Rasterman On The Impending Release of Enlightenment 17

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Rasterman On The Impending Release of Enlightenment 17

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday October 31, 2012 @03:29AM from the waiting-on-hurd dept.

In development for the better part of the last decade, the 0.17 release of the Enlightenment window manager is slated for November 5th. Leading up to this, the H has an enlightening interview with project lead Rasterman on what to expect. From the article: "Today Enlightenment offers most of what you get from GNOME and KDE, and probably the same if not a bit more than XFCE. It just doesn't try and ship a suite of apps with it. It is the desktop (Window manager, settings, file manager, application launching and management) minus the apps. ... The biggest thing E17 brings to the table is universal compositing. This means you can use a composited desktop without any GPU acceleration at all, and use it nicely. We don't rely on software fallback implementations of OpenGL. We literally have a specific software engine that is so fast that some developers spent weeks using it accidentally, not realizing they had software compositing on their setup."

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Very Cool... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 03:35 · Score: 1

Awesome. Best Eyecandy desktop. Ever.
1. Re:Very Cool... by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2012-10-31 03:38 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  So. Slashdot will die, as it began - with dev update news on the Enlightenment project. :-)
  Where's my Windowmaker submission?
  
  --
  "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
  Never been known to fail..."
2. Re:Very Cool... by 0racle · 2012-10-31 03:46 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Right here from February 2012.
  
  --
  "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
3. Re:Very Cool... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 03:58 · Score: 1
  
  As a current WindowMaker user, I resent that comment, you insensitive clod.
4. Re:Very Cool... by _merlin · 2012-10-31 04:38 · Score: 1
  
  Awesome. Best Eyecandy desktop. Ever.
  No way man! The best eyecandy desktop would have to have boobs on it! I see no boobs in TFA! (I know, I'm not supposed to read it, but the there was the promise of eyecandy!)
5. Re:Very Cool... by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2012-10-31 07:07 · Score: 1
  
  After all, "Netcraft confirms it..."
  MEEEPT!
  
  --
  "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
  Never been known to fail..."
6. Re:Very Cool... by rwa2 · 2012-10-31 07:11 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  So. Slashdot will die, as it began - with dev update news on the Enlightenment project. :-)
  Where's my Windowmaker submission?
  Grr... I'm still looking for WindowMaker features in some of my "modern" WMs...
  * Desktop naming. It had a great effect where you could name each desktop with a task or whatever (mine were usually "Main", "Web", "Graphics", and "Root") and they would flash and fade briefly onscreen whenever you switched desktops. Haven't seen any other desktop manager try to do that. I faked something like that using xosd, but that's kinda clunky and persists too long when jumping over multiple desktops.
  * Clip : a desktop-sensitive dock. This is a great idea... it worked a lot like the Windows 7 taskbar does now, where an app would appear there when you're using it, and you have the option of permanently attaching it to the clip on that desktop. I'm annoyed with most docks / taskbars that get cluttered up with everything... but it makes sense to have one for each desktop, so you could have all your graphics programs in your toolchain on one desktop clip, web tools on another, admin tools on another. etc.
  * WM dockapps : These little monitors were great! I mostly just using gkrellm and its plugins now, though, which is probably more efficient and flexible.
  * Awesome skinability : it was ridiculously simple to create themes, for the most part it was just a background, a handful of titlebar textures, and some color selections, and it would do the rest of the work. Done!
  Only reason I stopped using WM was because it didn't do compositing... I needs me my transparent xterms :P
7. Re:Very Cool... by neurovish · 2012-10-31 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  XFCE? ....
  Actually looking for the option, I did not find it...google gave me this page though, http://askubuntu.com/questions/15971/getting-visual-feedback-of-workspace-switch-in-xfce
  I know one of the window managers I've used frequently in the past would do that...I thought XFCE, but maybe it was a *box or Enlightenment. Middle click in xfce will show you workspace names, and you can change them.
8. Re:Very Cool... by bluefoxlucid · 2012-10-31 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  E is mostly masturbation. It was a major desktop option in Mandrake 7.2 but that was it.
  
