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The Coming Wave of In-Dash Auto System Obsolescence

Posted by timothy on from the new-din-standard-called-for dept.

jfruh writes "Automakers are striving mightily to bring their in-dash systems into the modern age, providing integration with smartphones and other advanced features. The problem: while smartphones go in and out of vogue every few years, modern cars have lifespans of a decade or more. Add in the fact that many (though not all) manufacturers have no plans to allow software upgrades to their systems, and you might end up driving a car with a fancy in-dash computer system that's completely useless for much of the time you own it."

33 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. Like BMW's startac phone integration? by jaymz666 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Many BMWs from 2000 or so have built in Startac phones... how useless are these now?

    1. Re:Like BMW's startac phone integration? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Lets see, I have a 2001 740 BWM (Bought in 2011). The phone was (apparently) an analog based and mostly useless now(don't know, when I got my car it did not include the phone). I have the cable as part of my armrest in the center.

      Now, if I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars, I can get a bluetooth module that will hookup to my current phone and I can use the cars controls for the bluetooth phone.
      And, apparently on phones can display text messages on the dashboard display (1 line, 15 characters or so).

      So the car is upgradeable, but it ain't cheap.

    2. Re:Like BMW's startac phone integration? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was thinking the same thing! I have a 2005 BMW; there's a button on the mirror which would let me make a call if i had one of those phones or, iirc, a bluetooth module which cost $800... I think all the manufacturers should do is agree on a standard for attaching mounts to the dash, provide bluetooth to the sound system, and have usb power outlets strategically placed. Of course that's not what's going to happen.

      We already have ISO 7736. Let's just say that it is treated as more of a series of polite suggestions than as anything actually worth implementing.

    3. Re:Like BMW's startac phone integration? by RenderSeven · · Score: 5, Funny

      I got a nice BMW about the time I got engaged, so it came with a really hot chick in the passenger seat. After 20 years I'd love to upgrade that accessory but I'm locked in, even after changing cars multiple times. Uninstalling the current one is way too pricey, and honestly Im not sure I could figure out how to work the newer models.

    4. Re:Like BMW's startac phone integration? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Funny

      Should have bought the ejector seat.

  2. Sure by Smallpond · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is a completely new phenomenon with smart phones. At least I'll always have my 8-track player.

    1. Re:Sure by mekkab · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is EXACTLY why I've still got my RCA 45rpm record player in my Plymouth. You really appreciate the 'warmth' of vinyl as you're cruising down the highway...

      for those who care...

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    2. Re:Sure by d3ac0n · · Score: 3

      I have. It's easy. You can buy entire systems with an Android-based phone built right into them. You will (of course) need an account (contract or PYG) with a carrier to use the phone, but they are available aftermarket.

      More commonly, people just replace it with a Bluetooth calling enabled system that allows them to connect to their existing smartphone. So unless you are driving a 1980's era Bentley with the "Robin Masters" built-in telephone handset, you won't have a problem.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    3. Re:Sure by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My idea of a vintage car with a sound system includes a big block and dual exhausts. You can't get that with Bluetooth.

      And yes, on those cars, the accelerator is more than merely a volume control.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  3. This is already the case with in-dash GPS. by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I already know at least two people who have in-dash navigation systems, yet use their smartphone or a standalone GPS because either the automaker stopped providing map updates, or wants to charge an exhorbitant amount of money for them (as in, SEVERAL TIMES that of a stand-alone GPS or even a smart phone!)

    Someone needs to come up with a docking module on the dash, to which you can dock a standard device that can be upgraded over the years. Kind of like the old "DIN" standard for car stereos, but more flat, intended for touch screen devices. Then when your in-dash system gets outdated you can upgrade it.

    1. Re:This is already the case with in-dash GPS. by ZorinLynx · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since the introduction of security codes, car stereo theft isn't as much of a problem as it used to be.

      Without the security codes, stolen car stereos are paperweights.

