Chromebook Takes Top Place In Laptop Sales On Amazon

rtfa-troll writes "Amazon's latest table of the top selling laptops will be a surprise for many on Slashdot whose first reaction when we discussed this before was 'so what,' with pundits describing it as 'an enterprise contender.' Given the recent launch and huge advertising campaign, you might expect that the top selling consumer laptop would be based on Win8. If you read recent discussions about Microsoft's troubled new system you might expect a Mac to be leading, but Google's Chromebook topping the sales chart on a consumer site without any major advertising campaign is a major surprise. We've discussed before that apart from its web based ChromeOS, Chromebooks are also very fast running Ubuntu Linux and have several other distributions already ported."

Comments

so what

[Anonymous Coward]

so what

Re:so what

[rvw]

so what

So what??? This means 2013 must be the year of the Linux Desktop!

Re:so what

[Andy Prough]

I was waiting for a decent Android laptop, but with all the thousands of Android apps ported to Chrome, this Chromebook is the ticket.

Re:so what

[PopeRatzo]

2013 is the Year of the Linus Desktop.

You cover your head with a blanket and work using your smartphone.

Re:so what

[sbutton]

Linux IS the operating system of the future... and it always will be.

Lame? The Slashdot blessing

[Subm]

Soon the tech industry will proudly proclaim

Declared "Lame" by Slashdot! ... with whatever that time's less space than a Nomad and having no wireless are.

Re:Lame? The Slashdot blessing

[icebike]

You might be on to something there, since Slashdot just yesterday had a story about how net books were dead. Most poster didn't realize that the netbook simple morphed into chrombooks.

Great system for parents

[Cinder6]

My mom's laptop failed, so I convinced her to get the Samsung Chromebook. So far, she says she really likes it. It's dead simple to use, as it pretty much only does what she needs--web browsing and email. There's no settings for her to mess up, updates are silent and automatic, and it's next to impossible to "break" the OS. I offered to set it up for her, but all I actually had to do was enter her Gmail password and the WiFi password. The only setting I changed was to enable Google Instant.

From my own observations of playing around for 10 minutes, the hardware itself leaves a (very) little bit to be desired. The trackpad feels a little rough (though I'm comparing it to a MacBook Air, so it's hardly a fair comparison), and there is a noticeable delay when switching tabs. Again, though, I'm comparing a $250 machine to a $1400 machine, so it's hard to complain. Software-wise, accessing the settings page is slightly unintuitive (from the "desktop", click your username; it's not in the app list). Also, there's no caps lock, which may or may not be annoying. It's been replaced by a search button which doubles as the Windows key on a PC keyboard.

Re:Great system for parents

[Ash-Fox]

The thing I find sucky about a Chromebook is the lack of Skype.

Re:Great system for parents

[iserlohn]

Try Google Hangouts. It works much better than Skype.

Re:Great system for parents

[bickerdyke]

Yes, though Hangouts are a good replacement.

But it's not a lack of skype, it's a lack of each and every local app, but then again, that's part of the concept.

Re:Great system for parents

[blind biker]

I just realized I never use Caps Lock anymore. I don't even know when was the last time I used it, but it was long ago.

Re:Great system for parents

[Graymalkin]

ME NEITHER.

Re:Great system for parents

[BronsCon]

LIKEWISE. I HIT IT ONCE AFTER I BOOT UP, TO MAKE SURE IT STILL WORKS, AND LEAVE IT ALONE UNTIL THE NEXT REBOOT.

Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Seriously, Slashdot? Way to fuck up my gag.
Nope, still can't post this, let's add a little more lowercase text.

Re:Great system for parents

[iserlohn]

Yes it does -

https://plus.google.com/104364547339874244431/posts/gKKyJjTpzj8

"A new extra for Hangouts with extras: make phone calls from inside a hangout

We are constantly listening to feedback so that we can make Hangouts even better for Google+ users, and we're excited by the really cool ways people are using the product. Today we’re making it possible to make phone calls from inside a hangout, so you can dial people into the room from wherever they’re at. (Helpful for party lines and conference calls alike.)

This new feature is initially available inside Hangouts with extras (plus.google.com/hangouts/extras), and we currently support calls to the US and Canada (for free, in fact). The steps for adding a telephone participant are straightforward:

1. Click Invite at the top of the hangouts with extras window
2. Click the Phone tab on the left of the window, and enter the phone number you wish to call.
3. Click Call now.

