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European Court Finds Copyright Doesn't Automatically Trump Freedom Of Expression

First time accepted submitter admiral snackbar writes "The European Court of Human Rights has declared that the copyright monopoly stands in direct conflict with fundamental Human Rights, as defined in the European Union and elsewhere. 'For the first time in a judgment on the merits, the European Court of Human Rights has clarified that a conviction based on copyright law for illegally reproducing or publicly communicating copyright protected material can be regarded as an interference with the right of freedom of expression and information under Article 10 of the European Convention [on Human Rights]. Such interference must be in accordance with the three conditions enshrined in the second paragraph of Article 10 of the Convention. This means that a conviction or any other judicial decision based on copyright law, restricting a person's or an organization's freedom of expression, must be pertinently motivated as being necessary in a democratic society, apart from being prescribed by law and pursuing a legitimate aim.'"

32 of 214 comments (clear)

  1. At last! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I, for one, welcome our new european overlords!

    1. Re:At last! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I, for one, welcome our new european overlords!"

      This is nothing terribly new. Notice that it does NOT say that the concept of Copyrights is inimical to freedom of expression, it says that under certain defined circumstances, copyright CAN interfere with freedom of expression.

      The U.S. has long recognized this: it's called "fair use".

      So if you're looking for some kind of revamping of U.S. copyrights a a result of this, you're probably dreaming.

  2. Eat me, Euroskeptics! by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While the EU has had a lot of criticism (some of it justified) for it's costs, it's impenetrable bureaucracy, and it's tendency to focus on the minutia rather than bigger problems, I think that it would be impossible to practically enact vital laws and opinions such as this on an international scale without it. Big government may be out of fashion on the other side of the pond, but it certainly has it's merits over here (where our governmental needs are different) and this kind of check against the increasing pressure and influence of fanatical commercial interests on the interpretation and drafting of legislation is exactly what we need right now to restore a little sanity to the situation.

    1. Re:Eat me, Euroskeptics! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      While I agree with your main point, this ruling is from the European Court of Human Rights which is not an EU institution. All member states of the EU, and indeed the EU itself, is bound by the European Convention on Human Rights -- but so are several other countries that are not EU member states.

    2. Re:Eat me, Euroskeptics! by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      While the EU has had a lot of criticism (some of it justified) for it's costs, it's impenetrable bureaucracy, and it's tendency to focus on the minutia rather than bigger problems, I think that it would be impossible to practically enact vital laws and opinions such as this on an international scale without it.

      An ironic comment, given that this ruling was made by the European Court of Human Rights, which is not a part of the EU machinery (and in fact applies in far more countries and has been around for far longer).

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    3. Re:Eat me, Euroskeptics! by foobsr · · Score: 4, Informative
      European Convention on Human Rights

      Just for some thoughts, quote: "The Convention prohibits in particular: torture and inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, slavery and forced labour, death penalty, arbitrary and unlawful detention, and discrimination in the enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set out in the Convention."

      (to be found at http://www.echr.coe.int/ECHR/EN/Header/The+Court/Introduction/Information+documents/ )

      How is that in the US of A?

      CC.

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    4. Re:Eat me, Euroskeptics! by foobsr · · Score: 4, Informative
      The EU isn't that big.

      Wikipedia: "With a combined population of over 500 million inhabitants, or 7.3% of the world population, the EU, in 2011, generated the largest nominal world gross domestic product (GDP) of 17.6 trillion US dollars, representing approximately 20% of the global GDP when measured in terms of purchasing power parity."

      CC.

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    5. Re:Eat me, Euroskeptics! by YttriumOxide · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's simple really. Just remember that the apostrophe ALWAYS represents one or more letters having between removed. In the case of the possessive, it's due to a missing "e" that used to be used (the possessive form was made with "es" - e.g. "Peter's cat" really represents "Peteres cat"). This is quite visible in other Germanic languages, but quite hidden in English due to the weird history of our language.

      In the case of the possessive "its", it was never written "ites" and therefore does not receive an apostrophe. Similarly, "his" and "her" also never had the "es" ending and therefore also do not contain an apostrophe.

      "It's" contains an apostrophe for the missing "i" from "it is" (or in some cases the missing "ha" from "it has") and so it becomes very clear that the apostrophe is required.

      If all that is too confusing or simply too hard to remember, relate things back to "his" and "her". You can grammatically replace "its" with "his" and still make sense, so it similarly doesn't take an apostrophe ("Its impenetrable bureaucracy" -> "His impenetrable bureaucracy" (no problem)). "It's" on the other hand can never be grammatically replaced by "his" ("It's got impenetrable bureaucracy" -> "His got impenetrable bureaucracy" (meaningless)).

      The alternative (and more common, but less obvious to me personally) method is to go the other way around and mentally try replacing "its"/"it's" with "it is" to see if that fits.

