Ask Slashdot: Which International Online Music Stores Are Legit?

rjnagle writes "I'm an American lover of music who is interested in buying legally music from other countries. How do I know which CD/online music stores are legit and actually benefit the artist? I'm very cost-conscious and prefer indie music anyway, but the types of international music for sale on Amazon/iTunes tends to be from the bigger labels. Suppose I wanted to buy music from Pakistan/Ukraine/China/Brazil/Chad. What's the best way to identify which labels or online stories are authorized to sell them? Perhaps all I need is a list of the best known online music stores for each region (Yesasia.com, etc)."

Comments

Hard to tell

[vikingpower]

AFAIK, the line between "legit" and "illegal" is blurry in at least two of the countries the author mentions.

Re:Hard to tell

[Xest]

That and I think "legit" and "benefit the artist" are largely mutually exclusive most of the time.

National and international music federations like the RIAA, IFPI, etc. seem to get to decide what sites are and aren't legit, yet they're also the organisations whose sales least benefit the artist.

As someone else said, paying the artist direct where possible is the best option, but even that assumes the artist has the rights to sell directly their produce and hasn't signed over all sales rights to an organisation as described above.

Re:Hard to tell

[Xest]

Possibly, but using probably the most succesful artist of all time as a data point doesn't really tell you much about the situation in general.

Re:Hard to tell

[jonwil]

Look at what happened to allofmp3.com. Followed all the laws in Russia. Paid all the required money to the Russian music licensing agency. Yet it was still targeted by the RIAA who claimed it was "illegal"

I suspect it would be quite hard to find any digital music store in some of these Asian countries that is both accessible to the USA AND would be considered acceptable/legit by the RIAA.

Re:Hard to tell

[Xest]

Agreed. Many artists only have themselves to blame for being too lazy to sort their own affairs. But I'm not surprised as the artists who are too lazy to do this also happen to be the ones that believe in perpetual copyright - i.e. those who only want to spend a few days in a recording studio actually working, and then profit off it for life. The whole situation is born entirely out of the fact that these sorts of artists are simply bone idle layabouts.

It's no different to any other industry, if you want to make the real money from your skillset you do it yourself as a contractor and sort your own tax dealings etc.

The only problem is that most musicians nowadays know full well that they wouldn't make it as a "contractor" because the flip side of being a contractor is that you have to be uniquely skilled enough that someone is willing to hire you. Most modern artists simply don't have the raw talent to make it without the music industry acting as a crutch for them.

Hopefully though, given time, those artists with both the competence and the work ethic to actually do what needs to be done to self publish will become ever more prominent, pushing the layabouts dependent on the music cartels into irrelevance.

actually benefit the artists?

[Anonymous Coward]

None. Bottomline buy direct whenever possible. Contact the artist if you can't.

Re:actually benefit the artists?

[slim]

Yes. This. And it only occurred to me recently.

I'd seen a band at a festival, and decided to buy some of their stuff. I could have just gone to Amazon, and usually I would have done. But on a whim, I posted on their facebook page -- "hey, if I want some of your CDs, which online shop gives you the biggest cut of the profit?" They replied "buy it direct from us".

I ended up sending a cheque in the post to a residential address -- and the CDs arrived a few days later, and I have warm and fuzzy feelings from supporting the artist. They also had "tour exclusive" CDs which weren't available any other way.

Of course if I'd had my wits about me, I could have bought those CDs from them at the gig.

It might be harder work with World Music, but it's surely worth investigating.

All of them

[gmhowell]

All of them are legit for certain values of 'legit', 'international', 'music', 'benefit', and 'artist'.

In other news, we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Seriously, if you find a store that meets ALL of those criteria, anywhere, it'll be the first. I think the only way to do that is to find a copy of the music anywhere you want, then throw a buck or ten to whomever you decide is the artist. In the case of a RIAA (or local equivalent) band, there's a good chance that the actual artist is not the official artist of record.

Re:All of them

[Canazza]

Maybe he's on about the artists who only sing the songs, as opposed to the artists who write it for them?

Most of the Boy/Girl bands out there have their songs written by professional songwriters so if you're going to throw them a buck, you have to decide which party to donate to.