    2. Re:This is already the case with in-dash GPS. by msauve · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Setting temperature to 75 degrees Celcius."

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    3. Re:This is already the case with in-dash GPS. by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Funny

      Now that's funny. But better than Kelvin.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    4. Re:This is already the case with in-dash GPS. by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I see you've met my wife.

  4. No change, in other words by OhHellWithIt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    . . . [Y]ou might end up driving a car with a fancy in-dash computer system that's completely useless for much of the time you own it.

    My first car had an AM radio, but I wanted FM, so I bought an FM converter for it. Car #3 had an AM/FM radio, but I wanted a cassette player, so I ended up buying and installing a radio with a cassette player in it. Car #4 didn't have a CD player, and I remedied that with a portable CD player and an adapter that slipped into the factory-installed cassette player. The current car has a radio with CD player and auxiliary input jack and Bluetooth, but I'm pretty sure it will be obsolete by the time I get rid of it.

    Why would onboard computers be any different?

    --
    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
  5. Wife went through this ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

    My wife's last car had an in-dash GPS. After a few years when the maps started showing their age and missing entire subdivisions, we looked into replacing it.

    Turned out to buy the DVD from GM to update the maps was on the order of $700 or so. Which, was obviously way more than it would cost to buy a Tom Tom or similar.

    I try to avoid such things because they do go obsolete far faster than the thing they're attached to. Though, the BlueTooth integration in my KIA is pretty sweet.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Wife went through this ... by eth1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      My wife's last car had an in-dash GPS. After a few years when the maps started showing their age and missing entire subdivisions, we looked into replacing it.

      Turned out to buy the DVD from GM to update the maps was on the order of $700 or so. Which, was obviously way more than it would cost to buy a Tom Tom or similar.

      I try to avoid such things because they do go obsolete far faster than the thing they're attached to. Though, the BlueTooth integration in my KIA is pretty sweet.

      Not to mention the fact that for the initial cost of most of those "navigation packages," you could buy a brand new standalone GPS every year for about THREE DECADES... :P Maybe only one decade if you're buying top-of-the-line units.

      I've never met a car salesdroid that has a good answer when I point that out.

  6. No fancy gizmos please... by sakkathotmagaa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When I recently bought a car, I specifically searched for a model that does not have any touch screen jazzy GPS-smartphone-capable stuff thrown in. Apart from the slow upgrades that are offered by the manufacturers, I find it extremely distracting. A phone call can always wait, and I prefer physical buttons on the dash to skip music tracks or control the volume. Unless you have steering wheel mounted controls (which I admit, most cars have these days), I find the prospect of taking my eyes off the road to figure out where on the screen to touch to change route/track very distracting and potentially dangerous. Voice activated commands are not yet very accent-insensitive. I speak with a marked indian accent, and I find that a couple of systems were not able to pick up commands very easily. More distractions and it just ends up making the journey more tiresome. So car makers, please spare some of us the bleeding edge technology and give us cars that we can actually enjoy driving.

    1. Re:No fancy gizmos please... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, and that is somehow less distracting than a gps when you're driving? Does not solve the underlying problem.

  7. Re:Apples to oranges by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 4, Funny

    Actually, you wanna get the 8-track to cassette adapter, then put the audio-to-cassette adapter into that slot and plug in the CD player. Then burn your MP3s to CD and your fresh El Camino is rollin' 21st century style. Best to operate the CD off batteries, not the cigarette lighter, lots of potential ground-loop issues with those older radios.

    --
    I am not a crackpot.
  8. DIN form factor mounting by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 4, Informative

    Best thing since FM radios in cars. Don't like the factory "whatever"? Pull it out and put in your own.

  9. Re:Standardized Remote Touchscreen API by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No touchscreens, please. Any UI that requires you to remove your eyes from the road is a non-starter. Pleas, let's not *add* to the already out-of-control distracted driving problem.

  10. What the hell? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://www.mirrorlink.com/

    This problem has been solved.

