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WW2 Pigeon Code Decrypted By Canadian?

Posted by timothy on from the pinned-down-send-fries-and-gravy dept.

Albanach writes "At the start of November Slashdot reported the discovery of a code, thought to be from the Second World War, found attached to the leg of a pigeon skeleton located in an English chimney. Now a Canadian by the name of Gord Young claims to have deciphered the message in less than 20 minutes. He believes that the message is comprised mostly of acronyms."

56 of 158 comments (clear)

  1. No point in... by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...squabbling about this.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:No point in... by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Funny

      flamebait.... squab... lol

      First time since I joined I thought a mod was funny. :)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    2. Re:No point in... by S.O.B. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Take off, eh?

      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
    3. Re:No point in... by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

      Perch? You're trying to buy me off with fish?

      (mmm, fish...)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  2. Also, by Mitreya · · Score: 3, Funny

    I have inherited a number of books and each one of them can be used to decode the message!

  3. Makes some sense by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you are in enemy territory sending messages back to your headquarters you want to be able to encode quickly and move fast to avoid capture. If the pidgeon is caught it is going to give away your position (somewhat) regardless of whether its message is decrypted so the strength of the crypto may not be so important to you.

    --
    http://michaelsmith.id.au
    1. Re:Makes some sense by rioki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They do that even today. The level of encryption is determined by the value of the Information. The value of the information is determined by how long the information is useful. For example positions and orders may be not be useful after a day so no need to use encryption that takes longer to break then a day.

      Remember this is WW2 and encryption was really difficult. Either you could compute the cypher by hand and you had a high chance of error or you carried a heavy machine around that did the encryption. If you where a scout deep in enemy territory, having a bulky encryption machine is not very helpful.

  4. Not bad... by broginator · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...for just winging it.

    --
    s/[stupid comments]/[intelligent discourse]/gi
  5. Well, duh by WegianWarrior · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Gord Young, from Peterborough, in Ontario, says it took him 17 minutes to decypher the message after realising a code book he inherited was the key.

    Not hard to "crack" a code if you have access to the relevant code book - which a) GCHQ says they don't have, and b) can hardly be called cracking the code. The possible point of failure is - as I'm sure I'm not the only one to spot - if Mr Young has the wrong codebook; codes got shifted and shuffled a lot, and the wrong code book might give a plausible plain text that is never the less incorrect.

    Gonna be fun to see what more comes of this.

    --
    Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
    1. Re:Well, duh by Neil_Brown · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not hard to "crack" a code if you have access to the relevant code book

      It was not a "code book" in any traditional sense of the term, at least in a crypto context — the message, according to this solution, was simply heavily-abbreviated plaintext.

      It seems that "txtspk" actually originated from pigeon messaging :)

    2. Re:Well, duh by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep, "it's a bunch of acronyms", i.e. a bunch of random letters, is suspicious. Unless they line up with known shorthand, it's probably not actually decrrypted.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re:Well, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This appears to be a rare case of the slashdot title and summary being more accurate than the original article. Yes, it was decrypted, not cracked.

    4. Re:Well, duh by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      Papa bear to mama bear. The poutine is getting cold. Over.

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      Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
    5. Re:Well, duh by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      That is precisely what a code book is. A "code" is a system of substituting letters or words for other letters or words. The one he's proposed is fairly simple but it's still a code.

    6. Re:Well, duh by ntropia · · Score: 2

      Not hard to "crack" a code if you have access to the relevant code book

      Basically:
      IDKFA
      IDDQD

    7. Re:Well, duh by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 2

      "In the spy cryptography business, mum's the word."

      It's amazing we were able to find out about rot-13.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    8. Re:Well, duh by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Funny

      It seems that "txtspk" actually originated from pigeon messaging :)

      I believe it's called pidgin messaging. *ducks*

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:Well, duh by SomePgmr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I suppose so, but only as much as "wtf", "lol", and "brb" could be considered encrypted communications.

      I think it's pretty neat that the history buff figured out what it was, complete with historical context of who sent it, from where, what he was doing, etc. That's what makes that stuff interesting.

    10. Re:Well, duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      No ducks. Pigeons.

    11. Re:Well, duh by rioki · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That is the cryptographers falsie, assuming that a illegible text is encrypted and not purely encoded. What the guy did was really ingenious, through not mathematically changing, so what?

      It is like I get a blob of data and try to run it through GPG with all passwords known to me and then declaring is "uncrackable" and you pointing out that the first 4 bytes spell JPEG and I should just rename the file to .jpg. Sure you did not "crack" the file, but you are the one who looked at the issue with a wider scope and solved the problem...

      Same here.

