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Unemployed Chinese Graduates Say No Thanks To Factory Jobs

hackingbear writes "While people and politicians are pitching for more education and reviving manufacturing in this country, jobs go begging in factories while many college educated young workers, which now number 11 times more than in 1989, are unemployed or underemployed in China. A national survey of urban residents, released this winter by a Chinese university, showed that among people in their early 20s, those with a college degree were four times as likely to be unemployed as those with only an elementary school education. Yet, it is not about the pay. Many factories are desperate for workers, despite offering double-digit annual pay increases and improved benefits, while an office job would initially pay as little as a third of factory wages. The glut of college graduates is eroding wages even for those with more marketable majors, like computer science. Vocational schools and training programs are unpopular because they suffer from a low status [or are seen as] for people from unsuccessful, poor, or peasant backgrounds. 'The more educated people are, the less they want to work in a factory,' said an unemployed graduate. If we do succeed bringing back factory jobs, are there enough people who want them?"

14 of 366 comments (clear)

  1. It's the stigma by Ltap · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People still see factory jobs as being for "stupid" people and they are generally looked down on, while even terrible office work is considered acceptable. This shouldn't be.

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    1. Re:It's the stigma by alostpacket · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True, but you also dont spend years educating yourself in order to work on a factory line. Even bad office work is a start to an employment history and could lead to better opportunities down the road. Factory jobs just lead to more of the same.*

      *That said I can't even pretend I have any full grasp of how employment works in China.

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    2. Re:It's the stigma by jcr · · Score: 5, Funny

      I would be better then Ballmer for sure.

      I certainly don't doubt that...

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:It's the stigma by jcr · · Score: 5, Informative

      Iphones are trivial bits of engineering

      Speaking as someone who has been involved in hardware development, you have no idea WTF you're talking about.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    4. Re:It's the stigma by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not to mention if the choice is between "bad office work" and Foxconn... I think the choice is clear.

      It sounds like Chinese workers want the same thing that American workers want: better working conditions. If the pay isn't sufficient to draw adequate quantity of talent then you need to start upping your incentives. Reduce quotas and hours (after all more than 40 hours a week is a waste of money since you're just paying overtime for someone to do the same amount of work), improve working conditions (maybe mix up positions throughout the day to prevent repetitive injuries and strain) etc.

    5. Re:It's the stigma by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      *** THIS IS AN AUTOMATED ALERT ****

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    6. Re:It's the stigma by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It also sounds like they have a "buyers market" for labour, workers can pick and choose because there are plenty of jobs and businesses are forced to react by making more attractive offers. Henry Ford famously did the same thing with his factory (the largest in the world at the time). He dramatically cut workers hours at the same time as handing out massive pay increases, and then made a big noise about it in the newspapers. Workers flocked to the Ford factory looking for a job, (somewhat counter-intuitively) productivity also went through the roof. A direct result of Ford's policy was that it pushed the US into a 40hr week much faster than the unions could have done so alone, it was a glaring example to all that such a move would not destroy the economy..

      When I was a kid China was still suffering the last of Mao's self-induced famines, I'm pretty sure most workers in China look at today's job market as a blessing rather than a problem because at the end of the day, finding and retaining workers is a rich man's problem and a common man's opportunity.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    7. Re:It's the stigma by Miamicanes · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't know about 1990, but we definitely had some pretty nasty air pollution about 40-60 years ago. When I was < 10 and growing up in Ohio circa 1980, I remember that air pollution was pretty much everywhere, even in smaller cities, like the Warren-Youngstown-Sharon area roughly halfway between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. My first "omg" memory of Florida was looking up during recess one day about a month after we moved there, and freaking out because I could see the full moon in broad daylight. That was something you never, EVER saw in Ohio. Or at least something *I* had no memory of ever seeing.

      Hell, I spent July 5, 1994 in New York, and remember BARELY being able to see the Twin Towers from Midtown. The whole city smelled like a burning log in a fireplace. Likewise, I spent a week in Los Angeles sometime in August 1996, and remember driving into L.A. on LaCienega drive... I made it over the mountain, and saw the famous vista with LA (well, OK, I guess it was actually Beverly Hills) spread out in front of me... except you couldn't actually see anything except faint rooftops a mile or two away, and a sea of opaque smog. In LA's defense, though, its smog didn't really have any particular odor. It was opaque to a degree I'd never seen in my life, but other than obscuring most of the views, it didn't really bother me.

