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Better Tools For Programming Literacy

waderoush writes "Adam Wiggins, co-founder of Heroku, agrees with anthropologist Bonnie Nardi that programming isn't just for geeks. The problem, he says, is that today's tools for teaching programming are woefully inadequate. In a commentary, Wiggins argues that there are two major gaps preventing programming tools from being accessible to beginners: 1) they're too fussy, requiring extensive setup, and 2) they're focused on the technology rather than everyday tasks. A good tool for learning programming, Wiggins argues, would emulate an Excel or Google Docs spreadsheet – beginners would be able to fire it up instantly, and would be able to get useful things done right away. (He's dismissive, though, of visual programming tools that 'attempt to hide logic behind a point-and-click interface.') 'Broad programming literacy is crucial in a world increasingly made of computers,' Wiggins says. 'Despite common stereotypes, programming is not out of reach for the average person,' as long as the tools are easy to set up and specialized on the programmer's task."

19 of 317 comments (clear)

  1. Yes, it is out of reach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    People can't program the VCR clock. (For the young ones: Back in the old days we called the Tivo "VCR". Just like everything must have a camera today, back then everything had to had a clock, and it had to be set manually.) You can barely teach (most) people algorithms that aren't completely linear. If you think you can teach them to develop algorithms, you need to get back in the trenches and deal with normal people. Developing programs means to understand problems in depth and to correctly answer a lot of "what-if" questions about complex systems. Normal people actively try to avoid doing that kind of thinking.

    1. Re:Yes, it is out of reach by eulernet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is because people are not interested into the problem, they are only interested by the solution.

      And this is true for everybody: personally, I don't really care about how my car works, I just want that it works.
      When it does not work, I go to a garage to solve my problem.

      Trying to simplify programming will only give a false sense of expertise, because REAL programming is tough: it's about solving abstract problems.

      No matter the difficulty of the subject, there will always be people who are interested in understanding, and people who don't care (even if it's simple).
      So I would prefer that, instead of training people who don't care about programming, we train people who are interested into programming.

      And the best tool to make people interested into programming is games, because a lot of programmers started programming because they wanted to write their own game.

    2. Re:Yes, it is out of reach by slimjim8094 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The VCR clock was required to set up a scheduled recording, so hardly pointless. People wanted to be able to do that, but couldn't because they couldn't figure it out. I think the gp's example holds

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  2. I agree that programming is not for geeks by gweihir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is a far more demanding task that "geek" would qualify you. It requires talent, education and experience. Those that gripe about the tools do not get it or have never gotten beyond toy examples. Sure, a better tool helps. But when you create software (as opposed to slapping together some disaster waiting happen), the direct level of skill needed to use the tools is actually a minor concern. In fact, the language used is a minor concern, the problem is what matters. Insofar I even agree with the article. But refusing tools that are a bit complicated is the hallmark of somebody that does not get it.

    Case in point: Pen and paper are exceedingly difficult to use for writing. Yet we spend years on every person to qualify them to use it. Yet compare the complexity of pen&paper on one side, and a computer on the other side. Anybody expecting the computer to be easier to use just has no clue at all.

    All that "simple" to use tools for software creation do is cause even more really bad programs to be written, as suddenly everybody and their grandmother thinks they can do it. Like giving calligraphy pens to amateurs. Sure, they can produce some smears, but they cannot produce anything worthwhile.

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    1. Re:I agree that programming is not for geeks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullshit. Programming still is *piss-easy* compared to our actual mental abilities. Everyone of us does all the stuff you need for it in daily life anyway:

      Everyone of us uses the concept of identifiers (think variables), when we say “he" instead of "Jim", or even "Jim" instead of shoving that person in front of your eyes.
      Everyone of us uses the concept of sequences of commands, when making a to-do list.
      Everyone of us uses has no problem with including tasks into that to-do list, that themselves are a set of steps one could write down somewhere else.
      Everyone of us is able to say "Do this 10 times.", "Do this for all people in the room.", or "Until you have at least $1000, keep on saving.".
      Everyone of us is able to make lists, use property lists (dating site profiles, etc), handle tree structures (company hierarchies, file systems), and even more complex ones.
      Everyone of us uses grouping (think modules) all the time in daily life. It's part of how our brain works, to group things into classes.
      Everyone of us can use and understand the concept of expressions, when we read and write recipes. (Which essentially are programs: dinner = [(simmerFor (10 min) (add [cream,whiteWine,(dried chickenBroth),nutmeg,(piecesOf broccoli),salt,pepper,garlic] (fried (chopped chickenBreast)))) + ((cookedIn saltWater (8 min)) tagiatelle), readyMadeGarlicyFriseeSalad ].)
      You do the next one.

      There is absolutely nobody with a normal working brain who can't program. With the right interface and presentation, your grandma can program medium-sized software packages, no problem.

      And most importantly: There's nothing wrong with small shitty scripts grown from one-off one-liners.a

    2. Re:I agree that programming is not for geeks by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't confuse programming with software engineering. The latter does require a good deal of talent, education and experience. But programming? I agree with the author that many people can learn, given the opportunity and the right tools.

      Case in point: my high school taught a (somewhat unusual) computer class; this was in the mid-80s in what you might call a good high school (the Dutch high school system is divided in levels, the highest being "pre-university education" which was the level of my high school). The class consisted of some basic computer science (what is a computer, CPU, I/O bus, etc) as well as hands on programming in BASIC. This was a mandatory class which meant that we had a mix of geeks and non-geeks sitting in, but pretty much everyone was able to grasp the basic concepts of computing, logic, and programming, to the point were students were able to translate simple problems into working programs. Does this produce useful programmers? No, but it helps getting more people interested in the field, and in my current line of work I can see a clear difference between people who have had such a basic education in computing, and those who haven't. For people in IT who aren't actual software engineers, it's still useful to know a little bit about computers and programming.

      To achieve this, having the right tools is important. Complex tools may be necessary when writing complex software, and a software engineer refusing to master complex tools because they are complex is silly, but for a beginner, complexity distracts them from what they are actually learning: writing a program. That's why BASIC is still a good tool for teaching laymen about computers; it might not be a very elegant language with stuff like GOTO, but beginners can have a working program up and running in minutes, doing simple input and output. Contrast that with something like C, which requires you to set up and master a compiler first, which is no easy task for someone just starting to program.

      Your example of writing is a good one. Like programming, this too is something worthwhile to teach to the masses, and many are able to gain a basic proficiency in it. But you woudln't give a calligraphy pen (or a complex programming tool) to an amateur, you give them a BIC pen (or something like BASIC) so they can master the basics of the art without having to learn advanced tools as well.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:I agree that programming is not for geeks by slim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You could learn to do cryptic crosswords. Most clues are modelled around a handful of patterns; general knowledge is a barrier, but you can allow yourself Wikipedia.

      Your grandma could learn to program; it might not be worth it, depending on her age and ambitions.

      All of these skills are learnt, learning takes time, and it's an opportunity cost. If I'd spent less time learning to code, I might have spent it learning to draw, or practising guitar, and I'd be better at those things. That's not about mental ability; it's about choice of specialisation.

    4. Re:I agree that programming is not for geeks by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You fail to see the problem. What you describe is the "primitives" of a simple programming language. Understanding them does not help you write software of any meaningful complexity. Your argument akin to saying somebody that can carry around a brick and put it somewhere is able to build a house that is comfortable and durable. Not so, rather obviously.

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    5. Re:I agree that programming is not for geeks by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As I said, there is a mechanical component, namely interfacing the tools. It is a minor part of the whole. You can learn to play the guitar all you like, you will never be a good jazz-guitarist or guitar composer unless you have quite a bit of talent. Sure, you can plunk the strings and may even be able to play sheet-music with some degree of accuracy. But that is not worth a lot.

      The architecture and design of software is not something you can learn this way. Algorithmic is not. And the real-world problem analysis skills required to have your software actually solve a problem are not either.

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    6. Re:I agree that programming is not for geeks by slim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But TFA isn't about everyone becoming Donald Knuth.