    12. Re:Well, duh by Patch86 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I disagree. According to Mr Young, it was not encrypted in the first place- it's a plain-text message composed entirely of acronyms. If it isn't encrypted, you can't decrypt it.

      Heavily abstracted plain-text CAN be a code, however; and you "crack" a code. Or "decode" a code would probably be more accurate.

    13. Re:Well, duh by dywolf · · Score: 2

      reminds me of people who get so into crypto that all they see is the math, to where the math is all that matters, and lose sight of its ultimate purpose: keeping something hidden from someone else.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  6. It *would* be 'Gord' by DarrenBaker · · Score: 2

    Canada's singularity will be when all of us are named Gord. I figure we're about five years away.

  7. All I have to say is... by nuckfuts · · Score: 4, Funny

    atyeu ushtr tasga poend
    stsgd yyenb shjdm plkag

    1. Re:All I have to say is... by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I really don't think they were trying to tell them to drink their Ovaltine.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:All I have to say is... by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 2

      I tried rot13 and i'm all out of ideas

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
  8. Too generic by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't believe this is a correct "interpretation" of the message, as it is too generic. Nothing contained in the message is of any use whatsoever. "Hit Jerry’s right or reserve battery here", "Troops, panzers, batteries, engineers, here", "Counter measures against panzers not working", "Go over field notes", "Found headquarters infantry right here"

    What good is any of that? Where is "here"? There would have to be precise coordinates or grid numbers to indicate exactly what is where.

    The other question is where would the pigeon be delivering this message to? All the way back to some headquarters in Britain is where. In that case the context of the message is even less useful, especially considering there would be a several hour delay before the message could be delivered all the way from France to Britain.

    More information on these sites, includes the various "decoded" phrases.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12/16/world-war-2-pigeon-code-cracked_n_2311364.html
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248818/Hit-Jerrys-panzers--code-dead-wartime-pigeon-cracked.html

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    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Too generic by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe "here" is known to the recipient, but the sender doesn't want to include it in the message. He was sent to a location and is reporting on his findings.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:Too generic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Furthermore, half the text isn't "decrypted" yet, the "decryption" is inconsistent in places and acronym-based crypts don't tend to yield a neat letter grid like this.
      What makes matters worse is that not only is the proposed text not useful at all, but it's complete gibberish. There is no trace of a narrative there; it reminds me very much of the texts that ghost hunters produce after listening to the noise of detuned FM radios.
      A more realistic text would be: Found Panzer Group West HQ in château Le Bourg at La Caine. Commander, X infantry, Y tanks. &c. &c.
      My best bet is that given that the proposed acronym solution yields gibberish and that the letters form a neat grid, that this was either a one-time pad or a code-book based code. If a OTP message, it must have been sent very late in the war, but on the other hand OTP messages from the time do look exactly like this. Which is a downer because without knowing how to identify the key we'll never know what it says since OTP security is absolute (if a key at least as long as the message is used).

    3. Re:Too generic by interval1066 · · Score: 2

      It may have been known to which unit the pigeon was assigned, yeah? So perhaps the recipient knew where "here" was?

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
  9. I found the codebook online by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 4, Funny

    It makes for an interesting read.

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  10. The Alleged Decoded Message by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The alleged decoded message:

            AOAKN - Artillery Observer At "K" Sector, Normandy
            HVPKD - Have Panzers Know Directions
            FNFJW - Final Note [confirming] Found Jerry's Whereabouts
            DJHFP - Determined Jerry's Headquarters Front Posts
            CMPNW - Counter Measures [against] Panzers Not Working
            PABLIZ - Panzer Attack - Blitz
            KLDTS - Know [where] Local Dispatch Station
            27 / 1526 / 6 - June 27th, 1526 hours

    1. Re:The Alleged Decoded Message by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

      I sometimes get email at work resembling:

      "Please fix the JKUR web-site because the Chief of LKMSF is coming during the EYHFKD conference to inspect the MSFLSA before the JOTMS sees it. Thus, it has priority IBRKM! I mean it, too."

      Maybe I should hire this Canadian dude.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:The Alleged Decoded Message by interval1066 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This message, if accurate, should be easily verifiable. This part of the message is particularly telling; "Counter Measures [against] Panzers Not Working". It should be a small matter to look at some archives for D-Day's "K" sector at 3:26 on the 27th of June '44 and see if any other dispatches mention any particular counter measures against the German armor in the area failed.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    3. Re:The Alleged Decoded Message by hpa · · Score: 2

      It seems a bit odd that the groups would be exactly five characters long *except* PABLIZ (which looks more like PABUZ to me.) At the same time, the repetition of the group AOAKN would be consistent with the message *not* being encrypted with a one-time pad.

    4. Re:The Alleged Decoded Message by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Searched the net and found this http://www.dday-overlord.com/eng/27_june_1944.htm

      "The Epsom operation continues in the West of Caen, and the 49th British Infantry division, after hard fightings, manages to liberate the village of Raurey. The 15th Scottish Infantry division, after having made safe the village of Cheux, wishes to continue its fulgurating progression and moves towards the bridges on the Odon river, major objectives of the Operation Epsom. But it is slowed down by the defenders of Panzer Lehr who refuse to lose more ground. The Allied losses are very important."

      Mentions a Panzer Lehr who are holding on. Could be efforts to displace this Panzer unit are generating high Allied casualties. Need somebody with more detail about the battle on this day.

    5. Re:The Alleged Decoded Message by kune · · Score: 2
      This reading of the message is unlikely to be correct. There are following reasons:
      • The message about the panzers is useless without knowing the actual direction the panzers drive to. The same is true for Jerry's whereabouts.
      • It is highly unlikely that the codebook used would use the first letters of the messages. Codes were not always strong, but this would border on pure incompetence.
      • If the codes are actually consisting of the first letters of message words, one would expect the letter frequencies of the message to be comparable to the English language. But this is not the case. There are too many Xs, Qs and Js.
      • The actual codebook using the acronyms have not been cited, referenced or a picture provided.
      • Five-letter groups are standard for the time. There is no reason to believe that there is a single six-letter PABLIZ group in the message. In the picture published by GCHQ the group is clearly PABUZ and not PABLIZ.
      • AOAKN is repeated at the front and at the end of the message. It is more likely that this is an indicator group and doesn't have any meaning.

      At this point in time there is not much one can say for sure about the message: The message encryption requires a substitution because the letter frequency is significantly different form English. It is not a pure transposition. A codebook is possible, but I wouldn't exclude substitution ciphers right now. AOAKN is very likely a indicator group.

    6. Re:The Alleged Decoded Message by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 2

      "Counter Measures [against] Panzers Not Working".

      This is probably a reference to the PIET anti-tank weapon. It was widely regarded as a piece of shit. Complaints to HQ about it would not be unique.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIAT

  11. Backronyms by Admiral+Burrito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know about WWI/WWII acronyms but it seems unlikely that they were all exactly five letters long and had letter frequency like this (look at all those Qs, Xs, and Zs). I do know that ciphertext is usually written in groups of five letters to provide spacing without giving clues about the spacing of the plaintext. Also, there is a bit of stuff in the middle of the page below the ciphertext (cropped out of most photos), which if I remember right was used for metadata about what code was used.

    This sounds like a case of someone looking at random stuff and trying a bit too hard to make sense of it.

    1. Re:Backronyms by pla · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't know about WWI/WWII acronyms but it seems unlikely that they were all exactly five letters long and had letter frequency like this

      Regardless of either the plaintext or the encoding algorithm (though some specifically require this), splitting things into pentagrams (as in, 5-gram, not the occult symbol) pretty much ruled the crypto world for all of the modern era up to the computer age. It hides the original sentence structure (which can, in some cases, give away almost as much as an actual decryption), and works out conveniently for transcribing (that whole "seven short term memory slots" thing - If you've ever wondered why Microsoft keys use groups of five, now you know).

    2. Re:Backronyms by NJRoadfan · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you've ever wondered why Microsoft keys use groups of five, now you know).

      That would explain why the coded message seems to work as a Windows XP key!

    3. Re:Backronyms by khakipuce · · Score: 2

      In morse code there are a number of 3 letter "Q" codes for common phrases that operators use (e.g. QSL - acknowledge receipt). Q is presumably used because if it is not followed by a U in English then it must be a code and not a word. Equally X and Z are fairly uncommon letters and so may be used more commonly in abbreviations (TX/RX transmit/receive).

      By focring everything to 5 letter groups means that there is some error checking in the message if the sriting is small, closely grouos, gets wet, etc. you know if letters or spaces are missing. So it is possible that this abbreviation idea is valid.

      --
      Art is the mathematics of emotion
  12. Re:These guys are killing me. by tysonedwards · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Things to do: Stop milk, pay papers, invade Czechoslovakia!"

    --
    Thirty four characters live here.
  13. Slashdot: 2517 by CanEHdian · · Score: 4, Funny

    On this date in the year 2517, slashdotters are trying to decode the following message (believe to be related to a covert intelligence op codename 'Twitter'): STOP #SOPA #PIPA #HR1981 #NDAA #CISPA #MPAA #RIAA #ACTA #TPPA

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    1. Re:Slashdot: 2517 by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On this date in the year 2517, slashdotters

      You don't honestly believe this site will still be around in another 505 years, do you? Hell I'd be surprised if it was still around in 2015, considering how rapidly it is losing relevance.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    2. Re:Slashdot: 2517 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I have a simple solution and have written it in the margin.

