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Seattle's Creepy Cameraman Pushes Public Surveillance Buttons

theodp writes "People seem to be okay with constant corporate or government video surveillance in public. Let a lone individual point a video camera their way, however, and tempers flare. GeekWire takes a look at the antics and videos of Seattle's mysterious Surveillance Camera Man, who walks up to people and records them for no apparent reason other than to make a point: How is what he's doing different than those stationary surveillance cameras tucked away in buildings and public places?" At least with Surveillance Camera Man, you specifically know that he's watching you — not always the case. (Not even when there's no warrant, on private property in the U.S.)

387 comments

  1. Need to take great caution with this by Revotron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One wrong move and this creepy cameraman may end up with harassment charges.

    A prosecutor and possibly a judge may argue that his actions differ from security cameras in the sense that a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area to spot crimes and identify perpetrators. In this case, he is very mobile and instead of filming a predefined area, he films individual people. He walks up to a single person and videotapes them with the intent of aggravating them about being videotaped. That could easily be spun as harassment if he ticks off the wrong person.

    1. Re:Need to take great caution with this by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A prosecutor and possibly a judge may argue that his actions differ from security cameras in the sense that a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area to spot crimes and identify perpetrators.

      I wasn't aware there were regulations limiting the adding of security cameras to places that record what's in the public's view. This is no different than a business putting up a camera on one corner of the building and deciding to move it to another.

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harassment

      The key here seems to be repeated attempts of what he is doing. I'm guessing as long as he doesn't do it after being told to stop he's not harassing anyone.

      Annoying, perhaps but being annoying isn't illegal.

    2. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Zak3056 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A prosecutor and possibly a judge may argue that his actions differ from security cameras in the sense that a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area to spot crimes and identify perpetrators.

      "Fixed in place" is (mostly) true, but "predefined area" does not have to be. PTZ cameras abound, also high megapixel cameras offer digital PTZ, so just because it's pointed at a fixed area doesn't mean that it's somehow limited. One extreme example is Avigilon, which offers a 29MP digital camera. Believe me when I say that the level of detail offered here, and what you can look at is fairly impressive (I've seen a nice demo setup where a single camera with a fairly wide lens is set up on a video wall offering a couple of dozen discrete views).

      Also, I would argue with the logic that "to spot crimes and identify perpetrators" holds any real water. I can cover my neighborhood with cameras just to be a nosy ass, without any real contribution to security.

      While I think this guy's actions are assholish at best, he does raise an excellent point.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    3. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A prosecutor and possibly a judge may argue that his actions differ from security cameras in the sense that a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area

      Could you please cite the law where it says this?

      to spot crimes and identify perpetrators

      You're saying the creepy cameraman wouldn't have been able to record crimes and identify perpetrators? Does he turn his camera off if he thinks he's recording criminal activity? He seems quite agnostic towards what's going on in the field of his camera, much like security cameras.

    4. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In time, someone will beat the shut out if him and destroy his camera. Trial result will be not guilty due to self defense.

    5. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure annoying people counts as harassment. If he followed one person around or threatened them then yes you might have a point but it appears that he's just going up to random individuals from the story. Given that they are in a public place with no expectation of privacy I think he's probably okay legally, granted he could be convicted of being an asshole in the court of public opinion which then leads to people ignoring the fact that he is following the law and charging him anyway. That happens all the time so it is better if you don't try to piss people off.

    6. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I think this guy's actions are assholish at best, he does raise an excellent point.

      That his actions are assholish at best IS the entire point. Surveillance cameras are no less assholish. So if you're opposed to this guy, you must also oppose surveillance cameras.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Hatta · · Score: 1

      a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area to spot crimes and identify perpetrators. In this case, he is very mobile and instead of filming a predefined area, he films individual people

      What's the difference between one mobile guy that takes his camera from point A to point B, and two stationary surveillance cameras at point A and B?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Revotron · · Score: 1

      Could you please cite the law where it says this?

      I never said there was a law that stated this. I said that a judge might see it that way, and as a result, disregard a possible "I'm no different than a security camera" defense.

      You're saying the creepy cameraman wouldn't have been able to record crimes and identify perpetrators? Does he turn his camera off if he thinks he's recording criminal activity? He seems quite agnostic towards what's going on in the field of his camera, much like security cameras.

      No, I'm not saying that. You inferred that from my post, and falsely at that. I'm not saying that he wouldn't be able to videotape criminal acts. All I said was that the obvious purpose of a security camera is to watch a designated area to observe crimes, whereas a reasonable person would see his acts as something completely different. "Reasonable person" is the standard in law by which some things are measured or determined.

    9. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mschaffer · · Score: 2

      Not all "security" cameras are fixed. I am sure many people would be agitated if a drone were buzzing around them.

    10. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Hatta · · Score: 2

      If only someone would pursue similar vigilante justice agains the creeps who put surveillance cameras everywhere.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    11. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So if you're opposed to this guy, you must also oppose surveillance cameras.

      Surveillance cameras don't walk up to you and film you right in your face, nor do they sit down next to you while you're on the phone and record your conversation. These are two completely different scenarios where the only common factor is a video camera.

      I'm opposed to speeding on public roadways, but you don't see me picketing a NASCAR race.

    12. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that a security camera doesn't post the videos on youtube.

      I don't mind being watched by cameras for a good purpose (security/surveillance) but I certainly don't want some random dude invading my privacy.

    13. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ability to record everything you say and do from one foot away and follow you when you leave the surveillance areas and continue to monitor you.

    14. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mark-t · · Score: 5, Funny

      Also, surveillance cameras in public places are installed there under the authorization of people who have been democratically elected by society to preserve the best interests of that society.

    15. Re:Need to take great caution with this by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      One wrong move and this creepy cameraman may end up with fewer teeth than he woke up with.

      FTFY

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    16. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mark-t · · Score: 2

      It's called voting.

    17. Re:Need to take great caution with this by staticdragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've seen plenty of security camera footage on youtube. All it takes is a desire on the part of those with the footage.

    18. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Cryacin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So are you voting Pepsi or Coke for this election?

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    19. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Kurrel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's the difference? Cameras can have extremely high resolutions, digital zoom levels, and parabolic microphones. So they can indeed film you right in your face, and record a quiet conversation, remotely. Would you rather see the cameraman walk up to you, or never know he's there?

    20. Re:Need to take great caution with this by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      No, it can't. You really shouldn't post if you don't understand the law. BTW, you inform every celebrity that they could be using this against every paparazzi. Apparently you know something their lawyers don't. Your comment is FUD of the highest degree. Might I recommend RSS-subscribing to PhotographyIsNotACrime?

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    21. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vandalism is easier to get away with than assault.

    22. Re:Need to take great caution with this by profplump · · Score: 1

      And you know this how? Even if you do actually know they aren't sharing their videos, how do you know that will continue to be true in the future?

    23. Re:Need to take great caution with this by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      One wrong move and this creepy cameraman may end up with harassment charges.

      That's right. Best not stick up or you might be hammered by the law. It's not enough to just say what he is doing is or isn't harassment and he is or isn't being a dick. Because then you might have to acknowledge a lot of pubic surveillance cameras are harassing and the owners are dicks. It just happens that what they do is legal.

      A prosecutor and possibly a judge may argue that his actions differ from security cameras in the sense that a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area to spot crimes and identify perpetrators. In this case, he is very mobile and instead of filming a predefined area, he films individual people.

      And? If he was going around trying to spot crimes and identify perpetrators, it'd suddenly be okay for him to be a dick?

      He walks up to a single person and videotapes them with the intent of aggravating them about being videotaped.

      And 99% of the purpose of most "security cameras" are just like the TSA. They're security theater, with the intent to aggravate thieves into not even trying to steal. Except for when they record employees, security cameras seem very useless a lot of the time because they're generally (a) grainy quality (either due to being cheap equipment, rerecording on old tapes, or having overly high compression), (b) of a bad viewing angle (because people don't like a camera shoved in their face even though they know the camera is there), and (c) are potentially very avoidable if one is so determined (in large part because of (b)). Of course, if the guy had put the camera on his head filming down or wore a hidden camera... Even then, though, "the wrong person" might still be ticked off.

      That could easily be spun as harassment if he ticks off the wrong person.

      Given that a case can only go forward if the prosecutor engages it, what you meant to say is "a person with political connections". Companies can film us peons all they like because we're not "[people] with political connections". Fuck, as much as I never had a problem with Google's Streetview project, the fact is that their efforts could be easily viewed as majorly dickish if it were a crowd-sourced project.

      But even US Congressmen can't do shit about it even though they're "[people] with political connections". Why? Because they're beholden to companies and the idea that companies create jobs. And that, is the root problem, really. If the intent is to "stop thieves" to help business, it's okay. The second it's a single person who wants to do the same thing, they're possibly SOL--and I'm not saying Creepy Cameraman is such a guy. The Almighty Dollar. Is it any wonder they don't want to take "God" off the currency.

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    24. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Surveillance cameras don't walk up to you and film you right in your face, nor do they sit down next to you while you're on the phone and record your conversation.

      Like he said, that's the point. Surveillance cameras don't do those things, which is what makes them worse, since they violate privacy to the same degree, but more discreetly.

      You're acting like it's ok that your snail mail censors reseal the envelops after they read all your mail, but there will be hell to pay if they leave the envelopes open, reminding you that your love letters have already been read by some stranger.

      I'm not saying you shouldn't be pissed at this jerk. I'm saying you should be even more pissed at someone else, who maybe you had forgotten to be pissed at.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    25. Re:Need to take great caution with this by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      My first instinct would be that he and his partner behind my back were attempting to mug me, and I'd probably act accordingly.

      The best way to pick a pocket of someone or otherwise rob them is to distract them first.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    26. Re:Need to take great caution with this by jbwolfe · · Score: 0

      ...no mod points and so very funny. What was his point again...

      --
      Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
    27. Re:Need to take great caution with this by wiedzmin · · Score: 1

      They may be viewed differently from a security camera, but they are almost exactly the same as those of journalists and paparazzi. This case will never fly in court, because a precedence it would set would destroy the media industry.

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
    28. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Actually, there are some laws he could wind up on the wrong end of, even if not perfectly so. Example? No problem: Unless he gets one of these signed for every person he videotapes (and one of these for every recognizeable property, not to mention trademarks) or painstakingly blurs every recognizeable face *and* recognizeable property? He could wind up in civil court from a wide variety of people and entities.

      (Mind you, I'm not saying he would, but that he could.)

      Even if he were perfectly non-liable in civil court and perfectly innocent of any criminal charges, the time, effort, money, and potential loss of freedom (e.g. while awaiting trial) would be more than enough to make his life a living hell.

      Overall? Kudos to him for making a solid and valid point. I agree with the underlying concept - surveillance all over is IMHO a bad idea. OTOH, there has got to be a better way to go about proving the point...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    29. Re:Need to take great caution with this by ClioCJS · · Score: 2

      Again, you're going by wikipedia definitions, not real law. Model releases are for publishing something in a for profit publication. They do not apply to personal photography. At. All. They also only apply to people who are on private property. If you're in public, I can take your photo and publish it in a for-profit publication without a model release. This is *basic* photographers' rights knowledge. I don't know why people who don't know this want to comment as if they are an authority. Total FUD.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    30. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kodos

    31. Re:Need to take great caution with this by war4peace · · Score: 2

      Voting for WHOM? There's no alternative, if you vote for the other guy you just exchange jackasses at a high level. Gratz.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    32. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While I think this guy's actions are assholish at best, he does raise an excellent point.

      That his actions are assholish at best IS the entire point. Surveillance cameras are no less assholish. So if you're opposed to this guy, you must also oppose surveillance cameras.

      A person physically located a few feet away, staring intently, and not observing the social norms of personal space can be perceived as a menace by reasonable people -- that can generate a number of negative reactions, including FEAR. Adding a camera does not magically make this an innocent exercise. Nor does bringing along an ideological axe to grind.

    33. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Funny you should mention FUD... Want an example of that? Okay, here you go (and mind that it's PDF). That was the the result of 5 seconds poking around on Google. Analyze it to your heart's content, but know that you're missing the point of the exercise - read on and you'll see why...

      Like I said in the previous post:
      "Even if he were perfectly non-liable in civil court and perfectly innocent of any criminal charges, the time, effort, money, and potential loss of freedom (e.g. while awaiting trial) would be more than enough to make his life a living hell."

      Seriously - in your rush to 'win' a 'debate', you missed the point entirely: It doesn't matter if it applies to him or not. Doesn't matter one whit if he's perfectly legit or if he's flirting with a long stint in PMITA prison. Let me repeat that: It. Does. Not. Matter. Fact is, he's still flirting with a long expensive legal process that, even if innocent/non-liable, will cost him a shitload of money, time, and possibly freedom.

      All it takes is someone with an axe to grind with the guy, and who can find a lawyer dumb enough to do it on contingency. The rest equals upwards of a year+ of one very expensive living hell for the gent in TFA.

      Do you understand what I was getting at now?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    34. Re:Need to take great caution with this by ClioCJS · · Score: 2
      Facts. 8. This is private property. The case in this slashdot article is about public property. Not the same thing, and I already made the public/private property distinction in my previous comment. You won't find many lawyers who will take a case against a guy like the guy in this slashdot article. Pro bono, you probably won't find one in the country.

      You're actually engaging in FUD by not thinking about the issue clearly, reading what I said, and responding to what was actually said in this slashdot discussion.

      Again: Suggested reading: PhotographyIsNotACrime blog by Carlos Miller.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    35. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Golddess · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cameras can have extremely high resolutions, digital zoom levels, and parabolic microphones. So they can indeed film you right in your face, and record a quiet conversation, remotely.

      1) It's not about the resulting image, it's about the physical device invading ones personal space. You might not think the distinction matters, but I'm sure for most people, it matters greatly.
      2) With the right camera, you can also see heat patterns through walls. But just because someone is ok with one type of recording done at a distance (recording images in the visible spectrum), doesn't mean they are ok with all types of recording done as a distance.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    36. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      I don't know why people who don't know this want to comment as if they are an authority. Total FUD.

      You must be new here.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    37. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Golddess · · Score: 1

      You're acting like it's ok that your snail mail censors reseal the envelops after they read all your mail

      Sounded to me more like AC was under the assumption that surveillance cameras do not generally record audio at a distance. If they do, then I am sure that AC would be against that.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    38. Re:Need to take great caution with this by poity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think there could be other factors at play here besides our initial theory that this is all about expectation of privacy, for example an expectation of not being singled out or not being made a public spectacle.

      I wonder how people would react if someone carried around a camera on a tall pole with a conspicuous sign saying "This camera is recording you" WITHOUT singling out anyone or following anyone. If there is no difference in reaction, then it's evidence that privacy is indeed the primary concern, but if there is a difference in reaction then perhaps considerations other than privacy is the primary concern.

      Something to think about before jumping to conclusions.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    39. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      They're security theater, with the intent to aggravate thieves into not even trying to steal.

      Actually I think it's more like trying to get them to steal from the guy down the street rather than you. Similar to the theory that you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other guy.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    40. Re:Need to take great caution with this by myowntrueself · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So are you voting Pepsi or Coke for this election?

      I'd vote Dr Pepper but they don't have big corporate sponsors pouring bazillions of $$$ into their campaign so I'm not allowed to.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    41. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mark-t · · Score: 2

      The very notion of feeling that you have to choose "the other guy" says that your whole perception of a democratic voting system is flawed.

      Vote for the candidate who genuinely best represents your own ideals. If the best reason you can come up with for not voting for a lesser known candidate who you can identify well with is that you figure he doesn't have a hope in hell of winning, then one of two things is occurring:

      1. You lack confidence in a democratic voting system to adequately represent the views of its population, or else you believe that not enough people share the same values as you to make a difference. The former is only true when people don't vote in a manner consistent with their actual views (which is exactly what you'd be doing yourself if the only reason you had to vote for "the other guy" was because you didn't want his opponent to win). While those who fall into the latter category are selling out their votes for a candidate that they don't even want to support just to get their vote over with, and are, to be quite frank, wholly counterproductive to the democratic process, because the winner of such an election can rarely, if ever, actually reflect the ideals and views of a majority of the voters.

      2. You are afraid of being wrong... or different.

      The first is either hypocritical or lazy. The second is just plain cowardice.