#googleplusupdate"

Re:Great system for parents

[bluefoxlucid]

it'll take you a month to learn to touch type. Do it with QWERTY first, just because that's what everything uses. After a year, come back and spend a month learning to touch-type Dvorak. I do 72wpm on QWERTY and 125 on Dvorak.

Re:Great system for parents

[mdonley]

Try Google Hangouts. It works much better than Skype.

Somebody mod this up, please! Google Hangouts has been so very much more stable than Skype ever was when video chatting with our son off at college. Skype would die 2-3 times during a normal conversation, and we'd have to reconnect. Google Hangouts is rock solid so far, and leverages account credentials we already use heavily. No need to maintain a second username and password for the Skype ecosystem.

Re:Great system for parents

[Ash-Fox]

I don't feel this is that balanced, partly due to my experiences with Google hangouts (admittedly Skype is currently my preferred platform here, but to say Google hangouts is solid is not the case in my experience).

Somebody mod this up, please! Google Hangouts has been so very much more stable than Skype ever was when video chatting with our son off at college.

I have had instances when Skype was the only way to communicate with people over fairly restrictive networks. I will reflect on stability in my following responses.

Skype would die 2-3 times during a normal conversation, and we'd have to reconnect.

I have had problems on Google Hangouts where people keep having the hangout plugin crash in Chrome, disconnect loops and people's Internet connections not being able to sustain connections when someone starts desktop sharing. In comparison, I have had less of these on Skype - I've noticed the worst that will happen in connection problems is degradation of quality, I have rarely encounterd call drops.

Google Hangouts is rock solid so far

I would not say that, it works most of the time for me, but it's also been persistent at times, at not working at all for some people in hangouts I've been in. The worst complaint I hear about Skype these days from my circle of friends that use Skype is that it messes with their volume controls - That's relatively minor when compared to crashing problems or people getting dropped out because their connection could not handle someone randomly screensharing.

No need to maintain a second username and password for the Skype ecosystem.

You can use Facebook or passport.net identities if that fits your fancy more on Skype. Although to be honest, there is not much to manage, it is not like you have to relogin to Skype all the time.

Re:Great system for parents

[Ash-Fox]

That's what you get for living in a third-world country.

We have higher speeds, more reliable and cheaper Internet (accessible to the majority of the population), mobile phone networks where unlimited really means... Unlimited and various laws to protect the consumer. I am okay not having Google Hangouts as an option, I think I got better the deal regardless. u mad?

People not aware that it runs ChromeOS?

[Anonymous Coward]

My big question is what the return rate will be like. I suspect that some people are expecting a full desktop OS, like Windows.

Re:People not aware that it runs ChromeOS?

[isorox]

My big question is what the return rate will be like. I suspect that some people are expecting a full desktop OS, like Windows.

The big question is how few will tell the difference. Apple knows this, Microsoft knows this, google knows this. Slashdot doesn't.

Re:People not aware that it runs ChromeOS?

[should_be_linear]

Product received great reviews from buyers, so no.

Re:People not aware that it runs ChromeOS?

[idealego]

It currently receives 4/5 stars based on 569 reviews, so it's fair to say that people like it.

I browsed over the reviews and there's nothing there to suggest that many people are returning it because it's a Chromebook.

Re:People not aware that it runs ChromeOS?

[Mostly a lurker]

TFA says it runs Ubuntu -- "a full desktop OS."

This means that it is possible to install Ubuntu (and several other Linux distributions) not that it is sold with Ubuntu already installed. For most buyers, the experience out of the box is what counts. Fwiiw, I think this will be perfectly acceptable for most bearing in mind the price tag.

Re:People not aware that it runs ChromeOS?

[Andy Prough]

I asked the guys at BestBuy that I bought mine from. They said they weren't getting returns. When I bought mine, they were pretty aggressive in making sure I knew that it was a web-based system, and not Windows or Mac.

Re:People not aware that it runs ChromeOS?

[gbjbaanb]

And these people will return them and buy a Surface, running Windows RT :)

And Windows 8 almost edges out 7

[DingerX]

1. Chrome
2. OSX
3. Win 7
4. OSX
5. Win 8
6. Win 7
7. Win 7
8. OSX
9. Win 8
10. Win 8


So, certainly, laptops come in so many different flavors that the OSs that circulate in "one size fits all" SKUs will float to the top. We'd expect Macs and Chromebooks to sell more of a given configuration than a Microsoft box. But two months after the launch of Win 8, to see Win 7 beating it in the retail channel, that's news.

Re:And Windows 8 almost edges out 7

[AmiMoJo]

It's due to New-Old-Stock, i.e. laptops made last year when Win 7 was the only option and now being sold off cheaply. Most people don't chose Win7/Win8, they just buy whatever laptop suits their wallet.

It is a great system with Ubuntu

[asola]

I have been using the new ARM Chromebook with ChrUbuntu Alpha + refinemeents for almost 2 weeks and I have to say that it already a usable configuration. Most of the important desktop stuff already works (suspend-resume, playing videos...etc) and with good speed. This new Exynos 5250 is really a desktop class processor (at least as strong as the one in my old Toshiba Portege m200). For example: it cold-starts LibreOffice Writer in 5s which is pretty unheard of in the ARM world. If I manage to setup hw accelerated video playing and Oracle's Java, I will be an extremely happy Chromebook owner but I already consider it a good purchase in its current state.

Re:It is a great system with Ubuntu

[Andy Prough]

Yeah, it's shocking how fast this Exynos processor is, and the Chromebook handles graphics processes with ease. I can run more videos concurrently on it than on my desktop. My daughter hooks up the HDMI port to run her big flat screen TV with it and watch Hulu. I guess Netflix isn't working yet on the $250 model, but they are supposed to fix that soon. Also nice that you get a full-sized USB 3.0 port, a full-sized USB 2.0 port, and a full-sized HDMI port. Nicer than the MacBook Air in that regard - no need to run out and buy the MacBook-to-HDMI conversion adaptor for $30.

Android story reloaded

[should_be_linear]

Just like Android, this OS will bring $100 Chinese laptops, that would be great for Linux users, and also provide great OLPC solution as a side effect. Only feature I need in future ChromeOS editions, is integrated VirtualBox, so that I can launch Ubuntu from within ChromeOS.

Not surprising if you think about it

[WegianWarrior]

It's cheap and do what most people want a laptop to do - check emails, surf the web and type up the occasional letter. It's also a good machine for geeks, since it's not locked down with Windows or OSX - meaning you can stick any flavour of Linux you want on it if you know how. In the current economic situation it taps into the same markets as the original netbooks - the 7" and 9" Eee - did; people needing a cheap machine to get online and geek-heads wanting a toy.

The danger is off course that the Chromebook will go down the same slippery slope as the netbooks fif; bigger screens, more beefed up hardware... until they are just another laptop.

Re:Not surprising if you think about it

[Henriok]

No Mac is locked down in a way that you can't run Windows or Linux on them. A Mac isn't locked down in any other way I can think of either

Re:Not surprising if you think about it

[Anonymous Coward]

A Mac is locked down so you can't *only* run Windows on it - Windows cannot update the boot configuration if you try and do a fully native install! You need to install it via bootcamp.

You also cannot boot the Windows install media from an external device (hard disk, usb key or external dvd drive) on many Macs - the Mac won't allow it, you have to boot it fm the internal DVD drive.

You also cannot boot OSX externally and try and partition the non-boot disk for Bootcamp, again it won't allow it. You have to partition the device OSX is booted from.

So, right now, my 256GB SSD in my 2010 MBP sports a 10GB OSX partition that wll never again be booted into. Rather sad :(

Re:Not surprising if you think about it

[Andy Prough]

Mostly the Chromebook is just so lightweight. My daughter's 11.6 inch MacBook Air is heavy compared to this thing.

Re:Not surprising if you think about it

[Anonymous Coward]

Not being able to deal with UEFI is a limitation of windows. Apple didn't do anything to intentionally prevent Windows from running.

Re:Not surprising if you think about it

[Nimey]

Thing is, Apple firmware is based on UEFI 1.x, while on the PC side everything that's not BIOS is UEFI 2.0, which is different enough to cause problems. On top of that a lot of older Apple firmware is 32-bit and can't directly boot a 64-bit Windows even though the processor could handle it.

Re:Not surprising if you think about it

[blackest_k]

Not quite the same markets as the original netbooks, there is a difference and that is android and ios.
non computer geeks had the mind set that they needed a windows pc like they had at work otherwise it wouldn't be compatible. The alternative was either a Mac or some obscure Linux machine.

The netbooks that were released with Linux either had the obscure xandros or the even more obscure linpus. Which were even disliked by people who liked to run linux.

The modern day computer buyer is not so naive as in 2007/2008 they have been using Android or IOS or both have been able to choose from 1000's of apps and games and there is a huge number that run in the browser.

Windows is an unpleasant experience from new, the trial ware, antivirus warnings and hard sell that come with a new windows system are confusing and frightening people. Nobody wants to deal with this junk. Even the create a back up disc is scary, you get one chance to make this disk if you mess up you are without a paddle, when was the last time you were asked to set up a windows device, pretty recently if you are the go to guy when it comes to computers.

Microsofts strategy is still obviously "you need windows" which is why they push the "windows experience" on every device and is also why they are failing, Chances are most people have a windows laptop in the house, (people do not want a work station at home ,it is their home) In the vague circumstances that they need windows it is there and these days gathering dust.

There is next to zero configuration to do on an android or ios device usually its just a question of typing in the password written on the back of the router, and with android your google name and password. you do that and your pretty much set. Chromebook is pretty much more of the same.

Google has pretty much changed the landscape, about one of the few things people want to do that is slightly complicated is edit photo's and google gave us picassa. they gave us google docs and a place to keep the letters and spreadsheets and pdf files and its all there for us anywhere on our google accounts. I'm fairly sure apple does the same for ios and osx users.

Everything is simpler to do now. If i want to watch a movie that is on my tablet i can plug 1 hdmi cable from my TV / home cinema and hit play. it is that easy. With things like dlna i can have any media on my tablet or phone and playing on my tv. Did you never listen to the people who were saying how do i watch this on my tv not on my laptop.

So no it's not just a replacement for the netbook of a few years ago times have changed, people have changed and Microsoft are losing out. You know Google has been very clever in that they haven't locked down the chromebooks they have included developer mode, even look at the name doesn't it stroke your ego to be called a developer, not a neck beard or a computer geek. So there is Linux for those of us who want a little more and the best stuff that gets created will probably end up in android or chromebook or ios.

Repositories are a great idea, App stores are even better, play store is better than that, it's not work its play!
To be fair look at the Repositories which are full of version numbers, no reviews a screenshot if your lucky no user feedback no developer feedback for the users. No alternatives and other programs you might like to try.

The playstore doesn't make a big deal about installing an App in fact they say carry on shopping while we download and install this and no stupid questions like do you want to install this here? or maybe not install this option? Shopping who doesn't like shopping and when most of the goods on sale are at the low price point of free, well maybe free with some ads (because nothings really free, is it). The ads probably don't sell a thing except the pro version of the software you are using.

Microsoft is as boring as it gets, don't you remember when everything was beige and to get hip everything became black and blue led strips

No working Skype for Android either

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to think Microsoft are deliberately making a second rate Android version, but I have to admit it's probably just incompetence.

To list the major faults Skype for Android has:
1. Video is upside down, if you rotate the device, then both the camera and video playback are upside down, but the other person does see you right way up in that case.
2. Video is landscape only & very fuzzy, but the camera video is not fuzzy, probably the compression?
3. Audio plays back very very quietly even with full volume.
4. Lag, lots of it.
5. Occasionally Skype gets in a state where the Android tablet won't go into hibernation until you force-kill Skype. This really sucks down the battery juice.
6. Call receive ring is very quiet, even with full volume.

So as far as I'm concerned, there is no Skype that's viable for Android either. It doesn't really matter, there are plenty of messaging/video apps, I just don't count Skype among them.

Re:No working Skype for Android either

[djsmiley]

1. Not for me
2. Not for me
3. Not for me
4. Not for me
5. Not for me
6. Not for me.

Have you attempted to raise any bugs, give any indication of what device your using or anything you've tried? No?

I'm all for MS bashing (see previous comments :D) however spoutting utter shit like this without any facts is 1. expected on slashdot, 2. unhelpful to everyone other than trolls.

Re:Apple Leads

[Savage-Rabbit]

that is some twisted perspective considering 6 of the top 10 are windows lol.

I think he meant that this would be news if there were more Chrome-books on that list than Apple Macs since Apple is a smaller competitor to beat when it comes to laptop sales than the 800 pound gorilla that is Windows Laptops. Chrome-books displacing Windows laptops on the top 10 most sold list would be the next hurdle. Personally, I'll be impressed one of these Chrome-books managed to stays on that list on for any length of time, not that I'm especially impressed by that list, the one for music players still has third place on the Amazon list and it is discontinued.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Hard-Drive-Based/zgbs/electronics/15752041

This year's "thin client."

[Shag]

Does the basics (but don't look for serious application software for it soon, if ever), is as cheap as an old netbook was, and by being largely cloud-based, is probably "safer" in a lot of ways - not just malware, but the potential for corporations or institutions to remotely configure, update and "manage" (control) what their users can access.

Does it run Linux?

[devent]

I mean, can I install Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora on the Box? Is it locked down or can I just boot from USB stick?

Thanks for the info.

Re:Does it run Linux?

[Trepidity]

Yes, you can flip a "developer mode" switch to disable the hardware lockdown, and install a "regular" distribution of Linux like Ubuntu.

Re:No major ad campaign?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are Chrome Book ads on national prime time TV here in the UK, started before Christmas and still going on.

Re:Apple Leads

[rvw]

that is some twisted perspective considering 6 of the top 10 are windows lol.

I think he meant that this would be news if there were more Chrome-books on that list than Apple Macs since Apple is a smaller competitor to beat when it comes to laptop sales than the 800 pound gorilla that is Windows Laptops.

Interesting way of putting it - 800 pound Gorilla. The fact is that even if those Windows laptops are 800 pound Gorillas, the macbooks are probably 1200 GBP gorillas.

You got that right.

[Anonymous Coward]

My big question is what the return rate will be like. I suspect that some people are expecting a full desktop OS, like Windows.

The big question is how few will tell the difference. Apple knows this, Microsoft knows this, google knows this. Slashdot doesn't.

Anyone who has ever had to do any sort of tech support with the general public will have this sort of conversation:

Tech support: "What operating system are you running?"

Jane Q Public: "HP."

It's not an exaggeration.

Another kick in the balls for Intel. Thanks ARM!

[water-and-sewer]

Yes I know, Chipzilla is doing just fine, thankyaverymuch. But think about it: about 10 years ago we thought AMD would be the big challenger that would compete with Intel and reduce the Wintel monopoly. But AMD only did that semi-effectively. Yes it helped control costs (God help us to think what we'd be paying for computers these days if Intel were allowed to set its prices in a world without competition). But Android on ARM, some netbooks not long ago, and now Chromebooks seem to be the ones challenging the dominant computing paradigm. That means ARM has actually been the chip(s) that is currently causing the folks at Intel to sweat a little bit. Interesting times we live in.

Doesn't surprise me that much

[jimicus]

This doesn't surprise me for a number of reasons:

  - There have also been plenty of prime-time ads for Chromebooks on TV - at least in the UK, and I imagine elsewhere.

  - IME, most people don't really like Windows, they see it as a necessary evil. The advent of smartphones and tablets has very efficiently demonstrated that it's no longer necessary.

  - Why don't people like Windows? There's a number of reasons, but most of them relate to incomprehensible and/or nonsensical error messages, a death-by-a-thousand-cuts of other expenses you pretty much have to incur like antivirus software, cheap hardware that's so damn nasty it doesn't look very cheap once you start trying to use it and dealing with the fallout when despite all of that you still click on the wrong thing and need to get someone in to fix it. (Yes, I know Android, iOS and ChromeOS are all hypothetically susceptible to similar issues. But the important point is they're not being actively exploited today).

  - What is the recommended fix for these issues? Go out and buy the next version of Windows! (Which many people automatically assume means "buy a new PC", even if that's not true. You'd be surprised how many people honestly have no idea that you can replace Windows with a different version or even with something else entirely).

  - Google has carved out an extremely strong brand. People see the word Google and associate it with finding what they want quickly and easily with a minimal amount of bullshit getting in the way. Associate Google with a laptop that doesn't do any of the things people dislike about Windows and you have a very interesting product indeed.

Re:Why is it not Android?

[queazocotal]

String theory is not physics.
It's the purest math, until it's testable by experiment.

Re:Targeted customers

[Andy Prough]

Na - I got mine from BestBuy. I walked in and asked for one - had to order it and wait for two days. The store guys said they can't keep the store inventory up with the demand, but they keep getting them in the distribution warehouses.

Re:Targeted customers

[segedunum]

You've split some pretty major hairs there to explain why the Chromebook is on top.