  --
  Support my political activism on Patreon.
9. Re:Very Cool... by markhb · 2012-10-31 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  ISTR it was the default option in Red Hat Linux at some point in the late '90s, when the logo featured the weird kris-knife thing (or maybe it was a drizzle of solder).
  
  --
  Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
10. Re:Very Cool... by deek · 2012-10-31 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  If E is mostly masturbation, then I have been masturbating for the last four or five years. Daily. At work and at home. In front of friends and family.
  Even more, if you count E16, although I only switched to using E17 at work around four or five years ago.
11. Re:Very Cool... by raster · 2012-10-31 20:55 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Desktop naming: E17 does this. :) it flashes not just the name but a full preview of all desktops in a "larger size" with their contents etc.
  Clip: e17 shelf. can be customized per desktop.
  WM dockapps: e17 modules+gadgets. not separate processes but plug-ins so they hare generally lighter weight - you CAN implement them as a module "glue" plus slave process if u like.
  Awesome skinability: we have a whole toolset for it. edje_cc compiles them and after that just select the output edj file from the theme browser. the theme though is complex, but insanely powerful.
  Compositing: yeah. E17 dos that too. it also solve world peace and hunger. :)
  
  --
  --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
12. Re:Very Cool... by raster · 2012-10-31 20:56 · Score: 1
  
  And it feels so good...
  
  --
  --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
13. Re:Very Cool... by fwarren · 2012-11-02 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Enlightenment would have me as a user if they properly supported WM dockapps.
  Since XFCE as WMDOCK a spend about 50% of my time in XFCE and 50% of my time in Fluxbox.
  E16 was awesome. Way to got E17 development team. Glad to see someone is still writing light and fast software.
  
  --
  vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
14. Re:Very Cool... by fwarren · 2012-11-02 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  If e17 had a WM dock module they would own my soul.
  
  --
  vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
On target for 1.0 in 3010 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 03:35 · Score: 1

Just kidding.
1. Re:On target for 1.0 in 3010 by rnturn · 2012-10-31 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  Why? Jeez, I've been reading about E17 for so long now that it I'm starting to wonder if the thing'll ever see the light of day. A 3010 release doesn't seem all that unlikely the way it's been going. (Did they bring in the release manager from the Duke Nukem team?)
  
  --
  CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
2. Re:On target for 1.0 in 3010 by Lennie · 2012-10-31 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  They've been releasing new versions of their libraries regularly for the past few years.
  So yes, they will release it soon enough.
  
  --
  New things are always on the horizon
3. Re:On target for 1.0 in 3010 by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  Soon enough for what? For dinosaurs to re-evolve? For the sun to explode? For RMS to issue the GNU OS??
4. Re:On target for 1.0 in 3010 by LizardKing · 2012-11-01 00:57 · Score: 1
  
  It's been usable for most of the time it's been in development, and I'm actually running the nightly RPM builds on my laptop at work. I think the lack of a formal stable release just reflects the high rate of change in the underlying libraries, where things are refactored or rewritten quite often. Despite this churn, the window manager itself has remained remarkably stable.
5. Re:On target for 1.0 in 3010 by Lennie · 2012-11-11 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  My guess is 2013.
  
  --
  New things are always on the horizon
Will it include a "Duke Nukem Forever" applet? by dpilot · 2012-10-31 03:40 · Score: 1

Similar development cycles, hopefully E17 won't land with the same *thud* as DNF.

--
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
1. Re:Will it include a "Duke Nukem Forever" applet? by characterZer0 · 2012-10-31 03:55 · Score: 2
  
  E17 is not just landing. I have been using it for 7 years now. There have been some bugs and occasionally configuration broke on upgrade, but it has been usable. It is just approaching official release.
  
  --
  Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
2. Re:Will it include a "Duke Nukem Forever" applet? by characterZer0 · 2012-10-31 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  That has not been the default for a long time (years maybe).
  
