Slashdot Mirror
Hands-On With Intel's "Next Unit of Computing" Mini PC
crookedvulture writes "Intel's Next Unit of Computing has finally made its way into the hands of reviewers. The final revision is a little different from the demo unit that made the rounds earlier this year, but the concept remains the same. Intel has crammed what are essentially ultrabook internals into a tiny box measuring 4" x 4" x 2". A mobile Core i3 CPU provides the horsepower, and there's a decent array of I/O ports: USB, HDMI, and Thunderbolt. Users can add their own memory, storage, and wireless card to the system, which will be sold without an OS for around $300. Those extras raise the total price, bringing the NUC closer to Mac Mini territory. The Apple system has a bigger footprint, but it also boasts a faster processer and the ability to accommodate notebook hard drives with higher storage capacities than the mSATA SSDs that are compatible with the NUC. If Intel can convince system builders to adopt the NUC, the future of the PC could be a lot smaller."
...will be a worthy challenge.
Need to be smaller and cheaper and plug together like lego to allow me to add processing power. Now that I'd buy.
After pushing PC makers into going after the MacBook Air, Intel wants them to also go after the Mac Mini. News at ten...
Seems a bit too pricey to succeed, though.
and I might consider it. Looks like a reasonable HTPC, but without the video horse power to run ZSNES, other emulators, or even Linux native 3D games (not even necessarily the advanced ones) I won't consider it.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Does Intel know you can get a Nexus7 or chromebook for $200?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
No Wired, less volume than a Mini.
But really the no Wired network port is a big deal.
... a laptop in a box. Except without all the extra things a laptop comes with -- like battery, keyboard, speakers, screen, ethernet, etc. Cute, but that's all.
Speaking as the representative of one of the only companies who might have actually cared I can say this is a dead product.
The issue with this device is it is actually too small and the limitations are ridicules. 2GB of ram is not enough to run GNU/Linux let alone Microsoft Windows, I don't even understand why it is limited to 2GB. The thing appears to have two DDR3 slots so in theory it should be able to support up to 16GB. The 2GB will technically be “good enough” for the next three years. And humorously we aim for “good enough” right now in GNU/Linux land just because it is such a small market right now (even though we are setting it up so that it can take off).
However while you can install Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on it and have it work “good enough” for about 3 years there is no room to profit on these things. Not to mention we are one of the few companies with the catalog and resources to even begin to properly target this market with such a device. What happens when the user wants a DVD drive or a printer that works? The GNU/Linux ecosystem is a convoluted mess that requires an engineer with expertise in the subject to put together a proper catalog. Such a significant amount of "Linux hardware" is utter crap dependent on proprietary drivers and firmware.
Hilariously we sell a bit bigger boxes with much more powerful options too that sell really really well (although only Intel graphics because Intel's the only thing which can be properly supported on GNU/Linux system... stupid AMD/NVIDIA refuse to cooperate- yes- even Linus bitches about it-even if he won't admit non-free software is bad). The ram is up to 16GB now and we can ship with up to an i5 (i7 would work but Intel's being bitchy with releasing a i7 low power CPU without digital restrictions in the CPU so we won't ship them). Our similarly small system also supports wireless and and has a bunch of additional ports/options (SSD, etc).
Sadly we have the only systems that really work well in the industry.
If you want something that stops working after the next upgrade- go ahead and buy something from one of our competitors like System76. Cause that is the standard they are setting. No. No. I won't say who I work for because my concern is freedom and stuff that works. Not promoting the company I work for. If you give a shit about free software and getting hardware that actually works well you can easily find the company anyway.
And if your priority is gaming. Fine. Buy the crap hardware. But don't complain when you have to manually upgrade/install the drivers or the hardware stops working because you've decided non-free software works good enough. And yes- there is a lot of hardware for Linux which stops working. Just because you upgrade too frequently not notice or buy generally the right stuff doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just about every non-HP (and non post script) printer for example... has issues due to non-free drivers (and some HP printers do too- but there are a boatload of good ones with awesome documentation on the levels of support). A boatload of wireless cards (anything that isn't atheros just about) dependent on ndiwsrapper (which causes system instability by the way), and tons more. And no. We shouldn't have to reverse engineer NVIDIA's crap.
A quick look at the Mac mini shows them at $600 [500 i5] or $800 [1TB i7] so about half the price sans memory and hard drive. Ignoring the OS they are significantly better value, and you get to avoid all the Apple lock-in crap that is forced on you.
