Slashdot Mirror


Julian Assange Pans WikiLeaks Movie

As reported by news.com.au, Julian Assange has seen leaked copies of the script of an upcoming film depicting WikiLeaks, and blasts it as inaccurate propaganda. He says, among other things, "They tried to frame Iran as having an active nuclear weapons program. Then they try to frame WikiLeaks as the reason why that's not known to the public now." Says the article: "Assange declined to say where he got the script, although he hinted that he had been supplied with several copies of it over time. He also declined to say whether the script would be posted to the WikiLeaks website, saying only that "we are examining options closely.'"

68 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. blasts an by nimbius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    upcoming film depicting wikileaks

    I have bad news, but films are designed to sell advertising, tickets, and concessions food in that order. you dont achieve all these things by making an accurate depiction of a subject matter, you sensationalize it. among other things patently false in several other films:
    1. Abraham lincoln, neither vampire hunter nor martial arts expert
    2. transformers: cars do not in fact transform into killer robots.
    3. Jurrasic park: while UNIX is in fact quite useful in the administration of automated SCADA systems, no such systems have been constructed to date for the express purpose of housing genetically cloned dinosaurs, which also do not exist.
    4. zero dark thirty: "terror" is in fact not something a nation can declare war on or successfully claimed to have emerged the victor from.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:blasts an by _KiTA_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      upcoming film depicting wikileaks

      I have bad news, but films are designed to sell advertising, tickets, and concessions food in that order. you dont achieve all these things by making an accurate depiction of a subject matter, you sensationalize it. among other things patently false in several other films:

      1. Abraham lincoln, neither vampire hunter nor martial arts expert

      2. transformers: cars do not in fact transform into killer robots.

      3. Jurrasic park: while UNIX is in fact quite useful in the administration of automated SCADA systems, no such systems have been constructed to date for the express purpose of housing genetically cloned dinosaurs, which also do not exist.

      4. zero dark thirty: "terror" is in fact not something a nation can declare war on or successfully claimed to have emerged the victor from.

      Ya know, I think I'd watch a parody movie about Wikileaks. One where Assange is a Cyborg Ninja from the 45th century, sent back to save the world from what the United States will become. But not while he's still alive. I guess I'm saying that my descendants would probably enjoy that movie.

      But 1, 2, 3 -- those are obviously based on fantasy. Not reality. This movie is ostensibly based on real people, real events. That puts it in a different light. It is held in a higher standard.

      Imagine a movie about Linus Torvalds, where he's portrayed as actively attempting to destroy America's economy by being a socialist communist pink fascist obsessed with "stealing" from American programmers, who put up a valiant and noble fight against him. Would suck, wouldn't it?

      As for #4, having not seen the latest "Rah Rah War is Awesome" movie there, nor do I really intend to. (I try to not support political assassination whenever possible.) I can only say that your comment on Zero Dark Thirty seems like more of a statement of fact about a real life policy enacted by the Bush Administration and continued by the Obama administration.

      Don't get me wrong, Zero Dark Thirty is probably the closest thing in that list to being relevant, but you miss a bigger point -- 0DT takes a very disgusting pro-torture stance, which is pure propaganda bordering on outright fantasy.

      We caught Bin Laden DESPITE using torture, not BECAUSE of it.

    2. Re:blasts an by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have worse news. That movie comes from the propaganda factory of the powers that be, exactly the ones that want to imprint into public opinion that Wikileaks is something evil that only spread lies. Not exactly surprised about what Assagne said about it.

    3. Re:blasts an by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We KNOW this because of testimony from the CIA operatives who worked with the captives who provided information about Osama.

      In short, they tortured people suspected of knowing important information, and those "informants" gave up shit for intel. They'd say ANYTHING they thought the torturers wanted to hear. And, it was useless.

      AFTER all the torturing was finished, different operatives approached the same "informants" in a more friendly manner, and basically bribed useful information from the "informants". Promises of better treatment, promises of religious practice, a little sympathy, a little empathy, share a smoke - the little things that denote that you recognize a man as a man, and that you respect him.

      FFS, parents who are worthy of that title can tell you that they can tease information from their children far more readily than they can threaten it or beat it out of them.

      Our own experiences in Viet Nam demonstrated quite clearly that our guys would, eventually, tell their torturers anything that the torturers wanted to hear. And, our guys fed the Viet Cong garbage for the most part. The interrogator wants to hear about troop concentrations, complete with equipment lists? Fine, spout some nonsense at them, transpose numbers, inflate some, deflate others, blah blah blah.

