Slashdot Mirror
Outrage In India Over Arrests For Facebook Posts
concealment sends in an AP report about an uproar in India over citizens arrested for their Facebook remarks. Quoting:
"As India's financial capital shut down for the weekend funeral of a powerful politician linked to waves of mob violence, a woman posted on Facebook that the closures in Mumbai were 'due to fear, not due to respect.' A friend of hers hit the 'like' button. For that, both women were arrested. Analysts and the media are slamming the Maharashtra state government for what they said was a flagrant misuse of the law and an attempt to curb freedom of expression. The arrests were seen as a move by police to prevent any outbreak of violence by supporters of Bal Thackeray, a powerful Hindu fundamentalist politician who died Saturday."
Slashdot is becoming a long list of arrests by the state for political speech on social media. The sad news is that there is so much to report. Keep bringing it to light /.
Lots of groups and countries are pushing for laws against the defamation of religion and blasphemy.
But when you lose the right to say "well, see, I don't believe in your god, and I see no evidence for it" -- then society has been taken over my the most vocal (and in some cases violent) people.
But, in some places, if I said "show me the evidence that Jesus was at least a historical person, let alone the son of god" ... or "Why should I believe that Mohammed was the prophet of god" ... there would be angry mobs ready to burn and stone me because I hurt their feelings. And in many countries, the police would be there to help them.
We will be seeing more attempts by people to enshrine in law respect for their imaginary friend.
The more restricted the speech, the more violence that comes of it. Censorship actually foments a culture of violence and hate. People will be offensive no matter what. I prefer they do it verbally. The physical alternative is much uglier.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
This /. news post came right after Google Warns Against UN Net Conference
I do not agree with most of his policies and his methods however it is very simplistic to label Bal Thackeray as a Hindu fundamentalist.
(1) I'm outraged that people are being arrested for shit they say on Facebook.
(2) I'm outraged that the entire world seems so stupid as to think it's a good idea to tie real identities to everything they say online SO THAT people who want to use that speech against them are able to. (Never mind that the stupid shit you might have said at 17 will still be there nice and searchable when you are 52 and trying to become mayor).
Report: Every Potential 2040 President Already Unelectable Due To Facebook>
"the closures in Mumbai were 'due to jejune ennui, not due to piquant verisimilitude.' "
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
Understand that you don't have second amendment rights unless you live in the US. Different countries have different laws. So understand country that you live in, its laws and its society. Understand the ramifications of your online comments. If your comments are in violation of the local law then be sure that you want to post those comments and be prepared to back it up all the way and be prepared to fight. Don't let a careless comment get you into trouble. The girl in question even claimed after her arrest that her Facebook account was hacked two days before she posted the comment. Not exactly a free speech champion.
Religion. Religious practice. Religious law. Theocracy.
If you practice it, you are being told what to think and what to believe. And if religious power is also the power of government, you've ALWAYS got a real problem on your hands *even* in cases where you are a practicing member of the established ruling religion.
On top of that, religion seeks to be the presumed origin of morality and that without religion, there would be no morality. This is demonstrably false, but as with nearly everything else associated with religion, they have no problems with spreading lies about their faith.
People don't need religion. They need to respect each other and to defend each others rights because to defend the rights of others is to defend your own. Religion plays no role in this except to encourage people to judge one another which is not quite what I would consider to be respectful in most cases.
This case has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with inequality.
Inequality in India is so great, it is hard for anyone who hasn't visited to even begin to comprehend its magnitude or ramifications. To provide some sort of weak analogy take the 5 boroughs of New York and imagine that in Staten Island, Bronx and Queens no one has ever gone to a school. Brooklyn has only primary schools. Manhattan has a couple of high schools and one University which can provide a college level education to around 5-10 blocks. In such a city what kind of a debate are you going to have about religion or freedom or expression?
Here, get an education - you ignorant gringo tourist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji
Shivaji Bhosle was a local freedom fighter from Maratha history, akin to Robin Hood. He fought to protect the rights of local Marathas, waging hit-and-run battles against the Moghul Empire and standing up for the local people against the tyranny of Moghul invaders from the north over his native Maharashtra.
Bal Thakre and his supporters are also Maharashtrians, and Thakre formed the Shiva Sena ("Army of Shivaji") to stand up for the rights of his local Maharashtrian ethnic group, who were being bullied and pushed around by all the carpetbaggers flooding into his local area from across the country.
You see, the ruling Congress One Party State has been in power for 53 out of 65 years in New Delhi, ruling the country like an Emperor, caring very little for development of the local people. The Congress Party were basically founded by North Indians and are centred around their ethnic group, and they look down upon non-northern ethnic groups including Maharashtrians, insisting that everyone else assimilate into North Indian culture. The Congress Party has only been interested in hanging onto power and never cared to really foster development around the country, so what few big cities India has have then turned into dumping grounds for people from all over, who then flood into these sole few overcrowded localities, like India's largest city of Mumbai. All this does is keep compressing the people who already live there.