    42. Re:Need to take great caution with this by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      Alas... It's not that, so much as I am surprised the quality of the public doesn't somehow improve over time with regard to awareness to basic rights. Sigh :)

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    43. Re:Need to take great caution with this by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      Actually I think it's more like trying to get them to steal from the guy down the street rather than you.

      I don't really disagree, but then that's paramount to promoting theft--and something I don't think most companies would openly admit to. :) And the UK, of course, takes it to the extreme and tries to make it "steal from the [country] down the [channel] rather than [us]", which is obviously absurd. But, then, that's why I call it all security theater. But, then, in the UK, I guess that'd be security theatre...

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    44. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RC Cola, obviously!

    45. Re:Need to take great caution with this by war4peace · · Score: 1

      No, I just think that the vast majority of voters are stupid, and the vast majority of candidates are tainted. Also, I am not an American, and in my country, currently, with a bit over a month left until parliamentary elections, there are NO clean candidates. There is NO ONE I would vote for. Here, they are all organized in cliques and there's no way around it. The system is closed tight.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    46. Re:Need to take great caution with this by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The right to use cameras in public places is similarly available under the authorization of people who have been democratically elected by society.

    47. Re:Need to take great caution with this by RazorSharp · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that the reason celebrities have to deal with the paparazzi is because they are public personalities. If you consciously choose to live a lifestyle that makes you famous, by doing so you've forfeited many privacy rights that non-famous people enjoy.

      If Variety or some other Hollywood rag published a picture of me I'm pretty sure I could sue them. George Clooney cannot. If a paparazzi nut decided to follow me around with a camera, I'm pretty sure I could have a restraining order issued against him and perhaps have him charged with harassment, whereas Lindsay Lohan probably can't unless he goes to some Princess Diana type of extreme.

      With the PhotographyIsNotACrime thing - I'm pretty sure that public officials on duty ought to qualify as public personas whether they think they actually do or not, and that's the argument they're making.

      Anyway, I don't see how the OP is spewing FUD. While anyone may be photographed in a public space, that's different than standing a few feet in front of someone pointing a camera at them just for the sake of pissing them off. Cameras do have zooms, after all; if you want to photograph/videotape random people in public there's nothing stopping you from doing so discretely. If you're doing something just for the sake of pissing someone off, are you not harassing them? Perhaps not, but the OP didn't say it's an absolute, he just described it as a possibility.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    48. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rights are a fiction invented by people who want things.

    49. Re:Need to take great caution with this by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It doesn't have to go that far. Just tell the cops he appeared to be pleasuring himself while doing it. Then watch the reaction when a cop asks what is he doing and he smiles when replying making a video are you confused.

    50. Re:Need to take great caution with this by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      You really should read the articles linked to (footnotes) from that wikipedia page above poster posted - it specifically addressed non-celebrities. I don't know how to say it nicely, but you're just wrong. Sorry. Research it more.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    51. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's one big difference, and that's that there's a weird guy attached to the video camera, and that's not true for the security cameras.

      I definitely would be angry if someone came up to me and acted like he does. I don't much like security cameras either, but with the guy, I'd guess that what really bothers people is that there's some guy acting in an antisocial, erratic way with his attention fixed on them. I bet if, say, you followed some stranger around pointing at them with just your finger you'd get a similar response.

    52. Re:Need to take great caution with this by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      In the wrong neighborhood, it can even result in getting you ass kicked for looking at someone "hard" whether you are holding a camera or not. I'm surprised there wasn't more violence associated with it.

    53. Re:Need to take great caution with this by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      Sort of off topic, but I kind of liked this cartoon as an answer to that question.

    54. Re:Need to take great caution with this by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about the resulting image, it's about the physical device invading ones personal space.

      Ignorance is bliss.

      If the camera is across the street and recording my conversation or the camera is in my face recording the conversation, the only difference is that I'm aware of the camera in my face.

    55. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm opposed to speeding on public roadways, but you don't see me picketing a NASCAR race.

      NASCAR races on public roadways, nice idea! Mix it with rush hour traffic, it'll make a killing.

    56. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm opposed to speeding on public roadways, but you don't see me picketing a NASCAR race.

      NASCAR doesn't race on public roadways.

    57. Re:Need to take great caution with this by swalve · · Score: 1

      Let him take all the video he wants. He might think he's making a point about surveillance, but what he is really doing is being a bully, getting his jollies by messing with people.

    58. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      The problem is the voting system, fundamentally.

      I went and did the little survey thing on isidewith.com and unsurprisingly I have a 96% match with Jill Stein, by your theory I should vote for her, the problem is that I have an 80% match with Obama and only 15% with Mitt Romney. This isn't a case of the lesser of two evils, it's about choosing the candidate who is capable of winning and whose values most closely match my own. I can see if you disagree strongly with both major parties you should vote third party because you've got nothing to lose, but for most people that's not the case.

    59. Re:Need to take great caution with this by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Umm.. not to be the RTFA guy, but you should at least watch the little TV looking things on the page. There is a lot of private property involved.

    60. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      Except of course whatever my objections to surveillance cameras might be, they're not a creepy fuck shoving a camera into your face. The harassment isn't as such the photography(though photography isn't quite as protected as you might think, more protected than cops like to think, but not as protected as you think), it's the creepy fuck shoving a camera in your personal space, following you around and generally making you feel threatened.

    61. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People do ask him to stop; patiently, politely, and multiple times they ask him to stop. The guy says, "No. It's ok." and keeps on filming. Even when one guy starts to yell at him to stop he further escalates the situation by telling him to "calm down" and that "it's ok."

      The cameraman is a complete tool begging - absolutely begging - for an ass-beating. I hope someone gets a hold of him and kicks the shit out of him.

    62. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let me get this straight. He's doing something non-violent and *LEGAL*, but you hope that someone "kicks the shit out of him".

      You think the proper response for *not* committing an illegal act is to commit assault and battery?

      Tool.

    63. Re:Need to take great caution with this by drkim · · Score: 1

      The problem is that a security camera doesn't post the videos on youtube.

      You're right.

      Some of them stream live:

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%2Fview%2Findex.shtml

      http://www.opentopia.com/hiddencam.php

      http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/Live-Streaming-Cameras-s/395.htm

    64. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Could you please cite the law where it says this?

      I never said there was a law that stated this. I said that a judge might see it that way, and as a result, disregard a possible "I'm no different than a security camera" defense.

      It's not an, "I'm no different than a security camera" defense. It's a, "What I'm doing is legal for *all the same reasons* that privately (and government) owned video cameras are legal" defense. If what he's doing is illegal, then so are traffic cameras, cameras outside stores, etc.

    65. Re:Need to take great caution with this by cyn1c77 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, surveillance cameras in public places are installed there under the authorization of people who have been democratically elected by society to preserve the best interests of that society.

      What about the video cameras in privately owned "public" spaces, like the mall or Starbucks. Or the changing room at your favorite clothing store?

    66. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mark-t · · Score: 1

      What I can't help but find funny is that so many Americans, like yourself, actually do identify most strongly with an independent. But they perceive voting that way as "wasting" their vote. Of course, what that implies is that a good percentage of people who don't vote for the winner have "wasted" their vote. It's a very self centered notion, however... Every vote counts, and the winner reflects the votes of the majority. If you weren't among the ones who voted for the winner, what difference should that actually make in how you live your life for the next 4 years?

      To be frank, I expect that if everybody who actually thought this way decided to abandon their wholly irrational fear of "wasting" their vote, and genuinely vote with their conscience, although I can't say I could seriously imagine an independent winning this election, the impact iut would have on the election outcome would certainly forever change the almost inherent belief in a strict dichotomy when it comes to federal elections in the USA, as more people would wake up to the fact that there really are more than two viable ways to vote, and the following election would be *VERY* different, indeed.

    67. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "legal" part is very questionable.

      And yeah, we all kinda want assholes like this to get slapped around. It's in our nature.

    68. Re:Need to take great caution with this by foofish · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is an extra annoyance factor of having something (or this guy) IN YOUR FACE though. Would you say that a fly buzzing around across the street is just as annoying as a fly buzzing around your face?

    69. Re:Need to take great caution with this by artor3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      if you're opposed to this guy, you must also oppose surveillance cameras.

      That doesn't follow. I'm opposed to random strangers pulling me over while I'm driving, but I recognize that cops sometimes need to. I'm opposed to random strangers going through my bags, but it's okay if the TSA scans them for bombs. I'm opposed to creepy fuckers* filming me on the streets, but I have no problem with ATM's having built-in cameras.

      *(though not this particular one, since he's just making a political statement)

      Intent matters. If you're doing something for the public good, and you show restraint, then that's very different from someone with unknown or unseemly motives. The restraint is important. Going back to my earlier examples, cops pulling people over on fishing expeditions is bad. So is the TSA groping people for ... I don't even know what their reasoning is. So is mounting cameras at every street corner.

      Things aren't as black and white as you'd like them to be.

    70. Re:Need to take great caution with this by SomePgmr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's illegal and what deserves an ass kicking have two very different criteria.

      But there are a number of places I can think of where I would like to see that guy try this stunt. None of them are at a Starbucks in a nice neighborhood.

    71. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? and strategically based several video cameras don't do that? For exampel in the mall? You buy some sexy lingerie, and then and there you meet pretty girl in the cofee shop, 100 meters away from the place? You think all cameras in mall will not be able to see all of it?

    72. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I gotta say that I'm not a fan of surveillance cameras in general. Yes, there are SOME that legitimately do the job they're intended for, but the sheer number of "surveillance cameras" out there is staggering! I understand if a business, small-business, or homeowner wants to use cameras to protect their property or to use them as a deterrent, ATM machines are a good example of this, but between personal cameras, ATM machines, traffic cams, weather cams, store security cams, and even "vehicle backup cameras", there isn't anywhere you can go anymore without being seen by some kind of camera. Granted, I'm not bothered by this because I'm not in the business of breaking the law and don't have to worry about being seen, but it does make you think about George Orwell's book - "1984" and realize that you honestly DO NOT have any personal PRIVACY anymore, from the moment you leave your front door. How long until our government deems it necessary to have cameras installed on our property or IN our homes? Between security cameras, RFID chips, GPS, etc. What's next? When did our personal privacy become the government's concern? Another question could be "WHY is our personal privacy the government's concern? It's been long expected that we'll wake up one day and everyone will be required to have an RFID chip surgically implanted in our bodies, a bar code tattooed on us and God knows what else. There won't be any "paper money", as the bar code will be connected to our bank accounts and we can simply have the automated gas station pump scan our bar code and their computer will debit funds from our account. Yeah, yeah, I know, we're still a ways off from this, but where's the line that is crossed when we say THAT'S ENOUGH!?

      I guess with all my rambling, you can see who I'll be voting for on Nov. 6th, 'eh? lol ...

    73. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Ghaoth · · Score: 2

      Stating the obvious, if it is not illegal, then it is legally permissible. The issue is one of social politeness, a concept that seems to be diminishing with time. The cameraman appears to not have any respect for people's privacy, even when a person objects. So, how do you deal with someone like that? I would imagine that there will be reactions from "ignore him" to "9mm between the eyes".

      --
      Nos Morituri te salutamus
    74. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      Actually I live in Australia now, and I do vote independent because we have instant run off voting here so I can mark a second choice.

      My point however is the fact that it's not as simple a choice as people make it out to be. I may have my disappointments with Obama, but as I said in my original post, compromising from 96 to 80 is worth avoiding 15.

    75. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's no part of your statement where the legality is questionable. The "Creepy Cameraman"'s actions are legal, because recording/photography *in a public space* is legal. Your hoped-for response is illegal, be cause it's assault and battery.

    76. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mark-t · · Score: 1

      "Compromising is worth avoiding...." Why? You'd still be avoiding voting for the guy you really don't agree with if you voted independent, so why bother "compromising"? In the end, if you chose to go for 80 instead of 96, you'd still be voting for someone who doesn't represent your values as much as an alternative candidate. It follows that if the best reason that anyone has for doing that is because they just don't want the other guy to win, then they are defeating the entire point of democracy, which is to elect somebody who best represents the values of the voters. Instead, the election race becomes nothing more than a childish popularity contest, with very little bearing on whether the elected candidate actually represents what the voters desire.

      This isn't school. It's not a quiz... there's no bonus marks for voting for the winner, nor are there penalties for voting for somebody who doesn't win. The point is to exercise your right to express your own values, and to be part of the democratic process. Even if that person doesn't win, the process still ensures that whoever does win will actually represent what most voters decided. And if the guy you really can't stand wins, will it really be the end of the world? If everybody who voted for somebody who didn't get in was that convinced it was going to be so terrible, there would be a mass exodus from America every 4 years, as all the people who didn't vote for the winner just up and decide they can't handle living in the country anymore.

      Of course, the kind of voting practice that I'm advocating looks at a much bigger picture than just a single government term anyways... more like on the order of about a generation or two. It's not likely to make a significant different initially, but as more people do it, the notion that there really are more than two choices will catch on, and will forever change how the public votes... and we can do our part today to give our children, and our children's children, the benefit of increased choice.

    77. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One wrong move and this creepy cameraman may end up with harassment charges. A prosecutor and possibly a judge may argue that his actions differ from security cameras in the sense that a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area to spot crimes and identify perpetrators.

      So there are no 'security' cameras that zoom / pan / tilt ? With a few of those you can follow someone around pretty darn well... And who says you can't carry recording equipment on you for your own security?

    78. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounded to me more like AC was under the assumption that surveillance cameras do not generally record audio at a distance. If they do, then I am sure that AC would be against that.

      Why the automatic assumption that they can not - while assuming that this guys camera also records audio (WE know it does since we've seen/heard the recordings, but the the target at the time of recording doesn't).

      In some areas in the UK they even have 2-way comms so that the operators can talk to/yell at offenders.

    79. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm.. not to be the RTFA guy, but you should at least watch the little TV looking things on the page. There is a lot of private property involved.

      Certainly privately owned - but open top the public. Typically the most that could be done is for the owner to ask him to stop recording leave/not come back.

    80. Re:Need to take great caution with this by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      Walk or drive past an office building on the public highway and you are almost certainly being filmed, the cameras are not "authorised" by anyone by the company who use the building .... no-one has democratically allowed this

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    81. Re:Need to take great caution with this by dwater · · Score: 1

      29MP? Like in a Nokia 808? Though that has a 41MP camera...yeah, it does some interesting things too, along the same lines as you mention.

      Yeah, an excellent point. I wonder how *I* would react...probably not a lot differently to some of them. It makes me think of some comedy shows - a bit like Denis Pennis, for example, where he goes out of his way to be rude.

      --
      Max.
    82. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's quite a few levels removed from the people elected (certainly in the UK, where it's local councils, police and often private companies).

    83. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of those people were in public and as such they had no expectation of privacy. Like that idiot on the phone who was trying to have a "private conversation". You want a private conversation? Then go somewhere private, like your home.

    84. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Why is it ok if the government does it but harassment when I do it?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    85. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Fishing for "funny" mods?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    86. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He would not spend a single day in jail because there is absolutely nothing illegal about what he is doing. Sure, anyone can sue anyone else for any reason at any time. He could simple ignore them, let those people get their judgments against him and just never pay them. There is nothing that anyone can do.

    87. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then stay home. When you are in public, you have exactly zero expectation of privacy.

    88. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surveillance cameras don't walk up to you and film you right in your face, nor do they sit down next to you while you're on the phone and record your conversation.

      No. Surveillance cameras do it without you noticing. Which is worse?

    89. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you feel threatened? It's a camera, not a gun. The next thing you know, you'll want staring outlawed.

      Do you care that airport security has naked pictures of you and that those kind of pictures have been leaked on to the net before? That seems far more invasive than someone just filming people on the street.

    90. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Let me get this straight. He's doing something non-violent and *LEGAL*, but you hope that someone "kicks the shit out of him".

      You think the proper response for *not* committing an illegal act is to commit assault and battery?

      Tool.

      Yes, sometimes the correct response to something non-violent and legal is to use violence.

      If someone (adult) was harrassing one of my kids and making them cry I would feel entirely justified in lamping the fucker, whether what he was doing was legal or not.

      If some neo-Nazis want to have a march, I would feel entirely justified in disrupting it with violence (no, I'm not from the US and do not consider freedom of speech for fascists to be sacrosanct).