      Everyone has a breaking point, but the interrogator is only guessing at what that point is, and he's only guessing at the usefulness of the information he extracts.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    4. Re:blasts an by sheetsda · · Score: 4, Funny

      1. Abraham lincoln, neither vampire hunter nor martial arts expert

      [citation needed]

    5. Re:blasts an by zakkudo · · Score: 1, Troll

      Are you sure they weren't doing the well known, "good cop, bad cop"? I do not think the order of torture, then bribery is random at all. The torturing effects how someone responds to bribery later. There really is no in spite of. It's just the status quo.

    6. Re:blasts an by Maudib · · Score: 1

      Agreed. There is no clear data on this either way for obvious reasons.

    7. Re:blasts an by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      The "good cop, bad cop" routine does not require the use of torture. It only requires the THREAT of torture, or some other unpleasant things occurring. The routine is very effective, of course, in certain situations.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    8. Re:blasts an by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      When notable conservative warhawks like Nancy Pelosi bitch about Zero Dark Thirty's exaggerated US-handled torture scenes, you have to wonder.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    9. Re:blasts an by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not to mention we tortured people that anybody with a fucking brain would know wouldn't be told jack shit. We tortured the cab driver the Taliban grabbed and used to ferry around some of their high level guys...he was a fucking CAB DRIVER, do they think that the world works like a James Bond film? that the villain is just gonna monologue their plans to some dumb shit that doesn't have squat to do with anything? Of course not he was told "STFU and drive until I say stop" and that was it. It would be like torturing Romney's garbageman to find out what his campaign plans are, how the hell is he supposed to know this? You think he goes out for a beer with Romney or something?

      And THIS is why i'm so saddened and disgusted by the people in this country not saying shit about Assange and letting our leaders keep him locked in a room in that embassy because you read the shit that was posted on Wikileaks and its pretty damned obvious that several high level members of our government frankly should be brought up to the Hague for war crimes. Its disgusting the shit that our government and those hired by our government have been doing in these countries, shit just as evil as during the worst days of the Vietnam war (which you noticed the press didn't make shit about the government FINALLY coming clean and admitting The Gulf Of Tonkin was a false flag) only now the evil bastards at the top learned from their mistakes in Vietnam and simply bought up all the MSM. So now instead of anybody saying shit about this stream of information proving multiple war crimes we get "Assange is a dirty pervo rapist who need to be sent to Gitmo". you know what? I don't give a rat's ass if Assange spends his weekends pushing little old ladies down the stairs as HE ain't killing thousands of people and starting shit all over the planet!

      I urge everyone to watch the end of America by Naomi Wolf. She isn't some whacko here, she is a quiet little conservative Jewish girl (I personally think she is a little TOO conservative when it comes to the conclusions) who is now on the watchlist for daring to speak about our rights under the constitution. That's right folks, simply giving a lecture about what the declaration of independence and constitution says is enough to have you put on the list. In this video she shows several examples in history of free societies that became non free overnight, and she gives a step by step account of how it happens. She calls it the "universal playbook" that has been used by everyone from Stalin to Franco and watch how many of those plays are already either in motion here or have already been used. And one of the final steps she lists is a society creating a framework to where people can be tortured outside the rule of law. Why is this one of the last steps? Because it always starts small and gets bigger. Hitler started with only communists, Stalin started with the kulaks, in EVERY case she shows how these extra judicial systems grow like a cancer to cover more and more "undesirable elements".

      so we need to seriously wake the fuck up, stop letting the MSM divert us with bullshit like Assange and start demanding that they go after the big issues like the tortures, bombings, and all the other nasty evil shit that has been and is being done in our name and with our money.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 2

      It only requires the THREAT of torture

      It's generally considered a form of psychological torture to threaten to torture somebody. For example, from the Geneva Conventions:

      "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."

    11. Re:blasts an by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      That is quite clearly understood by most of us. However, I said, "It only requires the THREAT of torture, or some other unpleasant things occurring"

      In the good cop, bad cop scenario, the bad cop states that you're facing about twelve lifetimes in prison for your crimes, then the good cop comes in, offers you a coke and a cigarette, and offers to help you get your list of crimes reduced to only three lifetimes in prison.

      The bad cop hasn't done anything illegal, he's merely stretched the truth. That is the "some other unpleasant things". The good cop hasn't done anything illegal, he's merely validated that truth stretching, and offered to help you.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    12. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Your attempts to work around the principle remind me of "enhanced interrogation", and backpedaling to boot. You explicitly said, "THREAT of torture", which is explicitly forbidden. See how easy it is to become that which you hate?

