Slashdot Mirror


Collaborative LaTeX Editor With Preview In Your Web Browser

Celarent Darii writes "Slashdot readers have undoubtedly heard of Google Docs and the many other online word processing solutions that run in the browser. However, as a long-time user of TeX and LaTeX, these solutions are not my favorite way of doing things. Wouldn't it be nice to TeX something in your browser? Well, look no further, there is now an online collaborative LaTeX editor with integrated rapid preview. Some fantastic features: quasi-instant preview, automatic versioning of source, easy collaboration and you can even upload files and pictures. Download your project later when you get home. Are you a TeX guru with some masterpieces? Might I suggest uploading them? For the beginner: you can start here."

30 of 99 comments (clear)

  1. Try LyX! by gatzke · · Score: 4, Informative

    LyX is a great free cross-platform document processor that uses LaTeX on the back end for export.

    Not exactly WYSIWYG, but close enough. You export to PS or PDF as needed.

    You can see basically what your equations look like while editing before you tex it. You can still use normal LaTeX commands too, but anyone with basic Word experience can jump right in.

    I have used it for tons of things for over a decade now.

    1. Re:Try LyX! by WillAdams · · Score: 3, Informative

      Agreed.

      LyX is the most innovative opensource tool I've found yet, and one of the most effective --- the book manuscripts which I get which are submitted by LyX users are the cleanest, and most straight-forward, making for the most profitable typesetting jobs.

      I really wish that there were a similar vector graphics tool --- I want something which is parametric and shows both drawn vector and under-lying code and which allows one to edit either representation.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    2. Re:Try LyX! by gatzke · · Score: 2

      I use tgif for vector graphics editing fairly well.

      I have managed to get a couple of scripts to automatically run that let me have WYSIWYG type 1 eps equations in tgif. Click on the equation object in LyX, edit, save and close, the lyx file is dumped to ps then eps and pulled into tgif.

      I have even gotten that to work on a cygwin PC too.

    3. Re:Try LyX! by manicb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For me LyX was "LaTeX with training wheels"; after about a year of LyX I've moved to pure LaTeX for more complex functionality. However, I found LaTeX far less intimidating that it might have been as I was already familiar with the concepts and with the names of most functions.

      Where it really excels though is in the well-thought-out system of keyboard shortcuts. I used it in the final year of my degree to take down lecture notes, including equations and derivations, and found I was generally able to keep up with a blackboard. Try that with Equation Editor!

    4. Re:Try LyX! by lannocc · · Score: 2

      I want something which is parametric and shows both drawn vector and under-lying code and which allows one to edit either representation.

      Agreed! all sophisticated GUI applications should operate in a sort of "CAD" mode, where GUI actions are displayed as commands and vice-versa.

    5. Re:Try LyX! by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 2

      Actually AutoCAD has an integrated lisp interpreter, so you could load Visual Lisp files and edit the source and see the output. There might be other programs like this elsewhere, but I know AutoCad let's you do this. There are lots of Visual Lisp files on the net.

      You could also use emacs to do some drawing in SVG format, rendering it using the Emacs SVG mode. You could also write it all in elisp and use an s-expression to xml conversion script in an auto-revert buffer. Whether you would want to do that is of course a wholly different matter.

    6. Re:Try LyX! by frisket · · Score: 2

      Oooh handy! I was just trying to figure out how I'd get some people at my company to face the terrifying interface of LaTeX (seriously, it looks like an IDE)

      That's basically what it is: an IDE for creating PDFs.

  2. Awesome by cryptizard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most exciting thing I've seen all day! Right now I use a subversion repository to collaborate with my coauthors, but my advisor isn't very technical and can't seem to figure it out half the time. This is going to be much easier.

    1. Re:Awesome by JohnHammersley · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Most exciting thing I've seen all day! Right now I use a subversion repository to collaborate with my coauthors, but my advisor isn't very technical and can't seem to figure it out half the time. This is going to be much easier.