The end of the rainbow is getting closer

[gmuslera]

Maybe by then desktop will lose its meaning or be irrelevant, but many signals are pointing in the direction that in a not so far future will finally reach the year of Linux in the desktop. Is already the main OS for servers, supercomputers, mobile, computing devices in general (those last 2 mainly because Android), and not sure about embedded. And Chromebooks, Steam and Windows 8, among other factors, will be giving it a nice push this year.

The next debate probably will be that what is in the desktop (over the linux kernel) won't be a "traditional" linux desktop, KDE/Gnome and others will still be around, but the mainly used user interface/programs could be something not so native like android or html5 apps, but being Linux probably will be options to use what you prefer.

Excuse me

[sa1lnr]

"without any major advertising campaign"

Regular Chromebook TV ads here in the UK. There is a big wide world outside of the U.S.A.

Re:It's just the price

[FranTaylor]

The price dropped for the Windows netbooks

Yeah it doesn't look good for Microsoft when their competitors keep forcing them to take smaller and smaller margins.

Microsoft systems will always be burdened with the "Microsoft Tax" otherwise Microsoft has no revenue source.

Google systems have no "tax", because the OS is free. They have a distinct price advantage.

Re:Targeted customers

[hairyfeet]

Not to mention in every town there is one or more shops that are happy to sell you Windows 7, be it on desktops or laptops, and of course for the past...ohh I'd say at least the last 5 years or so, computers have frankly been so insanely overpowered compared to what the customers actually do with the thing there simply isn't a real reason to upgrade before they die which can be quite awhile. Hell most of my customers simply had me install Win 7 on the systems they had bought from me with XP, why? Because they were duals,triples, and quads and so overpowered that they do everything they want them to so why buy another before that one dies?

But for any of those that think "Win 8 is just the 'Star Trek Rule' in action" nope, take a gooood look as Ballmer has made it clear in his "Windows Blue" memo that this is it, you can have Apple or overpriced MSFT hardware pretending to be Apple, they are gonna copy everything down to the stores and making their own hardware and trying to lock everything down into a black box appstore centric model, so Win 7 is pretty much the last real copy of Windows if Ballmer doesn't get fired.

Frankly I don't see how the OEMs have any choice, MSFT is already fucking the living hell out of them when it comes to Windows licenses (now rumored to be over $50 a copy for Windows Home, with NO breaks on price no matter how many they buy) and is gonna be trying to actively destroy them with their own MSFT branded hardware in 2013. So they really don't have a choice here, either they close their doors or they find a new supplier and I have a feeling Google will be happy to take that business. I predict if the board doesn't quit smoking crack and fire the Ballmernator that in less than 3 years you'll see all the OEMs pushing ChromeTops and ChromeBooks and they'll have a few VERY expensive Windows machines in the corner that they won't advertise and won't give a shit about because it would be like Kmart pushing Walmart brands, all you are doing is helping the company that wants to put you out of business.

So while the ChromeBooks are limted to online now I have a feeling by summer of this year you are gonna see a TON of new models, in all different sizes and prices, all over the retailers and the online. I mean what else can they do? Its that or do like Nvidia did with chipsets and just close the doors, MSFT has made it clear the "future" of Windows is MSFT OSes running on MSFT hardware sold from a MSFT store with a very high MSFT markup, no way they are gonna sell Windows licenses cheap enough for the OEMs to keep selling against them.

To me the sad part will be the death of DIY and the little shops, because as we have seen with the latest Chromebooks they are getting more and more locked down (hell you can't even run Linux on the things without 3 pages worth of CLI and a LOT of finger crossing) so what you will end up with is disposable black boxes, more like cellphones than today's desktops and laptops.

And sorry about the length but this really fucking depresses me, not because of the shop as I've been moving more into home theaters and security setups anyway, but because it looks like we are going back to the 80s with everything locked down and proprietary, its all gonna be soldered chips that boot from locked BIOS into a locked OS that requires everything go through an appstore owned by the company that owns the OS, but people standing in line to buy overpriced iToys have convinced the IT world that that is what people want,locked down appliances instead of general purpose computing. Fucking shame and I have a feeling the next decade or two is gonna really suck balls and computers will pile up in the landfills like old gaming consoles because you won't be able to do jack shit with them when the corps stop supporting it, but that is what the consumer seems to want.

Re:Targeted customers

[mikael]

You get a gaming PC (hardware only) for £600, but Windows 7/8/whatever costs an extra £200. Same in Norway, Get a gaming PC for 6000 Kronar, but Windows whatever costs another 2000 Kronar, which amounts to the cost of another GPU card, external backup drive, some extra memory or simply 2/3 weeks food shopping.

