Slashdot Mirror


Mars Rover Finds Complex Chemicals But No Organic Compounds

techtech writes in with the results from the first soil samples tested by the Curiosity rover. "Although NASA's Curiosity rover hasn't yet confirmed the detection of organic compounds on Mars, it's already seeing that the Red Planet's soil contains complex chemicals — including signs of an intriguing compound called perchlorate. The first soil sample analysis from Curiosity's Sample Analysis at Mars lab, or SAM, was the leadoff topic today at the American Geophysical Union's fall meeting in San Francisco. The findings were eagerly awaited because of rumors that the Curiosity team was on the verge of announcing major findings — and although NASA tamped down expectations, the scientists said they were overjoyed with the first round of analysis."

25 of 137 comments (clear)

  1. NASA have nearly finished testing the new camera by Max_W · · Score: 5, Funny

    on Curiosity and are just about ready to go... http://imgur.com/VWcAU

    :o)

  2. Can't keep this up by mws1066 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    NASA can't keep up being the "boy who cried wolf." People will just stop listening if every little thing is "breakthrough" and something "earth-shattering!" My goodness.

    --
    Nothing is more dangerous than a programmer with a screwdriver.
    1. Re:Can't keep this up by GodInHell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My assumption: It's one of those "if you know what you're talking about this is BIG new" stories I think. Means a lot to people who are deeply invested in the material, everyone else just stands around and says "so what does that mean?" Of course, a presentation aimed at an audience that is supposed to /know/ what they're talking about already assumes you know what it means.

    2. Re:Can't keep this up by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Did NASA refer to this as "earth-shattering" or a "breakthrough"? Since you use quote marks, I assume you can point to the quote where they said that, and aren't just using exaggerated paraphrasing so you can then criticize your straw man.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    3. Re:Can't keep this up by codewarren · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is it NASA that is crying wolf? TFS suggests only "rumors" of "major findings" and that NASA was downplaying those expectations.

    4. Re:Can't keep this up by Squidlips · · Score: 3, Informative

      Get your facts straight before you fly off the handle. Neither NASA or JPL said anything about earth-shattering or breakthrough. Nothing. There was no official announcement of the kind. There were just a few off-the-cuff remarks by the chief scientist (Grotzinger) made to Joe Palca of NPR about MSL being a landmark missions and how the mission would re-write the history books. But then it was the press and bloggers who blew this way out of proportion.

    5. Re:Can't keep this up by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Please point out in that story where anyone who actually works for NASA used the phrases "earth-shattering," "earth-shaking," or even "breakthrough."

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    6. Re:Can't keep this up by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Informative

      The quote comes from rover lead John Grotzinger, in a recent NPR interview:

      Here are the relevant quotes from the interview:

      "We're getting data from SAM as we sit here and speak, and the data looks really interesting,"

      "The science team is busily chewing away on it as it comes down."

      "This data is gonna be one for the history books. It's looking really good."

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    7. Re:Can't keep this up by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When follow-up tests confirmed that it wasn't organic compounds, they saved face by pulling this "Oh, the press just misinterpreted what he was saying" stuff.

      Or maybe ... the press just misinterpreted what he was saying. Because that's usually the way to bet when it comes to sensationalist science reporting. But you know, if you'd rather believe the worst about NASA scientists, go ahead. They'll keep doing good, professional work regardless of what you think.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    8. Re:Can't keep this up by mws1066 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Grotzinger says they recently put a soil sample in SAM, and the analysis shows something Earth-shaking. 'This data is gonna be one for the history books. It's looking really good,' he says.""

      --
      Nothing is more dangerous than a programmer with a screwdriver.
    9. Re:Can't keep this up by Digicaf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The point the GP is making is that reporters outside of NASA blew this up, not NASA themselves. That's not semantics, that's just really bad reporting.

      As far as I've seen, NASA didn't make this out to be more than it was. In fact, I saw a couple of NASA releases stating that people shouldn't get too excited about it.

    10. Re:Can't keep this up by drerwk · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Facts mostly straight:

      NASA can't keep up being the "boy who cried wolf." People will just stop listening if every little thing is "breakthrough" and something "earth-shattering!" My goodness.

      You know that Grotzinger probably does not even work for NASA right? He is a Caltech professor, likely that Caltech pays his salary. He is not a NASA employee or spokesman.
      You really have not gotten your facts straight, but do not fret you might have an excellent career as a science reporter :-).

    11. Re:Can't keep this up by Squidlips · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the press looks bad, not NASA. When Grotz said it was gonna be one for the history books, he meant the mission as a whole not the latest SAM findings. Unfortunately, this means that Grotz or any other MSL project scientists will be very very disinclined to talk to the press, alas.

    12. Re:Can't keep this up by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, but the act of saying you have some results, but you're not telling anyone yet... eh... just release the results when you have them. And NASA guy *did* say it was going to be the one for the history books. People hear than and don't assume he means "History Of Martian Soil Chemistry, Volume 3".

    13. Re:Can't keep this up by skelly33 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's all over the fricken Internet. It was in the NPR report and it looks like the report has since been edited to remove the comment, perhaps out of embarrassment. The transcript from the same report however still includes the quote...