Though I have to admit both these options seem incredibly expensive vs the myrid of ARM choices out there with a variety of funky/functional enclosures, and use next to no power, running everything from XBMC; Full Desktop Linux; Android[TV], and more than anything require very little money a quick scan puts then in the price range of $30-$150
The reality is Intel are trying to make more money by doing what the SFF[Small Form Factor] manufacturers have been doing for years, bundle case+motherboard together for greater profit...only throwing a CPU into the equation, just when they need to start competing with ARM at the bottom end.
Ignoring the fact that its clearly not a gaming rig, the intel HD Graphics 4000, to put it in some kind of perspective I am currelty using Intel HD Graphics 3000 which allows me to play games like trine http://trine-thegame.com/site/ and Rochard http://www.rochardthegame.com/en/ both great Linux games
As for ZSNES please [snaps fingers],that was designed to run SNES full speed on a 486 with a SIS 630 chipset. Now BSNES now that is a different beast!!
trollololol
Not a troll, just a comment that is more a history reference, in a world where its been impossible to buy a PC without an OS for years http://www.zdnet.com/top-five-pc-manufacturers-fail-naked-pc-test-3039286228/ this is an article describing how difficult it was in 2007. The truth is Microsoft created the [propaganda] term "Naked PC" for "its dramatic value and as a means for creating the impression that it is evil to sell computers without operating systems because they might be used for so-called software piracy" http://www.linfo.org/naked_pc.html
What didn't we like about the Mac Mini? I haven't used an expansion port on a PC about 15 years other than a 3Dvideo card. And if I want a gaming rig I'll get something big and airy with lots of fans. If I need a grunt box, I'll run up a VM on my servers at work. For everything else the Mac Mini is perfect. I never understood why PCs we're so big these days. 90% of them are simple Web/Email/Word processors, the Mac Mini and new this Intel thing are all most of us need.
So basically it's everything we didn't like in Mac Mini
Who is the "we" my main problem with the Mac Mini is the Price, and this is half that, and has more flexibility. Not really sure what this has to do with Microsoft being stupid, this looks like bog standard hardware.
So Intel is basically taking creativity hints from Samsung. Why come up with ideas if someone has done it already for you...
My Windows is NOT slow, it's special!
"most of the world is convinced the PC is doomed"
I still can't take any writing seriously which begins by preaching the end of the PC. First, every computing-capable non-mainframe computer is a PC. Second, there will always be a need for PCs with "normal" computational capacity (meaning more than a mobile i3 cpu), of course in smaller numbers, but still. Remember, not everyone is only a content consumer living on tablets and small form factor AIO computers.
That said, I like these small devices, they have their use and place, in my home too. And I like that there are nice alternatives to Apple.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Actually that is Gigabit ethernet, something their products have had for a decade. Can't say the same about most low-end competition yet.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Indeed. If the price tag was lower I could see a market for it, but at $300 you can build/buy a significantly better box.
This "NUC" has an i3-3217U (1.8ghz / 2C)
You could get an A6-5400K (3.6ghz / 2C) for $65, an FM2 Micro ATX motherboard (USB 3.0 / SATA 6GB / DVI+HDMI / 2x DDR3 1866) for $50, and a MicroATX Slim case with 300W power supply for $75, totaling $190
Better CPU, better GPU, has multiple PCIE slots (with at least one 2.0 x16) and you can upgrade it. This Intel brick for $300..$320 (I read the article) has the CPU soldered on, and no PCIE slots so no upgrades of any kind ever, and the price quote doesn't include memory (which is why I didn't include any.)
I'm sure that you could also put together a better performing Intel box (using a Celeron G5xx series for instance) for about 60% of the money as well.
Looks to me like Intel over-produced some CPU's and/or chipsets and are looking to find a market for them.
"His name was James Damore."
First, every computing-capable non-mainframe computer is a PC.
Second, there will always be a need for PCs with "normal" computational capacity
I am not convinced that we will in a post-pc world...an always connected world maybe. but I disagree with you justification on defending a PC as a "personal computer", because tablets/Smartphones albeit incredibly powerful computing devices, and not tradition [Desktop] PCs. Ironically you recognise this by saying smartphones and tablets cannot do [well do badly], by accessing that traditional PC's [what you call "normal"(sic) PC's].