What is the major difference between Windows 7/8 and XP or a Linux distro? Just the GUI

Re:Targeted customers

[David Gerard]

To buy that thing, one has to order it via Amazon - and fact is that, even today, not many people know how to order stuffs from Amazon.

Well, Ubuntu can help with that! If you search for drivers for your NVidia card, it'll return a link to golf clubs on Amazon.

With the one-click ordering they plan for 13.04, a search for NVidia drivers will see the golf clubs show up at your door the next day. With customer service like that, Canonical will be unstoppable.

Apple like for $300

[EmperorOfCanada]

An apple like laptop for $300 bucks seems to be a bit of a no brainer. Like many slashdotters I am the technical adviser for most of my large family as well as work. With the exception of those who need specific Microsoft Programs or iTunes a Linux desktop on a machine with those specs would nicely meet the budget and needs of at least half my family. For my self I would love it as a second laptop. There are so many specs in the typical computer that far exceed the typical user's needs. My sister for example just bought an asus machine that I suggested as staples had a pretty good deal and her 7 year desktop really needed replacement. She is one of the people who must run a Windows machine so the specs are more demanding yet her 2TB HD is extreme overkill as she might need 20GB between the OS, MS Office and whatnot. I am willing to bet that in 2018 when she replaces this machine that the vast majority of her machine will be empty. Thus the tiny storage capacity of a Chromebook should be little detriment to most. But the better construction and lighter weight are far more important features that make the chromebook comparable to staples machines priced closer to $1000 as most of the sub $1000 stapes machines are clunky with cheap features such the split left shift key and load of bloatware. The same with many of the other lesser features of the chromebook as compared to "better" machines; most of the features where the chromebook is lesser are unimportant. The fact that at a glance the thing looks like a macbook won't hurt sales at all. So for anyone to be surprised that the chromebook is kicking ass is a surprise to me.

I am willing to bet that the MBA-types at places like HP are scratching their heads saying HP entry models are better than that damn thing as they go through a check list of how their machines are so much better feature for feature not realizing that 98% of customers don't even know what RAM does but their customers do know what they like when they see a friend with one and see that it runs a HD youtube video just as smoothly as the HP machine that has way more "L2 Cache".

The other thing that the MBA types are not realizing is that they are no longer competing with the laptop next to theirs in the display section of Staples or Best Buy but they are competing with the cell phone in the person's pocket.

Re:Targeted customers

[SteveFoerster]

It measn "crown" in those various Klingon dialects.

Re:Another kick in the balls for Intel. Thanks ARM

[bluefoxlucid]

AMD is turning into the chip for Linux this round. Bulldozer has a big, mixed TLB for any size page; while Linux allows you to set automatic defragmentation and consolidation of RAM to make transparent huge pages. This means instead of reading a bunch of TLB entries for 4KiB pages and yanking 32MB of RAiM just to read 1GiB of RAM and having a 64 entry TLB that has to constantly rotate out cache because you're all over the place, Linux will automatically take 2MiB or 4MiB (or on some platforms a very wide range, 2MiB 4MiB 8MiB 16MiB) of VMA and clear out a 2MB aligned contiguous physical RAM space, move the VMA mappings there, and then map those as one big page. Upon swapping or freeing or whatnot, Linux will remap the whole thing as a bunch of smaller pages--on multi-size archs (i.e. where you have not just 4MiB huge pages, but also 2MiB and 8MiB and such), it'll break them down into smaller huge pages; anything that doesn't work out that way, it'll break into 4096 byte pages.

64KiB instead of 32MiB of data to read to access those pages; and there's as low as 256 entries instead of 4096 entries, so even if you're all over the place it's a lot less TLB faulting and a much higher chance of finding the same entry in cache. Redhat's worst case benchmark was an 8% speed gain using automatic transparent huge page.

Intel added support for 1GB huge pages, but didn't add a mixed TLB that takes an entry for any size page. AMD's TLB on Bulldozer (this is entirely internal and its structure is not known by the OS) marks down the page size; Intel has a separate TLB to handle a few huge pages, and you can only use one size.

The major difference is the applications

[sjbe]

What is the major difference between Windows 7/8 and XP or a Linux distro? Just the GUI

I truly wish that was the major difference. If that was all that was different I would have switched our company away from Windows years ago and so would many others. The major difference is the applications and that is the only difference that truly matters. If everything was written cross-platform, then you would have a credible argument.

