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US Firms Race Fiscal Cliff To Install Wind Turbines

Hugh Pickens writes "BBC reports that U.S. energy companies are racing to install wind turbines before a federal tax credit expires at the end of this year which could be lost as Congress struggles with new legislation to avoid the 'fiscal cliff.' 'There's a lot of rushing right now to get projects completed by the end of the year,' says Rob Gramlich, senior vice president at the American Wind Energy Association. 'There's a good chance we could get this extension, it is very hard to predict, but the industry is not making bets on the Congress getting it done,' Even if there is an extension there is likely to be a significant curtailment of wind installations in 2013. From 1999 to 2004, Congress allowed the wind energy production tax credit to expire three times, each time retroactively extending it several months after the expiration deadline had passed, but wind energy companies say they need longer time frames to negotiate deals to sell the power they generate. 'Even if the tax credit is extended, our new construction plans likely will be ramped back substantially in 2013 compared with the last few years,' says Paul Copleman. 'So much time has passed without certainty that a normal one-year extension would not be a game-changer for our 2013 build plans.'"

26 of 98 comments (clear)

  1. hot air by Moblaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    All this hot wind about tax credits... I think it will break soon. And this whole thing will blow over.

    1. Re:hot air by ThaumaTechnician · · Score: 3, Funny

      Cliffs generally are places where a lot of wind gets blown about. They probably are good places to install wind turbines. Bonus..we could use the electricity they generate to electrocute politicians.

    2. Re:hot air by WWJohnBrowningDo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Since our founding fathers are all spinning in their graves right now, might as well hook them up to generators and harvest the free energy.

  2. Rent seeking by jamesl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Rent seeking, meet regulatory capture.

    1. Re:Rent seeking by Brickwall · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Absolutely! Here in Ontario, our moronic provincial gov't guaranteed 20 year contracts to the wind and solar companies at $0.80/kWh. Meanwhile, our nuclear reactors are generating power at $.03/kWh. And because they guaranteed to buy all the wind power that's produced, they end up having to sell it at a big loss. Brilliant! What's worse is the wind turbines, perhaps because Ontario is in the centre of the continent, generate most of their power during the shoulder periods of power demand. At least solar has the benefit of producing the most power on hot sunny days, when air conditioning demand is high. What's the old saying? "First, God created idiots. That was for practice. Then he created politicians."

      --
      What was once true, is no longer so
    2. Re:Rent seeking by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What's worse is the wind turbines, perhaps because Ontario is in the centre of the continent, generate most of their power during the shoulder periods of power demand.

      That doesn't matter, so long as the wind generation capacity you have is less than your fossil fuel capacity. As long as that's true, you can think of it almost like having a super-efficient storage method for the wind power your generate: you "store" it as unburned fossil fuel.

      Only *after* your wind generating capability exceeds your non-renewable energy sources,does the wind power you can't sell "goes to waste". But then it was going to waste anyhow. You're still thinking of renewable energy sources like non-renewable ones. It doesn't matter if you don't capture and use every bit of a renewable energy source, because there's always more of it coming. What matters is can you make the dollars and cents work. It's quite possible for a 10% efficient solar array to be successful yet a 50% efficient one to be a financial failure. It depends on the cost of producing, siting, installing and maintaining the array vs. the value of the electricity it produces. The 90% of energy you waste with the inefficient cells doesn't matter; 100% was going to waste before you installed them.

      It may well be that your government set up a bad deal, but that's just lack of financial acumen, not a problem with the technology.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:Rent seeking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      seems like you don't really understand the purpose of subsidies. they are to encourage a fledgling industry and keep it up until it can stand on its own. there is considerable first-mover advantage in the energy business and even the hoops for connecting to the grid for a energy provider are high walls to new technology.

      fit contract rates are different for wind and solar, and have been decreasing over time as a result of the evaluation of the cost changes over time. microFit was 0.80 per kw*hr for solar less than 10 kw, wind was 11 cents a kw*hr. these numbers are even less now, with solar at 40-60 cents, depending on the installation location (roof or ground mounted).

      the majority of contracts were for wind, because there are locations in ontario that have significant wind resources (along the great lakes and in some northern communities).

