Slashdot Mirror


Defending the First Sale Doctrine

The Electronic Frontier Foundation recaps two court cases pending in the U.S. which will decide whether you're allowed to re-sell the things you purchase. The first case deals with items bought in other countries for resale in the U.S., such as textbooks. An unfavorable decision there would mean "anything that is made in a foreign country and contains copies of copyrighted material – from the textbooks at issue in the Kirtsaeng case to shampoo bottles with copyrighted labels – could be blocked from resale, lending, or gifting without the permission of the copyright owner. That would create a nightmare for consumers and businesses, upending used goods markets and undermining what it really means to 'buy' and 'own' physical goods. The ruling also creates a perverse incentive for U.S. businesses to move their manufacturing operations abroad. It is difficult for us to imagine this is the outcome Congress intended." The second case is about whether music purchased on services like iTunes can be resold to other people. "Not only does big content deny that first sale doctrine applies to digital goods, but they are also trying to undermine the first sale rights we do have by forcing users to license items they would rather buy. The copyright industry wants you to "license" all your music, your movies, your games — and lose your rights to sell them or modify them as you see fit."

22 of 338 comments (clear)

  1. So copyright is not just who can copy? by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is something that gets to the heart of what copyright is being turned into.

    Initially, copyright is what the name says it is -- the [exclusive] right to make copies for distribution.

    But as we have seen with things like "region coding" and the like, we are seeing attempts at controlling not just who can legally make copies, but who can legally have access to it. Information for one region cannot be legal in another region. In some circles, we call this censorship. In others, we call these trade barriers.

    Big media:

    Go ahead and do your worst. Branding like "DRM Free" and "Independent" have become the new "Organic" and industry labels have become the new "Toxic." Your disrespect of your customers/consumers is increasingly more recognized. Artists all over the world, using home computers and even iPads are creating content which is fun and entertaining. Small projects are becoming bigger projects and they don't involve you. So please. Enlighten the rest of the world by restricting them from having free access to your stuff and the new Organic entertainment out there will replace you.

    1. Re:So copyright is not just who can copy? by demonlapin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What you say is true to a degree. Electronic music in particular has become so incredibly inexpensive to make that almost anyone who has a desire to make it can easily afford to do so. However, there is a place for big art too, and nobody is going to make The Lord of the Rings or Star Wars in their basement.

    2. Re:So copyright is not just who can copy? by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is no reason why actors need millions of dollars for their tradeskills. Perhaps the market just doesn't support that anymore.

    3. Re:So copyright is not just who can copy? by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

      nobody is going to make The Lord of the Rings or Star Wars in their basement.

      15 years ago my band laughed at me when I suggested we record an album by renting a single, very expensive, microphone, and then recording with my computer and layering each track individually saving us nearly 10k. Now, any decent band has their own recording studio that pretty much revolves around a single PC. The recording industry exists at this point for the sole purpose of promotion and that will be gone soon as well. 15 years ago recording a studio quality album in your basement was laughable, and now it's how things are done. The same will happen with video, and as much as the movie industry will kick and scream... they will die. This is the free market, old, inefficient methods of productions, with all it's corporate leaches and middlemen always get traded for more direct methods of production. Eventually the people with the ideas can produce their product directly, and no longer need help. There is no such thing as "Big art", music producers were nothing more than financiers, loaning musicians money with horrendous terms. The same goes for movies and eventually it will be so cheap to produce a movie that the anal rape that movie producers have to go through to get their movie made will be a thing of the past.

    4. Re:So copyright is not just who can copy? by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Initially, copyright is what the name says it is -- the [exclusive] right to make copies for distribution.

      That died before the Constitution was even written, so it's unrelated to the current legal issues. Copyright concerns "distribution". Though if you look at the Constitution, the current laws aren't even close to following it. "To promote the useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings."[edited to remove the patent-specific wording]

      The times indefinitely extended for a limited time is, in practice, not a limited time. And one part I've never seen tested in court, and I think invalidates all current law is that Congress may only grant copyright to the author, and to nobody else. The Constitution, as written, does not recognize sale of copyrights, much like copyright in France and some other places where "author's right" is separate from "copyright"

    5. Re:So copyright is not just who can copy? by Anachragnome · · Score: 5, Funny

      " However, there is a place for big art too, and nobody is going to make The Lord of the Rings or Star Wars in their basement."

      And for good reason--as a kid, I wasted an entire summer making The Lord of the Rings in my basement, only to realize that I couldn't fit it up the damned stairs. As a result of this, my first episode of Star Wars (Star Wars: Return of the King) will have a bit of a fantasy element to it.

    6. Re:So copyright is not just who can copy? by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know why? Because time is money. An experienced recording engineer can get you from mic to mixed album in around a week.

      First, don't take this the wrong way - I know a few sound engineers, and know what they can do that your average home studio will never manage to pull off. That said...

      You phrased it absolutely the right way - But until they make it big, your indie band pays their rent by stocking Wallyworld shelves at night for minimum wage. And as the flip-side of "time is money", if you make shit for wages, you can put an awfully lot of time into a project before you break even money-wise.

      As a kid bagging groceries, I changed the oil in my car. Today, you couldn't pay me to do that crap.

  2. Tags sum it up by KRL · · Score: 5, Funny

    I read the tags: eff yro copyright as: Fuck your copyright.

  3. This is... by jamstar7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... the logical conclusion to the perpetual copyright dilema. You no longer 'own' anything, not even your own genome. You merely 'license' it for a time, with the license revokable at any time by the 'true copyright holder'.

    And they wonder why there are Pirate Partys in most of the 'free world' these days. Perpetual copyright is evil, it locks away ideas that could have been used to make future ideas as an amalgam of current ideas.

    --
    Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    1. Re:This is... by TWX · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's part why I like buying physical media. I get looked at as quaint, but my CD collection can't really have its license revoked and I don't lose everything if a hard disk crashes. Same reason I have a lot of DVDs, though the more active nature of Blu-ray does have me concerned. All of these issues with subscription services just reinforce the need for my own media.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:This is... by LordLucless · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Meh, my collection of DRM-free (either self-ripped or torrented) can't have it's license revoked, and it'd take 3 harddrive failures for me to lose it all. Plus, if I did through some catastrophe (say, a housefire, which would also destroy your physical collection), re-torrenting is trivial.

      DRM is only a problem if you're willing to play their game.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  4. Get real! by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is difficult for us to imagine this is the outcome Congress intended.

    Congress intends to deliver whatever the hell their biggest campaign contributors want them to do. This is why we already have perpetual copyright in effect.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:Get real! by Alomex · · Score: 5, Interesting

      you are a complete idiot. He got as much of his funds from 1%ers as Romney did.

      Luckily this is something one can look up. It is not an opinion but a matter of facts. So let's have a look at them:

      57% of Obama donations were under $200

      24% of Romney donations were under $200

      11% of Obama donations were for the max $2500

      39% of Romney donations were for the max $2500

      The four biggest Obama Super PAC donors combined gave less money than the top (or second) Romney Super PAC donor alone.

      Donor 58 by highest amount for Obama gave as much money as the 217 highest donor for Romney. Yeap, Romney had approx. four times as many 1%ers giving money to this campaign.

      So who's the idiot now?

      p.s. Not that this data was needed. Your signature gives it away. Only a simpleton cannot see through the fallacies of Atlas Shrugged,

  5. Inheritance by Phrogman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This also bears on inheritance. Someone with a music collection dies and their heirs cannot inherit that music collection because when Big Media gets ahold of the laws like this, their heirs have no legal right to the media

    --
    "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
    1. Re:Inheritance by immaterial · · Score: 5, Informative

      Congratulations on getting a +5 informative moderation on your post for referring to UK tabloid bullshit that was debunked the very same day by Willis' wife on Twitter.

  6. Borland once had it right, treat sw as a book by ZorroXXX · · Score: 5, Informative
    Back in the days, Borland was a refreshingly sound and sensible manufacturer, trusting its customers (as opposed to others' love for dongles or code wheels or whatnot). If you are not familiar with Borlands's No-Nonsense License Statement, by all means read the full story.

    This software is protected by both United States copyright law and international copyright treaty provisions. Therefore, you must treat this software just like a book, except that you may copy it onto a computer to be used and you may make archival copies of the software for the sole purpose of backing-up our software and protecting your investment from loss.

    ...

    --
    When you are sure of something, you probably are wrong (search for "Unskilled and Unaware of It").
  7. Digital by RazorSharp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When it comes to reselling digital goods, I think that's a whole clusterfuck our legal system doesn't properly account for. How can the court rule one way or the other when there are no laws to interpret? And even if there is some law that applies, is it possible for the court the overrule it on the basis of absurdity?

    For instance, if I managed to get a law passed through congress that stated that people must respirate using CO2 rather than O2, does a court have the power to void the law regardless of whether its constitutional or not?

    The questions may seem rather dumb, but it seems to me that the nature of digital is so far removed from our normal interpretation of property that it cannot be treated as such. The main difference being that if I resell a guitar of mine, for instance, I no longer have that guitar. With software or digital media, I can just make a copy. If I can't make a copy (well, if it's difficult to make a copy) that's just because the software is designed that way. But the problem with designing software so that it cannot be copied is that it's a futile effort -- it goes against the nature of what software is. All that's needed is electricity and a storage device and you can make as many duplicates as you want. I seriously doubt it's possible to make foolproof DRM -- DRM reminds me of a dog chasing it's tail.