      Thanks - we've designed writeLaTeX to make it easier to collaborate especially with users who are new to LaTeX or used to WYSIWYG editors. (I'm one of the developers of writeLaTeX and have just returned from my valentine meal out to find us on slashdot!!) Hope the site has been performing ok during the spike in traffic, and if you've any questions just let me know or contact us through the site. Any and all feedback appreciated! John

  3. Re:Online, closed source. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2
    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  4. Re:First by show+me+altoids · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm allergic to it, so I use sheepskin instead.

    --
    I feel sorry for people that don't drink, because when they get up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel
  5. Not just this one. by Skidge · · Score: 5, Informative

    While the summary makes it sound like this is some breakthrough idea, there are several similar sites out there:

    https://www.sharelatex.com/

    http://spandex.io/

    And others, I'm sure. Is the submitter the owner of this particular version? The marketing speak is a bit over-the-top.

    I used sharelatex for a group project last semester and it worked fine. Several features were added since then that make it likely I'll use it again.

    1. Re:Not just this one. by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Is the submitter the owner of this particular version?

      I wish I were. Nope, just a fan - sorry for the over enthusiasm.

      Some other people also gave me by message these sites: http://www.scribtex.com/ as well as this one emulating Google docs: http://docs.latexlab.org/

      Didn't know that all these services were available. Only found this by accident a few days ago and found it really useful, hence the story submission.

    2. Re:Not just this one. by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

      this one emulating Google docs: http://docs.latexlab.org/ [latexlab.org]

      That one claims to integrate with, not emulate, Google Docs.

  6. Latex outside academia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I loved using Latex when I was in school. I used it not only for dissertations, but also for assignments. But I can't find any use for it outside academia. At least not at my current job. Does anyone have any stories where they use Latex outside a university?

    1. Re:Latex outside academia by WillAdams · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I work in publishing, so use it quite a bit for any .pdf manipulation which isn't suited to pdftk, and which justifies it (as opposed to using Enfocus PitStop). Examples:

        - in-house ad design system for HS ads in phone books
        - batch processing ads to add a yellow or white background, or to scale them, sometimes asymmetrically
        - batch print graphics w/ filenames --- one instance of that was a several thousand page government publication
        - print processed graphics side-by-side w/ the original to make proofreading easier (while I worked up an AppleScript which would page forward in both .pdfs displayed in Adobe Acrobat w/ a single click people never used it)
        - unreleased system for creating galley versions of magazine / journal articles when the source text was in Typo3
        - custom typesetting system for custom story books, since taken off-line

      I also use it for my own design and typesetting:

        - the freely distributed .pdf version of Mike Brotherton's Star Dragon: http://www.mikebrotherton.com/2005/04/20/new-star-dragon-pdf/ (this design made it into the Memoir documentclass along w/ some other things I contributed)
        - some entries in the TeX Showcase: http://www.tug.org/texshowcase/onetype.pdf and http://www.tug.org/texshowcase/peace_on_earth.pdf
        - books which I typeset and print so as to bind them by hand: http://mysite.verizon.net/william_franklin_adams/portfolio/typography/thebookoftea.pdf

      William

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    2. Re:Latex outside academia by Mahalalel · · Score: 2

      I used it recently at work to write a research paper. The formatting and presentation is much more professional than anything created in Word. My wife and I also republished some public domain works, re-typesetting the books and cleaning up the pictures. The Memoir class was invaluable for this. Other than that I guess it's mostly letters and little projects of my own.

    3. Re:Latex outside academia by N7DR · · Score: 2

      Does anyone have any stories where they use Latex outside a university?

      I've never been a fan of LaTeX, but I use TeX for novels, and have done for about two decades now.

    4. Re:Latex outside academia by frisket · · Score: 2

      My consultancy develops LaTeX systems for various industries, and we also do typesetting for publishers through LaTeX. It's used extensively outside academia (see the list of consultants at but most people keep it quiet because it gives them an advantage over their competitors (there now! I've let the cat out of the bag...)