    13. Re:blasts an by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      Reading comprehension, much?

      Go back, read it again. In fact, I copy pasted my original statement to respond to your post.

      "It only requires the THREAT of torture, or some other unpleasant things occurring"

      Must I draw a picture, color it, and label it for you? I'm opposed to torture. I'm opposed to "enhanced interrogation". I'm even opposed to the "good cop - bad cop" routine.

      Read my posts in this thread four or five times, or four or five hundred times if necessary. Nowhere can you find that I've rationalized, justified, approved of torture. I don't even attempt to redefine what torture consists of, to provide a loophole for the assholes to jump through.

      I despise the Bush administration based on two issues, more than all others combined.
      1: the invasion of Iraq, based on lies
      2: the use of torture

      I could provide you with a longer list, but those two issues will be on top.

      You will never find anyplace where I have approved of the use of torture, or the threat of torture.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    14. Re:blasts an by cffrost · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong, Zero Dark Thirty is probably the closest thing in that list to being relevant, but you miss a bigger point -- 0DT takes a very disgusting pro-torture stance, which is pure propaganda bordering on outright fantasy.

      I didn't get that impression. Further, on The Colbert Report on 2013-01-22, the director called torture "reprehensible," and indicated that the depictions were included in order to avoid whitewashing history.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    15. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Reading comprehension, much?

      Full of shit, much? You got caught in a bad position and are trying to weasel your way out of it.

      I'm even opposed to the "good cop - bad cop" routine.

      You didn't state that originally. What you tried to do, in two separate posts, is give a way that wasn't torture for the bad cop routine. Both times you clearly invoked the use of threats, and in the first post one of those threats was the use of torture (key word there being "or"). You can't say you can solve your problems by "evil thing or some other unpleasant things occurring" and pretend you didn't advocate evil thing.

      You will never find anyplace where I have approved of the use of torture, or the threat of torture.

      Except I did, in black and white.

    16. Re:blasts an by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      According to the US government and the US military is just requires the redefining of what is and is not torture. I though the current Uncle Tom Obama approved definition is 'No Permanent Organ Damage'. He must have approved it because there has been not attempt to prosecute for the repeated practice.

      There is very little to gain by interrogating a prisoner, you either have the evidence of a crime and the prosecution is valid or you are just fishing because you need to 'win' some prosecutions in order gain a promotion. The questioning should just furnish some additional details, otherwise things well inevitably get out of control, false confession will get forced, false witness against others for reduced sentences will occur, as well as of course falsely ramping up charges for a better reputation.

      As for the propaganda campaign against Wikileaks, obviously it is nothing more than an attack upon the truth. The battle between mass media propaganda and all independent news websites. There is always a price to be paid for propaganda hit pieces everyone associated with gets perceived as a quisling, a betrayers and has the public career crippled as a result.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    17. Re:blasts an by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Go back to school, chump. You are unequipped to engage in a battle of the wits. There's a community college near you that can help with your own personal set of disadvantages.

      There are times when I've failed to convey my thoughts properly, and a couple of times slashdotters have called me on it. When that happens, I am man enough to give them some kind of salute, and acknowledge that I have screwed up - whether I made a simple typo, or I typed to damned fast and allowed my fingers to get ahead of my brains. In a few cases, I simply didn't have all the facts, and even changed my perspective on an issue after another person presented me with links to more information.

      But, you, Sir, will have to learn to read before you earn a salute for catching me up. Maybe you could use Google, and enter my user name along with the word "torture". I've commented often, in many places. Go ahead, hit the WWW to find all the places where I've defended the Bush administration's use of torture.

      Hit that community college too - you'll be amazed what you can learn.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    18. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I see now that you have abandoned argument and resorted to ad hominem. Ho hum.

    19. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I though the current Uncle Tom Obama approved definition is 'No Permanent Organ Damage'. He must have approved it because there has been not attempt to prosecute for the repeated practice.

      You're wrong. There was a policy of torture from the previous administration. This was rescinded. What is true that Obama explicitly decided he was not going to prosecute any of the past torture. Example article here. I could understand that point of view, and easily debate both sides, but to say that Obama didn't recognize what went on before as torture is wrong.

    20. Re:blasts an by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Christ on a crutch man! Here is the post you originally replied to:

      "The "good cop, bad cop" routine does not require the use of torture. It only requires the THREAT of torture, or some other unpleasant things occurring. The routine is very effective, of course, in certain situations."

      How in the FUCK do you deduce, from that post, that I approve of torture?