I'm kind of tired of people trying to defend traditional PC's. If you create Stuff [CAD; Programming; Large Documents; Design], as opposed to consume things on the couch or on the Public transport You use a PC. The reality is most people here have tablets; PCs; Smartphones and know what niche they all occupy [or know why they don't want one].
Please take a quick look at the soon to be available board being proffered at Parallella.org. or you can enjoy their videos. Now you can get the 16+2 core super computer for $99, or the 64+2 core super computer for $199. The board comes with plenty of I/O options and two GPIO bus board expanders. By the way the board is expected to run under 5 watts in use.
It comes with linux installed. I could easily imagine a computer dramatically smaller than an Mac Mini running at lower power with the selection of peripherals that nobody expects. This little machine is going to redefine computers and I hope Intel can hear those tiny feet running up behind them at this very moment.
Things are going to get more interesting by the day.
I'm not getting the impression that the Mac Mini is so much more expensive. On the contrary...
- Core i3 vs core i5/i7.
- No RAM (2 * DDR slots) vs 4GB RAM
- No HD vs 500GB/1TB HD
- HDMI, Thunderbolt (or GigE and an extra HDMI), 3 * USB2 vs GigE, Thunderbolt, HDMI, WireWire, 4 * USB3, SD Card, Speaker In, Speaker Out
- No OS vs OS X
I haven't used an expansion port on a PC about 15 years other than a 3Dvideo card.
We could translate your argument as "I splash money around like its going out of style so things like expansion ports are stupid"
Many of us use those expansion slots about halfway through the life of the machine in order to upgrade them inexpensively (like adding SATA 3.0 to a machine purchased when SATA 1.0 was still new), repair them when a specific component goes tits up (The NIC died? Thats a $15 card for full-on b/g/n wireless), or to add specific functionality that only comes standard on much more expensive machines..
"His name was James Damore."
Intel calls it NUC, for short, which is incredibly cute.
This CPU, with the incredibly catchy name Core i3-3217U, ...
... the DC3217BY, a lovely name that could double as a software registration key ...
(Emphasis mine) Huh? Are they being sarcastic or funny?
You could get an A6-5400K
Indeed.
I've been looking for a SFF PC recently, and the AMD choices are really weak.
The bobcat is excellent for this kind of thing. Significantly faster per-thread than the atom, equal number of cores and graphics certainly superior to an i3 or even i5 probably.
Or, the low end Fusion ones, which are weaker than the i3 per thread, but have more cores and stomp over the top end i5 when it comes to graphics.
Where are the cool little AMD PCs ready built?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
There are potentials for sales here.... Right now, today, the Mac Mini seems like a better deal. And, if one really wants to do so, there are a variety of ways to run Windows and/or Linux on the Mini. However, if a faster processor was available as an option and the price went down some, I could see a lot of these in the hands of consumers...
When I saw it called the "unit" of computing I thought maybe it was modular so I could snap together a few "units" of them to make it faster, bigger, etc.
Shoot, make it NOT expandable at ALL and simply modular, so more ram, more hd, more proc, etc, just click it together. Have variations, different colors mean more ram or more hard drive. Pair a unit with more ram with a unit with more processor.
Otherwise, whats the point? They've made a nettop with an i3 rather than a atom? Ok...
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
There doesn't need to be just one "unit of computing", does there?
Clearly, I wouldn't be able to use this new form factor for much besides a media player, but it might be useful to some people.
I doubt all of the full-size boxes over in the "Cases" section of MicroCenter are going to disappear any time soon.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Seriously? You think their production processes are so out of sync with demand that they had to try and invent/promote an entirely new platform to reduce the backlog?
I suspect Intel has buyers for most chips before they are ever produced. What I see is an attempt to build out on the original idea behind the various Atom motherboards they have been producing for years - small, good-enough systems that use less power and are designed for world markets, not necessarily the performance user in the first world.
Ken
Yes because MAC invented small PC's its not like the microATX was introduced in December 1997.
Perhaps what Apple invented was selling small PCs to the public. I don't believe Shuttle PCs were sold in brick-and-mortar stores, and the Mac mini predated the Revo by four years.
I LOVE the idea of this thing. I LOVE the size. I LOVE most of the choices and tradeoffs. i love the external power brick - and big fat Bronx cheer to Apple for abandoning that and bringing 110VAC right into their latest minis. Really stupid, Apple.
But so sorry...