    4. Re:Rent seeking by amorsen · · Score: 4, Informative

      Citation needed for $0.80/kWh for wind. Even ridiculously overpriced wind farms elsewhere are at $0.20/kWh. Anholt Sea Wind Farm, widely criticized for having its proposal structured in such a way that there could only be a single bidder and therefore monopoly pricing, is at 1.05DKK/kWh or 0.19USD/kWh for the first 20TWh. 20TWh should be reached in approximately 13 years.

      $0.03/kWh is only possible for nuclear reactors which have paid off their capital investment already and are only paying for maintenance. Wind power under the same conditions can produce at lower cost than that.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    5. Re:Rent seeking by Sir_Sri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If tax credits and rebates are what make wind profitable.

      Lots of industries start with various forms of government subsidy. The mistake made in ontario was thinking that the price of wind turbines was going to remain as high as it was for a lot longer.

      The government was trying to convince the public that wind generators weren't going to destroy property values, deafen children etc. They were willing to take a loss on this up front in the hopes that by the time generation came down in price people wouldn't put up a huge protest about it. Unfortunately for the government, the price came down far faster than anyone anticipated, which is good for basically everyone else.

      Had they stayed hugely expensive the government would be basically subsidizing half a dozen wind turbines here and there to show off, which, on the scale of things costs basically nothing, and if it made it easier to convince people to install a few thousand of them 20 years from now so much the better. But the price came down much faster than they anticipated.

    6. Re:Rent seeking by haruchai · · Score: 4, Informative

      It has nothing to do with nuclear.
      Ontario's nuke capacity is about 11GW max but the lowest demand for any hour going back over 10 years is 13GW so the balance is made up by hydro, gas, wind and coal.
      The coal usage has been cut back significantly in the last 5-7 yrs and the max wind output has only recently exceeded 1GW.

      From what I understand, the issue is the wind farms were given "must-take" status for their power which is stupid during low-demand hours but that's policy and fixable.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    7. Re:Rent seeking by Brickwall · · Score: 2

      Your figures are close, but according to Ontario's ISEO, lowest hourly demand was just over 11MWh in November. Since our hydro capacity is about 1/3 of our nukes, that gives us about 15 MW of capacity before we get into fossils vs renewables.. You're right about coal - it's down to about 2%. But natural gas is cheap; its price right now is about 10% of what it was in 2007. It burns cleaner than coal or oil, and we have oceans of it in Western Canada. So of course the Liberals cancelled two gas plants just before the election to save their sorry hides. That's what I can't stand about McGuinty; he makes grandstanding gestures that will cost all Ontarians billions. He has run our debt up to about $240 billion; California, with three times as many people, has a debt of $620 billion, and many people think it's a basket case. We're proportionately worse off, and we're going to pay for it with higher taxes and poorer services over the two decades. Wasting billions on this foolish renewable scheme was just irresponsible.

      --
      What was once true, is no longer so
  3. Re:Just Pathetic by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    The US Congress is just pathetic.

    A perfect reflection of the people that voted for them. What's to complain about?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  4. Re:Just Pathetic by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A perfect reflection of the people that voted for them.

    Actually, it demonstrably isn't. Some reasons why:
    1. Gerrymandering. For example, the party that got the most votes won't hold the most seats in Congress come the next term.
    2. This is a lame duck session. So it's actually a reflection of the electorate from 2 years ago, not the current electorate.
    3. The "money primary", where candidates must impress potential donors to even have a chance of impressing the electorate, ensures that proposals that might hurt large donors are never even considered.

    There are many opinions widely held by the American public that are nowhere near actually getting through Congress. For instance, a majority of Americans would approve the federal legalization of marijuana, but such a proposal has never even come close to getting a floor vote in Congress.

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    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  5. There is no cliff by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 2

    It's just another made-up name to mislead and / or scare the bejeezus out of people. Just like PATRIOT Act (patriot == good, cliff == bad). The world will still be here tomorrow no matter what happens.

    1. Re:There is no cliff by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, I agree. Sequestration is the more accurate term that was used when the idea was first proposed.

      However: the 24 hour media engine needs it's narrative, both major parties need something that "went wrong" that can conveniently be blamed on the other, and the wealthy really want to keep their excessively low effective tax rates(not that we're fixing capital gains). This stupid "emergency" is a natural consequence of a bunch of people with something to gain.

      That is not to say the particulars of the "debate" are all completely OK. For example, those in congress who wish block the debt ceiling again can indeed crash the bond market, if they push it too far.

