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A Tale of Two Companies

Rick Zeman writes "They've had the best of times, and now they're living through the worst of times. The Washington Post talks about the dissolution of both Kodak's and Polaroid's business models, what Kodak can learn from Polaroid's earlier mistakes, and the resurrection of some classic Polaroid tech by private entrepreneurs."

23 of 70 comments (clear)

  1. Or Tumblr by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can someone instagram some photos of hese old cameras and a "gold box" of film so I can see what the hell they're talking about?

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    1. Re:Or Tumblr by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

      Some photos are on the way. There's a one hour turn around time at the film lab.

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    2. Re:Or Tumblr by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      I truly appreciate the irony of a classic troll applied to a discussion about classic technology.

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  2. Poor management by graphius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Polaroid was always a bit of a niche company. They happened to be in a fairly big niche, but they were very unique in what they did. Their monopoly kept them going until the market changed.

    Kodak was killed by shortsighted managers who could not understand the implications when they invented digital photography.

    [car analogy] Both companies were buggy whip producers. Kodak invented the internal combustion engine, but never thought it would catch on.[/car analogy]

    1. Re:Poor management by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Polaroid was always a bit of a niche company. They happened to be in a fairly big niche, but they were very unique in what they did. Their monopoly kept them going until the market changed.

      Kodak was killed by shortsighted managers who could not understand the implications when they invented digital photography.

      [car analogy] Both companies were buggy whip producers. Kodak invented the internal combustion engine, but never thought it would catch on.[/car analogy]

      The 'buggy whip' analogy isn't quite fair to Kodak. The techniques required to produce their particular buggy whips involved a fair amount of chemical expertise. That spun off as Eastman Chemical in 1994. They may or may not be setting the world on fire; but nobody is preparing their funeral. This doesn't change the fact that Kodak is still totally fucked, or that they managed to almost entirely fail to capture the future that they invented; but if we had to horribly overload the buggy-whip analogy, it'd be fair to say that Kodak is still trying to sell buggy whips to the consumer transport market, while the market has moved on to BDSM fetishists and the production of diversified specialty leather goods.

    2. Re:Poor management by graphius · · Score: 2

      Yes the analogy was a bit harsh, yours is definitely more..... picturesque. but no, I don't really have a lot of hope for Kodak now. The vultures are circling.

      Polaroid is now just a name on third party junk. I do hope Kodak doesn't suffer the same fate...

    3. Re:Poor management by mbkennel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Somewhat true. Why did Fujifilm survive? Because they correctly saw themselves as an industrial coatings company, and not a photography company.
      Kodak also had great experience in *optics* (they may have made optics for some generations of surveillance satellites, very high-tech and expensive)---optics are necessary for photography but it isn't the same area exactly.

      They had great expertise in two critical industrial areas, but the managers were apparently stuck on consumer photography, and did not appreciate how inexpert they were in semiconductors and consumer electronics.

    4. Re:Poor management by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      I initially read that as "BSD fetishists" and got a bit confused. BSD isn't all that hard to use these days.

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    5. Re:Poor management by fermion · · Score: 3, Interesting
      There was little Kodak or Polaroid could do. Technology just made the mass market of what they where selling irrelevant. Expensive instant photography is meaningless with camera phones and instant [s][t]exting. Kodaks mass product, easy snaps that produce high quality are not going to compete when software can create superior images with inferior hardware and no consumables.

      This was not competing with free or irrelevance due to a a change in power source. This was a complete hange in relationship to a product. Even if cameras were still not in phones, and cost $200, Kodak would still be toast. It is not economical to buy film and pay for prints that last a life time when one can print the stuff you want on demand for an equal cost, if you want.

      The reason Kodak and Polaroid failed is the reason that firms should fail. They get too big and sales can't support the inefficiencies. The products are still in demand, ,just not at the same volumes. If we would allow and encourage such companies to fail, things might be much better.

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    6. Re:Poor management by Teun · · Score: 2

      Strange enough the first digital camera I used around 1994 was the Kodak DC-10.
      The 333,000 pixels pictures could in my view easily compete with Polaroids.
      I remember they (Kodak) made the first camera to match the resolution of a typical 35mm picture and it was an incredible 16 Mega pixel!
      Now I have a 36 MP camera (Nikon D800) using that same 35mm frame :)
      Later Kodak sold re-branded Minolta digital camera's, they probably had Kodak IP in them but the brand eventually went to Sony, Kodak lost their chance.

      Polaroid-compatible film is again manufactured in their old factory by old and new staff:
      http://www.the-impossible-project.com/?nointro=1

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    7. Re:Poor management by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Informative

      There was little Kodak or Polaroid could do.

      This is certainly true of Polaroid, but Kodak, for all intents and purposes, invented digital photography and still failed to capitalize on the technology that made their primary product obsolete.

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    8. Re:Poor management by symbolset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure the argument was that if they promoted the new technology it would "cannibalize" their traditional revenue base. There is a lesson here.

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  3. Wrong Example by samuisan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article is wrong, both companies were doomed by hopelessly incompetant managers who either failed to see the coming end of film, or else saw it but failed to act (exercise for the student to decide which is worse.)

    It didn't have to be like this, look at Fuji to see how a company could switch its main product and survive.

    Pity, so many people lost jobs because of a few retarded managers at the top of their companies.

    1. Re:Wrong Example by geoskd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pity, so many people lost jobs because of a few retarded managers at the top of their companies.

      There are two classes of people at Polaroid and Kodak who got the axe. The first are the technicians, engineers and related staff. Those people were going to lose their jobs regardless, as the products they made were no longer wanted. The other class of people at Kodak and Polaroid were the managers, supervisors and non-technical staff. Those people can get jobs elsewhere (and most of them have). Very few people lost their jobs who wouldn't have been let go when these companies transitioned to new technologies, except managers, who can hardly be said to be innocent victims.

