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Killer Asteroids Are Good For Life

Hugh Pickens writes "NASA reports that according to a study by Rebecca Martin and Mario Livio asteroid collisions may have provided a boost to the birth and evolution of complex life on earth delivering water and organic compounds to the early Earth and accelerating the rate of biological evolution with occasional impacts to disrupt a planet's environment to the point where species must try new adaptation strategies. 'Too many asteroids, and you've got an unrelenting cosmic shooting gallery, raining fiery death from above,' writes Fraser Cain. 'Too few asteroids, and complex life might not get the raw material it needs to get rolling. Life never gets that opportunity to really shake things up and evolve into more complex forms.' Martin and Livio suggest that the location of an asteroid belt relative to a Jupiter-like planet is not an accident. The asteroid belt in our solar system, located between Mars and Jupiter, is a region of millions of space rocks that sits near the 'snow line,' which marks the border of a cold region where volatile material such as water ice are far enough from the sun to remain intact. 'To have such ideal conditions you need a giant planet like Jupiter that is just outside the asteroid belt [and] that migrated a little bit, but not through the belt,' Livio explains. 'If a large planet like Jupiter migrates through the belt, it would scatter the material. If, on the other hand, a large planet did not migrate at all, that, too, is not good because the asteroid belt would be too massive. There would be so much bombardment from asteroids that life may never evolve.'"

22 of 70 comments (clear)

  1. Nice, but speculation by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

    This is nice, but it is entirely speculation. There really isn't enough data to make a conclusion.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:Nice, but speculation by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course it's speculation. How do you think you figure these things out? Time travel?

      But it is potentially useful speculation. Instead of trying to find life on everything floating around random bits of fusion, look for specific parameters. Basically, one is attempting to Goldilocks the Drake Equation. Since there appear to be lots of lots of bits of rock orbiting random stars this can be a useful thing.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Nice, but speculation by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it is potentially useful speculation.

      No, it's not terribly useful.

      Instead of trying to find life on everything floating around random bits of fusion, look for specific parameters.

      We can speculate that it takes a certain type of asteroid belt for a planet to have complex life, but since we don't have real evidence to prove that, it would be premature to filter our planet search based on a parameter of which we don't know the relevance. Especially since the only way to figure out whether it's relevant would be to look hard at all planets, in order to confirm or disprove the hypothesis.

      Relying on a hypothesis that turned out not to be valid has already slowed down exoplanet searches once. Hot super-Jupiters could have been found by transit searches long ago, but nobody thought to devote resources to do the observation, since "of course" Jupiter-sized planets could only exist at high distances from their stars.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    3. Re:Nice, but speculation by tinkerton · · Score: 2

      I think it's not even nice. It rests on the assumption that the earth needed some kind of external kickstarter to get life going which goes back to the conception that there was no way life could start from scratch so it had to come from elsewhere.

      Let's take the idea seriously instead that the earth never needed the external kickstarter. Instead, and that any potential kickstarter would have been drowned out by what's already present.

      Like comets delivering water to the sea.

  2. Not as good for life as Alien spaceships... by Andy+Prough · · Score: 2

    ...full of advanced life forms...

    1. Re:Not as good for life as Alien spaceships... by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      Or to put it another way, not as good for intelligence. On the balance killer asteroids are pretty bad for life, but many of the life forms that survive must develop the ability to adapt rapidly to sudden and drastic environmental changes. The best way to do this is simply to get smarter. Now it may be a roulette wheel spanning hundreds of millions of years, but I think that eventually intelligence must emerge wherever there is a life in a relatively unstable location, since it is the ultimate evolutionary advantage.

  3. Good for life by rossdee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But not as we know it, Jim

  4. We don't need any more of those. by yog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It was perhaps great for life back in the old days a couple billion years ago. But it wouldn't be very good for us today. Can we not have any more mass extinction events, please?

    Anyway, we're doing a pretty fair job of causing our own mass extinction. Nuclear war, tailored viruses, nano-machines run amock, artificial intelligence that wants us gone. Yup, lots of chances to do ourselves in and give the Earth a chance to start over.

    --
    it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
    1. Re:We don't need any more of those. by Joehonkie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When have any of those things you mentioned other than nuclear war ever come close to happening outside of a sci-fi novel? Why don't you concentrate on real problems.

    2. Re:We don't need any more of those. by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      When have any of those things you mentioned other than nuclear war ever come close to happening outside of a sci-fi novel? Why don't you concentrate on real problems.

      ... Said the dinosaur to the Ministry of Genetic Aeronautics.

      Chickens Survive.

    3. Re:We don't need any more of those. by camperdave · · Score: 2, Informative

      When have any of those things you mentioned other than nuclear war ever come close to happening outside of a sci-fi novel?

      Tunguska - 1908, and many other places.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:We don't need any more of those. by kasperd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When have any of those things you mentioned other than nuclear war ever come close to happening outside of a sci-fi novel?

      It does not only happen in sci-fi novels, it also happens in sci-fi movies. Somehow because it happens in sci-fi, lots of people think it is likely to happen in the real world as well. Why are people so easy to manipulate, that just because you make fiction about something, lots of people will actually perceive it as a real threat?

      There are real threats to mankind, but I don't think mankind is a threat to life in general. We are a threat to specific species, including ourselves. But though we may cause many species to go extinct, I don't believe we could wipe out life on Earth. But is earthlife going to survive when the Sun boils away our oceans millions of years from now? If mankind goes extinct, will there be enough time for a new civilisation to develop the capability to travel through space in the Earth's lifetime?

      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    5. Re:We don't need any more of those. by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      Nuclear war, tailored viruses, nano-machines run amock, artificial intelligence that wants us gone.

      How about simple clearcutting and creating lots (and lots and lots) of smoke by burning stuff? I know, how mundane...