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    91. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stating the obvious, if it is not illegal, then it is legally permissible.

      That doesn't make it right. And if something is wrong, people will do something about it, legal or not.

      It may be legally permissible for paedophiles to demonstrate in favour of paedophile rights outside my child's school, I'm still going to go out and attack the fuckers with a cricket bat if the police don't come and truncheon them for me.

    92. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      it does make you think about George Orwell's book - "1984" and realize that you honestly DO NOT have any personal PRIVACY anymore, from the moment you leave your front door.

      In "1984" the surveillance was from the telescreen in your own front room. But slippery slope arguments are always popular on slashdot.

      CCTV cameras can only catch you misbehaving in public, where you have no privacy anyway.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    93. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Voting for WHOM? There's no alternative, if you vote for the other guy you just exchange jackasses at a high level. Gratz.

      Assuming you're from the US, you live in a democracy and have a vote like everyone else. If you can't be arsed to do anything about the political situation, that is your problem.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    94. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      No, I just think that the vast majority of voters are stupid, and the vast majority of candidates are tainted. Also, I am not an American, and in my country, currently, with a bit over a month left until parliamentary elections, there are NO clean candidates. There is NO ONE I would vote for. Here, they are all organized in cliques and there's no way around it. The system is closed tight.

      No system is closed that tight. Look at the Arab spring. People had to risk their lives to do it, but in the end democracy and the will of the majority of people will triumph, as long as people aren't lulled by bread and circuses.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    95. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is, its only intrusive when you're specifically reminded its occurring.

      I think soooo many people here completely fail to grasp a very fundamental and basic point.

      When some random guy creates a video to protect your rights, he's annoying. When the government makes a video specifically to be used against you, they are awesome. Conditioning of the public by the government has been successful.

    96. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely right, there should be some sort of proportional representation or transferaable vote system, so that you could put Jill Stein first, Obama second, and Mitt Romney nowhere. That would then ensure that your vote wasn't wasted and/or ended up as effectively a vote for Romney.

      However, until the system changes, it is still the case that if enough people voted for Jill Stein (or any other non-Republican/Democrat) candidate, there would be momentum away from maintaining the status quo, which there will never be if most people just go on voting for one of the Big Two.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    97. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And if the guy you really can't stand wins, will it really be the end of the world?

      *cough* George W Bush *cough*.

      He never quite got to starting a Middle East centred apolcalypse/rapture, but he certainly presided over the introduction of a whole swathe of almost fascist measures.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    98. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So are you voting Pepsi or Coke for this election?

      Mr Pibb

    99. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wasn't aware there were regulations limiting the adding of security cameras to places that record what's in the public's view. This is no different than a business putting up a camera on one corner of the building and deciding to move it to another.

      Are courts really that literal-minded?

      I don't know what the exact legal definition of harassment is, but in everyday terms, moving a camera from one corner to another is not harassment, since it's not directed at specific persons and normally doesn't cause them discomfort like following them around with a camera does.

    100. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Hatta · · Score: 1

      If the fly is recording my actions, then yes it's exactly the same whether it's across the street or not.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    101. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Actually I think it's more like trying to get them to steal from the guy down the street rather than you.

      I don't really disagree, but then that's paramount to promoting theft--and something I don't think most companies would openly admit to. :) And the UK, of course, takes it to the extreme and tries to make it "steal from the [country] down the [channel] rather than [us]", which is obviously absurd. But, then, that's why I call it all security theater. But, then, in the UK, I guess that'd be security theatre...

      If the CCTV cameras do in fact prevent crime (and BTW are therefore not just security theatre) what's wrong with that?

      Other than infringing on some imaginary right to commit crimes with assured privacy in public spaces, what is the problem exactly?

      But, blah blah blah, Nineteen Eighty Four was a warning not a blueprint, blah blah blah.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    102. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Hatta · · Score: 1

      If you're doing something for the public good, and you show restraint

      Good point. What restraint has been shown on the part of those erecting surveillance cameras on every corner?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    103. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignorance is bliss.

      If the camera is across the street and recording my conversation or the camera is in my face recording the conversation, the only difference is that I'm aware of the camera in my face.

      In Swedish law, precisely that makes the difference between harassment and legal filming. There have been court cases where someone has filmed people for example when changing clothes, and in cases where the victim was aware of the filming, they've been convicted for harassment, but in cases where the victim was unaware, they've been acquitted. The reasoning is that the victim cannot feel harassed if they're not aware of the filming, and the filming itself is not illegal.

    104. Re:Need to take great caution with this by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      One wrong move and this creepy cameraman may end up with harassment charges. A prosecutor and possibly a judge may argue that his actions differ from security cameras in the sense that a security camera is fixed in place and watches a predefined area to spot crimes and identify perpetrators. In this case, he is very mobile and instead of filming a predefined area, he films individual people. He walks up to a single person and videotapes them with the intent of aggravating them about being videotaped.

      What if he backed up a few feet to get a wider angle? Would that make it okay? I agree that he is filming them with the intent of aggravating them. But I think he is also making a good point. The reason they get aggravated is that it is apparent that he is filming them. But the security cameras are inconspicuous and easy to ignore. So the difference really is in the subject's perception.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    105. Re:Need to take great caution with this by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      Why is it ok if the government does it but harassment when I do it?

      It's like the difference between taxation and mugging.

      Oh, sorry, I forgot. This is slashdot and those two are, of course the same thing. Or, rather, taxation is worse, because if yu fight back you will be EXECUTED by the government as all taxation is at the BARREL of a GUN.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    106. Re:Need to take great caution with this by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      There is an extra annoyance factor of having something (or this guy) IN YOUR FACE though. Would you say that a fly buzzing around across the street is just as annoying as a fly buzzing around your face?

      What if the guy stood in the corner of the cafe, filming everyone? Would that be okay, or would people still find that creepy? I think they would find it creepy, even though their personal space was not being violated. The difference is one of perception. You notice the guy, but don't notice the camera. I think this guy makes a good point.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    107. Re:Need to take great caution with this by fifedrum · · Score: 1

      I thought 1984 had surveillance everywhere, posts on the sidewalks, etc.

      I thought they never came out and said it, but Fahrenheit 451 the TV was in use as a surveilence device.

      time to re-read them both

    108. Re:Need to take great caution with this by fifedrum · · Score: 1

      LOL, you think the end result of that will be democracy?

    109. Re:Need to take great caution with this by fifedrum · · Score: 1

      have any one of those "almost fascist measures" been repealed since?

      he's been in power 4 years, he could have repealed them all by now.

    110. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Surveillance cameras don't walk up to you and film you right in your face, nor do they sit down next to you while you're on the phone and record your conversation.

      No, they do it quietly, inobtrusively and with every intent of not drawing the attention of their subjects. And like so many other of the methods used by our government, because you do not feel the pain of it today you allow it to be more and more pervasive and invasive every year. By the time you realize that you have allowed the precedent to be set, volunteered to surrender more and more of your privacy and freedoms, and praised those who take it for making you "safe", you (or your children) will eventually look around and wonder wtf happened to your rights.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    111. Re:Need to take great caution with this by heefeneet · · Score: 1

      It may be legally permissible for paedophiles to demonstrate in favour of paedophile rights outside my child's school, I'm still going to go out and attack the fuckers with a cricket bat if the police don't come and truncheon them for me.

      How about this version, then: It may be legally permissible for gays to demonstrate in favour of gay rights outside my church, I'm still going to go out and attack the fuckers with a cricket bat if the police don't come and truncheon them for me.

      Don't like something? Use violence! The solution to all of life's problems.

    112. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      But just because someone is ok with one type of recording done at a distance (recording images in the visible spectrum), doesn't mean they are ok with all types of recording done as a distance.

      And if they are too intellectually lazy to consider the ramifications of the first it will be too late to have say in the second.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    113. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mark-t · · Score: 1

      It's worth pointing out, however, that even the worst president was still voted for by the majority.

      Ultimately, a huge factor when a person gets into power at all that a lot of people don't agree with is because they compromise on their own values when it comes to voting.

    114. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      If I record you from accross the street in a compromising or embarrasing situation (extramarital affair, eating boogers, etc.) and post it on youtube for the world to see, that is acceptable because I have not invaded your personal space?

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    115. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In "1984" the surveillance was from the telescreen in your own front room. But slippery slope arguments are always popular on slashdot.

      CCTV cameras can only catch you misbehaving in public, where you have no privacy anyway.

      If you're looking for slippery slope, just wait til every TV comes with its own Kinect-style interface instead of a remote. Ta-da!

    116. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Feyshtey · · Score: 1

      Actually what it represents is a realization that the true independent politician doesnt have a massive money-making machine at his disposal building an enormous "war chest" from which he can saturate the airwaves and criss-cross the nation on jets 24x7. He doesnt have the contacts that allow him to barter between those in power and in business to garner their contributions and endorsements. It's an acknowledgement that, like you, most average people cant think past the first or second move in this chessgame, and cant see that their opponent is 5 moves ahead until the game is lost. They are either too lazy or too intellectually dishonest to actually research the candidates instead of wholly basing their judgements on the mud-slinging commercials they are drowned in.

      By his very platform a true independent politician is without all of the institutional juggernauts that ensure an effective campaign. His (or her) quality of character or true passion for the average man are meaningless if no one ever gets the message.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
    117. Re:Need to take great caution with this by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      Yes, a surveillance camera can invade privacy the way this guy does, but we tend to be okay with surveillance cameras because they don't actually do so. It's like saying if you're okay with an armed guard standing over there, you should have no problem with a random guy running around waving a gun in your face.

    118. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm not from the US and I disagree. Freedom of speech for /everyone/ is sacrosanct. The fact that you can't see that just makes you ignorant.

    119. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I hope I never go to your country where arguments are resolved with fists, and victims are mandated to hold their tongues.

    120. Re:Need to take great caution with this by suutar · · Score: 1

      and by then it's 'reasonable', because nobody griped about it. I swear, if I had a time machine I would probably spend quite a bit of time going back to various people at various times and saying "no, be specific! If you want it to not reach a certain point, say that!"

    121. Re:Need to take great caution with this by suutar · · Score: 1

      ... that you know of.

    122. Re:Need to take great caution with this by jalopezp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If freedom of speech is not respected for fascists, then it may not be respected for anyone. Hate speech is always ambiguously defined, and where the line is today, it may not be tomorrow. I'd have thought that with your sig you'd be more inclined to shame and pity racism than to ban it. Finally, if nazi marches were outlawed, no one would have proved their worth in Cable Street.

    123. Re:Need to take great caution with this by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Apparently he does. he's a dreamer, just like old Ozzy, heh.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    124. Re:Need to take great caution with this by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I don't live in the USA (see my comment below) and even in a democracy, having a vote doesn't mean there's anyone who deserves it the way they should. In the US, you can choose between two people. What if both are shit? You might throw your vote away to the third guy (does he even exist?) but you'll accomplish nothing.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    125. Re:Need to take great caution with this by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's not about the resulting image, it's about the physical device invading ones personal space. You might not think the distinction matters, but I'm sure for most people, it matters greatly.

      So if a sniper keeps you in his sights constantly from a distance that is fine, but if he turns on the red dot laser sight and invades your personal space it isn't?

      Extreme example, I know, but the point stands. Surveillance is surveillance, and if anything the fact that you are not aware of it just makes it worse.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    126. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never had a surveillance camera physically follow me around. If one did, I would use violence to destroy it.

    127. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about instead of one creepy guy with a camera following you, there was a network of creepy guys standing still, stationed every 20 feet with practically omnidirectional cameras?

      If you really see a difference between the two, and you think the former is worse, you have some serious problems.

    128. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your little kids are bastard retards, you're just too stupid to see their skin has a different colour than yours and that their mother is a whore. Let's just hope they get cancer and die a slow, painful death.

      Come "lamp" me, e-tough big boy.

    129. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I chop off your arms and legs to prevent you from assaulting other people, and it prevents you from doing so, what is the problem exactly?

    130. Re:Need to take great caution with this by sauge · · Score: 1

      I wonder if the reaction is there because there is someone to yell at versus all the cameras that run automatically.

    131. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool - when was the public election for 'owner of really wealthy bank with surveillance cameras filming the street outside' ?

      Because I'd totally like to run for office and collect my $$$

    132. Re:Need to take great caution with this by screwdriver · · Score: 1

      And it's up to you to determine who has the right to speak or act? Fuck you. Freedom of speech means accepting that someone, somewhere will say something you don't like. Deal with it and move on.

    133. Re:Need to take great caution with this by allseason+radial · · Score: 1

      The problem is that a security camera doesn't post the videos on youtube.

      I don't mind being watched by cameras for a good purpose (security/surveillance) but I certainly don't want some random dude invading my privacy.

      You don't need YouTube. There are whole LEGIONS of surveillance cameras which provide publicly-accessible direct links to their feed in real time. Watch 'em on your browser, anywhere, anytime. Save the images; store 'em on your very own local drive, replay them, modify them, upload them, share them with whoever you want, whenever you want. LOL, set 'em to music.

      Everybody mentions YouTube. WTH? YouTube FTW? Where do commenters think those videos come from? Some retired, part-time nightwatchman risking his job for a laugh and 15 minutes of questionable fame? No. Those videos are uploaded by indemnified nerds who know how to find and access the camera feeds— none of which is any great trick.

    134. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Asmodae · · Score: 1

      This should be in the summary.

    135. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      What is even worse, is that now someone is going to say "there ought to be a law", and a law will be created, that law will be abused and skirted and fudged with and tweaked and reworked and .... AND yet still never really address the problem. Exempt from any new law will be all those security cameras doing the exact same thing this guy is doing.

      And instead of asking a simple question to the statement "there ought to be a law" ("Why"), we are stuck with another law that doesn't do what it was supposed to do. Just because we don't like something, doesn't mean it should be outlawed.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    136. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Knoman · · Score: 1

      Since his camera also records sound he may very well be in violation of Washington States 2 party consent law regarding audio recording: RCW 9.73.030 Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions. RCW 9.73.060 Violating right of privacy — Civil action — Liability for damages.

      --
      "It's an imperfect world,screws fall out..."
    137. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      You are 100% absolutely wrong. Intent doesn't matter, what matters is what happens. A cop can pull me over because he has authority, and therefore is subject to higher level of scrutiny. If he abuses that authority (granted by society) then ostensibly he will be subject to harse consequences.

      The TSA example is bogus as anything else. I am opposed to the TSA invasion of privacy because it does nothing to prevent the things it is purported to be preventing. Civilians have stopped the last several attempts at hijacking. What 9/11 did was ruin hijacking for the hijackers, they may kill some of the passengers, but they won't kill all of them, not accomplish any further objectives.

      The increasing nature of the surveillance society is down right scary, where every public move you make is being recorded. There is no freedom if your every move is monitored and indexed on servers somewhere.

      We live in the Truman Show and 1984 ... and big brother is watching. Indeed god has been replaced by Government and Google. At least (according to atheists) god doesn't exist. I prefer those days.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    138. Re:Need to take great caution with this by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      And 99% of the purpose of most "security cameras" are just like the TSA. They're security theater, with the intent to aggravate thieves into not even trying to steal.

      Yet they keep stealing; few stores are without them, and shoplifting still happens.

      Last year my house was burglarized, and the burglars stole a box of blank checks. The first thing they did was forge one and try to cash it at my bank. The cops checked the bank's footage, and the burglar was in jail that night.

      Of course one of the cops probably has my Epiphone... I never got any of the stolen items back.

    139. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      There is a lot of "private property" involved might be true. A mall is "private property" however it is also "public place" (open to the general public without reservation (normally). Additionally, there are government (public) locations that are closed off to normal public access. Heck there are even public right of ways on private property (beach access) that normally wouldn't allow any public access (aka easements).

      In other words, there are a lot more distinctions between "public property" and "private property".

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    140. Re:Need to take great caution with this by RocketRabbit · · Score: 0

      Careful buddy, people pack heat these days. If you tried to lamp me, even if you thought I was somehow irritating your little shits, I'd permanently put your lights out. Then your little shits wouldn't be able to learn your doctrine of poor self control.

      If you don't want random strangers acting in ways you feel are not approved by you, stay the fuck out of public places. Otherwise, you might be eating lead and directly causing you crotchlings to be orphans (naturally your wife would die of grief after viewing your mangled, broken corpse).

