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Congress Takes Up Online Sales Tax
head_dunce writes "A bill introduced Thursday by a bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers seeks to make it easier for states to collect sales taxes stemming from online purchases. Amazon is among the e-retailers supporting the proposal, while a lobbying group representing eBay and Overstock.com stands opposed. From the article: '"Small businesses and states alike are suffering from the inability to collect due -- not new -- taxes from purchases made online," said Rep. Steve Womack, R-Ark., adding the legislation is a "bipartisan, bicameral, common-sense solution that promotes states' rights and levels the playing field for our Main Street businesses."'"
I've been noticing that Amazon has been spreading out physical presence in a lot of states in recent years, and in the process cutting deals with those states to suspend sales taxes specifically on them (though a few states wouldn't play ball). So it makes sense to me why they might actually support this. As a big employer in a lot of states, Amazon can continue to create and extend special deals to exempt themselves at the state level, while sticking competing online retailers who don't have so much local presence with a new tax burden. Plus, it also standardizes the now chaotic process a little more at the federal level.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Only idiot politicians give out tax suspensions. Its happened several times with VW and Sony. As soon as the 10 year suspension was up both companies packed up and left.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Because local sales taxes, property taxes, state and federal income taxes, capital gains taxes, and all of the additional fees that people forget are actually just taxes isn't enough, apparently. And of course, the justification is always "well, but when you buy a video game that is shipped from another state, it has to travel over our roads -- so our state incurs an expense, even if the business you did business with is 2,000 miles away".
Of course, they conveniently ignore the fact that the companies doing the delivery of your product (UPS, FEDEX, DHL, etc) already pay taxes for doing business in that state for transporting your good. And buy gas, with included gas taxes for road usage. So, really, what individual states are demanding is additional revenue for incurring absolutely no cost or wear and tear. It's a money grab by a bunch of irresponsible pigs who can't handle what they're already given to budget with.
The big box stores go right along with it, because they're tired of the online competition. That's their only motivation. Somehow, they have this idea that if I have to pay taxes to Amazon for a product they'll deliver to my doorstep in 24-48hrs that I'll change my mind and drive a few miles to go buy the same thing for at least as much and for the same amount of sales tax in their store. Pretty shitty logic. It's less hassle to just go the online route, even with taxes. In fact, I'm more likely to do it just to spite the big box brick and mortar stores.
Anyway, it's a lost cause. It'll be taxed, because the pigs want it taxed. And it won't help anything, because the more money they get, the more they spend. It's just really depressing when you consider how much money you're handing over every April and how little will be done with it, compared to how much of an impact it could make to you. For the taxes I just paid this time around, I could have put a kid through four years of a good state college and had enough left over for them to buy a car. Or I could have helped my mother with her retirement after decades of working in a thankless and harrowing job with no real retirement opportunities or benefits. I could have covered her salary for three and a half years, making retirement a possibility for her. Instead, it'll probably go toward 20% of a drone purchase or installing two speed bumps. And that sort of waste is why people are so disgruntled with paying taxes. If they felt the work and money they are just handing over was being respected and used wisely, they'd feel that sense of "hey, it's my civic duty". When it's just being used as a free pot of money by a bunch of irresponsible pigs, you just feel like you're getting fucked.
People tend to romanticize "Mom & Pop" stores. But having worked in a Mom & Pop grocery store growing up, I'm under no such illusions. The people I worked for were just as greedy and treated their workers just as shitty as Walmart or any of the big box stores. There is nothing inherently noble or morally superior about being a small business on Main Street. It just means you're small, and also on Main Street.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Are you in 3rd grade? The point is that small businesses suffer because customer will go to on-line retailers that don't charge state sales tax. The way State tax laws are written, the consumer is suppose to pay state sales tax from their state - they call it a use tax now. So even though you live in one state and purchase from an on-line retailer that resides in another state, you are still suppose to pay your state's sales tax.
We shouldn't even be looking at sales tax as a revenue source. The reason sales tax is so acceptable is that people don't notice it until it's too late. They don't realize how regressive it is. In fact, people are so oblivious to this tax that it's become the fashionable way to pay for multi-million dollar stadiums. That reason alone is why I buy things online. Because of all these projects, sales taxes in "major" metro areas are approaching 10% and exceed that for hotels, car rentals, bars and restaurants. That's money that's taxed after you've already paid income tax on it.
Would anyone here take a 10% cut in pay? Yet we gladly pass sales taxes that do the same thing.
The U.S. should go back to its roots and use tariffs as the only source of revenue.
Small businesses will suffer because the expense of keeping track of the sales tax they need to collect from every municipality around the country will add one more cost of doing business. For Amazon, that cost is minimal. For a company that is run out of someone's basement by that single individual, it will likely be the difference between being profitable and a waste of time. Small retailers who think that this will make it easier for them to compete with Amazon are dreaming. It will mean that they will never be able to afford to open a website to sell their goods directly to consumers at a distance.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The problem isn't that "state taxes are too big for Amazon to figure out." They've got plenty of legal and tax representation.
The real issue is for SMALL sellers on the internet. Say, people who sell via etsy, or bands that sell albums direct to fans.
Now, suddenly, THOSE people need to understand and properly understand taxes for all 50 states, collect those taxes, and remit them to the proper time to the proper authorities. Oh, with all the necessary paperwork.
You worked for the wrong people then. Most of my relatives are from small towns, and several owned stores and one family a restaurant. On my mom's side, the whole town believed in doing what is best for your neighbor, and if you couldn't afford something you needed, say, at the hardware store, the owner would help you out or cut the price to something you could afford. Probably has something to do with them being Mennonite, but I grew up with that mentality - do something good for your neighbor, and they will do something good for you. Note this is not on the commune - these were former communal Mennonites, but they still got together to build each other's barns and stuff.
So at the end of the year you don't pay a use tax? Hopefully your state doesn't have one. Otherwise congratulations, You've just become a tax evader!
The real problem is voracious government entities that will NEVER be satisfied with how much they take from you. NEVER.
You want fairness? Get rid of the sales tax on the brick and mortar stores. What? We can’t do that need that money! For the children! To buy civilization!
We are WAY past “buying civilization”. The only question discussed by any parasitic government entity is how quickly to kill the host.
And yes, the host is dying. The U.S. is over 100 trillion in the crapper with admitted debt and unfunded government liabilities according to the Dallas Federal Reserve president. We can’t grow our way out of a 100 trillion (and rapidly growing because of massive spending) problem. The U.S. at least, is screwed.
Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
A. It's called a cost of doing business. B. There's this stuff called "software" that is really good at tracking numbers automatically.
So, how much is it going to cost me to get that software? Who is going to update it every time one of those many municipalities changes their tax laws? How much will that cost me? Do you have a clue how complicated it is to keep track of the sales tax laws all throughout the U.S., with different municipalities charging sales tax on different things? Not everything is taxable in every municipality and what is taxable, or not taxable varies from location to location. In addition, How do I keep track of what tax jurisdiction a customer is in (hint, zip codes won't do the trick)?
Sure, you can say, "That's a cost of doing business," of course when you say that what you are saying is "I don't mind stacking the deck in favor of big business."
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Surprise! The Congressman representing (3rd District, encompassing Bentonville, where Wal-Mart's HQ is located) the largest brick-and-mortar retailer in the world is pushing for sales tax on sales made by their main competitors.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
and get the tax rules based on zipcode.
FAIL. Zip codes do not follow municipal boundaries. If you use zip code to determine what tax rate to apply, you will get it wrong a significant percentage of the time. Just because someone has a particular city zip code does not mean that where they live is subject to the tax rate of that city.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison