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Dotcom Drags NZ Spook Agency Into Court
New submitter d18c7db writes "Internet tycoon Kim Dotcom has won another court victory, today given the right to drag the secretive GCSB into the spotlight of a courtroom. Forcing the GCSB to be tied to the court action opens it up to court ordered discovery — meaning Dotcom's lawyers can go fishing for documents as they continue to fight extradition to the U.S. to face copyright charges. But the GCSB claimed any disclosure of what [was] intercepted would prejudice New Zealand's national security interests 'as it will tend to reveal intelligence gathering and sharing methods.' Dotcom and his fellow Mega Upload accused asked Chief High Court Judge Helen Winkelmann for the right to have the GCSB become part of the proceedings, amend their statement of claim, and for additional discovery. In a judgment issued today she gave that permission."
Poor widdle government agency lost its sovereign immunity when it started working for the wrong sovereign.
This is the point where the charges get dropped.
It's unfortunate that an utter slimeball like Dotcom is the one to drag these agencies and policies out into the sunshine.
What methods would it reveal? Surly they follow the law and have nothing to hide?
If the GCSB have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear, right?
If they were using standard and allowed intelligence methods against this civilian, they have nothing to hide, and nothing to fear.
If however, they were breaking laws, then there may be other consequences too.
The defense only claims that it cannot be touched. Somehow, I think this is not a strong defense.
What we did was illegal by the laws of every country involved. And we knew this. AND did it anyway.
Now you want us to admit to breaking every law involved? NO!
We're going to fight this with every illegal or legal thing we can think of until you run out of money or give up.
Put them up aginst the wall. The lot of them. Improve the planet.
Can they just charge him with being the world's biggest arrogant douche and get it over with?
That could reveal that we illegally shared information with foreign nations!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If I told you how I came about it, you might think I stole it!
Why does a peaceful, isolated little country need an intelligence agency?
When I hear [read] the name Kim Dotcom, I thought he was Korean or something along those lines as that is the only place I know of where men can be named Kim. I guess I was wrong on that. Looking at the picture of Doctom in the article, I am reminded of Eric Cartman.
To make sure all of the intelligent people are accounted for.
To stay peaceful?
The UK isn't that much bigger (probably 5-6% larger) and you don't question us having several.
I'd say an intelligence agency of some sort was probably vital to any non-trivial country (i.e. one that you've heard of). You don't have to be invading foreign countries to be able to benefit from knowing when others are planning to do that to you.
I liked it. http://www.nhadep24h.vn
. The latest ruling is another milestone in Dotcom's bid to challenge extradition to the US on copyright infringement charges.
His lawyers have already proved that GCSB's surveillance of the mogul was illegal, and search warrants for the January raid were invalid.
Are we supposed to cheer for the judge for making a reasonable ruling, or are we supposed to cheer that the judge allowed for the review of possible criminal / illegal activities by the law enforcement officers of New Zealand? Any way you look at it, it's sad that it came to this: law enforcement in NZ breaking laws (possibly under the external request / direction of others) and using force to execute searches for evidence of copyright infringement.
66 Why does a peaceful, isolated little country need an intelligence agency? 99
Precisely because it is part of the Anglosphere, that's why. Furthermore, why hasn't Kim Dotcom been disappeared? That is ALWAYS an option, even in the Anglosphere. Is it that the great [racist] sharks don't like the water around NZ?
UK is much more crowded though; ~62.3 million citizens vs. ~4.4 million in NZ.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
New Zealand has been the location of terrorist attacks in the past.
In the '80s a terrorist group based in France called the DGSE blew up the Greenpeace vessel Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour, killing one of the crew.
NZ security personal were able to capture 2 of the culprits (alain Marfard amd Dominique Prieux , but the French Governemnt made us give them back,
If only we could find a federal judge in the court system that had any backbone to challenge the NSA's illegal wiretapping programs instead of giving them carte blanche with their immunity/state secrets privilege.
Who ya gonna call?
GhostBusters
The "national interests" reply is getting worn more than a bit thin. The proper reposte is:
"Since national security is so important to you, you ought to take especial care not to violate any laws or commit torts. Then you won't need to worry about being before courts, or can get yourselves severed from actions."
But No. The real problem is that at least some government officals believe themselves to be above the law. The same belief as held by common criminals. These officals believe that their "mission" is more important than obeying the law. Never mind that most of them are breaking some laws to enforce other laws. The irony escapes them -- must have thick heads. And please understand, obeying the law isn't tough -- there are lots of tame judges who will give out warrents. The rogues just don't want to submit, and can get away with it. Power trip.
I wonder why large numbers of office-holders aren't charged with treason as they wilfully violate their oath of office to uphold the US Constitution. But then, we live in a praetorian culture, much worse since 2001.
The lesson to be learned is to keep investigative branches separate; do not have the same body responsible for investigations into issues of national security and investigations into trivial copyright infringement.
Maybe the GCSB will say their methods are secret and can't be disclosed in open court, and the court will dismiss the charges against Dotcom, giving the government a way out. It's happened in the US a few times.
I queston it. Half the reason these agencies are needed is because if the trouble they cause, with most of the remainder being fixable by decent practices like not hiking up electrical grid controls to the internet.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I get the argument that some state secrets need to be kept to prevent aiding enemies from circumventing intelligence gathering activities. However, if that privilege is invoked, then the coutrs should simply give a default judgement as if the opposing side's claims are proven by the evidence provided. In other words, keep the secrets and be quiet and lose the case, or defend against it with the requested information - possibly provided under seal and only seen by the judge and a security-cleared lawyer for both sides.
Just like the DVD Jon bullshit it's blatantly obvious that the locals were just there to serve a warrant for an investigation run elsewhere. There's nothing to keep secret apart from embarrassment that they were working for another country, which has got to have been authorised by somebody in politics that wants to pretend otherwise. So the real secret is whose arse is being covered.
New Zealand is a sovereign nation right? (or were b4 you sold out to big media) How can France force you to give them back?
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
They've had trouble with an intelligence agency from another country blowing up a ship and killing a photographer for one thing. The story about how they caught the agents is very cool and involved using a laser in a new technique to detect fingerprints on cloth.
Unfortunately they were only jailed for a year before a deal was made where they were supposed to have been transferred to a jail in their home country, but they were released immediately instead. That episode has left NZ with some distrust of other nations intelligence services.
Considering the judge ALREADY ruled against the GCSB, I think it is safe to assume she IS smart enough to see through this.
A kiwi sheep fucker might want to correct me but isn't this a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing and the right hand now trying to get the left hand back under control?
You would be surprised how much of a country is run by underlings thinking they are doing the best thing and what their masters want and then the masters find out and go "you did WHAT!?!"
It must be said that so far AFTER the case came to light, the NZ powers that be have reacted better then expected in trying to get things in the clear. That this court case is even happening and going this way shows NZ is not as totally morally corrupt as the US. Yet.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
If those methods are so important for fighting terrorism than perhaps they shouldn't have wasted them on a commercial copyright case?
Whoever made the decision to use them here is the one that burned those methods and info and should be the one help liable; but they should be released.
To remain peaceful and isolated, duh.
DotCom rocks the boat and conservatives don't like that. Not for any reason. Most people don't. Rock the boat even to stop people from drowning and the very people who are drowning will complain the loudest about being saved. People want a quiet life. They REALLY don't like someone who makes them think or do anything. Not even if they agree. Oh you might THINK you are left or right wing but as soon as someone starts hinting you actually do something about it, you start to resent that person. It happens to all of us to a greater or lesser degree. We LOVE pragmatist and hate idealist where pragmatist stands for: what you are doing goes against everything you believe but hey, it is the easy way out so as long as you don't feel 100% happy about doing wrong, it is okay to do wrong. An idealist is an extremist who dares to suggest that if you believe something to be wrong maybe you should consider doing just the tiniest bit less of it. RADICAL EXTREMISTS!
Julian Assange, Kim DotCom, Richard Stallman, they are all hated because they don't just say on accasion we do wrong but actually expect us to change, claim that if we keep doing X there are consequences! Linus Torvald is loved because he has no opinion and just lets us do what ever we were doing.
We love environmentalists just as long as we don't have to anything about, love opensource just as long as we can keep paying companies to lock us into walled gardens and Kim DotCom reminds us to much that filesharing is not just about copying a file from your friend but a huge economic battle between two ways we can run our economy in the future. Thinking about the effects of this battle going either way would do us good but thinking hurts and the Simpsons are on, a show that for a quarter of a century hasn't changed ANYTHING. We like that. It is safe.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You would be surprised how much of a country is run by underlings thinking they are doing the best thing and what their masters want and then the masters find out and go "you did WHAT!?!"
True, but the responsibility goes with the delegation of authority. Just like when people delegate authority to their drunk selves and then wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and say, "you did WHAT!?!" - they're still responsible.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
A kiwi sheep fucker might want to correct me [...]
Given your user name, I get this disturbing feeling your desire to talk to sheep fuckers stretches beyond a simple challenge to correct your knowledge of legal issues regarding the interactions betwixt the judicial system and national law enforcement agencies in New Zealand.
DGSE is France's external intelligence agency not a terrorist group. It is the equivalent of the US CIA, UK SIS (MI6) and NZSIS. However, I don't those examples spend their time blowing up Greenpeace ships.
You're pretty silly. Slashdot may have hardons for assange and stall man are 2 of the biggest hypocrites on the planet. Dot com is nothing more than a fraudster and a thief using ignorant people like you to fanboy for him.
You can't name one redeeming quality about him that isn't entirely self serving and will no longer be his concern the instant it no longer benefits him directly.
He isn't fighting for your rights, he's trying to keep the shit he stole and hide behind some righteous pretend cause.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
I think of blowing up green peace related stuff as counter-terrorism work myself. They aren't exactly law abiding citizens or even ones you'd actually want to be around.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Well said!
...I'm tired of various entities somehow being above the law and able to just say no whenever they want. The things they do are on the taxpayer dime. They are arms of the government, which is a servant of the people. In no way are they nor should they ever be above the law, period.
I'd say the same for the DGSE, but I'm sure I'd get in trouble for blowing up their stuff.
I think of blowing up green peace related stuff as counter-terrorism work myself. They aren't exactly law abiding citizens or even ones you'd actually want to be around.
Fuck you, Greenpeace are a legitimate non-violent protest group. Funny how everyone here's in favour of free speech if it's to allow neo Nazis and homophobes to chant their filth in public, but as soon as someone makes a genuine political protest against the Establishment, it's "fuck those hippies". See Occupy Wall Street.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Fact is, over here in germany the local hacker organizations see this awfully 'cool' Kim a little different. Want a little history about him? Guess that would be better for you. Kim (or by his old handle Kimble) is known since the ages of diskette game sharing. He would be remebered as the guy SELLING the shit in school and clubs not sharing it for free. When the internet came along in its early pre-forms (BTX for germany) Kimble had a service running, that enabled you as a user to access tons of pirated crap for money sped monthly. When the service was found he got his ass out of the fire by selling the information about his users, THOSE WHO ACTUALLY PAID HIM FOR IT!!!!
This scheme goes on trough the days of Usenet in germany. I would not be surprized if he'd sell out his users again. He just works that way, once a judges whore always a judges whore. There is some serious stuff in the history of kim dotshit. I'm happy to know about it as a member of the Chaos Computer Club. This should be the chance for you to stop idolizing an corporate idiot out of being uninformed.
Start looking at the real heroes working for the Piratebay.