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The Virtues of the Virtual Autopsy

Hugh Pickens writes "Maryn McKenna writes in Scientific American that the standard autopsy is becoming increasingly rare for cost reasons, religious objections, and because autopsies reveal medical mistakes, making doctors and hospitals uncomfortable. Researchers in several countries have been exploring the possibility that medical imaging might substitute a 'virtual autopsy' for the more traditional variety. 'So few autopsies are being done now that many medical students get out of school never having seen one,' says Gregory Davis. 'And yet in medicine, autopsy is the most powerful quality-control technique that we have and the reason we know as much as we do about many diseases and injuries.' The process, dubbed 'virtopsy,' combines MRI and CT scanning with computer-aided 3-D reconstruction to prove causes of death for difficult cases, which included drownings, flaming car crashes, and severe injuries to the skull and face. Since 2004 the U.S. military has performed x-rays and CT scans on the bodies of every service member killed where the armed forces have exclusive jurisdiction — that is, not just on battlefields abroad but on U.S. bases as well. 'It allows us to identify any foreign bodies present, such as projectiles,' says Edward Mazuchowski. 'X-rays give you the edge detail of radio-opaque or metallic objects, so you can sort out what the object might be, and CT, because it is three-dimensional, shows you where the object is in the body.' A study conducted among intensive care unit patients in Germany compared diagnoses made before death with the results of both traditional and virtual autopsy in 47 patients and with only virtual autopsy in another 115 whose families refused standard autopsy. Virtual autopsies confirmed 88 percent of diagnoses made before death, not far behind the 93 percent rate for traditional postmortem exams. 'The findings so far are mixed,' says Elizabeth Burton of Johns Hopkins University. Virtual autopsy, she says, 'is better for examining trauma, for wartime injuries, for structural defects. But when you start getting into tumors, infections and chronic conditions, it's not as good, and I doubt it will ever be better.'"

12 of 48 comments (clear)

  1. Wait by Mephistophocles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...cost reasons, religious objections, and because autopsies reveal medical mistakes, making doctors and hospitals uncomfortable.

    Say what? Does anyone else see that last reason list as completely asinine with regards to not doing an autopsy? Ok, maybe the religious one is a silly objection, but there's no need to go against the religious beliefs of the deceased/close family members, at least as long as foul play isn't a concern. But, because it might reveal the f*ck-ups of the quack that took your tonsils out? Yeah, I'm not getting the point of that one...

    --
    Deja Moo: The distinct feeling that you've heard this bull before.
    1. Re:Wait by iiii · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. That's what jumped out at me too. Revealing medical mistakes is a reason to do *more* autopsies. And any doctors or hospitals who are "uncomfortable" with that need to get out of the business. If you are not interested in having some QC to improve your processes, I don't want you involved in my medical care.

      --
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    2. Re:Wait by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      ...cost reasons, religious objections, and because autopsies reveal medical mistakes, making doctors and hospitals uncomfortable.

      Say what? Does anyone else see that last reason list as completely asinine with regards to not doing an autopsy? Ok, maybe the religious one is a silly objection, but there's no need to go against the religious beliefs of the deceased/close family members, at least as long as foul play isn't a concern. But, because it might reveal the f*ck-ups of the quack that took your tonsils out? Yeah, I'm not getting the point of that one...

      Well, welcome to the 21st century, Encino Man! Funniest thing - while you were encased in frozen carbonite, society took, er, a bit of a left turn, see, so now we collectively pretend that it's far more important to protect the reputation of rich quacks, than to enact social justice.


      Whaddayamean, 'that's batshit crazy?' Just what era do you hail from, bub?

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    3. Re:Wait by daem0n1x · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're right. Not doing an autopsy because it might reveal the fuckups of some doctor is not only stupid, it's evil.

      What also makes me uncomfortable is seeing something as retarded as "religious objections" as a growing reason for not doing an autopsy. In the Middle Ages, scientists had to buy bodies illegally to make their studies, risking to be burned at the stake for that "horrible crime". Haven't people learned anything yet? What the fuck does their god of choice care if someone cuts open a dead body? He refuses to welcome the deceased guy in Heaven, or Valhalla or whatever?

      After I die, take me to medical college and study me for as long as you like. It may make someone's life better, or even save lives. Then burn me to ashes so I don't go occupying precious real estate. What the fuck do I care? I'll be dead.

    4. Re:Wait by Local+ID10T · · Score: 2

      The reason you don't get it is because you are not the quack in question, nor are you his insurer, nor his employer...