  --
  Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
3. Re:Will it include a "Duke Nukem Forever" applet? by dpilot · 2012-11-01 03:21 · Score: 1
  
  That's the best response. The others actually seemed to take me seriously.
  
  --
  The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Re:Software fallback? by TWX · 2012-10-31 03:40 · Score: 1

That's what I was thinking.

It also got me thinking, that since they use some kind of a wrapper that developers interface to, one could just as easily implement a new wrapper to use OpenGL or a hardware solution if one knows the specifications. Hell, maybe someone will write a DirectX wrapper!

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Re:Software fallback? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-10-31 03:42 · Score: 4, Informative

How is that not a software fallback?
They didn't say it's not a software fallback, they say it isn't a software fallback implementation of OpenGL.

--
Ezekiel 23:20
Great job Rasterman and team by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 03:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

Been using e17 for the better part of the last decade. It might not have been released, but CVS head (now SVN head) has usually been completely stable to run.
I hope more folks adopt EFL (Enlightenment foundation libraries) for their projects too. It would be great to just have to re-theme an app to use it on a phone, or a desktop with keyboard as EFL allows you to do.
Again, congrats on coming through with a full featured, fast, lightweight, with all the eye candy you could want, and limitless customization allowing, window manager/desktop.
1. Re:Great job Rasterman and team by epSos-de · 2012-10-31 13:31 · Score: 1
  
  Can you please compare it with the latest Xfce and tell the good parts ?
  
  --
  ~ Best man at your service.
Re:Software fallback? by Desler · 2012-10-31 03:47 · Score: 1

Yes, when you chop out part of the sentence it makes it easy to criticize as seeming to contradict itself. They said they don't rely on "software fallback implementations of OpenGL". You're supposed to read to the end of the sentence.
Re:Software fallback? by nedlohs · 2012-10-31 03:47 · Score: 1

Because it's no an implementation of openGL would be the obvious conclusion if you read the claim.
Re:Software fallback? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 03:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

We don't rely on software fallback implementations of OpenGL.
How is that not a software fallback?
They're not using a software fallback implementation of OpenGL. Since compositing windows doesn't require 3D mesh rendering, etc. this can be faster and more purpose-tuned than a generic software OpenGL.
Did they mean to say that they wrote their own software fallback?
I suspect what they *meant* is for you to use your reading comprehension skills, which the taxpayer worked hard to provide for you.
GNOME by benjfowler · 2012-10-31 03:55 · Score: 1

Didn't Enlightenment (and Raster himself) get purged from the GNOME project because the community turned on him because of the poor quality of his code?
1. Re:GNOME by sebt3 · 2012-10-31 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  Someone suggesting Rasterman's code quality is bad havent read Rasterman's code obviously
2. Re:GNOME by DrXym · 2012-10-31 05:18 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I seem to recall that he worked for Red Hat and the relationship went sour. I expect Red Hat wanted a professional, functional and clean desktop and GNOME was going the direction they wanted and E wasn't.
3. Re:GNOME by silviuc · 2012-10-31 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yeah, because the gnome project is known for delivering top notch products. Esp true since Gnome 3. Their way of fixing bugs seems to be that of just yanking code out of everything. Does some feature in nautilus not work right? Damn. Sparky, yank it out! Looking forward to the day when all that's left of Gnome is reduced to "Hello World!"
4. Re:GNOME by jonadab · 2012-10-31 05:22 · Score: 2
  
  > Didn't Enlightenment (and Raster himself) get purged from the
  > GNOME project because the community turned on him because
  > of the poor quality of his code?
  
  I think it was more that the Gnome people were (at that time)
  determined to have multiple possible Gnome-compliant window
  managers so the user would have a choice. (This was _before_
  the anti-choice jihad that brought us Gnome 2.) Their plan, at
  the time, was to feature a different default window manager in
  each release. After Enlightenment, the next one was Sawfish,
  which I still use, on account of the fact that it's much better
  than the current default Gnome window manager at doing
  what I want a window manager to do and staying out of my
  way otherwise.
  