  14. Not impossible to confirm... by shaitand · · Score: 4, Interesting

    His decoding of the data gives specific information about german troops present on a specific day and time in history at a particular location. At least some of it should be verifiable.

    In 17 minutes he certainly wouldn't have time to find a set of conditions that matched the acronyms he was claiming.

    1. Re:Not impossible to confirm... by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

      In 17 minutes he certainly wouldn't have time to find a set of conditions that matched the acronyms he was claiming.

      What about in the couple of months or so that this has been public knowledge?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:Not impossible to confirm... by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

      Re-read it. It doesn't actually say much you can verify without a lot more information.

      For example "Jerry's right battery central headquarters here," is useless unless you know precisely where 'here' is. Apparently it's a magical place that not only contains a Nazi Artillery HQ, it also contains "Troops, panzers, batteries, engineers," an Engineer's HQ, Nazi HQ Front posts, and "extra guns." The guns seem to be British. A lot of the rest is just saying the unit sending the pigeon knows something.

      Much of it doesn't make sense. In 1944 the Germans weren't blitzing in Normandy. "Hit Jerry's Right or Reserve Battery Here" is an incomplete thought. Did the unit sending the pigeon Hit the Germans already? Are they demanding someone else hit the German right because they're all about to die? Are they recommending somebody else hit the German right? Given that Artillery is kept to the rear, and reserves are (by definition) in a central position, how did a "Reserve battery" end up in a position where it could be hit by a unit that can also hit the German right?

      Heck the list of things the Arty Observation Unit knows don't make much sense. Artillery Observers should be telling his Battery where this Electrical Engineers HQ is, with exact grid locations, so it can be killed. But the note just says they found the damn thing.

  15. Re:It's a decoy by mrbester · · Score: 2

    Maybe it's an encoded dating ad reading WEM WLTM IW SRD BBW GSOH NSP NSA

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  16. Re:Hilarious description by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't fret. In the movie version it'll be cracked by an American.

  17. Dubious, right? by nickpelling2 · · Score: 2

    Dubious, right? If nobody knows, mandating outside references exudes oddness. Variable acronyms lose time in nervy efforts! :-) In other words, the initial-based decryption as claimed looks like hopeful nonsense rather than a proper decryption as such. More here:- http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2012/12/16/dead-ww2-pigeon-cipher-cracked-with-ww1-codebook-says-the-mail-errr-really

  18. Re:Hilarious description by lennier · · Score: 2

    I love the title, "by a Canadian."

    Is it worth mentioning here that a Canadian pretty much single-handedly created the entire WW2 US-British intelligence establishment?

    Nope, probably not.

    --
    You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  19. Bullshit by OneAhead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I call bullshit on this whole story. The letter frequencies are nicely consistent with a random OTP and woefully inconsistent with shorthand (which Mr. Young claims it is). 6 Q's, 4 X's and 4 Z's as opposed to 5 T's and 4 E's? Gee, there must have been a lot of Queens, Xylophones and Zebra's involved in that war! This alone is sufficient to sink the whole claim. And then there's the little problem that the story is shock full of holes:
    - Mr Young claims they're using WWI-era codes. What makes him think this would be tolerated, in a war in which both sides were heavily reliant on encryption and codebreaking?
    - A WWII artillery observer using carrier pigeons? Seriously??? We're talking about a very mobile war, with widely available radio equipment, and during which radar, jet engines, ballistic and guided missiles, and the atom bomb were invented. By the time the pigeon found home, the target could have moved 100miles. Yes, carrier pigeons were still used, but mainly in a backup capacity, and most certainly not for artillery observation missions.
    - Why would the official codes use "panzers" and "jerries" as opposed to "tanks" and "germans/enemy"? Also, I'm not sure the word "blitz" was colloquial in allied countries before the end of the war. And it's used in a wrong context.
    - "Counter Measures [against] Panzers Not Working?" There's so much wrong with that sentence I wouldn't know where to start. Not to mention all the other sentences he "decrypted". The guy has a lot of fantasy, I give him that.

  20. ABC's new deal with XYZ... by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...Gord Young claims to have deciphered the message in less than 20 minutes. He believes that the message is comprised mostly of acronyms.

    Maybe they got the age of the message wrong. This sounds like a modern corporate press release.

  21. Pidgin english by flyingfsck · · Score: 2

    Well, it is clearly Pidgin English.

    --
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