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Ask Slashdot: How To React To Coworker Who Says My Code Is Bad?
A week ago, you read the other side of the same question. Now, an anonymous reader writes "I have been with my company for 10+ years and have seen many development cycles on our projects. We have a developer intern who has not been on the team for very long. On day one he started ripping into my code on how terrible it is. We have a code base of roughly 50,000 lines of code. When he comes to me with a complaint about the code it is simply because he does not have the experience with it to actually understand what the code is doing. He is a smart guy with lots of promise, he is asking good questions, but how do I get him to look past his own self perceived greatness enough to slow down and learn what we are doing and how we have pulled it off?"
After all, he's fresh from a CS program where they taught him everything.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
This is an ancient problem, with 10 years experience I'm amazed you haven't run into this constantly throughout your entire career. New guys (even old guys) perceive everything they didn't write as shit.
How you deal with it is dependent on a lot of things.
First: is he right? Maybe your code does suck. Hell maybe you suck! At minimum. code that has been around for a while, has been written by multiple people over a long period of time, been adjusted and re-worked to meet changing requirements, and been done under a deadline usually does suck at least a little. Admitting this is hard.
New guys want to re-write everything and don't understand the value of code maturity... most of the time a re-write isn't practical, and even the shittiest code usually attains remarkable stability by virtue of having all the bugs pounded out through years of use. Reminding him that this isn't a university project and a certain level of ugliness should be expected might help.
If you don't think he's right, learn how to properly describe why you do things the way you did, and conversely expect him to explain why they are wrong. This is the biggest thing to learn when doing code reviews, and applies here. If you can't objectively describe what is wrong using with references to either standard or internal best practices or conventions, arguing code ugliness just becomes subjective. If you want to defend your code, learn how to describe how it doesn't suck.
Having some company guidelines will really help, because it gives you something to point at in defending a decision. Ultimately what one guy considers good code may be considered bad by another. You are always going to have cases where someone thinks your code is too abstract, or not abstract enough, or sacrifices too much performance for maintainability, or too much maintainability for performance. At least with standards, the new devs will rail against the standards rather than personally attack you, and a standards document is a lot easier to defend (and yet still allows good changes without too much politics of hurt feelings).
Critique is only as good as the suggestions for improvement. So, that's your answer. I feel that if someone has issues with my code, then show me better and prove me it is better. In the end, clarity, code reuse, design patterns, performance, all of these things come to play.
Take a step back and seriously consider his criticism, as if he were one of your 10+ year coworkers. Whether or not he's right informs the right reaction.
Firing him might be the best lesson he ever learns...
You Are Not Your Code: http://sstephenson.us/posts/you-are-not-your-code
Ask Slashdot: How Can I Explain To a Coworker That He Writes Bad Code?
Might as well close the forum down, this is gonna be the best answer concerning this issue. if only I had mod points
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
outside, at the gate.
And a follow up question: do you have any internship openings?
Seriously, if he was hired as an intern I take it he has little/no real experience, and may not have even finished his formal education. He thinks your code is bad because it doesn't look like the code of whatever professor he most admired in school, or it violates some rule of some particular coding sect that he subscribes to. Tell him to write his objections down in a safe place, and come back to them after a year of working "for Real" and you will gladly sit down and listen to what he has to say then.
I would be as blunt, harsh and straightforward back to him, as he is was me, were I in your shoes. I might add a few nails to the coffin of the argument.
Him: "Your code sucks."
Me: "Back it up. What suck why."
Him: *explanation*
Me: "Well, I can understand you not realizing X, Y, and Z, being new and ignorant, but give it a few years."
Him: "Why'd do you do [pattern X, Y, Z]? Isn't it better to do [pattern A, B, C]?"
Me: "In certain circumstances, sure, but in [insert current circumstances and logic for X, Y, Z], this methodology works better."
Put him in his place if he needs it, otherwise, just educate. Also, listen - just because he's less experienced than you doesn't mean he hasn't picked up something useful. I know a lot of people who think they don't have anything to learn from the new guy, when the new guy had a few tricks up his sleeve. I've been one of those people who's learned from the new guy he didn't suspect. I've also been the new guy with unsuspected tricks.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
*ducks*
Recently went through this myself. Despite having used a kanban board, used version control, commented code, written unit tests, etc, some junior devs thought the code sucked. My takeaway was that there were still too many barriers to entry. Too many passwords, not enough installation instructions, etc.
Somewhere in the process of learning to write production ready code, it occurred to me that it was necessary to work the process backwards. Begin a project by setting up your hosting or distribution environment before starting to code. Write unit tests before starting to code. And so forth.
Getting other people to contribute to your project requires the same kind of thinking. Set up a project page before you start to code. Write a vision statement before you start to code. Write installation instructions, coding style guidelines, and operations support instructions before you start to code. That way, as you proceed in the project, you have clearly build up the documentation that other people are going to need to join your project. These things shouldn't be started after the fact.
If you can't point a new dev to a website and say 'download the source and instructions' here, it's probably too complicated and will meet resistance.
From your description, the guy isn't mean spirited. He's likely never had to deal with multiple revision code bases before.