Re:All of them

[rtfa-troll]

Look up session musicians. Most RIAA "artists" are chosen for their looks. Giving money to RIAA labels is (mostly) supporting the true "pirates" of the music seas. If you want to support artists, go see a band playing live. Even then, avoid major label bands who nowadays have to sign over their concert rights.

Re:All of them

[pecosdave]

Wear your skinny jeans, ride a fixed gear bike there, and don't forget the ironic glasses, hat, and mustache, especially if you're a woman.

Re:All of them

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you have the advertisers, without which you would have never heard of the band.
And manager (shit does not just happen, someone has to make it happen, I'd guess it is rare that it is the band that does that).
And post-production team to make it sound good.
And the accountants to ensure taxes are filed in time and correctly.

And I'm sure 10s to 100s of other people that turn a band into viable business.

You could say that you only need to throw the money at the band, and let them handle all that shit.
And the band could say "throw it at the manager, we deal with the music, they handle all that shit".
Then the manager could just say "throw it at the label, they handle most of that shit more cost effectively than I".

Re:All of them

[History's Coming To]

The best selling songwriter in the UK is Mel C from the Spice Girls. Seriously. She writes a high percentage of all the UK produced pop songs. "Chart" music has very little to do with artists, it's more of a fashion marketing company than anything else.

Re:All of them

[pjt33]

And the accountants to ensure taxes are filed in time and correctly.

Are you sure that's the major role of the accountants in big labels? I thought their role was more to ensure that there were no profits, so there's no tax to pay. And nothing left to pay the musicians either.

Re:All of them

[tehcyder]

iconic glasses, perhaps?

No, he means ironic. Young fashion-victims often wear non-prescription-lensed glasses by expensive designers, which deliberately look like old-fashioned clunky thick plastic framed monstrosities from the 1950s. It is a way of saying "look, I am so cool and attractive that I can even wear these things on my face and still look beautiful while simultaneously paying homage to Jean Paul Sartre/Buddy Holly/whoever."

Re:All of them

[alexander_686]

Why focus on chart music when we should be focusing on music?

If a buy a Star Wars soundtrack, should I kick my money over to John Williams or the London Symphony Orchestra?

Face it – there are a lot of people who can write music but can’t carry a tune – see Bob Dylan. And there are a lot of people who can carry a tune but can’t write.

Not everybody can be a singer, songwriter, and business manager.

Magnatune

[Anonymous Coward]

Try magnatune.com

Fantastic music: Magnatune works with artists directly, not with record labels, and all their music is hand-picked. On average, they accept 3% of submissions

Perfect audio quality: you get CD quality audio WAV files, as well as super-high quality VBR MP3s, AAC, and open source friendly FLAC and OGG formats

No DRM: No copy protection (DRM), you can do what you like with your music

Listen to everything: all their albums can be listened to in their entirety before you become a member

Download everything: their monthly membership allows you to download anything from their entire catalog--no limits.

Musicians get paid: 50% of your purchase price goes directly to the musician, not to labels and their lawyers

Album art: every album includes high quality album art (in both Adobe Acrobat and 300DPI JPG formats)

Give to your friends: They encourage you to give 3 copies of any music from your membership to your friends

Artists direct: They sign contracts directly with musicians, so you can rest assured that they can legally license music to you, and no middlemen get in the way of the artist's royalties

Podcast-legal: non-commercial podcasters can use their music for free

No major labels: they have absolutely nothing to do with major labels or the RIAA

Financially support Open Source: they financially support several open source projects such as Amarok and Rhythmbox

Re:Magnatune

[ColdWetDog]

Magnatune is worth a try. Last time I looked, they were a bit expensive unless you really liked their catalog and downloaded a bunch. The catalog is rather eclectic. But you can certainly try before you buy.

Re:Magnatune

[olau]

I bought a lifetime membership of Magnatune not long ago for $240, after having followed them since their inception. They keep adding music to the collection, so at some point it went from "I should probably support these guys out of principle" to "they have enough music that this is a cheap deal".

In addition to your points above, John Buckman is a cool dude. You can write a comment on his blog and get a reply.

MOST artists have their own website

[Tastecicles]

Most artists have links to purchase or download their work on their website.