  I experimented with going back to Enlightenment, but the
  old version had not been maintained sufficiently to really
  work on a modern system (e.g. it does not interact as it
  should with modern versions of gnome-panel; sawfish on
  the other hand does that just fine and thus can be used
  as a drop-in replacement for metacity or whatever the new
  default wm is in Gnome), and the new Enlightenment,
  besides still being in alpha, was also trying to be an entire
  desktop environment, one with a new organizational
  paradigm to replace traditional overlapping windows,
  and that wasn't really what I was looking for, personally.
  
  So I stuck with Sawfish. It works for me. It does what
  I want a window manager to do, and it stays out of my
  way apart from that.
  
  --
  Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
5. Re:GNOME by gamanimatron · 2012-10-31 05:38 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Wow. It's rare that you can actually see sarcasm dipping from a comment.
  
  --
  cogito ergo dubito
6. Re:GNOME by aok · 2012-10-31 06:22 · Score: 2
  
  Back when both Rasterman and Alan Cox worked at Red Hat, Alan had mentioned doing a security audit of Raster's code and made a comment that it was rather spagghetti-like.
  After the big news of Raster angrily quitting Red Hat, rumours circlated and Alan came out and posted on Slashdot apologizng to Raster stating that he didn't mean to offend him if that's what it was. It wasn't Alan, but an unnamed middle manager that caused Raster to quit.
7. Re:GNOME by tyrione · 2012-10-31 08:07 · Score: 2
  
  Wow. It's rare that you can actually see sarcasm dipping from a comment.
  And all this time I've been waiting for the drip.
8. Re:GNOME by drinkypoo · 2012-10-31 09:56 · Score: 2
  
  So I stuck with Sawfish. It works for me. It does what
  I want a window manager to do, and it stays out of my
  way apart from that.
  You should see what you can do about those spurious carriage returns.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
9. Re:GNOME by dbIII · 2012-10-31 15:05 · Score: 1
  
  Other way around - raster etc dropped gnome since including it broke all cross platform support in e16 and the 2nd largest contributor to e16 worked on solaris. The gnome people that were more interested in playing politics would not give way and insisted that it be a linux only desktop. Gnome really was such an utter piece of shit back then (before the useless idiots left to play politics elsewhere) that the gnome3 fuss looks trivial.
10. Re:GNOME by raster · 2012-10-31 21:25 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  bwahahahaha. love the FUD man. i suggest you school up on history.
  *I* quit doing gnome stuff because redhat was not paying me anymore indicating that i must work on gnome, thus i had the freedom to choose, and i CHOSE not to, because i hated the direction it was going and my CHOICE was to veer away and e stopped bending to gnome's will and thus it became hard for gnome to use e because it conflicted with what they wanted to do.
  early on before gnome was known about, redhat caught wind of gnome and wanted me to help. i offered to tailor e for gnome at the start. miguel (hi!) stated that gnome needed no wm and would work with all and any wm just fine. i disagreed. since i wrote wm's i kind of had an idea of what would be needed. a year later it was "oh halp! we need a wm! we can't do x, y, z without one". too late. i was tailoring e to be independent of any desktop like gnome. gnome wanted to have a virtual desktop set up totally incompatible with e's because gnomes concept of desktops was too simple. it wanted to take over pager desktop switching and task switching. it wanted to be master and wm be a dumb slave and take over a lot of the functionality of e. i disagreed and by now it was too late as i wasn't going to kill all the features already now in e because gnome didn't want them. i ultimately put in some support for gnome, ability to disable such features in configuration, and it happened to be one of the first wm's with gnome support but it was limited and i had no plans to extend it or integrate it more in gnome and that is why gnome stopped using e because they wanted a wm that JUST is a wm and doesn't do anything more that a very limited set of things.
  you need to get your history right.
  
  --
  --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
11. Re:GNOME by raster · 2012-10-31 21:30 · Score: 2
  
  yeah. alan had nothing to do with that. alan is a great guy - i like him and yes - some of my code was a bit spaghetti-like at the time. other bits were clean and nice. it depends which bit you look at. current EFL code is much better. everyone learns as they go along and improves their code. i did too.
  