1) No ethernet = HUGE FAIL
2) No USB3 and not enough USB's = HUGE FAIL
These are absolute showstoppers. Fix these and this thing is the answer to my prayers. I'll accept up to 1" more width and depth to get them.
Until then, it's not even close to making me abandon my Aopen Mini.
It looks nice, but the price is not right. $450 pays for a nice i3 laptop with screen, ethernet, keyboard etc...
If they could keep the price under $300 with 4gb of ram (at $10/piece retail) and a 500gb hdd (at $80 retail), then this would be interesting.
Many of us use those expansion slots about halfway through the life of the machine in order to upgrade them inexpensively (like adding SATA 3.0 to a machine purchased when SATA 1.0 was still new)
Yeah, because not having SATA 3 makes a machine ununsable...
repair them when a specific component goes tits up (The NIC died? Thats a $15 card for full-on b/g/n wireless)
Yeah, because if a NIC dies then it doesn't matter that it's probably part of the motherboard chipset and all of a sudden you have an expensive repair bill. Not to mention that wireless cards *are* plug-in PCIe cards on these mini form factor PCs...
or to add specific functionality that only comes standard on much more expensive machines..
I think you might be havign problems understandnig/empathising with what a 'normal' person is going to want out of a PC. Not only that, but even us geeks get bored of the PC treadmill after a while. The last desktop I bought was an iMac in 2007. It's old, it's tired and it just stopped working reliably this past week or so. I cant' easily fix it, but you know what, I got five solid years out of that workhorse. I don't care that I couldn't upgrade it -- despite being a programmer, and therefore as much of a 'power user' as anybody, 2GHz of Core2 Duo has been plenty fast enough -- and, if repairibility had been an issue, I'd have bought 3 years of Applecare and retired it when the warranty expired.
The MacMini is an excellent computer if you want a small, silent machine that keeps out of your way. If you want a toy to upgrade and play with, it's not so great.
People here seem to have forgotten what a proof of concept design is. This board is intended to inspire Intel's partners to take the basic building block, extend it in some certain way and address their cluent's needs. Like the Atom MBs. After Intel produced their first few Atom MBs all kinds if systems emerged - SuperMicro made some server MBs, others added better graphics support, etc.
I look at the NUC and I can easily imagine a system with similar specs, 8 gigs of RAM, 64 Gigs of local storage, a gigabit Ethernet port and a more conventional video/audio hook-up being reasonably successful in many call center, kiosk, and other high-volume applications.
I think the real goal of this proof of concept/product is to get people used to the idea of using miniPCIe SSDs on desktop systems - intel has made several MBs with these ports, but they don't get used very often - most system builders opt for 2.5" form factor SSDs.
How long before we see 'NUC co-location' offerings.
This reminds me of PCs that were once made that stuffed a PC into a 5 1/4" drive chassis and was designed to be installed in a desktop system.
Ken
This is a tech demo. Intel doesn't make full out of the box PCs (and might not, ever). This is to inspire hardware makers (cough, HP) who are otherwise totally screwed, to come up with something "new" in the PC realm. This is the form factor that will see growth in the future, the old days of a big box with a bunch of cards you could swap in and out are gone (unless you are a hard-core hobbyist willing to pay a price premium). The desktop systems made today by Dell, HP, etc are way too big for what they do (since they are often on par with laptops) so this kind of re-think is really critical.
Okay, and neither of those are comparably quick, or small to either this, or a MacMini...
The problem is that the A6-5400K is a 65W CPU, so theres no way you can get it into a case 4" by 4" by 2".
What didn't we like about the Mac Mini?
The price.
Unfortunately this Intel box is similarly expensive for what it is.
$300-$320? The original /. article was quoting prices of around $100, but it looks like it was more like wishful speculation. Where is the Ethernet port, memory or storage? Hell they don't even have an eSATA port which you can find on just about every motherboard these days. I can buy the parts to make a mini PC using an ITX board for less than $300 and that includes storage, memory and gigabit Ethernet plus eSATA. The CPU would be an AMD A series which has graphics that will wipe the floor with the i3's HD 4000.
The Extremetech article linked in the older /. summary shows mini PCIe slots on the board so expansion is not out of the question but there is no mention of them in the latest article. Thunderbolt is also pretty damn fast, 10Gbps, equivalent to the bandwidth of 2 PCIe 2.0 x1 slots. But if you really need expansion slots you could probably buy a micro ATX system for the same price.