      Millions of people derive great satisfaction from mediocre guitar skills (I know people who get a lot of pleasure from their guitars, who can hardly keep rhythm). There's a class of people who could get value from *very* basic programming skills.

      Difficult problems are difficult to solve, and require talent, experience and insight.
      Easy problems are easy to solve, and don't require as much talent, experience or insight.

      Example: an artist using Photoshop decides he needs 20 layers in progression of shades. Creating each layer takes 8 mouse clicks, including a fiddly colour dialogue. Or, he could write a for() loop in some scripting language or other, and create the layers in a few seconds -- and add the tiny script to their arsenal for reuse.

  3. Pure Data by pedestrian+crossing · · Score: 4, Informative

    I just started experimenting Pure Data, and it is an example of an environment that does this quite well. Although it can be very complex when you dig down into it, it's very easy to get started with and create useful objects without the "fuss" that TFA talks about.

    --
    A house divided against itself cannot stand.
  4. What is it with this idea nowadays by Shinmera · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems to me that a great deal of people have this idea in their heads that any and everyone is able to do any and everything. This is bollocks.
    Furthermore, blaming the inability to get interested in something or to cross a certain difficulty barrier on the tools is just laughable.

    If one can't take the first step in programming and get acquainted to the tools, he won't be able to make the later steps either. It takes commitment and interest. Reducing the first barrier won't bring a lot better programmers, it will bring in a lot more bad programmers that get stuck half way through and don't really help anyone.

  5. Pointless article by gigaherz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's saying programming is not as simple as Excel because programming doesn't have an equivalent of the SUM() function that does almost all the work for you when you are new to it.

    Yet, excel never tells you that you have to use the SUM function, or that A:A means the whole A column, or that $1$3 means it shouldn't change the row/column when spreading the formulas. But he wants the development environment to somhow not require knowledge of how a loop works, or what an array is?

    The problem isn't that programming is harder than Excel, at least not if you use a full-featured IDE with a decent language, like Visual Studio with C# 4.0. You can learn to drag a few controls to a new window, double-click on a button, and write something like "MesageBox.Show(textBox1.Text);" in seconds. No knowledge of arrays or functions necessary.

    Programming is NOT harder than excel, and there ARE tools that make it as easy as possible. Anything else requires "visual programming" which he states he doesn't want, either. But of course, excel doesn't "hide the logic" from you, right?

    The fact is, you need some basic knowledge to do any job. Excel requires knowing the syntax and function names, so does general-purpose programming, just like you need to know the parts of a car, and their use, if you ever want to build one from scratch.

  6. Re:So what they're really asking for... by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Informative

    Like an old boss of mine used to say, "They want a fucking big red arrow that points to the answer"

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  7. Re:So what they're really asking for... by slim · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm not sure he knows what he's asking for, but I think I know what might address his concerns, and it's basically more embedded languages in apps that people use.

    Lots of people learned simple procedural programming with Word/Excel macros. Record a macro, look at the code generated, amend it. Now some people do it with VBA, but I'd say that VBA is more hidden than the old macro language was.

    He says people respond "OK, that's cool but what could I use it for?" - and the answer is anything repetitive or mundane that you find yourself doing at a computer. If you find yourself repeatedly going through the same sequence of clicks, a coder thinks "I want to automate this loop". A non-coder just accepts the drudgery.

    The Raspberry Pi version of Minecraft can be automated with Python. Anyone who's laboriously built something brick-by-brick, click-by-click in Minecraft out to be impressed by a few lines of Python doing the same job in the blink of an eye. We need more apps that work like that. We need to get to the point where people demand it.

  8. Programming by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have to agree. I've always said that 50% of modern programming is having the right tools, and the right tools configured correctly.

    Introduce someone to C. Now explain that even though C is standardised, there's no "standard" way to compile a C program, to port a Makefile, to have a program compile the same everywhere without manual work ensuring so, or even to start debugging. And then show then a Visual C++ project file and tell them they have to manage it and make sure it works even if their primary platform isn't Visual C++.