      -=Geoskd

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  4. Incidentally... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Given how frequently(and often painfully, toward the end) companies seem to founder in the face of structural changes that they can't do much about(short of essentially re-founding as something else, just carrying over the campus and the capital), I have to wonder if there has been any work done outside of the barbaric corporate raider sector on building companies with clean exit strategies...

    After all, there isn't any reason why a company needs to struggle to perpetuate its existence forever(any more than a company would struggle to perpetuate the existence of a given product line forever). Sure, the process that companies who do fight and then die go through is pretty grim; but that is, at least in part, because they keep struggling even after the situation is hopeless, and just bleed and bleed and bleed.

    Is there a process where you just quit before you are behind, wind down neatly, rather than the corporate equivalent of spending a few years stuck full of tubes and unresponsive in the ICU?

    1. Re:Incidentally... by gopla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      After all, there isn't any reason why a company needs to struggle to perpetuate its existence forever(any more than a company would struggle to perpetuate the existence of a given product line forever).

      That would be equivalent to euthanasia for companies. But there are real reason why it is not universally accepted. For all companies that have died there are enough examples that have struggeld and come out stronger. Nokia and Apple comes to mind immediatly. They diversified and successed beyond immagination.

      The message is: don't quit too easily.

    2. Re:Incidentally... by dbc · · Score: 2

      Read anything by Clayton Christensen. He has been writing about the phenomenon and outlining solutions that work, for years. Many. Years. Kodak was an obvious slow motion train wreck to anybody that had read his books. Digital photography is the modern poster child for how a cheaper, crummier, technology eventually eats the lunch of the old guard as it improves. CC obseved the same thing happen years before with steel mini-mills.

      He has a book titled "Disrupting Class" about how modern developments (Khan Academy, et al) are up-ending education. If his predictions hold true, the current education system will go the way of Kodak within 5 to 10 years.

      But back to companies like Kodak... the short answer is that you have to be willing to kill off your own cash cows, because if you don't someone else will. That takes a very directed effort on the part of upper management, because the entire corporate system works against that.

  5. the Real Problem... by lemur3 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Part of the problem that Kodak had was less to do with the Digital Revolution and somewhat more to do with the complex formulations of their photographic emulsions.

    As I understand it some of these emulsions are so sensitive to variables that one merely couldn't take the "recipe" and scale it down to a smaller run which would work wherever a coating machine existed.. The Kodak Photo Engineers had to tweak and develop the emulsion formulations for the various films they produced to suit each vessel which they were mixed in/stored in/expelled from during production...

    With many of the engineers aging and few young people coming in to the work force having the hands on access to emulsions and coating machines to learn the very specialized techniques of the Photographic Emulsion Engineering guys it put kodak in a situation where scaling down and suiting the changing market would become more and more difficult.

    The end result seems to be they were producing far more film than they could sell, and were having to store it instead of making profit off of it... running operations that they knew were too large... and stuck in a spot where loyal customers might not accept the changes in emulsions that may come from downsizing the operation...

    Digital imaging certainly hurt.. but the extremely complex emulsions and coating really didnt help.

    The biggest loss from Kodak and as we are finding with the people trying to replicate Polaroids instant films.. is the stuff you dont learn in chemistry class, or from a masters degree in Photography.. its knowing how to troubleshoot problems with emulsions and make consistent high quality coating machines..

    While a lot of the processes in the history of the medium of photography can be done without much trouble as a DIY thing.. modern high speed emulsion films and developing papers are one of the few things that are, even with the right tools and ingredients.. likely out of the realm of possibility for the most hardcore of us. (with only a few people i know of even attempting this)

    This is not a "good riddance" type thing.. high speed modern film isnt replaced by digital..

    With the death of many of these former emulsion engineers we stand to lose a photographic process that has been with us for over 100 years.. and that sucks.

     

    1. Re:the Real Problem... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      OTOH, the technology that comes from creating high quality coatings on an industrial scale has applications far beyond photography.

      I guess it's not lucrative enough to support the entire company, but they have tried to capitalize on what they know.

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  6. And in other good news by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 3, Interesting
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  7. Film for Polaroid cameras available again by Teun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At the original factory for Polaroid media in The Netherlands some guys are again producing the 'film' you need to continue using your late model Polaroid cameras:
    http://www.the-impossible-project.com/?nointro=1

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  8. Worst business decisions Ever by SternisheFan · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I was going to submit this as a story, but this works.

    http://money.msn.com/investing/worst-business-decisions-ever

  9. Re:Not that obvious kodak was doomed by dbc · · Score: 2

    No, it WAS totally obvious, and you said the key phrase yourself: "they never toally committed" -- the handwriting was on the wall for the film business, but they just couldn't bring themselves to shift enough resources over to digital. They were always afraid of cannibalizing the film business. It was that fear that doomed them, and it was totally dead obvious to anybody with Silicon Valley management experience. They never went after consumer digital cameras in any serious way. It was like watching a dinosaur die of thirst at a rapidly drying water hole because it wouldn't cross the plain to another water hole that it already knew about.

    Also, keeping "both Fuji and Kodak doing quite well with film for much longer" is exactly the kind of thinking that got them in trouble. *You* didn't see it coming because you think like their managers. You are thinking like an old Ma Bell, days-of-the-regulated-monopoly, manager. Trying to keep the film business alive longer is what killed them. Being the first to make film pointless would have saved them, instead, they let someone else do it. When you understand that lesson well enough to fire people that think like you do now, you have the potential to snag a corner office.

    It really *was* obvious, because this scenario has played out over and over. Sili Valley is littered with the bones of companies that died that way. Read Christensen's "Innovator's Dilema". You will rethink Kodak's demise.