  6. Re:The biggest enemy to our economy by kybred · · Score: 2

    has become the US Congress. Never have I seen so many get paid so much to do so little. They better wake up soon, otherwise a torch bearing mob may did it for them.

    We need to push them off the physical cliff!

  7. Re:The biggest enemy to our economy by KarlIsNotMyName · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With their own torches that they'll use to set fire to stuff, so they'll have an excuse to arrest the lot.

    --
    We are all God's parents.
  8. Actually... by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 2

    Everyone under the sun is racing to get deals done before the new year. It's not just one tax credit.

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    -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
  9. Re:We will know an "energy source" is worth a damn by hey! · · Score: 2

    Wind power is and will be taxed like any other income. They're getting a break up front on capital expenses because policymakers have reasons other than private profitability to have secure domestic sources of energy.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  10. Re:The biggest enemy to our economy by Binestar · · Score: 2

    Senate can't vote on a budget until the house gives them one. If they don't like what the house delivers is doesn't pass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_7

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    Do you Gentoo!?
  11. Re:We will know an "energy source" is worth a damn by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Funny

    But is hydroelectricity worth a dam?

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  12. Re:The biggest enemy to our economy by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Informative

    If the "torch-bearing mob" you're referring to was Occupy Wall Street, they didn't have any torches or pitchforks, they had signs and chants and meetings which clearly presented no physical threat to the banks. The New York police responded to them by:
    - pepper-spraying them for the heinous crime of walking down a sidewalk
    - beating them with batons
    - In one case, running a guy over with a motorcycle, arresting him for being in the way, and then denying medical treatment of his broken leg
    - Pushing them into the street and then arresting them for jaywalking
    - In policing a planned march over the Brooklyn bridge, waited until as many as possible were on the bridge, then blocked both exits and arresting everyone in between
    - Put an end to the protest by barging in at 3 AM to a public park, beating and kicking the sleeping people who didn't move fast enough, and destroying all the personal property that they could get their hands on
    - In the aftermath, some of the people known to have been protesting were fired from their jobs

    So that's why people avoid protest movements in the US: If it has a chance of changing something, it will be violently suppressed. In one of the related protests in other cities, the police repeatedly pepper-sprayed an 82-year-old woman who hadn't gotten out of the way fast enough, and ended up killing an Iraq War veteran (probably accidentally, but still).

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  13. Re:Are UK and US wind turbines the same? by Smidge204 · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.ewea.org/blog/2012/12/study-on-turbine-lifespan-just-more-anti-wind-propaganda/

    The report (link to report proper is in the page linked above) was put together by "The Global Warming Policy Foundation" - a known organization of AGW denialists. It speaks volumes that the only sites that reference the report as an authoritative source are other AGW-denying blogs and websites. Combined with the fact that the report you cite flies contrary to dozens of other reports and technical analyses, you should be really quite suspicious about an ulterior agenda.
    =Smidge=

  14. Re:Just Pathetic by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

    For what it's worth, I'm neither a Democrat or Republican - I have no dog in that fight. In my view, the correct way to handle redistricting is something along the lines of shortest-splitline or University of Illinois' mathematical districts.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  15. Re:The biggest enemy to our economy by celle · · Score: 2

    "Democrats are incapable of seriously negotiating with Republicans,"

          That because for the last several terms the republicans haven't been negotiating, just dictating. The only bills that have passed the house have been political bills written to kiss ass to their base electorate(or strategic attempts to embarrass the president) knowing full well that the democrats won't touch them. Fact is the democrats are fed up with their bullshit and have the last election to support their view. Until the republicans are willing to negotiate in good faith(not my way or the hi-way) very little is going to get done.

          The republicans declared war on Obama before he was even in office. They barely acknowledged he was elected. And have systematically been compromising the government trying to get rid of him ever since. The republicans job was to run the country until the next election cycle. Instead they've spent most of their energy trying to embarrass the president. What do you call trying to unseat a legally elected and legally operating president during his term in office? /observation and a conclusion that already been done once with Bill Clinton.

  16. Re:The biggest enemy to our economy by Nimey · · Score: 2

    Because the Ryan budget is a joke. It's a thumb in the eye that won't even solve the budget shortfalls.

    --
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    E pluribus sanguinem