      Let's try this: "The formation of ice does not require subzero or even subfreezing temperatures, it only requires a low temperature near freezing, and enough wind to encourage evaporation."

      From THAT sentence, can you deduce my preferences in weather?

      Internal combustion engines do not require an external electrical spark. They only require that fuel be compressed enough, in the presence of oxygen, that pressure causes combustion."

      From THAT sentence, can you deduce whether I prefer a gasoline engine, or a diesel engine?

      I could go on for days, but the fact that you fail at reading comprehension suggest that I'll be wasting all that time.

      Go, get that education. And, maybe get a life while you're at it.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    21. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 1

      How in the FUCK do you deduce, from that post, that I approve of torture?

      What you endorsed was the threat of torture, which many consider a form of torture in and of itself. What you're ignoring is the context of the rest of the thread:

      ==

      _KiTA_: "We caught Bin Laden DESPITE using torture, not BECAUSE of it."

      Anonymous Coward: "And you KNOW this how?"

      Runaway1956: "We KNOW this because of testimony from the CIA operatives who worked with the captives who provided information about Osama. [..] AFTER all the torturing was finished, different operatives approached the same "informants" in a more friendly manner, and basically bribed useful information from the "informants"."

      zakkudo: "Are you sure they weren't doing the well known, "good cop, bad cop"? [..] The torturing effects how someone responds to bribery later."

      Runaway1956: "The "good cop, bad cop" routine does not require the use of torture. It only requires the THREAT of torture, or some other unpleasant things occurring. The routine is very effective, of course, in certain situations."

      Runaway1956: [in an attempt to justify the previous remarks] "The bad cop hasn't done anything illegal, he's merely stretched the truth."

      ==

      I'll stop there.

      Go, get that education. And, maybe get a life while you're at it.

      More ad hominem. You can have the last word in this thread, as it's all been laid bare.

    22. Re:blasts an by robsku · · Score: 1

      You will never find anyplace where I have approved of the use of torture, or the threat of torture.

      Except I did, in black and white.

      No you didn't - and anyone can read the thread and see for themselves.

      I don't know why I bothered with this reply as I know how arguing with trolls work - and hell, it's not even my battle. I just get frustrated when I see asses like you who make a mistake and then create an issue out of being mistaken like it's death before you admit it. I did this more to support your victim here than try to argument you - feel free to declare yourself winner after I don't reply back.

      --
      In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
    23. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 1

      feel free to declare yourself winner after I don't reply back

      It's easy to declare myself the victor when you don't make an argument and throw out the word troll. Yes, anybody can read the thread, and I even quoted the essentials in a convenient format in a later post. Since you don't have an argument to make, your support for the "victim" means nothing to me.

    24. Re:blasts an by K10W · · Score: 1

      The head of Israeli intelligence ran an interview on it years back, first came across links to it in "new scientist". Shame i don't have the article now, was about how torture yielded useless info and undermined progress, in fact good cop bad cop doesn't work and without torture they would have got MORE info. Hard to open up and trust someone or let your guard down and accidentally slip info when guys on their team had previously pissed all over your basic rights and their so called anti torture conventions. The primary way of getting good info was really getting close and learnign their back story inside out, getting to know where they are from etc then making out you already know blah blah and are interested in deeper info. They started revealing more info as they assume the interogator knows that so cut the bullshit. Kind of thinking along the lines of he knows the family across the road from me, the fact the 2 sons are involved, all about their cell etc so he knows their primary backers etc as alludes to knowing so no longer guarded on such matters and spill all kinds.http://politics.slashdot.org/story/13/01/26/1620230/julian-assange-pans-wikileaks-movie#

    25. Re:blasts an by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is Uncle Tom Obama recognises it is torture and is just publicly an accessory to crime after the fact and publicly thumbing his nose at the law. So his attitude, "Law, Law, I don't need to stinkin Law, I am the Law". So Uncle Tom Obama's stance is even worse as he does not have ignorance and stupidity as an excuse, he is just a straight up undeniable criminal. Seriously the only legal stance Obama should take would be to force an acknowledgement and a vote on the Congress and Senate to both acknowledge the crimes and if they so choose try to wiggle them past the US constitution. PS burying more crimes behind national security just makes "Uncle Tom Obama" an even worse criminal. The law is the law.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    26. Re:blasts an by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to debate somebody who needs to pepper their speech with "Uncle Tom Obama". I pointed out your factual error, and will leave it at that.

    27. Re:blasts an by _KiTA_ · · Score: 1

      Are you sure they weren't doing the well known, "good cop, bad cop"? I do not think the order of torture, then bribery is random at all. The torturing effects how someone responds to bribery later.