  7. Writing LaTeX directly is often unnecessary by CRCulver · · Score: 2

    Talking with peers in the TeX world, I find that few professionals are writing in LaTeX directly anymore. LaTeX's typesetting abilities remain sexy, but it is far between to keep a document in a semantic markup like Docbook XML, transforming it to LaTeX via an XSL stylesheet only when one wants to produce final print output.

    Writing a LaTeX document directly might be OK for students who do only one or two papers a year, or someone who needs to quickly get a math notation graphic. But if LaTeX is something you do regularly, far better to setup a workflow where it is just a stage transforming data kept in a more structured format.

    1. Re:Writing LaTeX directly is often unnecessary by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Informative

      LaTeX is basically a write-only language. Almost nothing else can read it except for other TeX variants. And TeX is pretty much a one-trick pony. It does only one thing particularly well: produce fixed-layout PostScript/PDF pages. Other output formats are bolted-on hacks. The problem is that PDF and PostScript are terrible for electronic publishing because of wide variations in screen size and resolution. All the fancy typesetting that looks great on an 8.5"x11" printed page looks lousy when you shrink the PDF down to fit on a seven inch Kindle or Nook screen. For this reason, most electronic publishing is done using HTML so that the reading devices can reflow the content freely to fit the screen. (This is arguably less true for textbooks, mind you.)

      Although I'm told that the LaTeX path to HTML has improved a lot since I last tried to use it, you're still starting from source material that was designed for fixed-layout publishing, complete with formatting instructions, and trying to cram that into a non-fixed-layout publishing scheme. Such an inherently lossy transformation can never feasibly produce results that are as good as you would get if you started out with a proper separation between the formatting information and the content, e.g. authoring in DocBook XML and transforming it to HTML and LaTeX as post-processing steps.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:Writing LaTeX directly is often unnecessary by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      I suggest you look up what "write-only" means before you spout bullshit. Hint: it means "hard to read, and thus hard to maintain", with Perl often being given as an example .

      I maintain my statement. It is a fundamentally hard-to-read language by its very nature because of the lack of any easy-to-parse delineation between markup and content. It is possible—easy even—to write TeX code that would take weeks to unravel enough to fully understand what's going on or debug. Just take a look at any complex macro package and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about.

      So Spanish is a useless language too, as almost nobody can understand it but other Spanish-speakers.

      That's really not a fair analogy. Because the TeX language is so malleable, TeX requires a turing machine just to parse it correctly. As a result, AFAIK, all the TeX interpreters out there (except for one obscure variant from 20+ years ago) are built on top of the actual TeX source code. For this reason, TeX is like PostScript in that it makes a decent language for print-based typesetting, but a remarkably bad language to use as input to any non-print-based-typesetting tools.

      In contrast, Spanish can be easily translated into other languages, and is not a monoculture. Most human languages that are spoken only by the descendants of a single person have already died out.

      "A boat does only one thing particularly well -- travelling on water". Producing fixed-layout .pdfs is pretty bloody useful for very, very many applications. And produces those so that they actually look good, and the author can focus on content and structure without having to worry (much) about layout.

      Ah, but you missed my whole point. I never said that PDFs aren't useful, or that TeX isn't useful. What I said was that both are lousy source formats, because they are easy to convert to, and hard to convert away from. Good source formats are easy to convert away from, because that's what they're designed for.

      If you author your content in a language that was actually designed to be read by a wide range of apps, such as DocBook, you get the exact same benefits as authoring in TeX, because it is trivial to translate that content into TeX and use a TeX interpreter to produce those fixed-layout PDFs. The only difference is that by starting with XML, you don't have the huge impedance mismatch when translating that content into an eBook format like EPUB or MOBI.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  8. Re:Bakoma costs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You neglect to mention it costs 55 euros at its cheapest.

  9. Purpose of LaTeX by Ossifer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While there is certainly value in continuous as-you-type output rendering of LaTex, remember that the purpose of LaTeX is typesetting, not word processing. The value is that you describe to (La)TeX how you want things to be rendered and rely upon it doing the right thing, which it nearly always does, beautifully.

