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Our Weather Satellites Are Dying

Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that some experts say it is almost certain that the U.S. will soon face a year or more without crucial weather satellites that provide invaluable data for predicting storm tracks. This is because the existing polar satellites are nearing or beyond their life expectancies, and the launching of the next replacement, known as JPSS-1, has slipped until early 2017. Polar satellites provide 84 percent of the data used in the main American computer model tracking the course of Hurricane Sandy, which at first was expected to amble away harmlessly, but now appears poised to strike the mid-Atlantic states. The mismanagement of the $13 billion program to build the next generation weather satellites was recently described as a 'national embarrassment' by a top official of the Commerce Department. A launch mishap or early on-orbit failure of JPSS 1 could lead to a data gap of more than 5 years. The second JPSS satellite — JPSS 2 — is not scheduled for launch until 2022. 'There is no more critical strategic issue for our weather satellite programs than the risk of gaps in satellite coverage,' writes Jane Lubchenco, the under-secretary responsible for the Commerce Department's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Agency. 'This dysfunctional program that had become a national embarrassment due to chronic management problems.' As a aside, I know from personal experience that this isn't the first time NOAA has been in this situation. 'In 1992 NOAA's GOES weather satellites were at the end of their useful lives and could have failed at any time,' I wrote as a project manager for AlliedSignal at that time. 'So NOAA made an agreement with the government of Germany to borrow a Meteosat Weather Satellite as a backup and drift it over from Europe to provide weather coverage for the US's Eastern seaboard in the event of an early GOES failure.'"

20 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. NBC / weather channel / comcast has deep pocket by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    NBC / weather channel / comcast has deep pockets may they can pay for one.

    1. Re:NBC / weather channel / comcast has deep pocket by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, and put all the data behind a paywall... Not a good idea.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:NBC / weather channel / comcast has deep pocket by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would they? When they can get the government to do it.

      Why would they launch their own satellites if the government did NOT do it for them? Look, they've done well repackaging the text data you've always been able to get from NOAA. They take the raw imagery, doll it up and spin it around in various eye-watering, stomach-churning ways. They're in the data presentation business, not the data production business.

      Sure, being the only organization that can fill in the data gap would be a competitive advantage, but that requires investment, and in general the investment in substance by information-media has dropped through the floor. News outfits cutting back on things like foreign bureaues and local reporters and shifting their content to opinion; and you expect them to pick up the 655 million dollars it takes to field the JPSS-1 and the 12.6 *billion* of the entire program?

      What the American government really seems to do is funnel tax payers money into companies.

      Well, sure. If you're going to have a space program, it's either funnel taxpayers' money into companies or into programs staffed by government workers. The question shouldn't be where the money ends up, it should be value for money. A decade of accurate storm tracking is easily worth 12 billion bucks to America as a whole; it's just not worth 12 billion to any single private entity.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:NBC / weather channel / comcast has deep pocket by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would it take that news outfit $12 billion? Just because it costs government a lot, doesn't mean that it should cost a private entity the same.

      I would hope that if it costs $13 billion for some weather satellites, that nobody is foolish enough to pay it. Well, of course the government was that foolish.. but hey.

      This works out to a years income for 288,888 people at the median ($45K) level. No, not the taxes they pay.. THEIR ENTIRE INCOME.

      Or, with that kind of money you can order the production a whopping 260,000 commercial drones at $50,000 per unit. You can *lose* 71 commercial drones per day for 10 years and still not match the cost of these new weather satellites.

      I am amazed at how often the cost that these projects consume doesnt greatly offend peoples senses. $10 billion costs $77 per household. Money like that adds up quickly.. a couple hundred projects like that and you've got the american government in a nutshell.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. The Federal Acquisitions System is Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are so many "checks and balances" in the system, and so much risk aversion, that the system can not perform. No program manager is ever rewarded for taking a risk, or succeeding, so the best ones are the ones who can redirect blame and reduce risk. Same with the contracting and finance people, and to no small extent, the government engineers. Worse, those who are competent flee the government, leaving us with a population that's not good or representative of their fields at large. I wasn't given the option to enter it (military orders) but I'm leaving as soon as I can, because it's a dead end, morally, emotionally and professionally.

    1. Re:The Federal Acquisitions System is Broken by spd_rcr · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We had a guest speaker at an ASME meeting a month and a half ago talking about this very issue, Dr. Bonnie Dunbar. She was speaking about her talks with congress about the importance of replacing these weather satellites and the response she got from the representatives was "why do we need satellites, can't we just get our weather from the internet".
      A republic only works if you send your best and brightest off to handle the day-to-day decisions.Representatives that got their job via a popularity contest are usually no more fit make technical decisions than guys and gals who won the homecoming king & queen positions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrj9Wc2L84

      --
      - tensions in our lives that are attacking our minds, unite themselves together to make our consciousness blind - op'ivy
  3. Re:Next generation? by LaminatorX · · Score: 5, Funny

    The new weather satalites will access The Cloud to speed deployment and reduce support costs.

  4. Re:Next generation? by cvtan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'll bet any amount that the people that designed and built the old satellites are not around anymore. "Next generation" is industry speak for "We have to start all over again.". Of course, I have no facts to back this up.

    --
    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  5. We the people of germany. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    are on the one side glad to support our allies on our axis, but must decline the shipment of data that might harm the religious feelings of many american citizens.