    When it comes to the first case I think it's obvious which way the court will rule. There's no way a copyright invalidates the resale of an item. That's not what copyrights were designed to do -- they're purpose is in the name, to grant exclusive rights over copying (and selling) material. When it comes to the second case I think a false dichotomy is being presented. While I do find it questionable whether the first-sale doctrine applies to digital content, but I don't like the idea of 'licensing' something that exists on my HDD (even though, technically, it's all licensed). If it exists on my HDD or SSD it seems that I should be able to do what I want with it aside from make copies to resell (however, I see it solely as a copyright issue, fuck software patents).

    I dunno, I guess all I'm saying is that this shit's way too complicated. It's one of many cracks that's forming in capitalism. I'm sure in John Locke's day the idea that property is an innate right sounded good (especially to those with property). But have we extended ownership rights too far? Do I really have the right to own an idea? Sure, but once I publicly express that idea, perhaps it now belongs to the public.

    One of the most ironic parts of Atlas Shrugged is when the government abolishes patents and copyrights. Henry Rearden is pissed. I thought it was so funny that throughout the entire book the main characters are bitching and moaning about the government being all over their backs, but when the government actually grants more freedom to society, when the government decides to stop using the threat of violence to protect the coffers of the wealthiest in society, only then do they want the government to wield and assert its power. How can one advocate a philosophy that demands the public be given the least amount of restrictions on their freedom as possible, and at the same time insist that the government is duty-bound to enforce patents and copyrights?

    If you really get down and examine what property is, both in a concrete and abstract sense, it exposes itself to be the big gaping logical hole in capitalism. In a concrete sense one's property is the things they have in their possession -- that includes the music and software on your HDD. In an abstract sense, property is what the government grants one a legal claim over and is willing to enforce that claim. Basically, the law doesn't reflect reality, it reflects an abstraction that conflicts with reality. We try to make reality adhere to the abstraction but that's not always possible. Because, in reality, one can only have total ownership over an idea by not expressing it. Once it's been expressed -- verbally, in print, or digitally -- it belongs to anyone who remembers it.

    Probably none of this makes sense. I blame eggnog.

    --
    "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
  8. Re:Censored: "secondary market" by pepty · · Score: 5, Informative

    Could we do to copyright what companies do to avoid paying real estate tax in California? In CA, properties aren't reassessed for tax purposes unless they are sold. So companies don't sell real estate, they sell a shell company that technically owns the property. The property never actually changes ownership, so the taxes remain based on its valuation from 1982 or whatever. So we just need a free way to set up a corporation. Have your corporation buy an mp3 or a movie. When you're done with it, sell the corporation for $3. Problem solved.

  9. This is already the law in California by DrJimbo · · Score: 5, Informative

    In Omega v. Costco it was already decided that there is no first sale doctrine for goods manufactured outside of the USA. The case went to the Supreme Court two years ago but the court was split 4-4 (Kagan recused herself) so the lower (9th District) Court decision stood.

    There already no first sale doctrine for foreign goods in California and the rest of the 9th District.

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
  10. As a Seussist I've been warning of this for ages. by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What is a gift but a $0.00 sale? Posted on December 25th? Clearly, copyright law is merely the newest means for the Grinch to steal Christmas.

    Would you like a new restriction?
    I would fight it with conviction.

    Would you comply just to obey?
    I would revolt and say, "no way!"

    Would you resale a copyrighted box?
    I'd say, "It's blighted with a pox!"

    Would you ignore wrapper licensing?
    Can blind men be found infringing?!

    Would you strip off protected bits?
    I'd rather deal in counterfeits!
    I do not like less rights and corporate SPAM,
    -Signed, Estranged Nephew of Uncle Sam.

  11. Re:Not that dire. Let us not exaggerate. by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most of us slashdotters work in the software industry and it is the Intellectual Property protection is responsible in large part to the size and security of our pay checks. Let use look at it objectively.

    Objectively, they want to be able to shop for labor, products and services globally while we can't. Do you think your pay check is any more secure against outsourcing just because they can force people to buy expensive "Not for sale outside the US" editions instead of cheap "Not for sale outside Taiwan" editions? Hell no, they'll go where it's cheapest but would very much like to stop you doing the same. And you bought it hook, line and sinker...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  12. Re:Censored: "secondary market" by Alain+Williams · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So companies don't sell real estate, they sell a shell company that technically owns the property.

    That happened in the UK as well until the government decided that it was wrong and would tax the sales anyway; I think that they also added an extra tax in this case - the practise soon stopped.