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  3. Take a look at that statue of liberty. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's something you owe the french.

    Your freedom.

    And most of your constitution.

    1. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Can they ask the french for a refund or a replacement for faulty merchandise ?

    2. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And some statue of a woman with a torch. Which, ironically became the symbol of hope/freedom for Europeans fleeing to the U.S.

    3. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      And which ironically is a plagiarism of another statue, and therefore copyright infringment?

    4. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by demonlapin · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, that's something we owe Louis XVI. France was most assuredly not a democratic state at the time. As for the Constitution, Montesquieu was a large influence, no doubt, but again was not exactly a democrat or even a supporter of American independence. Freedom wears a crown, eh?

    5. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by JAlexoi · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, that's something we owe Louis XVI. France was most assuredly not a democratic state at the time. As for the Constitution, Montesquieu was a large influence, no doubt, but again was not exactly a democrat or even a supporter of American independence. Freedom wears a crown, eh?

      A) You're confounding democracy with freedom. It's the same mistake people make when they talk about capitalism, while thinking of free market. Or socialism/communism and totalitarianism/dictatorship.
      B) Freedom may wear a crown. Remember that constitutional monarchy failed in France, yet England's monarchy was/is very much like a constitutional monarchy(it's limited by many laws, yet there is no formal "constitution"). The constitution of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was written by the king!

    6. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by qbast · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your constitution is fine. You are just holding it wrong.

    7. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 5, Funny

      Have you tried restoring it to it's default settings?

    8. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by six025 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Have you tried repair permissions,?

      FTFY. You're welcome.

    9. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by Schmorgluck · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Louis XVI had some progressive velleities, but lacked political acumen (though he wasn't as stupid as he is often portrayed - by today's standards, he was a huge nerd).

      La Fayette initially came to the help of the newborn USA by his own decision and with his own means, when France was reluctant to confront the English. Later, he convinced Louis XVI to help. I won't go into details but a lot of occult funding was involved, with the implication of the famous playwright Beaumarchais at a point.

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    10. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Given that at least some parts of Magna Carta are technically still enforce I don't think you can say England is very much like a constitutional monarchy, it *is* a constitutional monarchy.

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    11. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by DrXym · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also, many European countries have a civil law system thanks to Napoleon. He may have been a dictator but he was a rather enlightened dictator for the time and swept away privileges, charters and other laws going all the way back to medieval times and replaced them with a civil code that enshrined many personal freedoms.

    12. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by c0lo · · Score: 3

      Have you tried restoring it to it's default settings?

      I'm afraid such an operation will require a reboot: the default settings don't make sense anymore in the context of such an advanced state of internal corruption and aberrant operational mode.

      --
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    13. Re:Take a look at that statue of liberty. by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Funny

      The hypervisor that runs the constitution was rooted.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  4. Details by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    TFA is crap, but links to a post with more details.

    the applicants were Robert Ashby Donald, Marcio Madeira Moraes and Olivier Claisse, respectively an American, a Brazilian and a French national living in New-York, Paris and Le Perreux-sur-Marne. All three are fashion photographers. The case concerned their conviction in France for copyright infringement following the publication of pictures on the Internet site Viewfinder of a fashion company run by Mr. Donald and Mr. Moraes. The photos were taken by Mr. Claisse at fashion shows in Paris in 2003 and published without the permission of the fashion houses. The three fashion photographers were ordered by the Court of Appeal of Paris to pay fines between 3.000 and 8.000 euro and an award of damages to the French design clothing Federation and five fashion houses, all together amounting to 255.000 euro

    Notably,

    In the case of Ashby Donald and others v. France the European Court of Human Rights did not need to undertake itself such a balancing exercise, as it found that the French judicial authorities have done this exercise in a proper way. As the Court stated, it saw no reason to disagree with the findings by the French courts

    I.e., the ruling didn't do squat to help the defendants in this case.

    1. Re:Details by rmstar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I.e., the ruling didn't do squat to help the defendants in this case.

      No, because it was a purely commericial issue.

      The clarification of the court concerns things like leaked documents that trigger a political scandal, which in the past have been successfully taken down on copyright grounds. The court has made it clear that it intends to stop this practice.

      It is interesting that the court felt the need to clarify this issue even though it had no bearing on the case at hand.

  5. Explains a lot by benjfowler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Might go some way towards explaining the massive right-wing hate for the European Court of Human Rights and petty tabloid hate of 'European human rights' in general.

    Human rights and (rightwing politics, elite interests) of all colours generally don't get along.

    1. Re:Explains a lot by alexgieg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Human rights and (rightwing politics, elite interests) of all colours generally don't get along.

      Sometimes in the effects, but not in the causes.