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  11. Rand McNally by boristdog · · Score: 4, Informative

    I upgrade my big $6.95 book of Rand McNally road maps every couple years. It's not that expensive.

    1. Re:Rand McNally by dywolf · · Score: 3

      There several alternate methods to solving this problem:
      1- Logic + map (most towns have amenities)
      2- Pre-planning (Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance)
      3- Talking to people

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  12. Command-line interface: never goes out of style by dstone · · Score: 3, Funny

    Seriously. Just give me a Bash shell. I'll alias some useful stuff to short commands. Voice dictation can reduce the safety issues with keyboard use. And when the car is out of warranty, the dealer has to add me to the wheel group for sudo.

  13. Re:Apples to oranges by Smallpond · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's a 12AU7 burned out in my radio, so I can't use it for anything right now.

  14. I worked as a contractor for GM by MpVpRb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ..and tried to tell them this

    Don't put electronics in dashboards, build interfaces and docking stations

    Concentrate on things like speakers, that must be designed to fit the space and don't change a lot

    Needless to say, I was ignored

  15. there's your GNU/Car by medcalf · · Score: 5, Funny
    I bought a GNU/Car. It took me:
    • a month to gather all the parts that were not included to the car, but were necessary to its basic operation,
    • another two months to find all the parts that those parts depend on,
    • a week to assemble the car correctly,
    • a few hours to build the custom security system in LISP so that I could open the doors, plus a day to make sure I'd configured and tested all the various access permissions needed to do each task (at first, I forgot the glove box permissions, and since that's where the starter is for some reason located ...),
    • three weeks of reading semi-literate documentation that assumes I already know everything about materials engineering, calculus and thermodynamics to figure out how to turn it on and not have it immediately wreck the engine (by the way, those four ruined engines were, cumulatively, expensive),
    • three days dealing with the guy in Finland who flamed me when I complained about ruining the second engine for not knowing how to do something as simple as machining my own camshaft,
    • oh, yeah, and a week to machine my own camshaft.

    But I've now got a completely running GNU/Car. Just one quick question: my lawyer just got back to me on the license terms. Do I really have to let my neighbor use the car whenever he wants? Because that sounds wrong.

    --
    -- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
  16. Re:no plans to allow software upgrades what autodr by w_dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They'll fix dangerous bugs, same as they do now. It's called a product recall. On cars, it usually amounts to taking your car to the dealer and waiting while they replace a part. You won't get the software update that makes lane changes smoother on next year's model, but you'll get the bug fix for the issue where the car sometimes mistakes the ditch for the middle of the road.

  17. Re:Apples to oranges by Applekid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While silly, that line of CD-Rs still uses the blue azo pigments in cyanine dyes instead of the newer phthalocyanine that every other disc produced today, including all of Verbatim's other discs. I have found the longevity and readability of these discs to be quite excellent, especially on older drives.

    Back then that chemistry was also available on DataLifePlus brand discs. Every single one I used to burn stuff on is still readable today (last checked this summer) while the Ritek discs I also burned at the time with the newer light green dyes are running about 2 good discs out of every 3 I pull. I believe older TDK discs also used the same Mitsubishi chemistry, but it's been a long time since such things mattered to me, since sneakernet with USB drives is more efficient.

    Anecdotal? Sure, but that's my tale.

    --
    More Twoson than Cupertino
  18. Re:And 2000 model Jaguar S type... by mister_playboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The late 80's had lots of GM experiments in proprietary dash layouts. The CRT touch screen system in the '87 Buck Riveria was perhaps the most (in)famous.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onDbn0AWV5M

    --
    Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
  19. Re:Ford Sync by FreshlyShornBalls · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ha! You've clearly not actually USED Sync.

    Here's a tip: the fuse that needs to be pulled in order to do a hard reset of the system every month or so requires you to have about 7 joints in your hand to get to.

    I will say this: when it's working, it's awesome. But it was developed by / in conjunction with Microsoft.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.