  --
  --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
12. Re:GNOME by LizardKing · 2012-11-01 01:03 · Score: 1
  
  Rasterman's code is elegant and very readable. From what I remember, he parted ways with the GNOME project because he wasn't particularly interested in working on the GTK libraries as a RedHat staffer.
truly this must be by Swampash · 2012-10-31 04:01 · Score: 2

the year of Linux on the desktop!
1. Re:truly this must be by timeOday · 2012-10-31 06:30 · Score: 2
  
  Android's marketshare on smartphones is approaching 70%. Linux isn't winning on the desktop, it's outmoding the desktop.
2. Re:truly this must be by Lennie · 2012-10-31 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  E17 runs fine on mobile too, look at Tizen.
  Hell, it already ran on the old HP IPaq.
  
  --
  New things are always on the horizon
3. Re:truly this must be by Lennie · 2012-10-31 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  Now that I think about it, I think some company even created a fridge with Internet which uses E17-libraries (called EFL) to provide the GUI/browser experience.
  
  --
  New things are always on the horizon
See it to believe it by water-and-sewer · 2012-10-31 04:02 · Score: 5, Informative

Anyone who wonders if it's going to be a dud, needs to get over to http://www.bodhilinux.com/ immediately to check out a distro that showcases E17 beautifully (it's Ubuntu underneath). I had some issues on a 64bit desktop but it runs wonderfully on my Core Duo netbook, and it's fast.
Likes: gorgeous, responsive desktop, fast, low memory usage, and it's easy to bend it into whatever shape you like. It offers a pretty standard desktop for anybody sick of Unity/Gnome3 but you can also have some radical interfaces too, like a tiling interface that looks like it would work great on a tablet (in fact I wish I had a Linux tablet I could try it on but am scared to nuke my Google Nexus 7 trying it). The "run anything" gizmo - kind of like Alt-F2 - is fantastic; I think it works better than Gnome_Do and Krunner and even Apple's Quicksilver (which is damned good). Their Terminology terminal is pretty sweet; I increasingly spend 90% of my linux day in it.
Dislikes: it takes a bit of getting used to, and the distinction between modules, shelves, modes, and extensions has taken some time to figure out. My version of E7 (Bodhi 2.0.0) also occasionally segfaults, so there must be some remaining bugs to work out.
But this netbook came with Ubuntu/Gnome and I find Bodhi running E17 to be a huge improvement. I love it. If you want to see what E17 is like, what it does, and what it *can* do, there's no better way to start.

--
If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
1. Re:See it to believe it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 04:17 · Score: 1
  
  Bodhi Linux uses E WM
  I tried Bodhi Linux a few versions back and while the experience was somewhat pleasing, I found several bugs and gave up. I may try a newer version in the future.
  "Bodhi Linux is an Ubuntu-based distribution for the desktop featuring the elegant and lightweight Enlightenment window manager. The project, which integrates and pre-configures the very latest builds of Enlightenment directly from the project's development repository, offers modularity, high level of customisation, and choice of themes. The default Bodhi system is light -- the only pre-installed applications are Midori, LXTerminal, PCManFM, Leafpad and Synaptic -- but more software is available via Bodhi Software Center, a web-based software installation tool."
  http://distrowatch.com/bodhi
  http://www.bodhilinux.com/
  http://forums.bodhilinux.com/
  http://wiki.bodhilinux.com/
  http://www.bodhilinux.com/gallerydotw.php
  http://www.chrishaney.com/?linux&distro=bodhi
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/bodhilinux/files/
2. Re:See it to believe it by rwa2 · 2012-10-31 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm, thanks for the review...
  At some point a few years ago Raster was talking about putting in some neat interactive stuff in the window decorations, like CPU/mem/IO utilization meters per window process and stuff like that... has any of that come to fruition?
  I had an awesome E16-based "enlightenome" desktop a while ago, but I really screwed up my .enlightenment profile after trying to build my own theme, and eventually started using compiz-fusion since it had enough configurability (and eye candy too I suppose) to set up some pretty interesting application kiosks for work.
3. Re:See it to believe it by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Still looks like an ugly toy.
  KDE 3.x is still the most professional desktop Linux has ever had, with GNOME 2.x a decent second. Sadly though, SOME people saw fit to undermine that. Whether for their own misguidance, their own interests, or for money/backkicks from MS/Apple/Sun, I don't know. It's amazing how fast the Linux desktop fell apart though.
4. Re:See it to believe it by raster · 2012-10-31 21:32 · Score: 1
  