What is the point of this system, size? No one will buy it as its marketed towards enthusiasts who know hardware prices and they wont touch this thing. If they want to charge that kind of money it better come with storage and memory, and a good deal of it to justify the $300 price tag. On Newegg, I can buy a Zotac ZBOX ID41 PLUS for $288 which is a 1.8GHz Atom, ION graphics, 250GB HDD and 2GB RAM.
If Intel is selling this thing as a barebones system, they better drop the price to $100, I would buy one for that price, would make a great mini server or control PC (for robotics, CNC etc.). If they added Ethernet and eSATA AND included RAM along with an SSD then the $300-$320 would be more appealing. Its now a turnkey system, just power it on and install your OS.
$200 scores you a 5x5 box with wireless, LAN, can fit a 2.5" drive, and has a dual core (sandy bridge?) intel processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173042
neither of those are comparably quick
Don't let the fact that the next unit of computing is marketed as having an i3 while the chip in his ITX build is marketed as a celeron fool you, look at the actual specs of the processor. A little extra cache and a slight core revision are not going to make up for a nearly 50% clockspeed difference.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
The review says it has a VESA mounting bracket. With that, you can probably hook it up to the back side of your monitor and make yourself a simple all-in-one pc. Of course, it will be less neat than the prepackaged options, but it will probably also be much cheaper and allow you to upgrade monitor and pc separately.
mac mini has Ethernet more usb and firewire as well.
well then to add cpus it may need some like a HTX (HyperTransport) bus.
Now maybe with some kind of a pci-e link at least 16+(more) + sata pass though.
thunderbolt is to slow as 1 video card can max out the bus and under power the video card at the same time.
at the end of the chain.
No I want a fixed Ethernet port at the start of the chain or on the main board.
Your argument is sound, but I wanted to point out that the volume probably doubles (at least) when you include the external brick power supply.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Try this one, at just over half the price of this Intel brick.
You could try googling for "amd fusion nettop", I hear all the cool kids are using google these days. That's how I found the above one, a review in the first page of results. You fail at the internets.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
1) The G550 is sandy bridge, not Ivy Bridge
2) The i3 has hyper threading
3) The Celeron is a 65W CPU, meaning it'll never fit into a 4x4x2 inch box.
I just built 2 itx boxes:
1 with a e-350 apu board, 8gb of ram, and a 1tb hard drive for $195.00 for everything.
1 with a intel g550, itx board, 8gb of ram,and a 1Tb hd for $265 for everything.
I just bought a Zotaz Zbox - AMD E-450, 2GB RAM, 64GB for $300 in the same formfactor as this "new" Intel formfactor: 4.17in x 4.17in x 1.46in
http://www.zotacusa.com/zbox-nano-xs-ad11-plus.html
Until I saw the price tag. Comparing those specs to a tablet or laptop, this is a pricey machine without an OS or monitor. I suppose I can see a market for this as a compact personal server, but still, no ethernet? I'm just not clear what market they are targeting with this.
So, it is just a Raspberry Pi with x86, built-in hard disk and $300 instead of $35?
I see you saying that you will buy a whole new computer if you need SATA 3.
I see you also saying that you blow reams of money on Apple hardware.
You have just proved that you too will splash money around like its going out of style, so for you things like expansion ports are stupid. In my world, its not expansion ports that are stupid.. its needlessly wasting money like a complete retard thats stupid.
"His name was James Damore."
Remember, not everyone is only a content consumer living on tablets and small form factor AIO computers.
The thinking is that the majority of home users are using their computers to view existing works rather than for medium- to heavy-duty creation of new works. As applications for light-duty creation become available for locked-down computers, more and more heads of household will choose not to own a computer that's not locked down. People who fear a "post-PC" ecosystem fear a loss of economies of scale that will cause the price of a computer that's not locked down to increase beyond a typical hobbyist's budget, much like a console devkit. By that point, only established businesses that can demonstrate a legitimate business need for a computer that's not locked down will be able to afford one, such as established software development companies.
In practice, things won't get more interesting until computer science professors figure out how to teach the average college student how to use 64 cores safely and effectively.
which case did you use? At that price i assume it was a steel and plastic job with no expansion slot.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
I see you saying
No, you don't.
need SATA 3
Need?
I see you also saying that you blow reams of money on Apple hardware.
No, you don't. I buy them as tools and carefully measure their return over the years. I use these machines in my business.
needlessly wasting money like a complete retard thats stupid.
Keep it classy.