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Does US Owe the World an Education At Its Expense?

Posted by Soulskill on from the only-the-parts-that-have-oil dept.

An anonymous reader writes "'Right now, there are brilliant students from all over the world sitting in classrooms at our top universities,' President Obama explained to the nation Tuesday in his pitch for immigration reform. 'They are earning degrees in the fields of the future, like engineering and computer science...We are giving them the skills to figure that out, but then we are going to turn around and tell them to start the business and create those jobs in China, or India, or Mexico, or someplace else. That is not how you grow new industries in America. That is how you give new industries to our competitors. That is why we need comprehensive immigration reform." If the President truly fears that international students will use skills learned at U.S. colleges and universities to the detriment of the United States if they return home (isn't a rising tide supposed to lift all boats?) — an argument NYC Mayor Bloomberg advanced in 2011 ('we are investing millions of dollars [actually billions] to educate these students at our leading universities, and then giving the economic dividends back to our competitors – for free') — then wouldn't another option be not providing them with the skills in the first place?"

13 of 689 comments (clear)

  1. We have the same... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    in France.
    They come, study, get a diploma...
    And go away :)

    For all that time, free university, free medical expenses...

    F*ck socialism, it killed my country.

    1. Re:We have the same... by sycodon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Meanwhile, they learn the local language and culture.

      Wasn't my experience in CA in the 80's

      Self segregating, separate clubs, etc. Some were even hostile...just try getting a date with one of "their" women.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:We have the same... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Local Junior College in Sacramento had this problem. The Fundie Ukrainians took over the student council and started persecuting people, funding ukrainian-only events, etc. They only got ousted after a rather public expose on this in one of the local newspapers which led to enough of the student body taking notice to vote them out of office (Also helped that volunteers started handling voting outside the usual midday period, which a lot of us missed due to having classes back to back during the voting period.)

      Point being there's a lot of cultural clashes going on across the US, but as much as it could be considered a 'foreigner' problem, it's also a cultural shift towards apathy within the US population itself. It doesn't matter what ethnicity, cultural background, etc, the majority of people have become so lazy and apathetic that until someone makes a big deal out of political shifts that are happening, and it affects them either financially or personally, they won't take action to make any necessary changes to curb other people's anti-social activities, even if it's done using resources that are earmarked for public, rather than 'minority of public' purposes.

  2. Couldn't we just charge them tuition? by sco08y · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh, wait, we do.

    1. Re:Couldn't we just charge them tuition? by MrEricSir · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In fact we charge them outrageous tuitions in many cases. I went to a state university, and our department actively recruited students from India and China because they brought in the most cash.

      For the same reason, there was no outreach to the community college just down the street.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    2. Re:Couldn't we just charge them tuition? by chihowa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, delusional. "Overqualified" is usually a bad quality to have in an employee. It means they're not fully using their abilities, will be bored at the job, and will ultimately leave as soon as better prospects present themselves.

      Specifically and deliberately staffing your company with overqualified employees is a recipe for poor performance and high turnover. Anyone who thinks that's a good idea is delusional.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    3. Re:Couldn't we just charge them tuition? by SomeKDEUser · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is exactly one Ponzi scheme which works: immigration. This is the real source of the US's riches. Generations upon generations of immigrants building their lives and enriching the country. Why do you think your country is rich? Natural ressources are good, but you are not Saudi Arabia, and that's a good thing too. The institutions are good but not great, although they are extremely stable. The infrastructure is pretty crummy. The primary educational system has pretty dismal outcomes. But new generations of immigrants bring in their skills and motivation.

      Higher education is good, and the spillover in new industries drive the new economy, but you know the joke: "what is a Russian professor teaching Indians and Chinese students -- A US University classroom". Immigration is the key there. Again, it is a Ponzi scheme, new generations generating the wealth to sustain the older ones.

      But this is a good and virtuous one! Embrace it: it makes the US vibrant compared to Old Europe, and I say that as a European rather found of my continent!.

    4. Re:Couldn't we just charge them tuition? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One of the major reasons the US is rich is because the rest of the world has been using US dollars they receive to buy and sell oil instead of using them to buy US goods and services. It's like if I write a cheque to pay my landlord, who doesn't cash it, but uses it to pay his mortgage, and the bank uses it to pay their employees, and so on, without anyone ever cashing it. The wealth of the US comes at the rest of the worlds expense, for the most part, and they stablize and extend the system with their war machine.