      There really is no in spite of. It's just the status quo.

      If your "bad cop" routine involves hanging known innocents from hooks until they die and shoving flashlights up people's children's asses in front of them to get them to talk (both things confirmed by the Red Cross to have happened to people under our watch in Iraq), seek a different career path.

  2. Produced by DreamWorks by PPH · · Score: 1

    So there's probably a tie-in to the US government. I'm just not certain who is calling the shots.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Produced by DreamWorks by PPH · · Score: 1

      Completely not what I was thinking. I was referring to Big Media and our government scratching each other's back. Period.

      But since you steered the topic that way: I don't give anyone a get out of jail card just because they might play their anti semetic trump. But I wouldn't put it past our government's propaganda ministry to have done that calculus.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  3. Lies vs Truth by ohnocitizen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A film based on the actual events surrounding Wikileaks could have been compelling material. They could touch on Manning's plight in jail, on the embassy drama, the fights within the organization, etc. By choosing to fabricate key elements of the plot to push an agenda that is anti-wikileaks and pro war with Iran, Dreamworks is passing up a massive opportunity as a studio, and opening themselves up to a PR nightmare.

    1. Re:Lies vs Truth by hsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a PR nightmare

      By whom? Almost all Americans don't care about Julian Assange or Bradley Manning - they probably don't even know who the two are if you didn't mention Wikileaks in the same sentence.

      Now, back to the news - what is important, did Beyonce lipsync?

    2. Re:Lies vs Truth by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Funny

      WTF is Beyonce?

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    3. Re:Lies vs Truth by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      The above comment is more true than funny.

      I can't watch Mobster movies with the same verve of "gotta get those guys" now that I know how our banking system guarantees winners.

      I can't watch some show about people with bad accents and -- ooh, shudder, they are "terrorists" because these WMDs and improvised explosive devices are no match for Nukes and white phosphorous bombs.

      The CIA is just corporate espionage, the FBI is after MP3s rather than CEOs who do more damage, the FDA covers for drug companies and I'm supposed to think that an obscure website could censor information about Iran when all the networks and government are doing their best to paint them as the next "bad guys with bad accents"?

      The wikileaks movie will be as bad as Matt Daimon's "The Informant!" which should have been about how a mega corp bought off FBI agents to make a whistleblower look bad, but I'm supposed to eat popcorn and think some dude worked against his powerful corporation and framed it for profitable collusion so he could get attention. Obviously, TV has not had the intended effect on me.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    4. Re:Lies vs Truth by helix2301 · · Score: 1

      Sherlock homes is in wikileaks movie lol.

  4. Boycott Dreamworks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This appears to be a propoganda film. So is Zero Dark Thirty.

    IANAL. When companies create movies about people who are alive, and events that are still being ajudicated, they are interfering with due process. Who knows what fallacy will be used against Julian Assange as a result.

    Note that Kevin Mitnick was imprisoned in solitary confinement after a judge was convinced that he could just whistle into a phone and launch nulcear weapons. The idea that was pitched to the judge was based on the movie "War Games".

  5. Assange gets hold of leaked script SHOCKER! by ReallyEvilCanine · · Score: 1

    Film at 11. And now, sports.

  6. Re:Iran by cold+fjord · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  7. Didn't we discuss this yesterday... by whoever57 · · Score: 2

    For a complete discussion, just read this story

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:Didn't we discuss this yesterday... by LuSiDe · · Score: 1

      One major difference is Steve Jobs (the main subject) has passed away whereas Julian Assange isn't only very well alive, his story (pun intended) isn't over yet. With a story based heavily on (controversial) history, the story is too fresh. The dust should settle in first.

      --
      WE DON'T NEED NO BLOG CONTROL.
  8. UN Security Council by Enderandrew · · Score: 3, Informative

    7 times the UN security council has unanimously voted that they have evidence that Iran is enriching uranium for weapons and ordered them to stop. If they're being framed, they're being framed in such a way that every single member of the security council has it confirmed by their own intelligence agencies.

    And yet Assange individually knows better than all of these intelligence agencies. If he had actual proof of that, that would be a fantastic thing to leak. I don't believe he does.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    1. Re:UN Security Council by Maudib · · Score: 2

      Actually most of those agencies believed that they didn't, and stated as much. As did the non-Cheney controlled American analysts. It was pretty obvious at the time that the Bush/Cheney were looking for a pretext for war.

