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Piriform Asks BleachBit To Remove Winapp2.ini Importer
ahziem writes "As author of the BleachBit system cleaner, I received a polite but firm request from Piriform, makers of the similar application CCleaner, to remove a two-year-old feature from BleachBit that allows individual BleachBit users to import winapp2.ini data files created by the community that define which files to delete for applications. Does Piriform's request have merit? Do I need a lawyer? What is a good response to avoid any ugly situation?"
By the way, nice "Slashvert". I'm sold...
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
And once again for the 1,000,000 time, yes, and this isn't the place to get legal advice...
True, but there's really any advice that you should ask for from ./er's? How to meet members of the opposite sex? Which Linux distro to use? Whether Metro is better than Unity?
Once you get it in perspective, the question makes as much sense as any other.
This would be like Microsoft asking OpenOffice not to import Word format. Or, for a closer analogy, for them to ask Mozilla not to have Firefox import IE bookmarks when you install it. This type of thing is done all the time. Unless they claim to have a patent on the format in the .ini file, it's totally fair game.
Why should you be frightened of a violation of their TOS? Have you or your software agreed to be bound by those terms at any point? No? Well then, why the fuck are they threatening you? Answer: because it's easier than threatening their own customers who might actually be violating those TOS, since threatening them will create a Streisand Effect and have them leaving in droves for good.
You might have another TheOatmeal-versus-FunnyJunk moment here.
Do it like the Indians in the call centers. Tell them that you are working hard on this issue and are very keen to resolve it as soon as possible, but do nothing in reality.
Play for time until they are bored.
~ Best man at your service.
Does Piriform's request have merit? Do I need a lawyer? What is a good response to avoid any ugly situation?
No, maybe, no sure-fire answer. The first option would be to plainly ignore it, which is probably what I would have picked until I got any more formal but since you've already publicly acknowledged receiving it that's out the window. I'd probably reply:
"Your terms of service is an agreement between your company and your users, as BleachBit is not a party to this agreement we see no legal basis for your request and have not evaluated your claims further."
Most likely, you'll hear nothing and it'll go away but they can always send a lawyer after you, in which case you might want one too. But I think this answer should be fairly safe since the only thing you're saying is that you never agreed to any terms of service.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Don't remove this feature. Politely tell Piriformis to go fuck themselves. If you hear from them again, get a lawyer.
But never back down to these bullying assholes. (Unless they're willing to buy you out for $10 million or something, then I think we'd all sell out.)
Depends how he wrote his winapp2.ini importer. Did he use Pinform's documentation/SDK? If so, something may apply if that documentation was provided for the purpose of having users write winapp2.ini files and not for the purposes of developing a competing app.
If he wrote it by examining how users wrote their winapp2.ini files and made guesses, then he's in the clear (reverse-engineering).
If he asked for help from the community, things get trickier because now the licenses and all that are horribly tangled.
I would get a lawyer and compose a polite reply asking why they think it's a TOS violation - perhaps they thought you accessed their documentation and used it against the license?
Right now things are at the "polite" level. Asking for more information on what they think is wrong doesn't hurt, maybe even politely explaining and showing documentation you didn't violate the ToS. It could be a huge misunderstanding and they thought you took their file and used it directly, without realizing there are other sources? (And that's not secure - since that community source could involve someone uploading CCleaner's version).
> Does Piriform's request have merit?
Did you read the article they are complaining about? It reads like a how-to to rip off Pirform's data. The subtlety of winapp vs. winapp2 may have gotten lost somewhere. But statements like "The Open Source disk cleaner Bleachbit takes advantage of this as it can import all of CCleaner’s cleaning locations." sounds like a real problem.
Is this a poorly worded article or is the author suggesting taking Pirform’s proprietary data? Does your organization support/encourage people to take Pirform’s proprietary data for use in BleachBit?
The winapp2.com site seems to list a data file from Pirform, not the community. This may not be your responsibility, but it certainly puts the whole community into question. How closely aligned are you with that community?
> What is a good response to avoid any ugly situation?"
I would expect you to be an expert in these tools, this market, and the winapp2 community. The fact that you are asking us these questions suggests you are not. Do you support the article? Do you support the use of anything proprietary to be used by BleachBit? Does the winapp2 community support anything inappropriate with Pirform's data? You should take a position on all of these items. Even if what you are doing is technically legal, how you present yourself can attract unnecessary trouble.
> Do I need a lawyer?
Who knows. So the only safe answer is "Yes". But, this is as much of an image issue as it is a legal issue. You might need a marketing person to explain this as much as a lawyer.
Winapp2 is produced by the same people as Bleach. This is a giant AstroTurf circle.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Why bother responding? Why bother letting them know that you're listening to and giving consideration to their threats? Why bother making a paper trail of any kind?
If I had a lawyer on staff twiddling his thumbs, then I'd have him one-up the situation and write a "shut up and don't bother us" letter; but otherwise, I'd just dodge that shit entirely and remain silent.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Surely the ToS relates to using CCleaner which is totally irrelevant as he's not using their software. I don't see how copyright comes into play if he's not distributing the ini file and as far as I can tell, the purpose of importing the file is for user generated rules.
The only thing that I can see that could apply would be if CCleaner has patented the ini text format, but that would be absurd and I can't see that standing up in court.
A simple letter stating that he doesn't use the CCleaner software and that the ToS are irrelevant to him should suffice. Let them come back with lawyers and see how much money they want to waste.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Da fuq? Having browsed first ~5 pages of J'raxis' comments, I see not a single case of astroturfing.
His sig is indeed in bad taste, but that's not a reason to spread misinformation -- or worse, upmod disinformation.
The questioner doesn't say where he is based, which makes a big difference. In Europe this kind of compatibility is specifically permitted by the law, so there really is nothing Piriform can do.
A polite "no" might be a good place to start, and then see what their response is. Ask them to explain why they want it removed and what basis they have for asking.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
And once again for the 1,000,000 time, yes, and this isn't the place to get legal advice...
True, but there's really any advice that you should ask for from ./er's? How to meet members of the opposite sex? Which Linux distro to use? Whether Metro is better than Unity?
Once you get it in perspective, the question makes as much sense as any other.
Except this wasn't even a request for advice. This was a thinly veiled attempt to invoke the Streisand Effect.
It was just an email - just dismiss it as spam and wait for a more formal request.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
By including that phrase which would indeed be declared invalid in court due to breaking laws (slavery, solicitation), you will have invalidated every other clause in the contract (unless you explicitly had a limitation clause in there saying if any clause is declared invalid all other clauses remain effective). As such you effectively have said they can do anything they like with it.
That approach might have been more effective if he hadn't already plastered the email onto Slashdot.
If you need to ask the question "do I need a lawyer" then the answer is probably yes.