Go to the artists' website. There you'll likely as not find a link or ten to Amazon or iTunes if they have a pressed-disc contract, or to direct downloads via http/ftp or torrents or some other free method if they're that way inclined to distribute their music. It's a model that works - just go to the Stereophonics website and download an album or two - and donate what you want! They made more off a single album this way than they ever did through a Big Five label with all their other material combined!

Icelandic music

[arikol]

If you want Icelandic music then http://www.icelandicmusic.com/ is the real deal. Pretty good music that can be found there, but most of it obviously in a language that will sound like Klingon to most people...

Re:Icelandic music

[bikin]

Considering this is Slashdot, I'll bet that more people understand Klingon than Icelandic.

Indian/Pakistani Music

[vivtho]

You can download legit Indian and Pakistani music from Flyte which is a part of Flipkart (owned by Amazon)

benefit artist? hah hah!

[samjam]

Many "legit" stores do not benefit the artists!

Some sell the artists music without permission and do not reimburse the artists
http://torrentfreak.com/apples-itunes-sued-by-artist-for-pirating-music-110812/
http://forum.tunecore.com/post/Album-on-iTunes-without-permission-5680939

Sometimes the artists get no money because of extraordinary business practices by their music publishers or associations
http://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091203/1853507190.shtml
and for interest
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120323/18055718229/how-ascap-takes-money-successful-indie-artists-gives-it-to-giant-rock-stars.shtml

Sometimes the artists get no money because their music publishers instruct them not to register with the copyright agency of that country SO THAT the publisher can claim that the seller is not legitimate because the artists get no money.
http://www.transmissionentertainment.com/entry/russian_based_all_of_mp3coms_former_owner_may_see_jail_time_fines_and_a_mor/
http://allofmp3.ru/press/centre.shtml?s=994&d=66219728 : "Even without an agreement between ROMS and the rightsholders, it is our understanding that ROMS, in particular, has sent several letters to the major record labels inviting them to collect their royalties. Those notices have been ignored."
http://techcrunch.com/2007/07/25/former-allofmp3com-owner-faces-jail-time/

Sometimes it's a choice between
1. not paying
2. paying and the artist gets no money
3. paying and the artist gets no money and you support an abusive music industry
4. paying and the artist gets money and you support an abusive music industry

For mass music I opt for 2 where I can because I think it does least harm.
For less popular music I use CD-Baby and other self publishing sites or buy direct from the artist.

Online music buying

[aurizon]

Benefit the artist directly, as in you buy a song and the artist get a portion? None of the established music publishers, none on itunes - unless it is an artist submitted track - wherein he gets the $$, less the itunes bite. That is not to say the established music publishers do not pay their artists, they usually do, via various mechanisms - just not a direct slice from each download.
So find stuff listed by the artist, and buy those. In time the traditional publishers will fade away and all manner of created work, books, music, pictures, will involve direct purchase from the srtist via online purchase. There may be an online portal, like Amazon or itunes, but the artist will get the lion's share of the revenue. Now they get the mouses share - just a nibble.

Pakistani Music

[ryzvonusef]

For a sample of great Pakistani music (Legally!), visit Coke Studios:

http://www.cokestudio.com.pk/

As for buying, try the website of a label. One of the biggest labels is FireRecords:

http://www.firerecords.com.pk/

I will post more links as I find them.

The problem is, most of the music in Pakistan is from Indie bands, who are in it more for the passion than money; for those you will have to scour youtube and other fansites.

Re:Pakistani Music

[ryzvonusef]

And before you ask, yes, Pakistan has a thriving music scene, heck, quite a significant amount of popular *indian* music is actually Pakistani singers hired to sing for Indian movies.

We have everything from soft Classical to hard metal and every other shade in that gradient.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistani_music

One of the funniest moment was when the VICE guide visited Karachi, and as a contrast to the ever present violence, they decide to hit the local music scene...

http://www.vice.com/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-vice-guide-to-karachi-full-length

Re:Donate then infringe.

[meuhlavache]

Or try www.jamendo.com and donate

Streaming

[Hrshgn]

You could also use streaming services instead of downloading. Most of them come with a mobile client that can be used in offline mode.
They do pay their artists fractions of a cent for each song listened to.

To me, this kind of service is clearly the future. It's especially great to discover new music. If you listen to the same 100 tracks all the time, it's probably not cost-effective though.