      For example, libertarians are usually all for human rights. What they are against are the "human duties" that come with many of those rights. So, as long as the right is something like "an human has a right to pursue happiness", that's fine. If it says "a man has a right to be happy", and this means someone else having the obligation to make him happy, not so much.

      Conservatives, on the other hand, generally aren't agains the rights themselves, but they have serious issues with the hierarchy of said rights. For example, abortion. A conservative (a western one at least) does think a woman should have right over her own body. If he didn't think so he'd be against anti-rape laws, which are entirely based on the right for a women to decide who she lets or doesn't let inside her body. What he doesn't agree with is that said right be placed above a human (fetus or not) right to live. Which in turn they don't think should be placed above the right of society to kill those humans who threaten it the most.

      It should be noted too that, from the perspective of many rightwingers, it's the left that doesn't respect many human rights, such as the right to fully express one's own personal beliefs wherever one is just because of one's profession by, for example, forcing one to remove religious symbols from one's work desk or wall.

      Gray areas. This theme is full of them.

      --
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    2. Re:Explains a lot by alexgieg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well no, that's a lot of bullshit. What he doesn't agree with is that a fetus is not the same as a person.

      The argument doesn't rely on that. If we are distinguish a fetus from a person, it's still a matter of an hierarchy of values. IMHO, it'd look roughly like this (subject to lots of refinements):

      a) Liberal: person life > women rights over body > killing society threatening life > fetus life

      b) Libertarian (typical): women rights over body > person life > killing society threatening life > fetus life

      c) Conservative (typical): killing society threatening life > person life > fetus life > women rights over body

      d) Conservative (Catholic): fetus life > killing society threatening life > person life > women rights over body

      And so on and so forth. Mix and match to find other minor political ideologies.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    3. Re:Explains a lot by YttriumOxide · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't know why, the MAFIAA and artists are generally very left-wing.

      Only from a US (and to a somewhat lesser extent, UK) point of view. Remember that "left" from a (mainland) European perspective is generally viewed as significantly further left of "left" from a US perspective. Some policies of the US left are seen as draconianly "right" by many Europeans.

      It tends to be the case that in Europe, the word "liberal" still contains the core meaning of the word "liberty". It's definitely a moderated and controlled liberty (so, not "libertarian") but the goal is to promote as much freedom as possible for the greatest number of people.

      This is the case whether you agree or disagree with HOW it is done (e.g. higher taxes may seem to be the opposite of "liberty"; but it's viewed in context of using the money to promote the liberty of those who have less without impinging TOO greatly on those who have more, increasing the baseline liberty enjoyed by citizens overall (remembering for an extreme case of the opposite that in a Dictatorship, the Dictator himself has "complete liberty" at the expense of all others; this represents the most possible liberty for one; but the least for the population as a whole. At a lesser scale, the US at present provides a high level of liberty for those of moderate to high income, but less for those that are in the lowest income classes)).

      In my understanding, the US left tend to be more in favour of the "war on drugs" than the US right; but the typical European left tends to be against it, with the typical European right being moderately in favour of it.

      The biggest problem of course comes from the fact that "left" and "right" are pretty crappy descriptors of politics. Being in favour of higher taxes and a strong social welfare/benefit system really has almost nothing to do with your policies on gun control, which in turn usually has nothing to do with your policy on immigration. I can easily imagine multiple parties all with different platforms on each of these that would never fit in to the neat "left"/"right" divide that is so commonly thrown about.

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  6. Re:What? by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Could you explain why you think it's not good?

    Would you like to see political groups broken up for saying something that an individual would have been fine saying? It's happened all over the world in the past - the "legally elected government" cracking down on opposition parties simply because they oppose them, I'd say protecting the right of any organisation to express rational opposition to another is absolutely a requirement of civilised society.

  7. Re:Land of the free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hate to tell you but the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU court but a COE (council of europe) court.

  8. Re:Land of the free by sosume · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Mankind sort-of made a pact with horses. They let you ride on their back and agree to be used for labor, but in return you promise not to kill them for food.
    Similar deals have been made with for instance donkeys, dogs, cats and falcons. They hunt for us, guard us or carry our loads.
    Cows appear much less intelligent and you won't be able to make such a deal. They are basically a meat-milk-excrement factory, barely intelligent enough
    to stay awake. All they do all day is stand around and eat. Therefore we are allowed to eat them.
    On a sidenote, this is the reason I don't eat pig. They are way too intelligent to be brought to the slaughterhouse.

  9. Re:Land of the free by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Huh? People eat all of the animals you listed (except perhaps falcons). Horse meat is taboo in the US, but commonly eaten in France and Italy. Donkey meat is not as common, but still consumed in Europe. Dogs and cats are eaten in Asia. Animals don't really care what you do with them when you die - you are anthropomorphizing.

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