  never got around to it. :( it's still on the todo list. we've been distracted into doing whole widget sets and toolkits and other stuff. :)
  
  --
  --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Re:Elightenment is nice but also terrible by Lumpy · 2012-10-31 04:02 · Score: 1

"At first it seems neat because it fast and funky but after using it for a few weeks it starts to give me a headache. It's just too weird, it looks weird, behaves weird, just weirdness all around."
Then you are going to utterly LOVE Windows 8. It's built on wierd.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Software fallback? by jedidiah · 2012-10-31 04:05 · Score: 1

It probably helps that these guys have been doing this eye candy stuff since long before it occurred to anyone else to do it. A lot of their stuff probably just predates any of the accelerated OpenGL stuff on Linux.

--
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re:Elightenment is nice but also terrible by Thud457 · 2012-10-31 04:40 · Score: 4, Funny

Then you are going to utterly LOVE Windows 8. It's built on wierd.
No, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (/., probably) that Windows 8 was built on a old Indian burial ground.

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Re:Software fallback? by DrXym · 2012-10-31 05:11 · Score: 2

GNOME has begun using llvmpipe to do software rasterisation. As the name suggests it's implemented using a low level virtual machine instruction language which is generated at runtime and compiled into optimal machine code for the hardware it's running on. It could in theory split rendering over multiple cores, or take advantage of any hardware acceleration around to make itself faster than other mesa software rasterizers. As far as the client side is concerned it's just an OpenGL driver which makes it very easy to program to while still making optimal use of what's available.
I doubt it's going to win prizes for performance against a proper GPU especially for playing games but it should be adequate for running GNOME or Unity on a semi modern setup.
Re:Elightenment is nice but also terrible by jd2112 · 2012-10-31 05:12 · Score: 4, Funny

Wrong, it was built in the pit of Hell by sadistic demons for the purpose of punishing mankind for Comcast throttling Satan's Internet connection.

--
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Re:Software fallback? by Atzanteol · 2012-10-31 05:13 · Score: 1

Oh snap!

--
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

- Charles Darwin
WHOA /. 2004 by ryzvonusef · 2012-10-31 05:16 · Score: 1

I was reading that old link, wow, bless their little hearts, discussing about Windows 98 and Office 2000...
And Slashdot was *still* bitching about whether this was *news* or not... :D

--
I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
Re:Software fallback? by aztracker1 · 2012-10-31 05:30 · Score: 1

That doesn't make it a bad decision to stick with it... I find that more recent versions of gnome/unity/kde can be very sluggish on even modern hardware. I just want a usable desktop with a modest amount of eye candy that runs well. I really like the Win7 taskbar the best currently... Would say that the Mint desktop is probably a distant second, followed by osx. It's sad MS had to f*ck it all up with Win8.

--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Wait for it... by llZENll · 2012-10-31 05:56 · Score: 1