      Anyway, onto the pics:

      Pittsburgh, 1948... during the DAY: http://bike-pgh.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/smog1.jpg

      Cleveland, 1973: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/CLEVELAND_SKYLINE_IN_THE_SMOG_OF_JULY_20%2C_1973%2C_DAY_OF_POLLUTION_ALERT_-_NARA_-_550190.jpg

      New York, 1972: http://earth911.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Smog-1970s.jpg

      Los Angeles, 1948: http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/jamesfallows/los-angeles-smog_53499058.jpg

      Manhattan, 1966: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wavz13/4083896787/

  2. It isn't just China by some+old+guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We've all heard the ancient urban myths about PhD's flipping burgers, but here in the States there seems to be a social stigma among younger graduates attached to manufacturing jobs that sometimes clouds one's financial judgement. Holding out for a cool-sounding title and a comfy chair over a steady job that pays considerably more, just because a lot of rednecks or minorities work there too, just doesn't make sense. You can still pursue your dream job while you earn a living, and you can do your laughing at the other people on payday.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
    1. Re:It isn't just China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, for many students graduating nowadays, the crushing expense of student debt almost guarantees that the "learned it on the streets" employee will do better than they do. For example, if you're a law student(*), your prospects are so dismal that the opportunity cost will hurt more over time than simply having worked a "regular" job. It's 4 years of your life you could have been investing for, but instead you were accruing debt for.

      Consider how much money you would have, after interest, if you were to save just $10 a day (that's only one hour's pay after tax) in your $35,000 a year job (yes, you might think it's high, but that's the average starting wage for a trades helper--it goes up from there--I know know, I did that job) you would have amassed almost $20,000 in banked cash assuming you chose wise investments. You'd also be earning $50,000+ a year once the university grad graduates because you'd now be a journeyman.

      The fresh college grad is getting themselves a nice $35,000 a year pay to start off, just like you, but they have to put $10 a day towards student debt for the next 10+ years (don't forget the debt accrues interest the day you step out of college). In 10 years, the journeyman has now banked over $100,000 (assuming they up their daily savings with their increase in pay). While I don't doubt there's a point the college grad will beat the journeyman in salary, and eventually after-debt income, I have to wonder--how close to retirement is that point now? We're already at 32 years old and the journeyman has $100,000 cash, and the college grad $0 (but no debt!). Perhaps 10 years after that they might be equal in savings? By age 42 your children have likely left home--do you need money so desperately anymore?

      Or, more importantly, one has to ask themselves what is more rewarding. Pushing papers around the legal system, or building brick walls? You might be surprised at the answer, if you consider the question honestly.

      (*) - Or any of the other popular ones, history, geographic, librarian, teacher

      Everyone makes their own choices, and I don't envy anyone's decision, not do I deride it--except if your decision is to be a lazy good for nothing slob. :) But there's plenty of pride that comes from factory work (or any sort of manual labour job). I may be a sysadmin now, but I take no less pride in the time I spent as an electrician.

  3. I can see both sides of this by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a holder of a graduate degree who can currently only get work as unskilled labor, I can see both sides of this. I work on the ramp at the airport, and while the job isn't really all that bad, intellectually it is unstimulating and rather boring; obviously I am also greatly overqualified for it. The thing is, turns out there are a lot of people there with college degrees, including in things like law or engineering. And, once you get a few years in, you can actually make decent money: one guy I know who has been there 7-8 years makes about 70k a year with overtime. You actually end up working with some pretty good people, and there is opportunity to move up, especially if you have an advanced degree and the ability/desire to advance. In any case, its a whole lot better than sitting at home drawing unemployment. Not everyone is going to get to work their dream job, and eventually you have to make a decision on whats more important: waiting around for year for a tiny shot at getting a job in the field you studied for, or taking a job with pretty decent pay that will let you pay off your education debt and provide for yourself/your family.

    In this specific case, it seems like a no-brainer. If you are in fact skilled and intelligent, take that factory job. In a few years you'll probably end up a foreman, supervisor, or manager. Again, as someone in a similar situation, it comes down to this: job>no job.

    --
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  4. It's about status by bbartlog · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For young people (those still looking for a mate, in particular), taking a factory job would be a big blow to their status, regardless of the level of pay. Better an unemployed white collar professional than an employed manufacturing worker, welder, or truck driver. It's similar in the US. Financially the median person is better off becoming a truck driver at 19 than pursuing a law degree (and racking up the associated debt), but being a trucker is really socially limiting. Likewise manufacturing in China, I expect.

  5. Re:And why should they? by SylvesterTheCat · · Score: 5, Informative

    "wrote memorization"

    IT IS "ROTE," NOT "WROTE."

    This is the second usage in this thread so far. Good grief.

    If you are going to criticize the current education system, then use the correct terms.

  6. Re:And why should they? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The headlines you see about the horrible education system in U.S. are referring to K-12. (student age 6 - 17). When it comes to universities, U.S. is still the envy of much of the world. (else you wouldn't see the flood of Chinese and Korean students coming to American colleges)

    In East Asian countries, kids are expected to study 20 hours a day to prepare themselves for the university entrance exam, which is extremely competitive. Getting into a top university sets you up for life. But once you actually get INTO a university, you don't need to study much at all. It's the exact opposite of U.S. where everything prior to college is a breeze, but you actually have to study and learn stuff to get your degree (at least if you're a STEM major)

    I have a co-worker who graduated from a S. Korean university in 1997. He regales us with stories of how he drank and chased girls in college. Once he woke up on the day of a final exam with a hangover, realized he knew absolutely nothing about the topic, so he wrote a personal essay involving himself, the professor, national ethics, and how wants to thank the professor for his hard work which is benefiting mankind. He ended up getting a C and passed the course.