    Weather is made by god, man shall not try to understand gods ways, because this would make man a god. Thus weather shall not be understood by the god fearing american people that replace a theory like evolution or the big bang theory by simpler means; creative design and the not so "creative beginning".

    A just kidding, take as much data as you need, because if you fear for your life you also sell your soul, aren't you ?

    1. Re:We the people of germany. by vikingpower · · Score: 4, Funny

      Usually I don't reply to ACs. This is an exception. As an Austrian resident ( and an atheist pig, to top it off ) I can not but wholeheartedly concur. Where are my mod points ??

      --
      Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    2. Re:We the people of germany. by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Funny

      Although German engineers excel at terrestrial technology, like BMW and Porsche, their space technology has not been nurtured. After the war, the Russians took their German scientists, to build their Russian space program, and the US took their German scientists, to build their US space program. Anyone who was left over in Germany was like the nerdy kid to get picked last for a team in school sports.

      In fact, the last German weather satellite was a total failure. It was called Satelliten Chefkoch Hauptleitungsabzweigklemme Überwachungstechnik Leitungsschutzschalter Teleauskunft Zeitverschiebung, or SCHULTZ for short. When queried about the weather, it simply replied:

      "I see NOTHING . . . NOTHING!"

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  6. Weather control satellite? by GiantRobotMonster · · Score: 4, Funny

    A proper weather satellite would control the weather, rather than simply observe it.
    Then I could write my name in snow, across an entire continent.
    Muhahahaha.

  7. Re:Subcontract by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you really want to save money have China build the satellites. They might even launch them in geosynchronous orbit over the US for free.

  8. Serious question by sunami · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why are we building meteorological satellites when we have the Weather Channel?

  9. Re:Next generation? by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do we need "next generation" satellites? Why not build more of the same, which apparently have worked adequately for quite a while?

    Car Analogy Warning: When fuel is your biggest cost, the price difference between launching a Model-T into orbit isn't really that relevant compared to launching a ferrari.

    There's also the whole "technology improving" thing.
    Imagine the current state of science if we were only using microscopes that "have worked adequately for quite a while"
    Heck, feel free to compare and contrast a 1999 cell phone with one made in 2010.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  10. Space Cloudz by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Idiot! There aren't any clouds in space!

    The Magellanic cloud hereby invites you to a party. Also attending will be the Oort cloud, the Milky Way gas clouds, a molecular cloud from Andromeda, and an alcohol cloud of considerable refinement*. CHON will be served. Entertainment will be provided by black holes stripping electrons.

    *Only those from planets understood to be older than 6000 years may attend.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  11. Perhaps weather data isn't a priority to some(??) by digitalaudiorock · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll probably get some troll points for this, but after watching the recent Frontline titled Climate of Doubt, I wonder if there aren't some pretty powerful forces out there that just plain don't want weather/climate data all that much. The interviews in that show seem to indicate that the big money behind that effort (which over the last four years has somehow convinced half of the U.S. population that man made climate change is a myth, while science has gone in the opposite direction), is way more about Ayn Randian ideology than science.

    All pretty scary if you ask me...like we're getting closer and closer to witch burning every day...

  12. Tornado Warning brought to you by Red Bull by PNutts · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Tornados also give you wings!" Cut to 30 second commercial.

  13. Re:Your one party system has failed you by Iamthecheese · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a brilliant example of one category of tragedy of the commons. The dollars spent are easily seen and tracked. The dollars saved are invisible.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  14. Perhaps I should enlighten a few people here. by ColaMan · · Score: 5, Informative

    The polar orbiting satellites are the quiet achievers of weather forecasting. Everyone sees the geostationary sat images on TV and think that's it, but there's a lot more going on with the polar sats.

    They orbit north/south over the poles at about 800km. They are sun-synchronous (so the sun is always behind them illuminating the earth on their daylight run) and they do an orbit about every 90 minutes or so. The earth turns underneath them as they orbit, so they cover the entire globe. The current POES status is here

    They transmit a heap of data - the data I receive here in Australia is the APT transmissions, which is 4 x 4 km per pixel resolution images in the visible and IR wavelength, which run constantly. As the satellite clears the horizon, you pick up the signal at two lines per second and about 15 minutes later on a directly overhead pass it sets again and you've got a nice, 2000km x 4000km image of your immediate area, just like if it came off a fax machine. The two wavelengths offered in the analog mode give you a visible image and allow you to read temperatures, so you can find thunderheads and cold fronts, for example. The APT transmissions just require a 137Mhz FM receiver and a simple antenna to pick up, so it's easy to get images.

    They also have a digital mode - HRPT - with the entire range of 6 imaging sensors onboard and 1x1km per pixel resolution and you can do a lot with that - highlight vegetation, measure and and sea surface temps, locate and track fires and such.

    Onboard there are also charge sensors for measuring auroral densities, and you can visit a webpage that shows the current auroral activity. The satellites can also receive, process and retransmit data from Search and Rescue beacon transmitters, and automatic data collection platforms on land, ocean buoys, or aboard free-floating balloons, as well as detect and map the ozone holes that appear yearly over the poles.

    Their capabilities completely outclass the geosynchronous satellites and I hope that NOAA gets their act together and back on track with the launches.

    --

    You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
    There is a lot of hype here.