE K4n N07 K0n5EcR47E - WE K4n n07 H4Ll0W 7h12 9r0und. 7eH 8R4ve MeN, L1v1N' 4nd DE4d, Wh0 57rU99LED, hEre, H4ve K0n5EcR47eD 17 ph4r 480VE 0UR P00r p0weR 70 4Dd 0r de7R4C7. 7EH w0rLD w1LL l177le n07E, N0R L0n9 reMem8er, Wh47 wE 54y HERE, 8u7 k4n neVEr ph0r9e7 WH47 7HeY D1D heRe."
Wait'll They Find ... THE GATE! by saudadelinux · 2012-10-19 06:37 · Score: 1

They'll find plenty of life in Vostok! Bwah-hahahahahahaha!

--
I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
What do you do for a living? by drainbramage · 2012-10-19 07:40 · Score: 1

I might want to hire you to explain thing I've said.
You're probably very busy during the campaign season.
-----
Anyway, well said.

--
No brain, no pain.