    141. Re:Need to take great caution with this by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      There is an extra annoyance factor of having something (or this guy) IN YOUR FACE though. Would you say that a fly buzzing around across the street is just as annoying as a fly buzzing around your face?

      Now you know how famous people feel when they try to live their lives.

    142. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it's okay if I do something you would find objectionable so long as you don't see me do it? So if I followed you around, tailing you all day, from place to place and you didn't see me you wouldn't mind me videotaping you picking your crack and sniffing it?

    143. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Golddess · · Score: 1

      So if a sniper keeps you in his sights constantly from a distance that is fine, but if he turns on the red dot laser sight and invades your personal space it isn't?

      Depends if the person in the sight can feel the red dot on them. Of course feelings may vary for a variety of other reasons with that example.

      Surveillance is surveillance

      The point I was making is that it isn't the video surveillance necessarily that people have a problem with, it's with the proximity of the physical device to their face. They aren't angry with the guy for video-taping them, they are angry with him for being up in their face.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    144. Re:Need to take great caution with this by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      Funny you should mention FUD... Want an example of that? Okay, here you go (and mind that it's PDF). That was the the result of 5 seconds poking around on Google. Analyze it to your heart's content, but know that you're missing the point of the exercise - read on and you'll see why...

      Like I said in the previous post:
      "Even if he were perfectly non-liable in civil court and perfectly innocent of any criminal charges, the time, effort, money, and potential loss of freedom (e.g. while awaiting trial) would be more than enough to make his life a living hell."

      Seriously - in your rush to 'win' a 'debate', you missed the point entirely: It doesn't matter if it applies to him or not. Doesn't matter one whit if he's perfectly legit or if he's flirting with a long stint in PMITA prison. Let me repeat that: It. Does. Not. Matter. Fact is, he's still flirting with a long expensive legal process that, even if innocent/non-liable, will cost him a shitload of money, time, and possibly freedom.

      All it takes is someone with an axe to grind with the guy, and who can find a lawyer dumb enough to do it on contingency. The rest equals upwards of a year+ of one very expensive living hell for the gent in TFA.

      Do you understand what I was getting at now?

      It's worth remembering that some Americans are still willing to put themselves out there for beliefs that are important to them.

      Also remember that the ACLU will back this guy to the hilt. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, even if you don't like the individual or circumstances.

    145. Re:Need to take great caution with this by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I don't discount that, but the guy was going into businesses itself with no intent of doing business and even after being asked repeatedly to leave. In my area, if anyone who has a right to control some land, business or not, asks you to leave and you do not or return shortly after leaving, it is considered criminal trespassing. I doubt it is actually all that much different in Seattle. Even businesses who would accept people from the public streets have private property rights.

    146. Re:Need to take great caution with this by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I don't think proximity had anything to do with it, they were merely upset at being overtly recorded with a human being watching them. Somehow when we see a camera we don't associate it with some voyeur sitting in a room somewhere watching it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    147. Re:Need to take great caution with this by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 1

      If the CCTV cameras do in fact prevent crime (and BTW are therefore not just security theatre) what's wrong with that?

      Security theatre works some times because some criminals are (a) stupid enough to believe it's real and/or (b) stupid enough to be caught by the very bad security actors. As for what's wrong with it, how about that it treats 100% of the populace as very potential criminals and is generally creepy?

      Other than infringing on some imaginary right to commit crimes with assured privacy in public spaces, what is the problem exactly?

      Oh, I don't know... Perhaps it has something to do with CCTVs are like locks, they help keep honest people honest (ie, they work to keep the already low crime rate marginally lower); meanwhile, constantly tracking overwhelming honest people in public spaces is very dickish. So, hey, it might well be perfectly legal to do. That doesn't mean I really want to do business with dicks.

      But, blah blah blah, Nineteen Eighty Four was a warning not a blueprint, blah blah blah.

      No, that's the wrong book. You want something closer to It Can't Happen Here. Of course, the truth is the whole government involvement isn't needed when enough companies go along with it and enough people are complicit in letting it happen. The funniest part is that "for the children" is almost certainly the excuse. "For the children" is how smutty or even semi-smutty magazines were banned from the shelves--yet still available behind the counter. Meanwhile, "for the children" is used to justify CCTV to catch potential creepy perps running off with their kids--a very uncommon thing--and meanwhile it ignores that CCTV can be constantly used by creepy perps to stare at their kids--made even creepier with the whole TSA body scanners.

      In short, it really comes down to priorities and who people place their faith in. What Creepy Cameraman really proves is that no matter what, there's a person behind the camera and they could be just as creepy as he is. So, it's hard for me to place a lot of faith in CCTVs as a general point. :/

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    148. Re:Need to take great caution with this by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Violence is like duct tape, if it doesn't fix the problem you didn't use enough. It's also the root of all power.
      I personally wear pants every day at gunpoint.

    149. Re:Need to take great caution with this by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      Just watch your ass and if you can't keep your fists to yourself, stay out of public.

      Kinda sad that you didn't have the balls to post other than AC though, which kind of indicates that you wouldn't actually dare to punch somebody out anyway.

    150. Re:Need to take great caution with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he are doing "something non-violent and *LEGAL*" why is he running after word "POLICE" and "911"?

  2. Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Stationary surveillance is not obtrusive. This guy is obstructing the persons' line of sight and getting in their way. He's also recording the audio of what people are saying. This is more like harassment to prove a point. If he was across the street recording then I doubt anyone would even care.

    1. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Stationary surveillance is not obtrusive. This guy is obstructing the persons' line of sight and getting in their way. He's also recording the audio of what people are saying. This is more like harassment to prove a point. If he was across the street recording then I doubt anyone would even care.

      So tell me where is this codified? I've not read anything that says "thou shalt use stationary only and not robotically controlled tracking cameras and this shall be okay" and the audio part, I'm very curious where you found that it was not okay to get audio with your video? Also, he clearly doesn't get any audio from the security guard until the security guard comes out and tells him to get lost. So I'm confused about how you're justifying some incidences over others.

    2. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Stationary surveillance is not obtrusive. This guy is obstructing the persons' line of sight and getting in their way.

      I watched one of his videos. Typically, people notice him and move in *his* direction. Others appear to intentionally go out of their way to swat at him (wouldn't that be assault?) Another time a guy started walking away, only to turn around and swat at him. One time he sat down at a table with someone else. Another time he was video taping someone through a window. A few times he was looking into someone's parked car from beside it, which is hardly "in their way".

      Not a single time did he intentionally get in anyone's way. Not a single time did he block anyone's line of sight, until they intentionally turned to face him. Sounds to me like you're just making shit up and didn't bother to watch the videos to make sure your claims could withstand 5 minutes of verification.

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    3. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      Apparently you didn't watch the videos where he kept opening the door and pushing his way into the scientology church. Or the active classrooms. Or where he went through what appeared to be an unmarked door (so definitely not a storefront or something) and climbed the stairs to watch a bunch of people playing mahjong.

      Antics like these really defeated the point of this production in my mind. He was not in a public place and had already been asked to leave. He was trespassing. He should have stuck to taping parked cars or windows from the sidewalk.

      --
      Bottles.
    4. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 1

      Here's the video I watched. I didn't listen with any audio, so I have little clue what's going on. But I did not see any of what you say.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bT1ZfRtrJc

      Besides that, people in a classroom are sitting down, so I don't see him being in their way. Climbing some stairs and watching people play mahjong is not getting in their way. If he is pushing his way into a private area and refuses to leave when asked, then yeah the guy deserves a trespassing charge.

      --
      :(){ :|:& };:
    5. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by slashdyke · · Score: 1

      I am just curious about the recording audio comment. If you are referring to his recording peoples speach, then any camera pointing at someone's face does the same for lip readers. Granted they won't be able to read your lips when you are facing away from the camera, but in some places there are enough cameras that there is no 'looking away'.

    6. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by war4peace · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What makes me wonder is that pretty much NOBODY managed to handle the issue gracefully. I was trying to put myself in their shoes and I am positive I would have started to talk to the guy, trying to find his reasons, in a polite way. I don't mind being filmed as long as I can find the reason.
      Almost everyone being filmed there, on the other hand, acted aggressively, from "stop" to violent movements towards the guy or even hitting him. Maybe it's a different culture, maybe taught privacy is so strong that people forget reasoning and start acting irrationally.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    7. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go to a bank, cover your mouth, and yell "THIS IS A ROBBERY I'VE GOT A GUN GIMME ALL YOUR MONEY" and see if it doesn't turn out that they're recording the audio of what people are saying too.

    8. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, if someone gets in your face or uncomfortably near you and photographs, then swatting at them is not assault, iI consider it to be self defense.

      If you (used generically) photograph someone or something that is private property, then you had better be prepared for you and your equipment to get some roughing up a bit if you don't stop the moment someone tells you to stop.

      Put me on a jury, any assault charge brought forth on a person who hit a photographer and his/her equipment would get a NOT GUILTY from me. Even if it meant a hung jury and mistrial, tough shit.

      You always, always, always have to ask for permission before you photograph anyone, even moreso since digital photography is sharable data. If someone tells you to delete the photo(s), then you delete the photo(s). Otherwise, you as a photographer get what you and your equipment more or less deserve. Too bad if the antiquated laws make it legal.

    9. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Ksevio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or more likely, the people that handled the issue gracefully were too boring to upload, so he moved on.

    10. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it ok if I stand here swinging my arms beside you? How about if I start kicking air?

    11. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      What makes me wonder is that pretty much NOBODY managed to handle the issue gracefully.

      Its called "editing"

    12. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stationary surveillance is not obtrusive. This guy is obstructing the persons' line of sight and getting in their way. He's also recording the audio of what people are saying. This is more like harassment to prove a point. If he was across the street recording then I doubt anyone would even care.

      So tell me where is this codified? I've not read anything that says "thou shalt use stationary only and not robotically controlled tracking cameras and this shall be okay"

      Spot on.
      Although in the third video, where he enters the Scientology joint 4 times, being asked to leave each time, it might qualify as harrassment. (Not that I mind -- I have my own Fair Game policy where CoS is concerned...)

      and the audio part, I'm very curious where you found that it was not okay to get audio with your video?

      Doesn't everyone know? Wiretap laws!

      In most states (and under federal law), it's illegal to record any conversation without consent or notification of one party (or a warrant). So I can (and do) have an app on my phone that records all calls*, but an unauthorized third party can't. The other states are stricter, requiring all parties consent or be notified. While intended to protect phone conversations, the laws apply to all conversations -- thus, this guys in trouble if he comes behind someone talking on the phone or in person. If he's in front, the conspicuous camera may count as notification, but it's questionable.

      *Naturally I'm legally required to disable this app when talking to someone in an all-party notification state. Naturally I give so much fuck about the law that I am always very careful to strictly observe this law.

    13. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that a mosh pit?

    14. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great! The next time I see a news crew recording, I'm going to be talking on my phone and have them busted for illegal wiretap.

      Also, you're wrong. In most states it is perfectly legal to record a two party call without notifying anyone. You only need consent if the call involves three or more parties.

    15. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by 0x537461746943 · · Score: 1

      "Almost everyone being filmed there, on the other hand, acted aggressively"

      We do not know how many people were actually tested in this way. This might be the 25 out of 2000 which were the most disturbed. The other 1975 people might have gracefully handled the situation. I don't believe that but we just don't know.

    16. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Bardez · · Score: 3

      The videos are clearly edited to make people look more like assholes. You can see time gaps in the first one linked in TFA, and the later ones are edited a bit less obviously.

      --
      Perception is the thin dividing line between reality and fiction.
    17. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by war4peace · · Score: 1

      You are right. Maybe the author handpicked the more extreme situations. However, the taxi driver acted nicely, he was funny. I'd give him a prize.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    18. Re:Stalking vs Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, you're full of shit. News crews have conspicuous microphones, satisfying the notification requirement; it's not clear what sort of camera this guy has, but from how many people say "taking pictures", I suspect it's a digital camera and thus not conspicuous as an audio recorder.

      And I don't know where you got that "three or more parties" rubbish. I suspect you're misunderstanding the common case where one of the parties is doing the recording, and thus naturally is aware of it. Regardless of why you think it, it's false, and even if it were true, you have no way of knowing the dude is not in a three-way call.

  3. Public vs private by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course many would like to think that "public" surveillence camera are safer with pre-screened employees. Given the abuse, injure, rob, thieve record of TSA, the kill-sorry-wrong-house adventures of various city and federal agencies, and various asset forfeiture abuses these past 25 years, is no strong reason to believe this more than the tooth fairy.

    1. Re:Public vs private by inKubus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Right, it's classic cognitive dissonance due to imperfect information. You can't see the security guard watching the surveillance camera video, so you assume it's fine. Whereas on the street, you are afforded more of a choice and so you take it. Unfortunately this, from an economic prospective, puts security guards with access to surveillance footage at a relative advantage to everyone else as far as having access to video. But what people don't take into account is that the kind of people who are attracted to the job are also the people who enjoy having that relative advantage. Thus, over time, it's likely the worst people you'd want to have access to video footage of you will have it and the people you'd most want to have it won't. Video is video, and that's the point this guy is trying to make. Just because you can face your accuser in this case doesn't make what he's doing any WORSE than other surveilance. But people feel it is because they associate it with a person. Any strong power that can make use of this advantage will have a very strong position of power due to the information imbalance.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    2. Re:Public vs private by Jyunga · · Score: 1

      I have no issues with some security guard watching me behind a computer screen... I would have an issue if the guard was talking over the PA system about how he was watching me and listening to my conversation on the phone and then proceeded to upload my reaction to youtube.... and I bet when I made a stink about it he would lose his job. One of these days he'd going to get assaulted in front of a surveillance camera and I bet he won't be against having the footage used to prove his assailants guilt.

    3. Re:Public vs private by m00sh · · Score: 1

      Just because you can face your accuser in this case doesn't make what he's doing any WORSE than other surveilance. But people feel it is because they associate it with a person. Any strong power that can make use of this advantage will have a very strong position of power due to the information imbalance.

      The output of surveillance cameras are vastly different than regular cameras. They provide an unappealing high-above kind of view. They are as exciting as watching the satellite views of cities, informative but ugly. Security guards will have to be trained to comprehend the output of these videos rather than these videos producing a vision of peeping tom's fantasy. I don't see surveillance video monitoring security guard more appealing a job than a plain old security guard job.

      In the future, everyone will have wearable cameras and record everything. In Russia, dashcams are required by law and I'm sure it will be the same in the US as well in the future. Cyclists and runners are advised to have some sort of helmet or chest cam in case of accidents. Flash memory storage is getting cheaper and as low power video encoding boards come to market, it will be a part of our cellphone computing environment we carry around. In the future, it won't be just one person recording but everyone doing it.

  4. File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    1. Re:File this under.. by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 2

      Nah, but three lefts do.

      --
      Mostly random stuff.
    2. Re:File this under.. by YodasEvilTwin · · Score: 1

      Actually you usually end up a block behind where you wanted to be, given that 270 degree turns on a dime are rarely made.

    3. Re:File this under.. by MarkGriz · · Score: 1

      And I'm wagering that's exactly what he's gonna get, right to the face.

      --
      Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
    4. Re:File this under.. by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He's not trying to make a right. He's trying to call attention to a wrong.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you miss your right turn onto a 1-way street, 3 lefts starting at your next intersection are your best bet (if you don't know another way to your destination).

    6. Re:File this under.. by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 1

      And by extension, then four wrongs can't make an airplane

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    7. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have one of these freaks in Madison, WI. I saw him last spring at the mall.

    8. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Split the country in half. Outlaw security cameras in one half and I will move to the half where security cameras are allowed.

      Crime is wrong. The more security cameras the more wrongs you will prevent.

    9. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was killing Nazis in WWII wrong, then?

      Please grow beyond gradeschool-level ethics.

    10. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to tell you this, but a security camera doesn't *prevent* much of anything. It may, depending on the quality of the captured video, make it easier to apprehend the person who 'did wrong', but it won't prevent it. Case in point: any convenience store security camera getting played on the news to illustrate how the place was just robbed by some idiot with a knife.

    11. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surveillance isn't wrong. The innocent remain innocent, but they can go to the camera recordings to catch the suspect when a crime does occur.

      If anything, there are too few stationary cameras and not enough security and police officers monitoring them.

    12. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Three lefts make an assault and battery charge.