O eh, o eh, o eh, o eh
O eh, oo aah, o eh, oo aah
Yah ya goh
O eh, o eh, o eh, o eh
O eh, oo aah, o eh, oo aah
O eh, o eh
Yah ya goh
At night when you turn off all the lights
There's no place that you can hide
Oh no, Rasterman is gonna get'cha
In bed, throw the covers on your head
You pretend like you are dead
But I know it
Rasterman is gonna gey'cha
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get you
Rasterman is gonna get you tonight
No way, you can fight it every day
But no matter what you say
You know it
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
No clue, of what's happening to you
And before this night is through
Ooh baby
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get you
Rasterman is gonna get you tonight
O eh, o eh, o eh, o eh
O eh, oo aah, o eh, oo aah
O eh, o eh, o eh, o eh
O eh, oo aah, o eh, oo aah
O eh, o eh
Yah yeh goh
Yah yeh goh
Yah yeh goh
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get you
Rasterman is gonna get you
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Rasterman is gonna get'cha
Na na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na na
Rasterman is gonna get you
Na na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na na
O eh, o eh, o eh, o eh
O eh, oo aah, o eh, oo aah
O eh, o eh, o eh, o eh
O eh, oo aah, o eh, oo aah
O eh, o eh
Na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na
Upping the ante by kwiqsilver · 2012-10-31 05:57 · Score: 1

So 2011 saw Duke Nukem Forever. 2012 sees E 17. Is there a bigger piece of vaporware out there for 2013?
E on Bodhi by skaralic · 2012-10-31 05:57 · Score: 2

I use Enlightenment on Bodhi Linux for my older machines and it performs wonderfully! It's fast and lean and, once it's all configured, very productive. The community forums are active and helpful, you'll even get a reply from Rasterman himself on occasion. Kudos for keeping this project alive for all those years, it keeps getting better!
Re:LOL by Superdarion · 2012-10-31 06:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

LOL
What? I wish Microsoft was as forthcoming with their faults as these guys. At least you know they're trying to fix the crashes.
Re:Software fallback? by OrangeTide · 2012-10-31 06:58 · Score: 1

We don't rely on software fallback implementations of OpenGL.
prepositions sure are hard.

--
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Built on X? How about Wayland? by gr8_phk · 2012-10-31 07:03 · Score: 1

Will Enlightenment be moving to Wayland any time soon, or is it hopelessly intertwined with X?
Yep by Anonymous Coward · 2012-10-31 07:07 · Score: 3, Informative

Enlighenment will work with Wayland and will be getting better in the future. Bummer they think they need to extend Wayland itself though.
Re:OT: Independent desktops for each screen by shibashaba · 2012-10-31 08:00 · Score: 1

e17 has been doing that for a long time, and yes, it is awesome too!

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---------- Open Source is capitalism applied to IP.
Re:Software fallback? by MichaelSmith · 2012-10-31 08:59 · Score: 1

a low level virtual machine instruction language which is generated at runtime and compiled into optimal machine code for the hardware it's running on
All that for a pretty desktop environment?

--
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Re:Elightenment is nice but also terrible by MichaelSmith · 2012-10-31 09:01 · Score: 2

Yeah I used EFL components on the openmoko. It was loaded with ifs and buts. Only some components would nest inside other components for example. In swing you can put anything you want inside a ScrollPane. In EFL, only what the developers needed when they wrote it.

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http://michaelsmith.id.au
Re:Elightenment is nice but also terrible by Lumpy · 2012-10-31 09:06 · Score: 1

I am so using that for my new sig.....

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Why I will never use E17. by deek · 2012-10-31 14:42 · Score: 1

That was quite the stream-of-consciousness post. Nice work. I think I even understood most of it.
By the way, to change your theme, download a new theme file, copy it to ~/.e/e/themes/, go to Settings->Theme and select it. Theme change is instant.
I'm running E17, on Debian Testing (proper). With a new theme. I'm happy with it.
Selective recall? by dbIII · 2012-10-31 15:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

Considering that the email insults that rasters manager cced to all of redhat ended up on the net your expectations could have been easily replaced with fact. Broken promises, an idiot manager that didn't last much longer than raster before being fired outright and a better paid offer in his home country filled out the story. What would you do in that situation? I know I would walk and take my project with me.
1. Re:Selective recall? by raster · 2012-10-31 21:27 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  actually better opportunity was not in my home country... it was in california (vs north carolian)... it was a good move at the time. :)
  
  --
  --------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
2. Re:Selective recall? by DrXym · 2012-10-31 21:31 · Score: 1
  