    It can get horrendous. Sure, most Linux installs come with gcc set up and you can compile a basic C file and get a basic executable (called a.out with NO OUTPUT to tell you that, for stupid historical reasons, which still blows my mind), but anything beyond that and you're learning the tools more than the language.

    I personally have a deep-set hatred of Makefiles. I honestly can't stand them as a programmer and avoid them like the plague. I get the C preprocessor inside-out and can fancy macro tricks that amaze even me, but I can't be bothered with Makefiles and their separate, unrelated, horrendous syntax. But as a user, they are great when I just want to make a simple change and then recompile without fussing about where my compiler path is, etc. All their alternatives? I have the same problem, but at least plain Makefiles work the same everywhere if they are well-written.

    Even IDE's only mask those same details and thus cause more problems. Standard debugging of a problem for a beginner is to google the error messages from the compiler / linker because it really is that atrocious to try to understand what they actually mean.

    I have a large C project on the go at the moment. It's several dozen code and header files and the same again in associated resources, etc. It took me an hour to work out how to stop it uploading the resource files to the SVN repository and even now I can break it when I add a new resource file without meaning to. It's a nightmare that only compiles because the IDE generates a hidden makefile, runs it through MinGW's make tools and then runs MinGW's gcc to get it to compile / link. I gave up about the five-object-file mark of trying to compile it myself but in other projects with other people's code, I've literally deleted the Makefile and wrote a bash script to do the job instead, they were that horrendous to understand.

    Debugging is also a major bugbear. I know how to load a file into gdb, set a breakpoint, execute it and inspect variable values. Manually. And that's it. I don't even know what half the commands on the menus are supposed to be used for or the correct syntax to make them work and it's not like I haven't tried. Debugging is best done through an IDE that does it for you (still using gdb) and even then the tool doesn't get everything right (I often get out-of-sync line numbers when single-stepping through a program in Eclipse).

    I have taught beginners programming since I was a teenager, and it's only got harder. If I was to write a book on, say, C now, I would feel obliged to supply a disk and include a chapter on how to find the compiler setup program, how to install it, etc. so that I could be consistent throughout the book knowing they were using the same tools and the same versions so I could show them how to debug, etc. Just saying "compile this hello world" can be a book in itself, depending on their background, experience, and computer setup.

    I frequent a C programming board and most of the problems I see are people using obsolete tools (e.g. Turbo C presumably because it's "free" and their instructors were trained on it), or no tools at all (i.e. no capability to debug, manually typing in compile-lines, etc.).

    The next most common set of problems is not understanding how to use those tools or interpret their errors ("_main is undefined", etc.). The next set is not understanding how to write something that doesn't give a compile warning/error (usually because they've star

  9. Re:Problem-solving... by feedayeen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Considering that a basic devkit like Eclipse (sufficient to write a lot of Java code) can be set up by downloading, unzipping and double clicking on the file with the colorful picture, I can only concur.

    You are missing a few steps, like installing the JDK and possibly installing the JRE, figuring out what the heck this workspace thing is. The Hello, World example you copied from the Internet also doesn't work because the package doesn't match. Congratulations, Hello, World compiles in Eclipse, but you want to see it as a standalone program. You click on your .java or .class file, 'Windows can't open this file'. After googling the problem, you find out that you need to run it from the command prompt by typing "java hello.class" so you become comfortable with cd.. until you get to your workspace and find the 'bin' folder. You try it, 'java can not be found or recognized'. Now you have to add the jdk to the path.

  10. Re:So what they're really asking for... by telchine · · Score: 4, Funny

    Other requirements from what I gather are a one-click install and a Microsoft Bob equivalent to ask what you want to achieve.

    Maybe they could reintroduce Clippy... "I see you're writing a kernel!"

  11. Why Can't Programmers.. Program? by gweihir · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Jeff Atwood has some very nice observations about this from the real world. Also highly entertaining:

    - http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html
    - http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/02/the-nonprogramming-programmer.html

    One claim is that 199 out of 200 people applying for a coding job cannot code at all. The examples given are hilarious (or deeply depressing) and there is every reason to believe the observations described. Some of the links are also eminently worthwhile.

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