    13. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heinlein's Coventry, sorta... interesting.

    14. Re:File this under.. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I hate to tell you this, but a security camera doesn't *prevent* much of anything. It may, depending on the quality of the captured video, make it easier to apprehend the person who 'did wrong', but it won't prevent it. Case in point: any convenience store security camera getting played on the news to illustrate how the place was just robbed by some idiot with a knife.

      The fact that there are stupid and desperate criminals out there doesn't mean it isn't worth catching them and teaching them a lesson.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    15. Re:File this under.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Statistics show that most crimes are committed predominantly with the right hand, or with the left if the criminal is left-handed. If I cut off your right hand (or your left, if you are left-handed) then I will be making it more difficult for you to commit a crime. Crime is wrong. Therefore you should have no problem with sacrificing your hand to prevent it.

    16. Re:File this under.. by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      So, not familiar with the constitution, then?

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  5. Public surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have absolutely no issues with public surveillance, as long as this applies doubly so to the "surveillers". All public officials (including elected officials and law enforcement officials) must submit to full time surveillance during when performing public duty in public spaces and public events. These records need to be available to the general public to ensure that the power granted to them by the people is not abused.

    As far as public surveillance of civilians is concerned, this is already in place considering the number of security cameras around. Besides if you are in a public space, you implicitly agree to follow the laws for availing of the use of said public space. I can't think of a single reason why anyone should be against public surveillance in public spaces (except the obvious restrooms) unless they are breaking the law. If you want to do something that you are ashamed of (or could be potentially embarrassed by), do it in a private space.

    1. Re:Public surveillance by inKubus · · Score: 2

      I think there should definitely be surveillance cameras in the rooms where the other cameras are monitored, which are monitored at a different location by a separate agency.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    2. Re:Public surveillance by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      I think there should definitely be surveillance cameras in the rooms where the other cameras are monitored, which are monitored at a different location by a separate agency.

      Those secondary monitoring cameras should in turn be displayed on monitors located near to the original cameras...

  6. So, To Summarize... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Person with no concept of personal space gets in someone's personal space to make a point about a topic completely unrelated to personal space.

    1. Re:So, To Summarize... by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "You even look like a dumb fuck."

      Funniest part of the video and sums up my feelings on the whole project. This has nothing to do with surveillance and everything to do with a sociopath making people uncomfortable.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:So, To Summarize... by Ichijo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, it can be uncomfortable to have your beliefs or your security measures challenged, but sometimes they need to be.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    3. Re:So, To Summarize... by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the dude had no camera, it would be almost the same thing. Walk up to a guy sitting in a car and just stare in the window. Sit down at a table with someone talking on the phone. Stare in through a plate-glass window at someone eating, then when they move, follow them inside. No camera, the reaction would have been the same.

      I get the point he was trying to make. I may even agree a bit. He just did a horrendous job of making that point and instead behaved like a sociopath, and because he had a camera rolling we get to see what people do when sociopaths interact with normal (or even abnormal) people.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:So, To Summarize... by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      What makes you think he has no concept of personal space? Nobody ignorant of the concept would have known to do this shit. I, for one, kind of like this asshole.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    5. Re:So, To Summarize... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without the camera, someone who got angry and punched the starer in the face would have absolutely no defense. With the camera, most people would agree there is provocation. Clearly, most people want to be in control of being filmed, or at least informed about it.

      All this video is missing is a few questions the guy could ask to steer them into reassessing how they feel about surveillance.

    6. Re:So, To Summarize... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has nothing to do with surveillance and everything to do with a sociopath making people uncomfortable

      As opposed to FaceBook, Google and a number of other companies, which have something to do with surveillance and everything to do with making sociopaths rich.

    7. Re:So, To Summarize... by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      I agree completely. So the question becomes. Why does Slashdot post stories such as this one? It's only going to continue eroding its user base if it keeps on posting click-bait such as this.

    8. Re:So, To Summarize... by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

      ....
      I don't think having a camera in someone's face is reason to assault them. Maybe since you see celebrities assaulting paparazzi makes you think it's ok.
      In this day and age, cell phone tracking, video taping, drone surveillance, wiretapping, packet snooping, credit card purchases, gps tracking, browser history, etc. etc etc there is literally no way you can escape being watched and monitored. Some people are fooled to think they have the illusion of privacy, but shatter that reality and they freak out, like their rights are being trampled. But all along they were on public display (semi-public, but the information is out there and people do use it). If you don't want to be video taped by a strange man, then all public video taping should be illegal, not just some.
      Everyone uses the excuse about safety. Show me a case where surveillance prevented crime? It's always an after thought to catch people sometimes. Criminals know where the cameras are and just avoid them anyways.

    9. Re:So, To Summarize... by LordLucless · · Score: 0

      Security cameras are totally sociopathic (they're inanimate, they have to be). He's behaving like a sociopath in plain view to draw attention to the sociopaths hiding in the corners.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    10. Re:So, To Summarize... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... uncomfortable about being recorded. Meanwhile real surveillance is all about hiding the degree to which you are recorded, to give you comfort through complacency.

    11. Re:So, To Summarize... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Cameras are not sociopathic. I'm not really sure how to respond to giving a diagnosis to a camera.

      Anyway, most of the things he did would have elicited the same response with or without a camera. Ever stared through a window at a guy eating? Then, when the guy moves away from the window, did you go inside after him? You probably haven't, because you probably aren't a sociopath. Have you ever sat down uninvited at a table with a man having a phone conversation, when all of the other tables are available and clean? Probably not. Have you ever stared in a car window at someone sitting in their car? I doubt it.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    12. Re:So, To Summarize... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      He makes a great point with the biker. Biker says "I don't like to be videod" Psycho says "You came from the store?" Biker shrugs and responds "yeah so..." Very valid point, "you don't like me videoing you, but you don't mind the store."
      But to sit down at someone else's table? Camera or no camera, that is a bit rude. If he stood there that would be a bit different, but to sit down?
      Videoing the guy through the window.. a bit odd, but ok... To enter the business (what looks like through a back door?) Rude, and probably illegal. Maybe the guy doesn't like to be filmed, so he has his back to the security camera in the room?
      I understand this guys point, but he is making it incorrectly.

    13. Re:So, To Summarize... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say the moron who said that looked infinitely more of a "dumb fuck" than the person filming. I would love for some piece of shit to try to stop me from enjoying my right to film in public. It would give me an excuse to stomp the fucker into the dirt.

    14. Re:So, To Summarize... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The biker was not too bad, though you'd still react oddly to a person staring at you as you come out of a store. The other one that was fine was when he imitated a regular camera crew and filmed the person being escorted out.

      If I were to attempt to make a point about this, I would set up a camera zoomed into a spot. Then I would wait for someone to occupy that spot (say, the Starbucks table) and walk over with a tablet streaming the picture. Show the person that they are being recorded. Point to the camera. See if they like that feeling. Instead, he ends up making a one-man freak show tape. I have to agree he is probably a "dumb fuck" :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    15. Re:So, To Summarize... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Yes, it can be uncomfortable to have your beliefs or your security measures challenged, but sometimes they need to be.

      If you want to challenge my beliefs or security measures, you can have a debate or conversation with me if I agree to it. If you just start harrassing me in the street I'll assume you're a criminal or psychotic assailant and take necessary measures to defend myself, up to and including stuffing your camera up your arse.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    16. Re:So, To Summarize... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Show me a case where surveillance prevented crime? It's always an after thought to catch people sometimes. Criminals know where the cameras are and just avoid them anyways.

      You are assuming that all criminals are cool, calculaitng and intelligent. The sort of people who get drunk and attack strangers for looking at them funny in city centres are not, but they still deserve to be caught and punished. And CCTV is actually quite good for that, because even the most stupid and pissed individuals are unlikely to carry out assaults with a couple of policemen watching and taking notes.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:So, To Summarize... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Security cameras are totally sociopathic (they're inanimate, they have to be). He's behaving like a sociopath in plain view to draw attention to the sociopaths hiding in the corners.

      No offence, but if you think inanimate objects have human personality traits you probably need psychiatric help yourself.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    18. Re:So, To Summarize... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I agree completely. So the question becomes. Why does Slashdot post stories such as this one? It's only going to continue eroding its user base if it keeps on posting click-bait such as this.

      Who would bother putting "click-bait" on slashdot when only a tiny minority of people ever read TFA anyway?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  7. If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why isn't he following politicians and LEO's?

    Seriously, man, I hate ubiquitous surveillance as-much-if-not-more than the next guy - following me around doesn't prove anything, except that you're an asshole with entirely too much free time.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He did for follow a security guy though. I thought it was a ingenious. The security guy cannot really leave, whatever he is guarding. He knows he cannot attack the camera man. He also knows what the camera man is doing is legal. Borderline harassing, but very difficult to prove harassment.

    2. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      following me around doesn't prove anything, except that you're an asshole with entirely too much free time.

      In Seattle? That's hard to believe!

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    3. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by Larryish · · Score: 1

      new movie:

      Tactless in Seattle

    4. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by Hatta · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Following you around with a camera does prove something. If surveillance cameras don't bother you as much as this guy does, that's proof that you're a hypocrit. You don't want to be a hypocrit do you? No? Then you better start hating surveillance cameras and complaining loudly about them.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Following you around with a camera does prove something. If surveillance cameras don't bother you as much as this guy does, that's proof that you're a hypocrit. You don't want to be a hypocrit do you? No? Then you better start hating surveillance cameras and complaining loudly about them.

      I hate ubiquitous surveillance as-much-if-not-more than the next guy

      Too busy formulating your angry response to read what I actually wrote?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    6. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      new movie:

      Tactless in Seattle

      He's lucky it's not Toothless in Seatte.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    7. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by Larryish · · Score: 1

      Even worse would be

      Toothless in San Francisco

      That might draw the wrong sort of attention.

    8. Re:If He's Trying to Prove a Point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So having someone follow you around starring at you and recording you in specific is the same thing as a security camera pointed at a specific spot being recorded to a loop with no one watching it until something happens. I didn't realize that.

  8. The difference... by skelly33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the difference is that you never know what some a-hole private individual is going to do with video footage of you including, but not limited to:

    * Adding it to his private collection of masturbation material
    * Posting it on YouTube for everyone to enjoy a good laugh at your expense
    * Modify the material and use it for blackmail/extortion/public humiliation
    * Worse?

    With corporate cameras, odds are much higher that the footage is going onto a temporary buffer which will eventually (usually 1 week to 1 month kind of time frame) be wiped out and replaced by the next day's worth of footage. With corporate cameras, the fixed field of view, the image is general. With an asshat like this guy, you are specifically targeted (reference list above as to why that is a problem). Occasionally we see these situations in the news such as TSA staff intercepting and/or duplicating video/images of passengers moving through the line. That is not acceptable behavior. When they are caught, they should be terminated as their actions are inappropriate.

    1. Re:The difference... by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      I agree, they should be put to death.

      or did you mean their employment should be 'Terminated', as opposed to their existence?

    2. Re:The difference... by YodasEvilTwin · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't think laws are based on "odds". It's like saying it's OK to stab someone in the foot but not in the neck, since the former is less likely to kill them!

    3. Re:The difference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I fail to see the difference if it's some a-hole with his own camera or an a-hole in a room in a building working for someone. Sure, they might be afraid of losing their job if they do the wrong thing, but at the end of the day it's still some creep looking at pictures of you.

      Besides, the real problem here is that we DON'T know what anyone's doing with surveillance photos - doesn't matter who the individual is. I know it's easier to get upset at one person, because he has a face and he gets up in yours. But that doesn't change the reality of the surveillance situation.

      At least he's calling attention to the issue, even if it pisses people off. Not in a classy way, not in a particular intelligent or friendly way, but he's doing it.

    4. Re:The difference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think laws are based on "odds". It's like saying it's OK to stab someone in the foot but not in the neck, since the former is less likely to kill them!

      Really? Because I seriously, really believe there's a difference between a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and actual first-degree murder. But hey, whatever makes you feel more smug, man, go with it.

    5. Re:The difference... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      It's like saying it's OK to stab someone in the foot but not in the neck, since the former is less likely to kill them!

      Well, you'd probably get grevious bodily harm for stabbing someone in the foot, but attempted murder for stabbing them in the neck. So, there is a difference, legally.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:The difference... by Hatta · · Score: 2

      With corporate cameras, odds are much higher that the footage is going onto a temporary buffer

      A false sense of security is worse than no sense of security.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:The difference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I did some IT work for a surveillance company once and you know what they do when they're bored? Go through old video looking for "weirdos", "sexy bitches" and criminal activity just for the LULZ

      So if you think that passive eyeball hanging in the roof doesn't somehow connect to a weak and demented human being at some point in the chain you're delusional.

      It's also kind of freaky where some cameras are, take a good close look to the "jumble o' crap" wall in a chain coffee store, you might be surprised to find a camera hiding the eye of that cute teddy bear or part of that quaint "tile" fresco :-/

    8. Re:The difference... by Loosifur · · Score: 1

      ...no, no, it really isn't like that at all. In fact, I just wasted ten minutes of my life trying to fix your analogy and was totally unable to do so. You'd be better off comparing it to a car or something, at this point.

      --
      This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
    9. Re:The difference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is exactly the same. You could not have missed all the "funny" security cam videos on youtube and liveleak that show people walking through glass, falling over elevators, etc. etc. in public buildings. It is obvious that this footage was ripped from the corporate cameras and clearly falls within the list of weird uses you kindly provide.

      The only difference is that it is a lot easier to pick on the lone guy, so you go for it. Just like most of the idiots in the video.

    10. Re:The difference... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      the difference is that you never know what some a-hole private individual is going to do with video footage of you including, but not limited to:
      * Adding it to his private collection of masturbation material
      * Posting it on YouTube for everyone to enjoy a good laugh at your expense

      While I agree with your point you only need to go on Youtube and type in CCTV or "Security Camera" to find out that just because someone isn't walking around with a camera doesn't mean it won't be put on youtube for a good laugh.

      You can effectively assume nothing that enters a lens is private these days. No doubt there's some sicko masturbating to videos taken of the gymnastics at the olympics, all of which are on youtube mind you.

      The guy is an idiot who completely failed to make his point in a reasonable way, but that doesn't mean CCTV footage is in any way "safer" than the footage obtained when some random dude sticks a camera in your face.

    11. Re:The difference... by lsllll · · Score: 1
      Seriously? Since when is it illegal for someone to videotape people in the street and add the video to his private collection of masturbation materials? Or posting it to YouTube so that others can have a laugh at it?

      Face it. He's living in a country which has deemed that its citizens do not have an expectation of privacy while in the public. Ever hear of paparazzi? He can follows you six steps behind and not get in your way, while filming you, and there's nothing you should be able to do about it, otherwise it's yet another right that has been eroded in this country.

      --
      Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
    12. Re:The difference... by biodata · · Score: 1

      Why is this modded 5 insightful? There are thousands of public and corporate surveillence video cameras available for free on the internet for anyone to view - if you know the default name of the webpages for cameras, you can just Google up a huge list right now and watch to your heart's content. If there is a camera in a public place, then it is almost certain that its feed is either publicly available, or available to variable numbers of people, who have no or very little training in privacy law, physical barriers to unauthorised data removal, or supervision that prevents them removing data and doing these things with it. Everything this poster says about footage captured by private individuals applies equally to almost every camera in our streets, shops and other public places.

      --
      Korma: Good
    13. Re:The difference... by mantissa128 · · Score: 1

      * Adding it to his private collection of masturbation material
      * Posting it on YouTube for everyone to enjoy a good laugh at your expense
      * Modify the material and use it for blackmail/extortion/public humiliation
      * Worse?

      * Oh noes! Someone is jerking off to a picture of me and I don't like that so it must stop!
      * See just about every YouTube video, ever.
      * If you want to pick your nose and have nobody know about it, do it at home.
      * EMMAGERD TEH CHILDRENZ

      People's sensibilities != what is allowable

    14. Re:The difference... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Since when is it illegal for someone to videotape people in the street and add the video to his private collection of masturbation materials?

      Since when is it ethical for someone to videotape people in the street and add the video to his private collection of masturbation materials?

      There's more to life than obeying the law.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    15. Re:The difference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can he be arrested for raping your soul if he adds it to his private collection of masturbation material? Also, can someone tell me the minimum penalty for humiliating someone?