      • -Doctors are against autopsies because it could show that they erred. Everyone makes mistakes.
      • -Insurance companies have to pay when a doctor's mistake is shown to be the cause of or a contributing factor in someones death.
      • -Hospitals share responsibility for procedures performed by their staff.
      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    5. Re:Wait by ShmuelP · · Score: 4, Informative

      What also makes me uncomfortable is seeing something as retarded as "religious objections" as a growing reason for not doing an autopsy. In the Middle Ages, scientists had to buy bodies illegally to make their studies, risking to be burned at the stake for that "horrible crime". Haven't people learned anything yet? What the fuck does their god of choice care if someone cuts open a dead body? He refuses to welcome the deceased guy in Heaven, or Valhalla or whatever?

      Western civilization has a notion called "religious freedom". We've discovered that things are much more peaceful if we ensure that everyone can practice as they see fit, regardless of how wrong we their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) may be. (Exceptions to the above when said practices involve harm to others.) So if my religion doesn't allow for routine autopsies, for whatever reason that you clearly don't understand, how about leaving it alone? You may feel free to instruct your heirs to handle your remains as you see fit, and the rest of us might appreciate the same courtesy in return.

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  2. Positive Externalities by alexander_686 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No – it makes complete rational sense. You want other hospitals to do autopsies – you want other people to bear the expense, the time, the embarrassment of mistakes gone wrong (and the potential lawsuits) to do the basic research that will help you.

    It is a classic (and I mean classic) of things not getting done because the positive externalities are not captured.

  3. Re:longest...summary...EVAR by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Funny

    can anyone summarize?

    Sure. If you substitute a CAT scan for a real autopsy it works just as well, except when it doesn't.

  4. Re:CT scan for soliders? by Ultra64 · · Score: 2

    You are thinking of an MRI.

  5. Re:safe dose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Potentially by a significant margin. In practice, most of the equipment is tuned to specific requirements of resolution, etc. Some flexibility is possible, for example, the use of mammography film/sensors for x-raying limbs for forensic purposes (usually child abuse cases). Mammography films/sensors have very low sensitivity but exceptional resolution and very high contrast; however, the full benefit cannot be obtained as a micro focus mammography x-ray source has insufficient energy to penetrate bone, so a conventional x-ray source with poorer focus must be used.

    CT has greater scope for improving the images quality, because CT image noise limited by photon shot noise in order to keep doses down. With modern scanners, they typically scan at maximum resolution always, but can then resample the images to lower resolution if desired for viewing (usually to reduce noise, or in my hospital's case because their SAN contract means archiving the full resolution data is cost-prohibitive). The technologist instead of controlling scanner parameters directly, merely specifies the desired quantity of noise at a standard resolution.

    From a medical perspective, this doesn't actually give much benefit in terms of diagnostic performance. From a practical perspective there are other issues as technologists are often barely trained. I once asked a CT technologist to scan a dry skull for use as an anatomical teaching tool, and asked them to crank up everything on the scanner to maximum; they couldn't do it even when I told them exactly what settings to change. As another example, I was looking at the functionality available on the scanner, which used a "tab page" control for the scan parameters and when I finished, I left the 2nd page visited rather than the first; I got my ass chewed out for that because the technologist couldn't work out what had happened to the scan settings, necessitating delaying an emergency scan and prompting an emergency support call to the scanner manufacturer.

  6. Re:what? by Guppy · · Score: 2

    autopsies are very expensive taking many hours of a pathologists time as well as extensive time of technical and assistant staff.

    Quite right, it's not really clear who's on the hook to pay. In theory, the cost of autopsies are supposedly covered in the contracts hospitals have with government and private insurance, but often as a hazy "it's included" concept, often with no budget earmarks for the departments that would actually do the work, and no change in funds for increased (or decreased) use of autopsies.

  7. Re:The dead as demi-gods by dmr001 · · Score: 2
    In my experience (as a physician) most objections to an autopsy are from family members who don't like the idea of their loved ones being opened up and disassembled.

    But there are major religions which objections to autopsy as well, including Islam and Judaism, though as usual it seems to depend on the local imam/rabbi.

    I'm sure they are out there, but I've never actually known a case of a physician objecting to an autopsy for fear of uncovering their errors. The egotistical among us I suspect feel they would likely be exonerated, and many (perhaps most others in these parts anyway, among my colleagues in the US Pacific Northwest) honestly would want to learn from their mistakes. Nevertheless, it's hard to figure out who funds them, and many families tend to feel it's a final act of violence. Still, it's hard for me to wrap my head around getting a more accurate, cost-effective answer from a CT scan than a old-fashioned postmortem.