      With China now selling oil and natural gas in renminbi and Russia giving China unfettered access to their natural resources, there are going to be some pretty dramatic changes in store for the American people, and most of them don't appear to even have a clue.

      They're going to need immigrants desperately, though, because they have a demographic imbalance that's going to leave them with too few young people to maintain things and care for all the retiring boomers.

      If they were to close their doors and try to go it on their own, they would be so completely fucked that it's laughable to think about.

      And the standard of living of the rest of the world would go up dramatically.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  3. My View by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    For every immigrant that comes over here, we send the "donor" country back one of our citizens. We get an engineer, and they get a TV talk show host or a Senator. Seems like a good trade to me.

    -- MyLongNickName

  4. New Low: Publishing Troll Submission by cmholm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The way this submission is crafted invites a flame war, but ok, let's tackle it.

    The submitter is evidently not aware that the vast majority of international students pay full freight and then some when they attend a US school. So, in the small picture, that's why US universities market to them, at a time when US students are having difficulty ponying up (for a variety of reasons), and state legislatures are cutting funding for the public institutions.

    Bigger picture, yes, we're educating the competition, but we're also familiarizing the next world elite with US culture much as the British used to, making the world ever more US-centric. Given the economics for the schools, believe me, these students are going to come. So, we might as well make it easier for them to stay AFTER we've educated them, and thus allow them to add value to the US (culturally, economically) over the long run. If we create the brains, why encourage them drain back out into the world?

    --
    Luke, help me take this mask off ... Just for once, let me butterfly kiss you with my own eyes.
  5. Sending 'em home isn't all bad by Cyrano+de+Maniac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The current situation does inure some benefits to the U.S., but in not easily measurable ways which is why they're not talked about all that much.

    My observations when I was a college student was that international students would gain a perspective on the U.S., Americans, our life, and our culture which was different from what they expected when they first arrived. I assume when they went back home that this new perspective would cause them to evaluate their own local press and government statements about the U.S. in light of their first-hand experiences and knowledge. I had lab partners from Saudi Arabia, Ghana, and mainland China, all of whom I was able to talk with about perspectives and impressions of the U.S., and I have no doubt that each of them had a more nuanced and healthier view of the U.S. after having lived here.

    If you want to stabilize relations with China and various Muslim areas of the world I think we'd be well served to invite far more of their students to study here so that when they go back home they can correct the thinking of their friends and family. Likewise the Americans who have a chance to study with them will realize that by and large "people are people", dispelling the simplistic "us versus them" mindset we seem to be afflicted with.

    --
    Cyrano de Maniac
  6. yep by mozumder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    International students are the ones that are paying full price for our universities, and they're the ones that keep our universities funded.

    Universities court international students like it was nobody else's business.

    A good part of the US GDP can be traced to actually selling higher-level education to international students. Consider that each international student brings in $50k+ to the US GDP, and multiply that by the number of students per year. It's easily a bigger industry than Hollywood.

    I'm surprised that Government doesn't allow more sales of education to international students. Our economy could use that money.

    Foreign money really does grow an economy. Consider also that in the 90's, the immigration door was wide open. Millions of people came to America. Now consider that each one needs to buy a house, at $100k+ each... you could pretty much explain the incredible GDP growth back in the 90's by our open border policy back then, and you saw how it hit our economy when we closed the borders after 9/11.

  7. Re:Educating the US by Ocker3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, but your point isn't in the vein of the slightly zenophobic summary, so noone else wants to engage with you *sigh* An educated world is one less likely to have as many terrorists, reactionaries, etc., one more willing to use modern science and medicine to solve problems instead of war, but nooooo, it's too expensive, we should solve our own problems first, other countries should look after themselves *facepalm* Why did Australia build schools in Indonesia under a conservative (for Australia) government? Because the best schools at that time in Indonesia were funded by Muslim Radicals, they had the best teachers, the best facilities, etc., so people sent their kids there even though there was a chance they'd become radicalised and join an extremist group. If you offer a good alternative people will use it. The more educated\experienced people are, the more willing they are on average to sit down to solve problems, education is a way of imbuing people with knowledge from past generations so it doesn't take years of experience for them to realise violence should be a last resort.