      Thats not the case this time. Iran is an existential threat an ally. Has actively supported our enemies. Is unequivocally known to be enriching uranium. Has traded bomb and missile technology with a country that openly admits to be developing weapons to target the U.S..

      Furthermore no one is talking about regime change. The hit that WILL come to Iran is going to be aimed at the nuclear program and overwhelmingly specops/aerial/naval, which in fact adds credibility to the motives.

    2. Re:UN Security Council by wmac1 · · Score: 2

      Stop there.

      "UN security council has unanimously voted that they have evidence that Iran is enriching uranium for weapons and ordered them to stop"

      Is that a joke?

      UN voted that they have enriched Uranium for weapons? Iran has never enriched above 20% level. Show me your proof or I call a huge bullshit.

    3. Re:UN Security Council by Raenex · · Score: 2

      Actually most of those agencies believed that they didn't, and stated as much. As did the non-Cheney controlled American analysts. It was pretty obvious at the time that the Bush/Cheney were looking for a pretext for war.

      I'll await your citations. I've debated this position with others in the past, and even France, the poster child for the "wise" Europeans counciling against war by the brash Americans, wanted more time for inspections. They never said they believed there were no WMD.

    4. Re:UN Security Council by Enderandrew · · Score: 1
      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  9. Re:missing an 'l' in the title by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

    No, he panned it. He thought the movie sucked, so he tossed it into a pan, and sauteed it in butter. The movie still sucked, so he left it out for the cats to eat. They're not touching it either.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  10. Re:Slightly off-topic but ... by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't cooperate either. Never cooperate in any criminal investigation in which you might be a subject. Never, never, never. You have the right to be silent - USE IT IDIOT!!!

    Investigators never ask an innocent question. A totally innocuous question, such as, "Isn't that a beautiful child?" answered affirmatively, will be used to paint you as a pedo. Never cooperate!

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  11. mockingbirds by Max_W · · Score: 2

    The Soviet bureaucrats learned hard way that keeping such phenomenons as Andrei Sakharov, Anatoly Sharansky, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in prison is like trying to kill a mockingbird.

    The US and UK bureaucrats should cut losses, learn lessons and leave Julian and Bradley alone. Let them go wherever they wish while still there is time. They are just too big to be kept down like this. Not good to attract attention to them any longer.

    It the USA and UK go berserk the whole world will turn into a zoo.

    1. Re:mockingbirds by Max_W · · Score: 3, Informative

      A law has a letter and a spirit. Socrates also broke a letter of a law. And he was condemned to a capital punishment by sort of a kangaroo court of that time.

      They are on the same scale as Socrates, they are the personages of human civilization. Nothing can be done about it anymore. They are too big and can turn out to be unexpectedly devastatingly strong. The best way is to leave them alone and ignore.

    2. Re:mockingbirds by KeensMustard · · Score: 1

      Bradley committed a crime a really bad crime. It was treason.

      Arguably. It could also be argued that the people he exposed, those that committed the criminal acts he exposed, those that were complicit, those that created the framework where such disgusting, amoral and hideous acts could be committed - it could be argued that these people were the criminals, and Manning the patriot for exposing them. They were and are acting against the interest of the United States - not Manning. They were, and are, by their actions betraying the principles and ideals that unite the United States - not Manning.

      Arguably, he is a true patriot.

      When do you suppose those whose crimes were exposed by Wikileaks will be brought to justice?

    3. Re:mockingbirds by Maudib · · Score: 1

      I missed something. What big horrible crimes did Manning's leaks reveal? The only thing close was a video of an airstrike in Baghdad, which he found in a Judge advocates file because it was being investigated by the military already.

    4. Re:mockingbirds by KeensMustard · · Score: 1

      I missed something.

      You sure did. Why is that? Why did it become so important to you to focus on Manning himself and not on the content of the leaks?

      What big horrible crimes did Manning's leaks reveal? The only thing close was a video of an airstrike in Baghdad, which he found in a Judge advocates file because it was being investigated by the military already.

      Isn't that the one that we later found out the US military had counted as insurgent deaths - when in fact it was a bunch of civilians and a reuters cameraman? The one with the helicopter crew whooping and laughing whilst innocent people are killed, and then later, when they find out that there were kids there, they justified it to themselves by saying that civilians shouldn't have been wandering around - in their own city? You're right. That wasn't the worst of it.

      I suspect that the discovery that some military sub contractors are a hive of pederasts (specifically, they like to buy under age Afghan boys and then rape them) and that the US government knew and did nothing - and still has done nothing - that ranks in the top ten. Maybe not the worst though.