  5. Fermi Paradox by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is amazing how little we know about the universe. Not amazing in terms of "why don't we know this stuff", but amazing in terms of "there is so much to learn that it makes what we know seem infinitesimal."

    Logic and what we know already point to a universe filled with intelligent life or at least life. Yet we seem so all alone. Are we the first? Are we in a universe filled with life and cannot detect it? Has this universe been abandoned by all the more advanced life forms and we're one of the few left? Are we in a zoo?

    All of these questions, and we only have speculation for answers. I'd expect to have some answers to these question in the next generation or two. We're detecting planets at an accelerating rate and are getting to discover smaller planets now that Kepler has had enough time to get enough transits for the further away planets. Our detection of radio waves ability is improving and we now have better targets to try out.

    While we may not have all the answers, I would expect by 2050 to know how common life is, but part of me wonders if we haven't detected intelligent life by then if we are not truly alone in this galaxy. I shudder to think that might be true, but it is a real possibility. We live in exciting times, and I thank those that have made missions like Kepler possible.

    -- MyLongNickName

    1. Re:Fermi Paradox by VortexCortex · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It would be pretty amazing to me if ours were the only life in the cosmos. On the otherhand, at night I just look upwards and gaze at all of the Space there is yet to Conquer.

      It's an almost insurmountable task -- One that will take the peaceful cooperation on a planet-wide scale to do, but I do believe it's possible for our race survive the hostilities the Universe throws at us. I nearly shed a tear each time I hear of NASA funding getting cut while trillions are wasted on pointless war efforts. If our primary goal as a species isn't getting some of our eggs out of this one basket, then we're surely doomed...

      However you look at it, we've been dealt an amazing hand. When I hear folks talk about fixing problems at home first before venturing into space I think, "What a waste it would be to fold so soon."

    2. Re:Fermi Paradox by na1led · · Score: 2

      The Universe is full of life, it's their time and distance that sets them far apart. It's like trying to locate a firefly across the globe within a 1 second window.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
  6. 100 percent of the time, everytime by Jessified · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Basically, intelligent life can only evolve under circumstances identical to the way we evolved.

    "100 percent of the cases where we know life evolved, these circumstances prevailed. Therefore..."

  7. Killer asteroids are like political change. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You know what they say about new legislation or technology. All the people who are going to lose jobs or otherwise affected by the newfangled thing or the new law are going to know it and oppose it fiercely. But the people who might benefit from the new technology or the law might not even know they are going to benefit. So they discount the future, become lackadaisical, and ignore the whole thing.

    Killer asteroids are good to life that might emerge after the collision. But if you poll the existing life on the planet? meh! Its popularity is going to be very very bad.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Killer asteroids are like political change. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

      Killer asteroids are good to life that might emerge after the collision. But if you poll the existing life on the planet? meh! Its popularity is going to be very very bad.

      Polls showed that dinosaurs were strongly against the KT event, but more mammals showed up to vote. And the avian protest vote didn't help the dinos either.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  8. Hand-waving and inconsistencies by arisvega · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Snowline"-based conjectures actually postulate that Jupiter was formed exactly because of its location on the snowline: since this snowline has to be a sharp boundary(1), a locally-enhanced density area, radially symmetric around the Sun(2), is created and collapses into a massive planet because it rapidly accretes material(3) from its neighborhood.

    I have seen a lot of hand-waving used to fill in the gaps (note: "hand-waving": (idiomatic) Discussion or argumentation involving approximation, vagueness, educated guessing, or the attempt to explain or excuse vagaries) on where and when a gas giant actually forms in a snowline, and how exactly planets 'migrate'.

    (1) sharp boundaries may not be as common as you think: there is only a handful of computer models that actually take into account the three-dimensional structure of the accretion disk (proto-planetary disk, a very computationally expensive problem) and lots of physics are lost in 2D simplifications.

    (3) Fairly recent observations have shown that complex organic molecules are present in Giant Molecular Cloud structures, long preceding the formation of any star or planet. The mechanism of their creation and their distribution is mostly unknown, and an active area of research, as of course is the formation of planetary systems. Hand-waving has not produced any robust results as of yet. Computer modeling, on the other hand, looks more promising.

    --
    The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
    1. Re:Hand-waving and inconsistencies by arisvega · · Score: 2

      Doesn't common sense just confirm the sun has to be similar to what it is today?

      No: as matter accretes to the centre of the disk, the central object becomes more and more massive, and it radiates energy out via what is called the Kelvin-Helmholtz mechanism. To make matters even more complicated, an astrophysical non-equillibrium jet is formed during the accretion process through which the disk parts energy and angular momentum. So the central object only becomes Sun-like in its properties when this jet dissipates, and its mass is enough to start a thermo-nuclear, pressure-sustained fusion of Hydrogen to Helium in its core. Even then, the fusion energy does not radiate out immediately because it has to escape the early-Sun through its outer layers. So, seen from the outside, it certainly does not look like the Sun you see today, and there are significant uncertainties regarding the exact timescale of this whole process.

      If it was not a sun at the time or was a smaller sun, Jupiter would be the most massive body in the solar system so, matter would tend to orbit it instead, wouldn't it?

      Perhaps: matter that is within the appropriate range of the gravitational domain of an accreting object would accrete onto that object instead. Also, once all available matter in the immediate neighborhood falls into baby Jupiter, it cannot grow any more (called "starvation" in the literature). But again, the exact quantitative details as to how that happens, and how long it takes (i.e. if the Sun formed first, or if Jupiter formed first), are something that only modelling can answer.

      --
      The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
  9. Re:So - you're saying 60% of the time... by Andy+Prough · · Score: 2

    So - intelligent life is actually made up of real bits of panther then? Fascinating!