On the other hand, if this is code that has been through multiple revisions and re-purposes, admit to yourself -- it probably is bad. I'm the lead engineer and dir. engineering at a company I've been at for 10+ years, and I'll be the first to tell you that the code-base I am most proud of (30-50k lines of embedded/DSP code, mostly mine) is TERRIBLE! I wouldn't wish that code-base on my worst enemy. But its also been bread and butter for the company for the last decade and is stretched to its limit.
We've had at least two hotshots come onto the project in that time who have been terrified seeing that code-base and declaimed it as schizophrenic at best, and they are right. It is bad code, poor coding practices, and everything else bread out of necessity to keep the project(s) going and alive.
Your mission -- accept that whatever reasons are out there for the code being the way that it is, it probably is poorly structured and could use a rewrite. SO - this is a good chance for him to learn that not every bit of code that should be rewritten can be. Its called business reasons and experience. Whatever the reasons, you probably, as a company, don't have the time or resources to rewrite from scratch (we surely don't!), but a fresh out of school developer probably has not experienced these -non-engineering- reasons for bad code, and certainly was not there for the blood, sweat, and tears that went into them. He won't know about those all nighters that "saved the company" that you and the rest of the team probably went through en-route to this codebase.
Ask him how he would do it, and be genuinely interested in his response. Maybe he just wants to beat his chest a little, and maybe he'll even say something useful.
I'm sure if he re-reads your internal design specifications, coding standards, and comments in the code he will understand your design.
It's also possible the younger coder learned a trick developed since the older coder got his skills fairly solidified, and the older coder never saw, or came up with in his own experiences.
Just because the new guy is disagreeing and less experienced, doesn't make him wrong. Yes, 9 times out of 10, the new, less experienced guy will be wrong, but that 1 time out of 10, makes it worth giving the other 9 times a fair hearing as well.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
. . . are really just not satisfied with themselves.
Give him a copy of "The Psychology of Computer Programming", and tell him to read the bit about egoless programming . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
yep.
What next? "I am some code. How do I tell my new maintainers they suck?"
Signature v3.0, now with 42% less memory usage.
This questioner says he's been at the company 10 years and the new kid is hassling him. That prior question says the guy he's hassling has been at the company longer than the hassler has been alive. If they've hired a 9 year old as a coder then they deserve all the atttitude they get.
As an engineer, I've adopted the maxim that there is no good and bad, only fitness for a particular purpose. I prefer a discussion of trade-offs to statements of principle.
I tend to ask "what requirements does this code fail to meet?" And very often, the reviewer has invented his own new requirement! Depending on your process, your response might be anything from "good point, let's add a test case for that" to "you should submit a Requirements Change Form for that. Make sure to get all the required signatures."
And if the criticism is for something immeasurable like "readability" or "maintainability" you can let your critic make the case to the boss why fixing this code is worth the cost.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
"You dare insult my code!? I'll kill you where you stand!"
I've said this at several workplaces:
What the Business values:
1. Correctness
2. Reliability
3. Maintainability
4. Speed
5. Coolness
What the Developer values:
1. Coolness
2. Speed
3. Correctness
4. Maintainability
5. Reliability
Don't believe me? Look at practically ANY open source project. Most are unreliable and impossible to contribute to. They are often incorrect, but they are usually fast and the programmer always thinks what he's doing is mega-cool.
Developers need to adjust their mindset to be valuable to the business, but sadly most business code looks more like the second list than the first.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
We always see bad code as technical debt and treat it as debt. When we have cycles we pay it off, when we don't we get some more.
Having been doing this for 12+ years, I have come to realise I have never liked anyone's code and figured out its more of a style or personality than bad or good. Yes there is bad code, but there is no good code per say. Or put another way, if done right its good and you and I still may not like it.
Its just the nature of the beast, its kind of like driving a car, all other drivers seem bad.
That's easy.
Perform a Core Dump.
Years ago I worked with a senior guy who was very good but very critical of everyone else's code, often for poor reasons. One day I showed him some code and asked his opinion. He starts ripping on it and asks me why I did it that way. I reply "You tell me, this is your stuff from a couple years ago.".
The answer is really simple:
Step 1) Hire a second, unpaid, intern
Step 2) Give all the current responsibilities the 1st intern has to the 2nd intern
Step 3) Have the 1st intern do nothing but beautify your existing code, with the understanding that he can't change how any of it is written.
"How can I stop my employees from fighting over who's the best coder?
I don't care about code one way or another. I own a bakery, all I care about is selling bread. I just hired this CS college dropout because he was my cousin's nephew and I owed him a favor, and the kid turned out to be a good employee. Even suggested we bought a computer for keeping our budget electronically, and that worked out well. So, as I was satisfied with this somewhat bright kid, when I had to replace our janitor, I hired a second CS dropout. The problem is they started disagreeing right away about the most irrelevant things you can imagine and now they bicker all the time, have heated, uncivlized arguments about who is the better coder, what sort of software license works best, their choice of cellphone and whatnot. It's really disturbing the workflow around here. Nothing works properly anymore. For example, I never know whether my computer will have LibreOffice or MS Office installed, which means that at any given day I can open only about half my files properly. My customers are also placing complaints and I'm fed up with the food fights they cause. Can someone tell me how to make them stop or, at least, how to properly discern compatible nerds in the future?"