    You can change something, restructure, re-order, re-design etc. and everything falls perfectly (usually) into place. This is not the case with the WYSIWYG word processing systems--the closest they get to this is the rather limited "styles" presets.

  10. .eps files not yet supported by sustik · · Score: 2

    \includegraphics[width=0.49\textwidth]{numiter.eps}

    When I tried to upload the numiter.eps file, I am getting a message that it has an unsupported extension.
    -Matyas

    1. Re:.eps files not yet supported by jdleesmiller · · Score: 2

      I'm one of the developers. We use pdflatex on the back end, so you're right: eps files aren't yet supported, but we are working on a converter. Thanks for the feedback :)

  11. Thanks from us at WriteLaTeX by JohnHammersley · · Score: 2

    Thanks to Timothy for posting about writeLaTeX on here - I'm one of the developers and just got in from my Valentines day meal out to see the post! It's great to see the whole cloud-based LaTeX community taking off (as others have pointed out, there are lots of options out there for online LaTeX editing) - we've done a lot of work with the guys at LaTeX-Community.org and TeXample.net to allow all of their LaTeX examples to be opened in writeLaTeX with a single click for editing and sharing - we hope this is helping new and existing LaTeX users work together more effectively. Thanks for all the feedback - more to come from us soon, so we hope you like what we've done so far :-) John

  12. Re:Bakoma by frisket · · Score: 2

    There is a pretty good looking editor for Latex called Bakoma. What I have never understood with latex is that it is hard to find an editor that does exactly what this website does. You type on the left and it appears on the right. But I want one step further. You also can edit on the right.

    The problem with that is that for many graphical interactions there will be more than one interpretation, so a computer cannot know what you actually wanted to do: all it can see is the effect of you having done it. If you can solve that non-contiguity, you'll have a really nice, saleable product...

  13. Re:Internet Age by frisket · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I was in college and enamored with all things OSS I tried really hard to get into LaTeX. But it seems to me that as time progresses and our method of interacting with our computers via GUIs is more entrenched that it's kind of a dying notion. Of course, there are people who still use it (and will undoubtedly loudly criticize this post), but I would be willing to wager that it's dwindling.

    Certainly not in my experience. On the contrary, what I see of LaTeX is growing. A lot of people who encountered it in college were poorly taught, poorly advised, and were given very poor documentation, and they assumed it was just for math/phys/eng geeks. But the quality of doc has improved massively, and the biggest growth area now is the Humanities, who have outgrown Word and are looking for something more controllable.

  14. Re:Continuous rendering - instant validation by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 2

    I do believe some people are working on that, but actually with the speed of today's machines you can compile most documents (even fairly large documents) in about 1-2 seconds tops, of course depending on your machine. On my notebook it is almost instantaneous for documents of 10 pages in length. Thus you can just put a view buffer (xdvi window) on auto refresh and have autosave set to 10 seconds with a compile hook and you get very good results, but with a lag that you might not find acceptable.

    It might be good to ask the developers of the site to see what they do - they must have some sort of compiler tricks to handle all those concurrent demands.

    But to be honest I like LaTeX and TeX exactly for the reason that it doesn't render the document all at once. To me, writing is a bit like composing music - you work away at the different sections, working from sentence to sentence, paragraph by paragraph as the thoughts flow according to their inner harmony, and only afterwards do you get the orchestra together to hear what it sounds like. In my opinion writing is more of an intellectual art rather than a visual one. Writing a paper or even a letter is a lot like programming and TeX appeals to this style of working by putting the structure around the text and actually 'compiling' the document for others to use. It is first put in your mind clearly and only after compiling is it for others, much like a composer writes his music down before anyone hears it. Some people like to see what they are doing, and for them programs like InDesign are better, as they can move the text around and see how it looks. InDesign is more for painters than composers.

    Pick your tools according to your tastes. I don't think LaTeX ever had the ambition to be for the masses, only to be effective at what it does. The instant preview does have advantages, there is no doubt about that.