    16. Re:The difference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is it unethical? Is there somewhere I can go to seek counseling for soul-rape?

    17. Re:The difference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because someone might blackmail you and be a pervert, having a camera is clearly beyond a reasonable doubt that they are, and therefore we should outlaw and arrest all people with cameras.

      Someone might be a hammer killer so I had to shoot them because they had a hammer in their garage so that clearly means they were engaged in a conspiracy to kill me.

      You don't have a right to restrict photography because someone might be a pervert blackmailer.

      On the other hand, security cameras are used by perverts, in a spot where you're indoors and probably where it's less ethical to use surveillance for entertainment.

      But Outside, you don't have a right to privacy, no matter how much you want to speculate about unrelated criminal acts or non criminal acts that you don't like that might be accomplished with a camera.

    18. Re:The difference... by lsllll · · Score: 1

      Ethics are evaluated on a personal basis. They are not written down for everyone to follow. Laws are.

      --
      Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
    19. Re:The difference... by YodasEvilTwin · · Score: 1
      I didn't say there wasn't a difference. I said:

      It's like saying it's OK to stab someone in the foot but not in the neck, since the former is less likely to kill them!

      Great reading comprehension.

    20. Re:The difference... by YodasEvilTwin · · Score: 1

      The point is that both are illegal, and the difference in potential outcome doesn't make one of them legal. Obviously different things are different; congratulations, Captain.

  9. classic vid on the topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From Steve Mann's "Shooting Back"

  10. creepy not... by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    ...suicidal

    1. Re:creepy not... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Then the pussy shouldn't be doing it at all.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:creepy not... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Then the pussy shouldn't be doing it at all.

      If you don't like his form of protest then you go do it the way you think it ought to be done. Otherwise you are the pussy.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  11. His actions/presence MAKE it different by justsomecomputerguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His antics are DIFFERENT because he is a PERSON, and he keeps getting right up in other peoples face (within distance to physically touch or be touched) A much better test that would eliminate the CREEPY GUY factor, would be to just mount a camera on a tripod and place it by the doorway of a building or even in the middle of a crowd or public square and then walk away from it. Maybe have it mounted on a stand that can turn and focus... I could should that people were "afraid of balloons" if I stepped right up in there faces and stared at them while holding balloons. Possibly interesting idea executed very lamely. Next.

  12. This is (probably) illegal... by supersat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not because he recorded video of people in public, but because he recorded audio. Audio has much stronger legal protections, and Washington is a two-party consent state, at least when it comes to telephone calls, etc.

    1. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can it be illegal, he was in public space, shooting a video from public space. There is no law against that. Sure its stupid, but people do stupid things all the time, but its not illegal.

    2. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Nope. So long as it doesn't cross the line into harassment and remains on public property, what he's doing is completely legal. Photography and videography in public is protected under federal law.

    3. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by dills · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's no expectation of privacy in public, therefore it's exempt.

    4. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but no. Recording audio of a person without their knowledge or consent is legally considered illegal wiretapping in many states.

    5. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consent only matters when there is an expectation of privacy. In a public place there can not be an expectation of privacy.

    6. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      The whole point of what he's doing is to make sure they know he's doing it, thus rendering your point about recording without their knowledge moot.

    7. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Which is retarded and needs to be fixed. It's not wiretapping.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    8. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      He still needs their consent before he can record their audio.

    9. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      Sorry, courts have ruled otherwise. In some states with 2 party consent laws, any audio recording requires the prior knowledge and consent of all participants.

    10. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Digicaf · · Score: 1

      In two-party consent states it IS illegal, regardless of the location. Even in a lot of one-party states, the person doing the recording must be taking part in the conversation, or else that too is illegal.

    11. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by dills · · Score: 1

      In Washington State, the "2 party rule" specifically only applies to telephone conversations and other conversations where there is an expectation of privacy. Just because the rules are different in say, Maryland, doesn't mean that every state's 2 party rules are the same.

    12. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Not so. In Washington, consent is only necessary if the conversation is private. As for what's considered private...

      Whether a conversation or other communications is "private" depends on a number of case-specific factors, such as the subjective intention of the parties, the reasonableness of their expectation that the conversation would be private, the location of the conversation, and whether third parties were present.

      In other words, consent is necessary for most telephone calls or meetings behind closed doors, but not for conversations between strangers taking place in a public place with other people moving around as well.

      Source: http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law

    13. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by IonOtter · · Score: 1

      Not in a public place it isn't, no.

      However, what *is* happening, is police officers are behaving badly, getting caught on film/tape/video/cellphones, and then *charging* the person with wiretapping.

      A cop can charge you with sexually assaulting the pope with a glow-in-the-dark dildo, even though you were at home in bed, while the pope was on the other side of the planet at the time. Logic and legality do not apply to charges.

      However, *IF* you have:

      1. The money...
      2. The time...
      3. And a lawyer,

      Then you can have the charges expunged. But if you don't have at least two of those three things, then even if the charges are dropped, you will now and forever more have aggravated sexual assault charges on your criminal record.

      You might get lucky, and the case might go to a judge, who would take one look at it and wipe the charges off your record for free.

      However, it's much more likely that you'll be charged with resisting arrest, assaulting an officer and a host of other, much more probable charges that aren't likely to be dropped, or even challenged.

      Unless there's video, of course?

      --
      [End Of Line]
    14. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      Can you please explain to me then how a band can record their live gig?
      Surely they need the permission of every single person there.

      How could news do a live interview (which they also record) with someone outside if others speak?
      Do they need their permission also, as they also get recorded.

      Making a video of your own kids playing the in the park must be difficult also, what with all the
      other people permission you need to get.

      Best we just ban the public from doing any recording, dont you think? safer for everyone.. hmmm?

    15. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 1

      A close physical presence out of line of social norms could be construed as purposefully menacing -- an implied threat of unwanted physical contact made with intent. Now we are in the realm of "assault" which does not require any actual physical contact for a conviction -- all it takes is for the jury to believe "he scared me". It might also persuade a jury, if someone were to beat this guy up.

      Whether privacy is violated is not necessarily important here. The strong reactions are because he is violating the norms of personal space, which have an entirely different set of rules.

    16. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      There's no expectation of privacy in public, therefore it's exempt.

      Bullshit, that doesn't mean I can just stick my camera up your girlfriend's skirt because she's in public. There are limits.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:This is (probably) illegal... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      There's no expectation of privacy in public, therefore it's exempt.

      Bullshit, that doesn't mean I can just stick my camera up your girlfriend's skirt because she's in public. There are limits.

      Actually, you apparently can do that in Seattle.

      (From http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125746&page=1#.UJQu7IXahaw)
      "The [upskirt imaging] case went all the way up the Washington State Supreme Court in Olympia, where to the surprise of prosecutors, lawmakers and Jang herself, the taping of her and other targets was ruled "disgusting and reprehensible," but not against the law. "

      This story is a pretty good one because it shows the difference between people's desired privacy and actually their legal protections in public. A lot of people are getting upset at the actions of the camera man, and that is exactly his point. Is he a persistent, creepy dick? Yes. Can you legally stop what he is doing? Probably not. Does this bother most people? Apparently.

  13. In related news... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    ... I'm filming you reading /. right now.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:In related news... by PuZZleDucK · · Score: 1

      ... and I'm eavesdropping on fahrbot-bot recording you :p

      --
      Can a person program a new solution to a problem? Why should anyone be able to stop such a thing? -Richard Stallman
  14. Comic Con creepy old men by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL!

    Reminds me of the creepy old men at Comic Con that hangout in the lobby and film costumed young people. Hide your children, hide your wives.

  15. He could be making a fantastic political point.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .... but its questionable.

    90% of this is gold. People hate being surveillance, yet they are passive to never before see amounts of it via CCD cameras and mobile phone / telephony based tracking. Keeping silence about these points could be a stylistic decision on this form of activism.

    But I dont think it is.

    You see, he also begins to harass live public performances, which, in all honestly, who gives a crap if it gets recorded. Maybe some pinhead copyright holder, but its public performance, and its meant to be seen, and often sold which is a totally different issue that surveillance. The guy, unfortunately is probably just trolling for attention.

    I really like the idea though. Take this guys, "Im taking a video" "Why? Why not!" approach till the person gets agro, then asking them questions relating to their prior activity. "Why not? You are doing nothing wrong?" "What do you mean consent... there are 10 video cameras watching you all around" "Private phone conversation? All of your cell calls are recorded for the NSA's discretional use". This to that effect, to point out the Hippocratic in peoples typical passe approach to personal privacy and surveillance. That would be be some very effective evidence for how the public isnt actually okay with being surveiled when they are aware of it.

  16. Re:His actions/presence MAKE it different by ottothecow · · Score: 1
    +this.

    Also, would be more interesting to see it done within the field of view of a real surveillance camera (either on a tripod or him walking around with it). The closest he gets in those videos is some comments like "Weren't there cameras in the store you just came out of?". Would be much more compelling if he were saying "well that camera right up there is filming both of us right now, why don't you care about that one?"

    --
    Bottles.
  17. thought provoking, could be better done. by Fubari · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Certainly thought provoking.
    It could be done more interestingly, perhaps operating in an area with a public facing surveillance cam. Then he could engage passers by in conversations more like: "Why are you taking a video?" "Do you think there is a difference between what I'm doing and what that camera over there is doing?" As it is, he just seems to be irritating people and not planting any seeds for future thought.

    I say this after watching the second video here ..
    0:23 shopper exits store
    shopper: "Can I ask who you are?"
    video guy: "What."
    shopper: "What are you doing?"
    video guy: "Oh I'm taking a video."
    shopper: "Of what?"
    video guy: "Just a video."
    shopper: "Why are you taking a video?"
    video guy: "Why not?"
    shopper: "I don't really care for other people just to be taking a random video of me."
    video guy: "Didn't you just come out of the drug store?"
    shopper: "Yeah"
    video guy: "They have cameras in there."
    shopper: "So?"
    shopper: gets on bike, rides off.

    (The other interactions go down hill from there.)

    1. Re:thought provoking, could be better done. by PuZZleDucK · · Score: 1

      perhaps operating in an area with a public facing surveillance cam.

      I thought this too, if he could point out one or two fixed cameras recording people at the same time they ask why he's recording them then the point is better made. Not hard to do in almost any city nowdays.

      --
      Can a person program a new solution to a problem? Why should anyone be able to stop such a thing? -Richard Stallman
    2. Re:thought provoking, could be better done. by ottothecow · · Score: 2

      I thought it would be pretty funny if he pointed at the fixed surveillance camera and said "Oh, the camera feed stopped working, so I am doing it manually until the repair crew can get out here"

      --
      Bottles.
    3. Re:thought provoking, could be better done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, there are much better ways to prove the point.

      For instance, standing right next to a security camera (or directly below one). When someone inevitably complains, ask them to explain why his recording is bothersome while *point up* that one is fine.

      Basically, average Joe is dumb. They won't get the association he's trying to make, unless it's spelled out crystal clear.

    4. Re:thought provoking, could be better done. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I thought it would be pretty funny if he pointed at the fixed surveillance camera and said "Oh, the camera feed stopped working, so I am doing it manually until the repair crew can get out here"

      That would be awesome. You should email him that idea. Chances are this whole protest thing is a work in progress and he'd probably welcome suggestions to make it more effective that don't make it any harder for him.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  18. Re:His actions/presence MAKE it different by eldavojohn · · Score: 2

    His antics are DIFFERENT because he is a PERSON

    Agreed, it's so weird that he's a person. Now if he was just a normal old drone, I'd be completely fine with it hovering next to me, watching me scratch my balls and walk out of 7-11 with three cases of beer, lottery tickets and an illegally sized Big Gulp. I mean, it's not like there's people behind those drones and security cameras watching me, right?

    --
    My work here is dung.
  19. So I have a question. by xevioso · · Score: 1

    What if I were to do the following:

    Creepy guy comes up to me as I am minding my own business, and starts to film me to make this point. He's very close, which irritates me.

    So in response, I get very close to him, and yell in his face very loudly. No real words, just a very loud scream. As loud as possible, right at him, over and over.

    Now, from my standpoint, the point I would be making is: if you irritate and act obnoxiously to others, they might do the same to you, so try not to irritate and act obnoxiously towards others.

    Apparently his filming me is not illegal. If I yell loudly at him until he went away (or until it escalated, which could easily happen) would it be illegal to do that? In this specific situation?

    1. Re:So I have a question. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      A better response is probably to get out your phone and record him recording you. Apparently people don't know who he is. And apparently he also doesn't like being recorded.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:So I have a question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I yell loudly at him until he went away (or until it escalated, which could easily happen) would it be illegal to do that? In this specific situation?

      Yep, we're going down town. Disturbing the peace, son.

      When blanket catch-all infractions exist, everything is illegal.

    3. Re:So I have a question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will happen.

  20. What a douchebag! by GerryGilmore · · Score: 1

    Look, I understand that we're surrounded by video cameras *statically* recording us as we move through an area, but just sitting down at someone's table while they're on the phone and shoving a camera in their face, and his other antics, is just pure douche-ness, plain and simple!

    1. Re:What a douchebag! by Hentes · · Score: 1

      Yet if he was doing the same thing to policemen the whole Slashdot bunch would rally in his defence.

    2. Re:What a douchebag! by iamnobody2 · · Score: 1

      thats because policemen are public servants with incredible amounts of power that is often abused. if you can't see the difference...

      --
      nobody's perfect
    3. Re:What a douchebag! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the policeman was doing something worthy of recording, you bet I'd be for it. If someone is just stuffing a camera _in a cops face_, and for no apparent reason, I'd say that's interfering with the performance of an officers duty.

      This guys is not recording for an overt purpose and is doing nothing to make his purpose clear. Surveilance cameras purposes are clear to all. You may not agree with them, but you know why they are there and they are not in your face. He's trying to make one point (people don't like to be surveilled) and is ending up making another (people don't like being harassed with a camera for no reason). And he's too dumb-stupid to entertain the difference.

      This is a great example of someone who thinks their view is so important that inconveniencing and annoying others is fair game to promote his ends. That is one definition of an arrogant asshole. I hope he ends up nursing a black eye in a cell personally.

    4. Re:What a douchebag! by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2

      It's because you think of cameras as static. Add a network of zoom and pan cameras with some software smarts that can track an individual and it's pretty much the same thing, except the filmed are unaware of it occurring.

  21. Re:hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The engrish is strong with this one.

  22. Not even comparable by hardtofindanick · · Score: 1

    This is not comparable at all to surveillance. What part of get out of my face does he not understand?

    1. Re:Not even comparable by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      He is just being a camera on the wall. If you look at the camera on block, ask it to get off your face, does it go away?

    2. Re:Not even comparable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that, you know, the camera on the block is not in your face. You're presuming what people are complaining about is comparable to what you wish they would complain about.

    3. Re:Not even comparable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he's a human being stalking people where he has no reason to do so. Companies want to assure security on their premises. Police want to watch for criminal activity in their jurisdictions. This guy wants to stalk and harass people for teh lulz and claim it's "art", or "a statement", or "just what I'm doing until the job market picks up, I swear, mom", or whatever bullshit lines they teach art school students these days to use when desperately trying to deflect any criticism and accusations that he's being a stalker harassing people for teh lulz.

      And, to save both of us the time and trouble, I know your next argument will be a broad generalization of "ha HA! Look at this company X, they spied on people and a video made its way to the internets!!!! And so did this police video! See how evil they are? *giggle*giggle*snort*". So I'll just answer that now: Those are outliers. No, just because you immerse yourself in as much anti-police, anti-company, and anti-anything-bigger-than-you propaganda as is humanly possible all day and night doesn't make it a reality, no more than immersing yourself with as much porn as possible will make you a sex god. Those cameras DO some amount of good. They DO help catch people engaging in criminal activity. This douchebag is just a stalker with a prepared line to fool people like you. He hasn't done ANY good.

    4. Re:Not even comparable by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      The camera on my block is at face level. I bet it has more resolution that the one he is holding (the purpose of the camera (the ones I am talking about atleast) is to catch faces, even ones that are far away from the camera). It is true that I am presuming it. May I ask, why you believe they are not comparable.

    5. Re:Not even comparable by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      Stalking is completely different. He is not even following the person. Yeah for the security, for the children, for the terrorist, yeah I know.