      Would you like know more?

  12. Re:Iran by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    That post is offtopic? Hardly.

    From the fine story post:

    "They tried to frame Iran as having an active nuclear weapons program. Then they try to frame WikiLeaks as the reason why that's not known to the public now."

    Both of Assange's assertions are false as shown above. Iran isn't being framed, they do have an actual active nuclear weapons program, including design and testing of implosion based warhead components. What they have yet to do, so far as is publicly known, is to actually produce a real warhead. Anyone reading the papers, as shown in the parent post, or other sources, knows this. If fact, Iran may be making a move to surge their efforts. This isn't good.

    Assnage's comments are just another example of Assange's self-glorification. Nobody knows about Iran because Wikileaks hasn't release anything? Please.

    That isn't much different from the claim he makes in regard to planning the Arab Spring. I doubt that is even 5% true.

    . . . The first time I went to Egypt, also in 2005, I met the same kinds of people I met in Lebanon. Cosmopolitan, liberal-minded individuals who were like Arab versions of me. Egypt had nothing like Hezbollah controlling large swaths of the country and warmongering against the neighbors. No foreign army smothered the country. Instead it had a police state. The narrative there at first seemed to be: democrats against the regime. That’s what it looked like. But my experience in Lebanon prompted me to ask a question of my liberal Egyptian friends that seems not to have occurred to some of the other journalists and Western internationalists who have been there. I asked these Egyptian liberals, “how many Egyptians agree with you about politics?” The answer stopped me cold: five percent at the most. . . . --- The International Elite Bubble , by Michael J. Totten

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  13. Re:Iran by wmac1 · · Score: 1

    1- CIA and other intelligence agencies have expressed several times that Iran does NOT have an active nuclear weapons program. No one has ever proved them to have such an active program.

    2- All nuclear material in Iran is under 24hours IAEA supervision and accounted for. IAEA has never complained about considerable (more than a few grams) of material missing.

    3- Iran has not enriched Uranium at military levels (i.e. more than 24%). There has been one occasion in which an slightly higher enriched trace was found but later it was resolved (it was because of calibration problems in some centrifuges).

    Now you show us any PROOF you have of them producing nukes.

  14. He's Just Holding Out by Greyfox · · Score: 2

    He's just holding out for Brad Pitt to be cast as the role of Julian. Then I bet he'll change his tune. The final cut of the movie will be 5 minutes of explosions followed by 90 minutes of Brad Pitt crashing on a couch in an embassy somewhere.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  15. Re:Iran by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

    undoing moderation.

  16. An inaccurate portrayal is appropriate ... by drnb · · Score: 2

    A film based on the actual events surrounding Wikileaks could have been compelling material.

    And the unedited helicopter gunship video that brought wikileaks mainstream attention would have been compelling material too. Unfortunately wikileaks saw an opportunity to get the press attention that they desired and to further the political agenda that they desired. So they edited out the scenes where guys could be seen holding weapons. The journalists walking around with armed insurgents was an inconvenient truth for their narrative. An inaccurate portrayal of wikileaks is fitting since they were are all about inaccurate portrayal as well. All the leaks that fit their agenda and politics, none that do not.

    The idea to anonymously leak info to the press is a good idea. Wikileaks/Assange was the wrong group/person to lead that effort. They/he have set back an otherwise good idea.

    1. Re:An inaccurate portrayal is appropriate ... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      This

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:An inaccurate portrayal is appropriate ... by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      So they edited out the scenes where guys could be seen holding weapons.

      Weapons that could take down a helicopter gunship?

    3. Re:An inaccurate portrayal is appropriate ... by drnb · · Score: 1

      So they edited out the scenes where guys could be seen holding weapons.

      Weapons that could take down a helicopter gunship?

      Actually, yes. One guy had an RPG.

      However that does not really matter. The helicopter was out there to protect ground troops. There had just been a firefight between insurgents and US troops in that area.

  17. Re:Iran by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    I'm afraid you've got some bad data. Allow me to refer you to this document from the IAEA which lists a number of activities connected with the design, fabrication, and testing of nuclear weapons, and developing nuclear materials. That 24 hour IAEA supervision you refer to isn't consistent with what is in the document - they are concerned about the growing number of hidden Iranian nuclear facilities. I suggest you read the Annex, from which I've extracted some relevant information. Sections C4 and forward are especially interesting. Attachment 2: Analysis of Payload, is a bit hard to explain if you want to maintain the fiction of Iran's peaceful intentions.