      "PALCA: Put a sample of Martian soil or rock or even air inside SAM and it will tell you what the sample's made of. Right now, SAM is working on a Mars soil sample, and [John] Grotzinger says the results are earth-shaking."

      From NPR Transcript

      Grotzinger is the "principal investigator for the rover mission".

    14. Re:Can't keep this up by meglon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, there is.

      This is a historic finding, which could very well repaint the landscape of Mars as we know it. That is a big deal. The problem is, we have a bunch of barely educated morons in this country who jump to the conclusion of little green men in flying saucers whenever someone looks up and sees a bird fly overhead, or who think there's ghosts everywhere because some dipshit on Ghost Hunters says "what was that!!?" every fucking episode.

      Real science suffers in the US because our citizens are being bred to be stupider than shit. NASA hasn't one anything wrong, it's just there's too few people with actually brains in this country to understand basic language, much less basic science.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    15. Re:Can't keep this up by ChronoFish · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the MarsCuriosity Twitter account - which I assume to be targeting a more "social" audience to include scientist, space-fans, back-yard astronomers, and people who may or may not know or get "soil science".

      Oct. 9: Shiny Object Update: My team continues to assess a small object on ground, likely a shred of benign plastic
      Oct 12: All Shook Up: Dusted off my sampling system this week & investigated a mysterious "FOD"
      Oct 15: Time for a third scoop... and a second look. Investigating newfound bright material on Mars
      Oct 18: Distinctly Martian: Just had my 1st taste of Red Planet regolith. Mineral analysis underway
      Nov 2: I found clues to changes in Mars' atmosphere, but no methane... yet. More observations planned
      Nov 21: What did I discover on Mars? That rumors spread fast online. My team considers this whole mission "one for the history books" .
      Nov 29: Everybody, chill. After careful analysis, there are no Martian organics in recent samples. Update Dec 3

      The whole twitter account is there to make mundane rock observation sound interesting to someone (anyone) who is not a (astro-) geologist. If "Curiosity" is excited, so should be everyone who follows. 128 characters is barely enough to convey a message, much less "tone" - but readers will inject their own tone - which is dangerous for an agency that wishes not to release any data with less than 5 9s of precession.

      -CF

  3. So no Mardi Gras beads... by hawks5999 · · Score: 3, Funny

    What a let down.

  4. ...aliens or not aliens? by stepdown · · Score: 5, Funny

    Reminds me of this recent SMBC comic.

  5. Now that we have all sobered up.... by Squidlips · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There is some good science being done and the Good Stuff will be when Curiosity reaches the clay layers at the base of Mt Sharp, so be patient. There is also the minor mystery of the chlorinated methane products...

  6. Re:NASA have nearly finished testing the new camer by jamstar7 · · Score: 4, Funny

    on Curiosity and are just about ready to go... http://imgur.com/VWcAU :o)

    That doesn't look like Jimmy Hoffa to me...

    --
    Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  7. Rocket fuel by gr8_phk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They mention that the Calcium Perchlorate may be an energy source. How about using it to manufacture rocket fuel on mars? It's similar to other oxidizers used in solid fuel rockets. Wouldn't it be strange if the fuel for a return-to-earth trip could be manufactured right there from materials lying right there on the planet surface? Or am I totally smoking something?

  8. Re:NASA have nearly finished testing the new camer by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Informative

    Perchlorate is intriguing for a number of reasons that are tangental to the compound's intrinsic character.

    First, it is a potentially biologically useful compound as an oxygen source for single cellular respiration in autochemotrophs.

    Second, if concentrations are high enough, the salt lowers the melting point of water sufficiently that martian soil could be "moist" at sufficient depths.

    Also, the compound usually only forms in nature from UV irridation of aqueous saline solutions. A high abundance of the mineral is very suggestive of a very different mars from what we see now.

    Previous rovers have detected gypsum, and perchlorates at other locations. Additional samplings of perchlorates increases the probability that the mineral is very prevelent in the crust, which greatly increases the chances of finding microbiotic life.

    The fact that perchlorate salts are about as "interesting" as O2, salt, silicon dioxide, and other inorganic substances here on earth does not mean that they are uninteresting in an environment that is radically different from our own.

  9. Re:NASA have nearly finished testing the new camer by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is a wicked oxydizer, and it does kill most terrestrial microbes almost instantly. (Its basically bleach.)

    However, the degree of lethality is deprendent on concentration of the perchlorate salt (my understanding was that it was under 1% of the sample, suggesting it was a low yeild, but omnipresent mineral), as a small qualtity would be tolerable to extremophiles, which is what you would expect in the extreme conditions on mars.

    Life on mars appears more and more to fall into a very narrow band of habitablility, like the photosynthetic soil microbes of antarctica, assuming it exists at all.

    Missions like this one give us a better understanding of martian environmental conditions, and allow us to make better guesses about what areas of mars might potentially harbor life.

  10. Martians killed of by Dry Cleaning? by RealGene · · Score: 3, Funny
    --
    Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.