    6. Re:Not even comparable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The number of "camera on the wall" that are able to open classroom doors, follow people up and down stairs, around corners, or around the block capturing audio and high definition video from as close as two feet away like the anonymous coward taking the video does is quite small.

    7. Re:Not even comparable by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      The number of "camera on the wall" that are able to open classroom doors,

      Which he did, and I agree he was being dick and an asshole

      follow people up and down stairs,

      Which he did not do. He was being chased down the stair, by an aggressive gentleman.

      around corners, or around the block

      He did not follow any one around the corner or around the block. To be precise, he did not follow any one.

      capturing audio and high definition video from as close as two feet away like the anonymous coward taking the video does is quite small.

      Er, the surveillance cameras are designed to catch faces, even if they are far. They have much much better resolution than what ever he is holding. Anyone who wants to come close to you using a surveillance camera, only has to use the zoom function.

    8. Re:Not even comparable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you think this guy would turn off his camera and walk away if he observed criminal activity?

      No?

      Then he is doing some good. In fact, he's probably MORE of a deterrent than the hidden cameras because he's more obvious.

  23. It's a free country... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

    ... the guy can do what he likes, right? He's not breaking any law or harming anyone.

  24. I love it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This entire concept is perfect. I think its time for us to all start recording everyone. Maybe then people will decided ubiquitous, endless recording of our lives should be regulated and protected.

  25. Re:Drones watching you scratch your balls by justsomecomputerguy · · Score: 1

    Ewww. THAT's creepy. But your point about the drones is only partially right. It's not so much the acknowledgement that "someone" is passively (but intrusively) watching you as it is the invasion of "your space" . One of those fragile Quad-Helicopter Drones would also be creepy, not because it could hurt you as much as it is invading your "space". My IMPLIED point was that anything that is mobile and right there in-your-face is creepy. I "person" holding the camera is probably the most creepy, the only way it could be creepier would be if he was just starring at you without even a camera. You could make it less creepy by having him keep his distance. Or have fixed position stand (aka a tripod). Or if the drone were high enough up that you didn't immediately notice it.

  26. Re:He could be making a fantastic political point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you mean 'hypocrisy', not 'Hippocratic'

  27. Re:His actions/presence MAKE it different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Corporations are people too, my friend. /obligatory

  28. Accountability? by ArrayIndexOutOfBound · · Score: 1

    Most organisations - commercial and governmental - have to conduct business under certain rules. I don't like being on CCTV, but here in London they have become a part of life through reducing insurance to businesses and yes, reduction in street and public transport crime.
    Joe Random on the street with a camera is a different proposition. A much more menacing one. First, you immediately know you are dealing with a nutjob, who's focused on you. Second, you don't expect any scrupules from said nutjob, or that he'll lose his job or get in hot water if he misuses the footage - a reasonable expectation for CCTV camera operators.
    The difference is accountability.

  29. Sociology? by fldsofglry · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of a sociology/communication project where you have to break some sort of social norm. I for one went a different route where I walked around a mall without shoes. The reactions I got from people were priceless! He seems to be doing a similar thing here. Ilegal? No. Annoying to people? Probably. Breaking a social norm? Yes!

  30. Okay, let's look at this rationally. by mark-t · · Score: 0

    An arbitrary person pointing a camera at you is somebody you do not know, and you have had absolutely no involvement in getting them to point that camera at you.

    In a democratic society, however, the government is elected by the people, and for their term is entrusted by them to preserve the best interests of that society. This is entirely different from some random person you meet on the street, and have no prior connection to.

    While admittedly, possibility for corruption in the government exists, and to use it for no less honorable purposes than somebody who had no business recording you at all, at least with the government, you've had some say on what sort of people would be monitoring those cameras, where you have absolutely no say at all on the type of people you might meet on the street.

    So, in the end, they are two different things.

    1. Re:Okay, let's look at this rationally. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      An arbitrary person pointing a camera at you is somebody you do not know, and you have had absolutely no involvement in getting them to point that camera at you.

      Just like surveillance cameras.

      In a democratic society, however, the government is elected by the people, and for their term is entrusted by them to preserve the best interests of that society. This is entirely different from some random person you meet on the street, and have no prior connection to.

      Well, first, there's the issue of whether or not we live in a democratic society and therefore whether or not the rest of this paragraph applies, but for the sake of argument let's say we do.

      I still disagree that this is entirely different -- but there are some slight differences. I would argue that institutionalized surveillance is even more objectionable than what this guys is doing. The amount of harm that can come from this guy's actions is limited, as he has limited authority and power. The amount of harm that can come from the government doing the same thing is much, much greater.

  31. I can see his point but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He is shooting video from both public places and on private property. He has every right to do the former but not the latter.

  32. Disable the camera? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

    A bright laser pointer aimed directly into the lens ought to damage the CCD - after a few such 'treatments' the camera will be seriously impaired, or outright useless. (Just make sure the videographer isn't looking through an optical viewfinder, and that the beam or its reflection doesn't hit anyone's eye).

    IANAL, however I doubt very much that the police would even lay charges over such an incident, (never mind secure a conviction), and Mister Asshole would probably find better things to do with his time after a few hundred dollars' worth of damage to his camera equipment.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    1. Re:Disable the camera? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      A bright laser pointer aimed directly into the lens ought to damage the CCD

      No, it won't. But even if it did...

      however I doubt very much that the police would even lay charges over such an incident,

      They probably wouldn't but not because of what the guy is doing. However, the police don't need to do anything at all -- he can sue for damages from the vandalism without them, and he'd win from a purely legal standpoint.

    2. Re:Disable the camera? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A bright laser pointer aimed directly into the lens ought to damage the CCD

      No, it won't. But even if it did...

      A bright enough one will. With the camera being close to his face, it might get you an assault charge, too.

  33. Omnipresent AI in a Multiplayer Game by Sibko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's a sandbox game I play from time to time called Space Station 13, usually as the AI. It's a 2D multiplayer RPG/roguelike of sorts, and much like Dwarf Fortress or MUD's, not the easiest thing to get into.

    I mostly play on /tg/ server 2 as Wintermote, an AI that enjoys monitoring all communications and drama going on around the space station. The AI has a lot of tools at its disposal for doing this - you can change frequencies on a room's intercom; using its microphone to transmit and eavesdrop on nearby conversations over a private channel, you can hack into the PDA messaging system and read every single private message sent between players on their PDA's (think, tablets/phones), and you have cameras covering nearly the entire station so that you can see almost everything that is happening.

    The curious thing I've noticed is that nobody ever cares about the spying /until/ it both involves them and is specifically brought to their attention. The Head of Security doesn't care that I'm spying on two scientists in the bomb testing lab, but if she finds out I'm spying on her in the interrogation room where she's beating a prisoner to death, wellll suddenly it's creepy and weird.

    What is more interesting is that when a player dies, they become an observer in the round and can hear and see /everything/; moreso even than an AI, because the AI is limited by game considerations - intercoms, power, working computer systems, etc. Every player knows that anything they say can and probably /is/ being seen by another player who is currently dead in the round.

    So an interesting story relating to this: I see the librarian and a medical doctor in the library having a rather private conversation - I turn on the intercom and eavesdrop, and then comment on something one of them said, I was immediately told to stop listening, and the two then turned off their intercom. An admin shortly thereafter made all dead players visible. The librarian and doctor were surrounded by a swarm of ghosts, all listening to their conversation. Once it was done, they immediately stopped their conversation and departed the library, but the dead players had always been there, listening. Both the Librarian and Doctor knew that dead players or the AI could hear anything they said, but they continued their conversation until it was made directly apparent (By an admin making dead players visible, or by me speaking to them) that someone was dropping eaves. It was only at /that/ point that it became an issue and they decided to stop and continue some other time.

    I've asked players if they mind if I spy on them, and the response is almost always "I don't mind, so long as you don't interject or comment about things, or tell other people".

    Basically, out of sight, out of mind. People generally don't care that I see/hear what they're doing, so long as I don't bring it up or mention it. And that, I think, relates to this article - the government CCTV cameras and ubiquitous surveillance isn't really made apparent to people. You don't have a government agent calling you up and saying that he listened to that conversation you just had on the phone, and that he found that one joke really hilarious.

    In the back of your mind, you know or think you know the government is spying on you like that, but it isn't really shoved in your face and it doesn't really impact you, and so people ignore it. It's only when it's brought to a person's attention that they ever give a shit.

    And that is exactly what this man is doing. He's shoving the surveillance into people's faces, to try and get them to give a shit. I fear, however, that instead of fighting against the government surveillance - which he is trying to bring to their attention - people are just going to fight against /him/.

    1. Re:Omnipresent AI in a Multiplayer Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's so much about people being made aware they're being monitored, than it is about knowing a person is actively being monitored by a person.

      People know there are surveillance cameras and it's not too much of a problem. There are usually signs that warn them they're being recorded, it's not much of a problem. I believe the rational behind that is that, in practice, it's not feasible for a person to be monitoring all of the cameras all of the time, so chances are no one's going to see you unless you do something worth hunting through the footage for (eg. commit a crime).

      I'm sure the fact the cameras are a kind of "catch-all" surveillance rather than focussing on a specific individual helps too. Focus and attention is what makes the difference between people walking past you on the street as you're having a private conversation, and a guy standing beside you listening to the whole conversation.

      On the other hand, with someone with a video camera is focussing their attention on people, is actively monitoring what's going on, and will likely review the footage at a later time. How that fits in with your observations in Space Station 13 I don't know.

    2. Re:Omnipresent AI in a Multiplayer Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should fight against him. Surveillance has a justified reason, to catch criminals. This guy is just a creep who hopefully gets his ass kicked when he approaches the wrong person while playing his game.

  34. Privacy != Personal Space by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, you are confusing yourself because you have an ideological axe to grind.

    AC and MightyYar brought up the topic of "personal space". Privacy and personal space are not necessarily related at all. My privacy may be approximately nil in a crowd, while the crowd could still be very respectful of my personal space. Likewise, a full body cavity search may not violate my privacy in any important way (depending on my personal attitude about my details of biology), while it has everything to do with personal space.

    He is violating social taboos very dear to most people, and violence is a likelihood. Juries are not going to sympathize with this fellow any more than they would sympathize with a naked man caught masturbating in front of a grade school.

    Furthermore actions very close to another's personal space that a reasonable person might construe as purposefully menacing can be grounds for assault. "Assault", unlike "battery" does not require any actual physical contact. All it takes is a jury to believe "he scared me" from one victim and this guy could be in the hospital as warm up for his time in jail.

    1. Re:Privacy != Personal Space by Herr+Brush · · Score: 1

      This gets modded insightful? In any case where a person responds to a perceived threat, there is a test for reasonableness. You might find a jury that thinks being on camera is threatening enough to require a physical response but its more likely that if you attack a cameraman, you'll find yourself being prosecuted.

    2. Re:Privacy != Personal Space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Juries are not going to sympathize with this fellow any more than they would sympathize with a naked man caught masturbating in front of a grade school.

      Jesus, how often does this thing keep coming up? Look, I was a little drunk and stressed, OK? And I've paid my dues: my arsehole was like a strawberry jam doughnut by the time I got out of prison.

    3. Re:Privacy != Personal Space by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      This gets modded insightful? In any case where a person responds to a perceived threat, there is a test for reasonableness. You might find a jury that thinks being on camera is threatening enough to require a physical response but its more likely that if you attack a cameraman, you'll find yourself being prosecuted.

      I think if you ask someone to stop filming you and they refuse, you are morally within your rights to take direct action. I don't care whether it's "legal" or not.

      Incidentally, it's amusing how legalistic slashdotters can get when it comes to real life as opposed to things like copyright infringement, where it's generally "I will do it because I can get away with it".

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    4. Re:Privacy != Personal Space by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 1

      The test of reasonableness is ultimately decided by 15 people: a police officer*, a prosecutor, a judge, and 12 jurors. Any single one of them can veto the whole shebang, which is a de facto decision that a violent response was reasonable enough. I would not advocate attacking the cameraman, but do you really think it is a good bet that not one single member of the 15 would be weirded out enough to decide the cameraman simply got what he deserved?

      * While technically one might think that the police officer's judgement should not matter so much, in the real world the cameraman might be the one who gets arrested. As a practical matter the perp is never going to be re-labelled the victim once the wheels of the legal system start turning.

  35. Talking about a free country... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Finnish privacy laws ban recording, photographing or filming people identifiably (whether in a public place, workplace or in the home) without first giving them a clear notification, typically with a posted sign.

    So no nannycams in your home in Finland unless you first tell the nanny about them. No private eye pictures of secret lovers. No schoolyard monitoring cameras without warning signs.

    Google streetview blurs pictures of people and license plates automatically (often including, unfortunately, street signs as well).

    1. Re:Talking about a free country... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Same in the UK, but in this case you can quite clearly see a guy standing there filming.

      Frankly I think it's a little weird, but if someone is sufficiently interested in watching me scratch my backside and and play with my phone then I'm not going to stop them. It's their own time they're wasting.

  36. Re:Drones watching you scratch your balls by Loosifur · · Score: 1

    Bingo.

    I think the clearest illustration of what's really being tested here is that these people are in situations where the common thread is the camera. The new element, the one that produces the reaction, is the person. I bet one million fake imaginary dollars that if you conducted this "study" by having some guy just walk up to people and stare at them, it would produce the same reaction. Conversely, hang signs on cameras in the middle of the street that say, "Smile, we're watching you and saving the footage for later masturbation!" you might get some laughs, but that's about it.

    --
    This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
  37. Less trespassing, more recording. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reentering the classrooms was a big no-no that obfuscates the point. The matter then is no longer about omnipresent surveillance and the reality that people should be made uncomfortable by it, but rather about some jackass trespassing. I saw the second video first and thought it much better. Recording people and following them, that emphasizes the point enough, especially when they go haywire. Trespassing - which is what he was doing after he was told to leave the class - not such a good idea.

  38. Re:His actions/presence MAKE it different by vux984 · · Score: 0

    His antics are DIFFERENT because he is a PERSON

    Corporations are people too. Hadn't you heard?

  39. Monkeys by Loosifur · · Score: 1

    All this proves is that people are still primates. Staring at someone signals aggression. A camera can't stare at you, because it doesn't have a face. A person holding a camera is still a person, and he's a person doing the most threatening thing short of actual physical aggression that a primate can do: stare at you quietly with no expression.

    Congrats, dude, you've just taught people that the kind of people who talk about surveillance and Orwell REALLY ARE socially-crippled paranoid weirdos. Privacy advocates everywhere owe you a swift kick in the ass. Two, in fact, for not explaining your purpose after freaking people out, and thus failing to do any education about privacy issues whatsoever.

    --
    This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
  40. Harassment without the point by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    This is more like harassment to prove a point.

    Actually it is more like harassment without any point. If he was trying to prove a point when asked "why are you videoing me?" he would explain that he is behaving just like a security camera and, since people accept that, why not this? Of course that is not quite true since security cameras do not usually record audio and some of the places he filmed were private where you would not expect cameras. In most of the cases he seems to just respond with a "I'm taking a video" which is no explanation at all.

    1. Re:Harassment without the point by war4peace · · Score: 1

      In one of the videos, there's a 360 degree security surveillance camera about 15 feet behind the guy he's taping, hanging from the ceiling. It's behind the guy at the Starbucks with the phone. The basic activity for both (the guy and the surveillance camera) is video-recording you. Some cameras have sound enabled, so not much of a difference here either.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    2. Re:Harassment without the point by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

      not much of a difference here either

      The difference is that, when asked if you point out the security camera and say what's the difference the person will be made to think and, even if they disagree, will at least realize that you are making a point (in a very thought provoking way IMHO). Whereas if you refuse to say why you are taking the video they are more likely to think that you are an annoying idiot and not notice the surveillance camera since, afterall, they are already ignoring it. So really it boils down to whether you are trying to make a point in a clever way or just being an annoying idiot.

  41. His point. by jbwolfe · · Score: 1

    I see his point, but he absolutely needs to refine it to complete the delivery. His "victims" need to see the other surveillance cameras that are viewing them at that moment. And he needs to reduce his focus on pissing off the victim and intensify the illustration of the point of his irritating actions.

    --
    Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
    1. Re:His point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      His "victims" don't need to see anything. They don't owe him shit. He's a creepy guy who just approached them. The camera is irrelevant. If he was not filming them and just following them around and staring at them he would get the same response. HE needs to figure that part out and move on.