  Well I did a follow up search and first hit came up with this quote straight from Rasterman himself "They want a windows clone distribution and OS. I do not. They don't believe users really count - corporates and "partners" count and what they percieve as the "business world that wants an exact windows clone" count. "
  So yes I think my summary was correct. I don't think he got who Red Hat's customers were. They were companies stepping into a brave new world of open source and they wanted stuff to be reliable, familiar and clean. They didn't want some unfamiliar, all singing, all dancing eye candy wn / wannabe desktop complete with sound effects and transparency that could easily drag a desktop to its knees even with a lightweight theme (and most were not lightweight). Perhaps interpersonal issues compounded this but at the end of the day Red Hat was there to make money, not to indulge the whims of individual programmers.
3. Re:Selective recall? by DrXym · 2012-11-01 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks but I ran Enlightenment for a while too around the RH5.x timeframe and I know how resource intensive and fiddly it was from experience. But sure thing AC pretend I didn't use if it helps you feel better.
4. Re:Selective recall? by dbIII · 2012-11-01 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  Was AC before due to where I logged in, but my point stands and I used that pentium 60 with a crap graphics card on a simple E theme (something IRIX inspired) for a full year. I suspect you used unique large images as backgrounds on a pile of desktops on a machine without much memory - lots of configuration options meant you could make mistakes like that if you didn't RTFM.
Re:Software fallback? by raster · 2012-10-31 20:58 · Score: 1

rely on software fallbacks *OF OPENGL* i.e. mes'a s software implementations (swrast/llvmpipe). there is a special software rendering engine that is unrelated to opengl in any way or form. it's the same software engine powering the rest of the display/widgets/gadgets/wallpaper etc. it happens to also do the compositing. it ALSO happens to be switchable between software and GL and thus why comopsiting CAN use GL.

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--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Re:Software fallback? by raster · 2012-10-31 20:59 · Score: 1

it is.

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--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Re:Software fallback? by DrXym · 2012-10-31 21:04 · Score: 2

Compositing isn't just about a "pretty desktop". On modern hardware it results in a faster, more responsive desktop. Moving all the window content into graphical surfaces means that the GPU can render the desktop a lot faster. It also means the desktop doesn't have to send out a flurry of damage events when windows are moved around over each other which in turn saves a lot of performance degrading context switches and follow-up repaints. It also means desktops can contemplate using scenegraphs (e.g. clutter) to provide context sensitive functionality which might mean moving windows around or shrinking / thumbnailing / hiding them or whatever.
Now it may be that some desktops throw in eye candy on top, but that doesn't detract from what compositing desktops offer. Even desktops not traditionally known for their looks such as xfce will make use of it if its present.
Re:Software fallback? by raster · 2012-10-31 21:04 · Score: 2

Actually it doesn't pre-date it. it came after GL started to work on Linux, but when GL still was way too immature to use for 2D. in fact it was GL beginning to work on linux back in the earl 2000's that pushed EFL's current design- to plan for a future where GL will be a primary rendering path, but provide a software version for when that doesn't pan out to be the best idea. it was all DESIGNED to abstract between back-end from the ground up and one of the design goals was to use both GL and software back-ends highly efficiently. and it's paid off handsomely now that it's being used for compositing.
E has the best of both worlds. full GL accelerated compositing (if you have the drivers/hardware) or a software version for when you don't. we don't drop features, we just switch which part of your machine is doing the work, and we made sure if it's on a CPU, it'd done fast enough to be totally usable, which it is.

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--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
Re:Software fallback? by raster · 2012-10-31 21:08 · Score: 2

llvmpipe vs evas's software rendering is like comparing a penitum1 and a modern desktop. really llvmpipe is better than swrast but it's still like 10-30fps on a high end modern desktop for the same workload when evas pulls in 60fps+ (it gets limited to 60fps or whatever your refresh/animation rate is, but on the same machine it can pull in 200-300fps for the same workload). that's the point. it's a significantly better software fallback that makes compositing usable.

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--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------