For better or worse there are a LOT of applications (including games) that only run on Windows and it remains sadly true that there often are no acceptable replacements. Our accounting software, MRP software, CAD software and some others simply are not available on linux, nor is there any acceptable substitute. We use LibreOffice, GIMP, Scribus, Inkscape, Chrome, Thunderbird, VNC, and more but there simply is no way we could get rid of our Windows boxes in the near future because of the applications we need to use. The moment there is a linux version of Quickbooks Enterprise and a compatible MRP system, I'd dump windows that minute but that simply isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future.

Re:The major difference is the applications

[steveg]

There's a tiny little outfit called Autodesk that publishes this minor little package called AutoCAD. *I've* never been able to find a Linux version of it -- in fact, even their license manager (which is built on FlexLM, a predominantly Unix server product) is Windows only.

If you could point me to a Linux version of AutoCAD, I'd be forever grateful. But I'm not holding my breath.

I've heard that Solidworks is the up and coming CAD package, eclipsing AutoCAD. Also Windows only.

Which "big boys" in the CAD arena have Linux versions?

Re:The major difference is the applications

[hairyfeet]

You sir should be upmodded to a thousand, because this is something I've been trying to get the Linux advocates to understand for years...you HAVE to have Quickbooks, the SMBs live or die by Quickbooks and frankly the few ersatz FOSS programs out there trying to fit that niche are as bad a replacement as Gimp is a suitable replacement for Photoshop for graphics professionals.

I don't know how many SMBs I have that have their entire company, from inventory to accounting to taxes, run by a "Quickbooks girl" (and for some reason its almost ALWAYS a girl, you'd think they had a union or something) that everybody just hands the paperwork to and she takes care of the entire company. You really can't compare any other product to it, you really can run a whole business just with this one product and having it Windows only really is a deal breaker for Linux in the SMB market.

Re:Targeted customers

[Ost99]

"Kronar" is a common misspelling when writing Nynorsk (new Norwegian).
The monetary unit is called kroner in both Norwegian languages; but the coins are (sometimes) called {value}kronar in new Norwegian (tikronar - has a value of 10 kroner).

Confusing.

Re:Targeted customers

[blackest_k]

I'm surprised I'm mostly agreeing with you but you are wrong on one count, chromebooks are not locked down to the people who want to get out of the garden.

Chromebooks have a developer mode which allows you to dualboot linux and chrome os.
For mum and dad a walled garden of a mostly self administrating system is very appealing log into your gmail account enter the password for the router (its written on a label on the back of the router) and thats it setup.
compare that user experience with the one that you go through with windows all the trialware, hardsell and the rest its scary.

I bet you are asked everyday if you will setup a new windows machine for someone mostly because of that preinstalled junk.

What Google has wisely chosen to do is allow for an alternative Linux install for those people who want a bit more than the chromebook offers. For years people have been ripping out windows or moving to dualboot systems so they can scratch their itch.

Foolishly Microsoft has made an error in judgement which I think they may regret. I can't run Linux on an arm based windows system and its become a major pain to install on an x86 system with secureboot.
However Google is giving me options the chromebook is open to me to install Linux and do the stuff I want to do.

Maybe you should be looking to sell Chromebooks, perhaps even offer an alternative install. Mum and Dad won't care about the alternative but some of the kids might. I wouldn't be too surprised if steam makes it onto chrome os in the next year too, wouldn't that be ideal.

Pirating software so I can do on Windows what I can do for free on Linux is not an acceptable option. I think if i'm going to buy a laptop in the next 12 months it will be a chromebook. Don't give a monkeys about chromeOS same as for windows but I will have a nice bit of hardware to do with as I please and no microsoft tax.

           

How are Android apps ported to Chrome?

[tepples]

but with all the thousands of Android apps ported to Chrome

How exactly does this work, apart from applications built with Cordova or its predecessor PhoneGap? Android applications are written in the Java programming language or an NDK language or both, not JavaScript, which is what Chrome apps use. So how are Android apps ported to Chrome?

Not heavily advertised?

[jader3rd]

I was under the impression it was heavily advertised. I don't remember what show my spouse was watching a few nights ago, but a Chromebook ad was part of every ad break. Given how little we watch stuff, from my experience the Chromebook is heavily advertised.