  42. My Hero by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I love this guy. His point is entirely valid. The most hilarious thing about this entire situation is that all the people that are hating him, that think he should get arrested, he completely agrees with. And all the people that excuse what he's doing and try to defend him completely disagree with his point. It's the most fucked up thing ever. He shouldn't be able to do this, and neither should businesses, the government or anyone else. He's pointing out just how creepy it is and saying wake the fuck up.

    1. Re:My Hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But he forgot about citizen's arrest, didn't he? Anyone he approaches and harasses can citizen's arrest until the cops arrive.

    2. Re:My Hero by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      I love this guy. His point is entirely valid.

      His point is NOT entirely valid. For one thing most security cameras don't record audio. So the guy at the table might think it is OK to film someone with a security camera, would still not want someone else to sit down next to him. Maybe the guy at the table decided to go outside, where it is noisier (to drown out security cameras that record sound) to have his conversation. And someone sits down, with a camera and audio recording 2 feet away.
      While the point the guy is trying to make is "you are being recorded even when you don't want to." The point he is making is "I'm invading your personal space and listening in on YOUR conversation."

  43. Whatever, I just hope he posts the video of him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    getting his ass beat.

    Regardless of what he is trying to do, he is fucking with people. I can't wait to see him fuck with the wrong person.

  44. It's a matter of intent by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

    I go out dancing. I'm very good at it. People often try to take videos of me. I hate it and avoid letting them if I notice.

    It's a matter of intent and framing. I do not want a video of me show up on YouTube in a context I don't control.

    I do not like surveillance cameras, but there is an implicit intent behind them that I do not find objectionable in the same way. I still find it objectionable, but in a different and much more subtle way.

    This guy pretend to be a surveillance camera but clearly being a private individual raises the same questions I have for people who photograph or take videos of me when I'm out dancing.

    1. Re:It's a matter of intent by RazorSharp · · Score: 1

      I hate having my picture taken. I was pretty neutral about it before Facebook but now I actively avoid having any pictures taken of me. Most people find this extremely strange. Unfortunately, I think there's probably pictures of me on Facebook anyway. I wouldn't know b/c I don't have a Facebook account, which is something most people I know think is more strange than my aversion to having my picture taken.

      Maybe it's just an introvert thing. I don't think I've ever been able to get an extrovert to understand why I value my privacy and why I have no interest in being part of 'the network.' I'm not antisocial, I just don't feel the need to be social all the time.

      I also have a problem with security cameras, especially now that they're starting to get networked together and applying facial recognition algorithms (burn in hell, NSA; stop being evil, Google), but at least for the most part the material on security cameras is just a file that's never looked at unless a crime is committed, and then it serves an actual purpose.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    2. Re:It's a matter of intent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's be real here. You're from fucking Minnesota. Nobody wants to watch you do your hoedown "dance", dork.

    3. Re:It's a matter of intent by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      In truth, I was expecting a higher quality of trollish insult in response to my post. You should try harder.

  45. Get organized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thoroughly agree with what he is doing. It needs to be done, however the way he is going about it is simply pissing people off and turning them against his cause. He needs to target it a lot more carefully. Maybe have a carefully crafted flyer to hand out to people. Find out what other cameras are in the area and let them know what cameras are on them right now. He needs to be a _lot_ less aggressive. He doesn't need to be aggressive to get his point across. He can be extremely conservative because he's just showing people the truth. His flyer might say something like: If you felt uncomfortable with me filming you, you should be aware that there are x other cameras filming you right now at y locations. You might want to do something about this problem. (and couple it with a specific action) Go here. Do this.
    And follow up here for further information. Create an organization. Target specific lawmakers. Get the people involved in where to target next. Make it as easy as possible for your (customers?) to do the right thing. Have the flyer be a pre-addressed postcard that they can just sign and drop in the mail. Or at least get funding. It's a much better way of bumming a dollar. Ask for contributions for legal fees etc.
    Incorporate yourself. Don't just be an jerk on the street with a camera.

  46. No, it got to you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you don't want to admit it. I believe your response is awfully revealing.

    1. Re:No, it got to you. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Revealing that I think this guy did a very poor job of making his point?

      In fact, if the summary didn't tell me what his point was, I would have thought he was trying to do a bad copy of Tom Green.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  47. Face behind the lens by AgVulpine · · Score: 1

    The only difference between ubiquitous surveillance cameras, and someone pointing one at you, is getting to see the person who is going to later masturbate to the footage.

  48. The message he's got is "Check". by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1
    Good story. It's a lot like how people can often ignore the multitudes around them, say in a restaurant or a movie theater, and go on as if they live in a private world (smooching, talking on the cell phone, etc) until someone does something very annoying and the "background person" pops into attention, and a ripple/wave of silence goes across the lunchroom cafeteria or movie theater.

    And I agree that people are more likely to fight against him: people always want to kill the messenger to avoid dealing with the existence of the underlying message. Killing the messenger doesn't nullify the existence or validity of the message. He's saying we're under check, and we better do something before we're under check-mate. At the check-mate message, well, we may accept the message, but it's too late to do a damn thing about it.

  49. What are you smoking? by tlambert · · Score: 1

    The ability to record everything you say and do from one foot away and follow you when you leave the surveillance areas and continue to monitor you.

    I'm pretty sure you are missing this guys point. We are getting close to the threshold of their being no way to leave surveillance areas.

  50. Big Difference by pt73 · · Score: 1
    There is a big difference between an individual I don't know filming me and a corporation or government I can identify (especially after the fact). That difference is the repercussions of misuse on the recorder. A corporation or government agency that misuses a recording is likely to suffer repercussions for abuse of my image. For a business, it runs the risk of financial harm. For government, the risk is loosing the next election. However if I can't even identify the individual filming me, how could there be any repercussions?

    What's more, I could reasonably expect that an individual filming me on purpose is being provocative, and such an individual is likely of a mindset to also be provocative in the way he (or she) uses that video.

    1. Re:Big Difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should there be repercussions? If you don't want to be filmed don't go out in public. There is nothing at all provocative about it.

  51. Re:His actions/presence MAKE it different by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

    A much better test that would eliminate the CREEPY GUY factor, would be to just mount a camera on a tripod and place it by the doorway of a building or even in the middle of a crowd or public square and then walk away from it.

    It should also be tried with a cute robot. One with a huge-eyed chlidish face, makes occasional cute noises and says praise-like things. (You're interesting. You're pretty! What a splendid example of a human.)

    (And all its video goes to DHS and their monkeys make copies of the hot chick videos for masterbatory purposes, anything embarrassing/funny uploaded to youtube, etc.)

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  52. Good lad! by Peter+(Professor)+Fo · · Score: 1

    If I walk up to you in the street and ask you how old you are and are you married then you're going to be uptight. (You might decline of course but this is EMOTIVE territory.) Yet people blandly fill in forms with this and lots more connected information without worrying. Let's make it more creepy! 1001 CCTV cameras can see how short skirts are at any place today. So it'll be OK for me to approach women and take my tape measure out will it? The guy in the story is quite rightly pointing out that we have grown to accept Big Brother surveillance.

    1. Re:Good lad! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humans are hard wired to be put off by other humans who violate our personal space. We are not hard wired to be put off by inanimate objects. Yes surveillance cameras are disturbing. But this guy is just stupid. He is too dumb to figure out that what is bothering people is not the camera, it's him. As a result he fails to make his point if he even has one. He is probably just a jerk who is using a cause as an excuse to be a jerk.

    2. Re:Good lad! by neminem · · Score: 1

      If a random stranger walked up to me and asked me those questions, I would be confused and annoyed, and would tell him to screw off, this is true. If a random stranger emailed me those questions in a survey, I'd do the same thing. The annoyance wouldn't be that people know that information - I'm totally alright with people knowing it, you could probably figure out a lot about me just by googling, and I don't care at all. The annoyance would be someone coming up to me and bugging me, when I would expect to be left alone. Which I gather is what this guy is doing, too. I totally don't mind people (or corporations) knowing things about me, or even telling other people (or corporations) those things, things including pictures - I just don't want to be -bothered- by people (or corporations) for that information, unless they first identify themselves as to why they're asking, I agree that they're asking for a good reason, and they use the information for the agreed upon purposes. But if they can get it without bugging me, power to them.

      I would be pissed if I knew someone was taking pictures of me through the window of my apartment without my permission. Once I enter space I don't own, though, I have absolutely no reason to expect I won't be photographed, nor should I care (if I didn't want to be photographed doing whatever I was doing, I shouldn't have been doing it in a public space). I do, however, have an expectation not to be harassed by a guy (or corporation) with a camera. And that is the difference that the original post asked for: a guy following you around is obtrusive, cameras mounted on walls above you aren't.

  53. Easy answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is what he's doing different than those stationary surveillance cameras tucked away in buildings and public places?

    Out of sight, out of mind. Most people forget that every ATM is watching them, almost every public and corporate building all use surveillance cameras in one form or another. Some obvious, some not so much. They are so prevalent that most people simply forget they are there.

  54. He needs to explain better. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He should tell people he is filming them in case they commit any crimes.

  55. Hmm by DFurno2003 · · Score: 0

    First story I've read on Slashdot recently that was captivating enough for me to RTFA.

  56. Can't we all just get along? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I take pictures at random in public - still photos - and have gotten some hostile reaction. Even in the U.S., people seem to think I need permission to take a picture in a public place or of somewhere visible from a public place. I don't need to get permission. Why should I? Why should your dislike of something I do prevent my exercise of freedom of speech, in this case. If you want laws like that, you could move to North Korea, Russia, or communist China - perhaps the thinking there would agree with you more.

    Did the cops who beat up Rodney King get the video quashed on any sort of legal grounds? No, because they couldn't.

    As Diane Arbus said, any time you go out in public, you run the risk of being photographed.

  57. He's a creep, that's why. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Video cameras in drug stores are not following people around with a creep behind it. It's like we don't mind our friends taking pictures of us and we don't mind our friends walking up to us and sitting with us, but some creep, that's different. It’s like there is a difference between a drug store surveillance camera and some punky drug store employee following you around the store with a camera. There’s a difference. It's not about the camera. It's the creep holding it. Yes, it is hard for geeks to understand these things. Sad little idiot savants. But geeks can learn even though they are missing some things when it comes to the social intelligence department. Holy crap I can't believe we even need to have this conversation. And of course this is happening in Seattle the passive agressive geek capital of the world.

    1. Re:He's a creep, that's why. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The video cameras in drug store's aren't following you around with a creep behind it. They're following you around, peering over your shoulder, and looking down your 16 year-old daughter's shirt. Surely *that* must be better.

    2. Re:He's a creep, that's why. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lemme guess, you're the kind of person who goes out to a bar and only wants to hang out with friends. I could never understand people like you. You choose to go somewhere in public and still want to be little old introverted you.

    3. Re:He's a creep, that's why. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Video cameras in drug stores are not following people around with a creep behind it.

      And you know this, how?

      And we're not talking about drug stores. We're talking about all the corporate/government cameras out there in the wild.

      Statistically, the chances of being ogled at by creepy people is far greater in corporate camera land than in private creepsville photography simply due to the the numbers involved.

      But sure, you have a point about social dynamics. People are willing to overreact to things like birthday serial killers regardless of the actual threat factors involved.

      And of course, all that advertising teaches people to trust corps, think of them as their benevolent 'Big Brothers'. How's a lone creep to compete?

  58. What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, I'm serious. You're recorded either way.

    1. Re:What's the difference? by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      One is a file stuck in some random place that nobody is ever likely to look at. And even if they do, it's unlikely to ever be made public. The other is stuck on someone's camera and they might post it to Facebook or upload it to YouTube or any number of things that make it very public. There is a big difference between those two things, and that difference matters a great deal to me.

  59. what if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    somebody picks up a camera and starts following him? mirror effect?

  60. What about the lady screaming for help by chrismcb · · Score: 1

    What was going on with the lady screaming for help. I am guessing the people abducting her were security guards, because there was a security guard trying to stop the filming. But what right do they have to assault someone on public property? The didn't look like police officers. And the lady was screaming for help, and this guy was just filming?

  61. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a big difference between an individual I don't know filming me and a corporation or government I can identify (especially after the fact). That difference is the repercussions of misuse on the recorder. A corporation or government agency that misuses a recording is likely to suffer repercussions for abuse of my image. For a business, it runs the risk of financial harm. For government, the risk is loosing the next election. However if I can't even identify the individual filming me, how could there be any repercussions?

    You seriously believe you have a bigger chance of recourse against a corporation or government agency than against a mere private citizen?! Please email me your dealer's contact info as it appears he carries some good shit...

  62. Re:His actions/presence MAKE it different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The thing is, though is that there IS often a creepy guy; he's just in a room somewhere operating the camera out of sight.

  63. Remember the voltair quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I may not agree with what you say (or do) but I will fight to the death if you piss me off, I have concealed carry, you bastard!".

  64. Government censorship is fine, then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it is censorship done under the authorisation of people who have been democratically elected by society to preserve the best interests of that society.

    Unlike the censorship of the private companies.

  65. Re:His actions/presence MAKE it different by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    watching me scratch my balls and walk out of 7-11 with three cases of beer, lottery tickets and an illegally sized Big Gulp

    I don't get the Big Gulp reference, but as for the rest, who fucking cares?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  66. Horrible Example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't believe this proves anything. It's one thing to have a STATIONARY camera look at a specific area, albeit an area you can avoid to not be on camera, and it's a completely different and annoying thing to have a stranger breaching your private space (the 2 feet surrounding you) by sticking a camera in your face and refusing to move away.

    We often associate stationary surveillance cameras as tools for security, used to protect us and witness anything of importance in its line of sight. This nothing like that, this is just some man recording people and posting it online, something the people videotaped probably know will happen and are aggravated because they don't want it to happen.

    He should have just put a surveillance camera next to a building, put a TV under it showing what the camera sees. Then put a poster somewhere stating that "we can see you". That more closely represents the Big Brother environment we live in today, for anyone who actually has a problem with it.

    I personally do not care for public surveillance cameras. They are fixed, I can avoid them. I'm in public so I somewhat expect it. But if a man started to record me for his own personal gain or for some sort of prank. I'd just walk away as I tell him to stop videotaping me.

  67. Corporations can't don't have "alone time" by S1ngularity · · Score: 1

    Trying to fire up my euphemism engine here at work. I think that an individual recording you causes you to think of all the unseemly things that individual might do with pictures of you in their private collection. Law enforcement and corporations are just abstract enough that we can't easily imagine them doing gross things while looking at them. (Just one idea)

  68. It is not polite to stare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I understand the point that the cameraman is trying to make but the way he's doing it... well it's like being stared at in public, isn't it?

  69. Simple solution by Geeky · · Score: 1

    1. Get a couple of children in line of sight of his camera.
    2. Scream that there's a pedo videoing kids.

    --
    Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
  70. Law Changing Douche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I probably shouldn't be surprised, but as a photographer, this is how stupid the populace is. I usually have better results than this, but it's amazing the stupidity of people coming out of buildings and telling him to stop taking video because they're an American or whatever, even though he didn't enter the building and he's on the sidewalk. These people are retarded, and I occasionally have to deal with them, although, unlike this guy who plays dumb, I explain the law to them instead. Spelling the law out is not the best opening line, but you kind of have to explain it to them when they try to grab and detain and restrict you.

    I think he is editing the video to show only people he finds offensive, and people overreacting is kind of bad, mind you, he is being very obnoxious about it, but the video of the cab driver was a nice reaction, and I'm assuming he included it, not because he's a nice guy, but because he seeks to make everyone look bad and he thought the cab driver would look like a racist.

    The fact that he goes into buildings and everything is crossing the line a little, too, and when people ask him to leave, he's sometimes defiant, in some of the videos. That kind of obnoxious behavior could threaten the rights of real photographers if new laws are passed or interpreted.

  71. Fuck this guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck him. I've smashed a fuckers' phone who was recording me, and if I ran into this fuck I'd do the same goddamn thing.

    I don't like surveillance and I don't like people doing this kind of shit. He's making a point by being just as obnoxious and offensive as what he's protesting. Fucking asshole.

  72. Re:Should have used HOSTS file, Seattle! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not apk. It's some troll that apk got the best of who couldn't deal with it like a normal human being would.