    The short of it is that the Iranians are engaged in activities consistent with designing and testing the components for a nuclear warhead to fit on one of their existing missiles, and building secret uranium processing facilities to provide the nuclear material for the warheads. There isn't publicly available evidence to show that they have started manufacturing any real warheads, or that they as yet have enough nuclear material. They seem to be limiting themselves to putting the infrastructure in place. . . . for now.

    Implementation of the NPT Safeguards Agreement and relevant provisions of Security Council resolutions in the Islamic Republic of Iran
    IAEA Board of Governors
    Date: 8 November 2011

    ANNEX - Possible Military Dimensions to Iran’s Nuclear Programme

    A. Historical Overview

    Between 2003 and 2004, the Agency confirmed a number of significant failures on the part of Iran to meet its obligations under its Safeguards Agreement with respect to the reporting of nuclear material, the processing and use of undeclared nuclear material and the failure to declare facilities where the nuclear material had been received, stored and processed.2 Specifically, it was discovered that, as early as the late 1970s and early 1980s, and continuing into the 1990s and 2000s, Iran had used undeclared nuclear material for testing and experimentation in several uranium conversion, enrichment, fabrication and irradiation activities, including the separation of plutonium, at undeclared locations and facilities.3 . . .

    . . . The Agency continued to seek clarification of issues with respect to the scope and nature of Iran’s nuclear programme, particularly in light of Iran’s admissions concerning its contacts with the clandestine nuclear supply network, information provided by participants in that network and information which had been provided to the Agency by a Member State. This last information, collectively referred to as the “alleged studies documentation”, which was made known to the Agency in 2005, indicated that Iran had been engaged in activities involving studies on a so-called green salt project, high explosives testing and the re-engineering of a missile re-entry vehicle to accommodate a new payload.10 All of this information, taken together, gave rise to concerns about possible military dimensions to Iran’s nuclear programme. . . .

    . . . Between 2007 and 2010, Iran continued to conceal nuclear activities, by not informing the Agency in a timely manner of the decision to construct or to authorize construction of a new nuclear power plant at Darkhovin16 and a third enrichment facility near Qom (the Fordow Fuel Enrichment Plant).17,18 The Agency is still awaiting substantive responses from Iran to Agency requests for further information about its announcements, in 2009 and 2010 respectively, that it had decided to construct ten additional enrichment facilities (the locations for five of which had already been identified)19 and that it possessed laser enrichment technology.20 . . .

    C. Nuclear Explosive Development Indicators
    C.1. Programme management structure

    . . . the green sal

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  18. Re:Slightly off-topic but ... by ConaxConax · · Score: 1

    While this is a US centric video, I recommend it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

  19. Same old, same old... by crepe-boy · · Score: 1

    On one flight I had the misfortune to watch the atrocious remake of The Italian Job. Paramount spent a significant amount of that film bashing Napster and Shawn Fanning.

  20. So is torture forbidden or not ? by boorack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even arguing whether torture was effective or not is a sign that US propaganda in this regard did very well. Now supported by Hollywood they seem to beat Goebbels to the punch. Torturing people is forbidden by Geneva convetions and international law, period. Anyone using torture under any pretext should be prosecuted, period. This ban has its reason: if you allow your government to torture some "brown people" your govt claims being dangerous, a precedent is being set and very soon the very same government will torture just about anyone they don't like (including their own citizens).

    Stop talking about effectiveness of torturing people - your government propaganda division can't be happier hearing this.

    1. Re:So is torture forbidden or not ? by perceptual.cyclotron · · Score: 1

      Reply to clear errant downmod...

  21. Unbelievable hypocrisy by Corwn+of+Amber · · Score: 1

    So, he gets a leak about his site that's made of leaked material, but won't post the script of the movie about it FRONT PAGE as soon as received? What an hypocritical imbecile.

    --
    Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
  22. Re:Iran by wmac1 · · Score: 1

    I still don't find any reference to unsupervised "nuclear material" (i.e. what NPT is about) except those very small amounts mentioned here "late 1970s and early 1980s, and continuing into the 1990s and 2000s" which is referring to a decade ago. Currently all the fissile material is under supervision.

    Conducting tests with highly explosives (non-nuclear material) and missiles is not covered by NPT agreements.

  23. Ego by Martin+Spamer · · Score: 2

    This will cost me karma but when will his fanbois finally understand his ego knows no bounds.

    He fell out with with Daniel Domscheit-Berg and other co-founders of Wikileaks.

    He fell out with his Alan Smithee his autobiographer.

    He fell out with the Guardian Newspaper.

    And now he's fallen out with Dreamworks.