Some sites I know:
http://www.deezer.com/ (no software necessary, can run in a browser, offline mode with chrome, apps for iPhone and Android)
http://www.spotify.com/ (never used, but they are well established in the market)

iTunes can also do something similar but I don't know their offerings.

Is this a joke?

[Areyoukiddingme]

Seriously, is this a joke? First, the list of countries is a who's who of who ignores copyright. China especially is legendary for pretending the concept doesn't even exist. Second, let's say in some fantasy world, these countries decide to honor copyright, at least of their own artists. Guess what happens? They grow a tumor known as "the Music Industry."

It's a horrifying system of lies and betrayals where a corporation demands artists sign for many many albums before they will publish the first album, then loads the bill with so much random assorted bullshit that by the end of the first album, the artist owes more to the record company than their record will earn. This cycle is repeated for each album. It includes such creative accounting as astronomical studio fees, ludicrous equipment fees, and "promotion" that never actually happens at all. Then, when the artist is played out even as catalog filler, they are dismissed, never to be heard from again. If they attempt to self-promote, they discover that the record company owns everything they ever did, may even own the name under which they did it, and will not even answer the phone if they attempt to negotiate to perform their own back catalog. Contract law is enforced with draconian measures against the artists, in favor of the record company, in an asymmetrical relationship that only misses literal slavery by a hair's breadth.

But all of that pales in the face of one monstrous truth: record companies steal more from artists than consumer copyright infringement ever has or ever will, and for one simple reason: record companies steal the proceeds of actual sales from artists. They lie about the accounting, claim with a straight face that the album has never turned a profit, and pocket every dime of the income. Actual money.

Let me repeat that, because it's something that keeps getting lost in all of Slashdot's attempts to talk about copyright. Record companies steal real money from artists. Enormous amounts of it.

What do you think pays for those asymmetrical laws, and asymmetrical enforcement? Stolen money. Boatloads of it. What do you think pays for all the propaganda Slashdot is forever at pains to fight? Stolen money. Actual stolen money. Consumer copyright infringement rarely involves money changing hands. The number of dupers who charge money for copies is microscopic. Certainly all downloading, including torrenting, does not involve money. So we all know the RIAA's claims of huge amounts of money "lost" are nothing but creative lies. What we persistently forget is the huge amounts of actual money being paid to them that the artists never see.

So I ask again, is this a joke? And if not, why do you hate those countries you named? Why would you wish upon them this cultural parasite that the US has? This parasite that is so bloated, so greedy, and so entitled that it has caused international incidents in the pursuit of its own thieving ways. The police (and citizens) of New Zealand have been humiliated and shamed for knuckling under to the demands of this "industry". I put "industry" in scare quotes because you should be scared of anything that has systematically raped culture and those who create it for nigh on a century.

The answer to your question is this: the artist. ONLY the artist. No other source is legitimate. No reseller, no record company, no middleman, no matter how altruistic they claim to be now, can be trusted. Nor should they be encouraged to develop in places that aren't already subject to this scourge. This is the Information Age. Indeed, I've heard claims that we're already in the post-Information Age. Go straight to the artists. Tolerate no middlemen. They will turn into monsters before your eyes if you give them any money at all. Keep them starved, and ignore them.

How then do you find artists, you ask? Ask your friends. Seriously. This has always worked best, and always will. A lot of the affect of music on human culture is the shared exp

Re:Offtopic comment

[michelcolman]

If you post your e-mail account's username and password as a reply to his comment, he'll be able to contact you directly.

A Word of Caution

[fearofcarpet]

I stumbled across an indie artist from Uruguay on a late-night radio show and wanted to throw a couple of bucks his way. I went to his band's website and followed the link to a legitimate online retailer for indie artists in Uruguay. The next thing I knew, weird charges started showing up on my credit card--e.g., someone in France started a WoW account, someone in the Ukraine started making a bunch of in-game purchases for online games, etc. Even though it was a "legit" site linked to by the artist with the proceeds going to the artist, either it was a front for stealing credit card numbers or had terrible security. Either way it was a PITA and not at all worth the album.

None of them

[ranulf]

While the might be legitimate in their own country, they're typically only licenced to distribute within their own territory, because other companies will have the distribution rights elsewhere. So, almost certainly, you won't actually have bought the right to use that music even though you paid money, because they didn't have the rights to sell you.