I'm a North Indian myself, but I have enough decency to at least be self-aware of how shabbily my ethnic group treats others in India, since we are in fact the dominant ethnic group in the country. Of course, most of the Indian media are from my ethnic group, and my Hindi language is also the dominant language of the country, so nautrally we always get to tell the story from our viewpoint, while conveniently glossing over the views of others. Our narrative is therefore the dominant narrative, while others are quickly labeled "extremists", etc to delegitimize their viewpoint. That's the mutual admiration society and the fool's paradise we like to foster for ourselves.
The Shiv Sena is not a theological organization, but simply born out of a backlash against the massive influx of people from outside the region. We Northies just like to say they're fundamentalists -- it's much easier to dismiss your antagonist as a "fundamentalist redneck" than to actually try to take a closer at their grievances, because nobody likes to see their own warts by holding up a mirror to themselves.
We get ample help from ignorant people like yourself, who'd ignorantly and uncritically parrot anything sensationalist claims they read or hear, without having any actual familiarity with the local politics.
If there is a discussion about the theory of evolution and someone says: "carbon-14 dating is not reliable evidence because test results that don't fall in the range expected by the scientists who made the hypothesis are typically rejected" he will get modded down just the same as someone who goes on a long, weird diatribe about extra-terrestrials sex experiments and african-american homosexuals (usually in less politically-correct lingo).
That is the flaw of the moderation system; it's mostly statements that make consensus among the voting crowd that remain visible, everything else is modded down with no distinction between actual trolls, obvious spammers and dissenting voices. This is no different from Putin sending those rocker girls to the same jail where they hold common criminals and actual terrorists. Maybe there is a missing dimension in the moderation system so people who just want to read comments from people who think exactly like them can do so without preventing actual discussions to go on.
lucm, indeed.
When you can't use logic and evidence to defend your beliefs, violence is all you have left. And to the sort of person that confuses mythology with history, violence seems completely justified.
There is a continuing trend towards atheism/agnosticism all over the world, and as it continues expect the hold-outs to become even more violent.
Here ya go, Prof Chomsky - here are some pictures of statues built in homage to Shivaji, India's own Robin Hood, who fought for the weak and the oppressed - a real actual person from history, and not a fictional multi-limbed mythological deity:
http://www.indialine.com/travel/maharashtra/shivajiheritage.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/subratomitra/6073279079/
http://500px.com/photo/5242560
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shivaji_Statue_Apollo_Bunder_Front_View.jpg
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/27769369
Shivaji's dog:
http://amitkulkarni.info/pics/raigad-fort/picture-gallery/Statue-of-Shivaji-pet-dog-Waghya.php
Yes, he even made it to California:
http://ekmarathimanoos.blogspot.ca/2011/11/american-shivaji.html
Just please don't go around telling people that Jesus Montero was a central figure in the Bible, rather than a baseball player.
Does this hypothetical nirvana still have a 2nd amendment...?
Bal Thackeray was Maharashtrian and pushed for Maharashtrian people to have the most govt jobs in Maharashtra. So most cops in Mumbai are Maharashtrian, and they are devoted to worshiping him like a God for making that happen.
He was also known for inciting violence (hence the comment about 'fear').
So, you may not speak badly about him, not in Maharashtra anyway.
And you hurt my feelings. I want to burn and stone you.
Indians
Asshole. Internet: See Techdirt.
People plus govt. plus Internet == clusterfuck, these days. Get used to it. This crap's going to go on for a long time.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
It is not easy to get a license. Which is a good thing imho.
More info here - http://mrunal.org/2012/07/polity-right-to-weapons.html
who mod people down for mentioning the Jews' power and their ongoing destruction of every white country on Earth... Most of you idiots would like to see ME imprisoned for merely saying things you don't like. (Or can't face, more like).
www.tomate-bubble.com
Bal Thackeray chose fascism/bigotry/politics as a career to make money for his family.
In 1970's I've seen him roaming without slippers in Bombay streets.
His contribution to development of India is zero.
Casteism
to the annals of history.
ultranova, however, may very well live forever. You just don't know, nor do you have any final control over that.What you say can and will be used against you, and against others as well.
This is why anonymity, real anonymity is so important. It is also why accountability, real accountability is important as well.
But unfettered speech must prevail, even if some are harmed. Anything else is just the start of oppression.
....only exists where blood was shed to obtain it, and blood is shed to maintain it.
Most people are far too chickenshit for the pursuit of freedom, unfortunately.
Ben Franklin described them best with his famous quote about liberty.
To provide some sort of weak analogy take the 5 boroughs of New York and imagine that in Staten Island, Bronx and Queens no one has ever gone to a school.
Granting your "weak analogy" comment, I have to point out that I don't think Mohammad, Jesus and his Apostles, Moses, Buddha ... were college graduates. It very often appears these days that so-called "higher education" is an inhibitor more than it it is an enabler.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit