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Ask Slashdot: Keyboard Layout To Reduce Right Pinky/Ring Finger Usage?

Tooke writes "I've developed focal hand dystonia from playing clarinet. It affects my right pinky (and my ring finger, but to a lesser extent). My pinky isn't totally unusable when typing; however, it isn't nearly as agile as it used to be. When I must press a key with it, I tend to keep the whole finger rigid and move my entire hand instead. I also use my ring finger to press the P and semicolon keys (on QWERTY) which is a bit awkward but better than using the pinky. Thus my question: are there any keyboard layouts that are optimized to reduce right pinky/ring finger usage? I switched to Programmer Dvorak a few years ago, but Dvorak seems to make me use my right hand significantly more than my left. I'm considering mirroring the letter keys so my left hand would be used more. I also came across the Workman layout which looks interesting. I might try using that after switching the numbers and symbols around to be more like Programmer Dvorak. Has anyone been in a similar situation? What else could I do to make typing more comfortable? I've got a long career ahead of me as a programmer (I'm currently a high school senior) and I'd like to take care of my hands as much as possible."

25 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. Left-Handed Dvorak by SaXisT4LiF · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    Fight or flight its all the same
    Live to die another day

    --Ryan
    1. Re:Left-Handed Dvorak by houghi · · Score: 2

      Thanks for that. And it is perfect for typing XNXX.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    2. Re:Left-Handed Dvorak by steelfood · · Score: 2

      There are coder layouts, and typist layouts. Most layouts are for typists. Even DVORAK for one hand is a typist layout. The most used symbols when writing code? Semicolon, period, equals, parenthesis. In some languages, the dollar sign is prevalent too.

      The Workman layout is interesting, but the analysis of each key's reach difficulty is a bit off of what I'm used to. And it's not a programmer's layout either.

      If I had very specific special needs, I'd go with creating a keyboard layout of my own. Start with a key difficulty analysis like the one done for the Workman layout, and change the values to something suitable for my particular situation. Then assign keys from there. Just remember that in addition to symbols, writing code will make use of certain letter characters more than when typing a document.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    3. Re:Left-Handed Dvorak by s.petry · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't take this the wrong way, I admire his will to retrain himself and continue drumming.. but....

      If you are very tone deaf you may be fooled, but any musician can tell the difference between acoustic and electronic percussion. Any drummer I consider "good" uses all 4 appendages. Yes, there are many drummers that make a living using 3 but I don't consider them "good". Rick Allen plays better than them while physically missing a limb.

      Compliment him on his will to continue doing something he enjoyed and made a profession. Compliment him on having a big pair and coming on stage after working his ass off to relearn the drums. But don't claim that people can't tell he's only got 1 arm. Many can, and still think he's a great drummer.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    4. Re:Left-Handed Dvorak by dexotaku · · Score: 2

      As someone with similar issues [but with the opposite hand; my left is nerve-damaged and I can't use the fingers independently] I have to throw in here that the Dvorak-RH layout - which I've been using since 1993 - is a doGsend.

      I still use QWERTY on other peoples' computers, or when forced to by software that ignores the user layout, and I can still type reasonably fast [~45wpm] with only one hand, and I have to say that the Dvorak layout doesn't really help in terms of speed - but it helps incredibly in relieving the strain that typing on QWERTY [and stretching your fingers all about] causes in abundance.

      If you're favouring one hand over the other - even if the one is still somewhat useful - it may make sense to switch layouts just to relieve the strain of stretching across widely-spread keys. You can still assist with the less useful hand.

      The best thing about the Dvorak one-handed layouts is their wide support: every OS I've used since the early 90s supported the layouts, more recently with relatively simple user settings.

      Point of advice though: *don't buy a dedicated Dvorak keyboard* since they're usually ridiculously expensive. reflecting the fact that the only issue I've ever run into is converting an average QWERTY keyboard to the layout [which is a requisite for learning, for most people] is that a lot of current keyboard manufacturers [all of the big names, from my testing] purposefully makes their keyboards such that keys can't be simply re-arranged [assholes!]. Last time I went looking for a replacement keyboard I went through 4 [from logitech, saitek, maybe belkin, and lastly a no-name Chinese wireless] before I found one that could be re-arranged. Otherwise you may have to resort to using key-top labels which can be found relatively inexpensively.

    5. Re:Left-Handed Dvorak by Mal-2 · · Score: 2

      Guitars have been adapted to play by fretting alone. Usually this would be for the purpose of using both hands independently, but it also serves to make them playable with just one hand.

      The three that jump immediately to mind are:
      Chapman Stick
      Warr Guitar
      Megatar

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  2. Working around a treatable condition... by tlambert · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Working around a treatable condition is pretty silly. How about just treating the dystonia? Standard treatment is sensorimotor retraining.

  3. Focal Dystonia by northTbone · · Score: 2

    How exactly is your Dystonia affecting your typing? Focal Task Specific Dystonia, by definition, rarely affects tasks other than those where the the symptoms originate. What treatments have you been seeking to deal with your dystonic symptoms? There are several potential treatments. It seems more productive to deal with your symptoms, rather than try to work around them. I'm a member of the Performing Arts Medicine Association, and can recommend several authors/doctors if you are interested. There are also several treatments you could try without medical supervision/assistance.

    1. Re:Focal Dystonia by northTbone · · Score: 2

      http://artsmed.org/ also http://www.sciandmed.com/mppa/ its a Pubmed referenced, peer reviewed journal. Focal Dystonia is a pretty specific disorder, and is more common among musicians than most other occupational groups. Finger splints are an effective mode of sensorimotor retraining. I can see how this could be applied to both your typing and clarinet symptoms.

  4. so... just don't use them? by X0563511 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I almost never use my ring or pinky while typing, on either side.

    Just type so that it feels natural to you. Nothing forces you to use any specific fingers.

    Because I learned to type in such a "natural" form, instead of learning home rows and specific zones for each finger, I find I can easily adapt to different typing positions and injuries. Eg, if my index finger on either hand had a cut on it, it only takes a few minutes for me to adjust and type at a near full speed without that finger.

    While I'm not the -fastest- typer around, I still type pretty damn fast and with little fatigue.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    1. Re:so... just don't use them? by corychristison · · Score: 2

      I, too, seem to share the same typing style as you.

      I'm in my mid twenties and have been coding since grade 5 (roughly age 10). Starting with HTML, Css and JavaScript/ActionScript.

      I remember learning home row in grade 4 and completely abandoning it when I realized it was so inefficient for the stuff I enjoyed to do. On an unrelated note I was banned from school computters in grade 6 thru 8 (highscool starts in gr 9 here) for "hacking".

    2. Re:so... just don't use them? by corychristison · · Score: 2

      Not a particularily fun story. I'm a little fuzzy on the exact details(this was almost 15 years ago), but I am certain it was because the school relied on Active Directory (or something, I really dont know... whatever it was back then on Win98) and I discovered you could unplug the ethernet port, type in any random username and password and it would fail to login, but then still allow you to gain a desktop. Plug the ethernet port back in and voila, you had access to the internet.

      I also recall the good ol' local Administrator account in highschool had a blank password (this was XP). So you could essentially do the same thing, without needing to unplug the Ethernet port, by simply choosing Local machine in the Domain setting at the login prompt.

  5. Playing Clarinet? by Art+Challenor · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who knew that learning to reed in school could be harmful.

    1. Re:Playing Clarinet? by dyingtolive · · Score: 2

      I C your sense of humor is pretty sharp.

      --
      Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
    2. Re:Playing Clarinet? by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      I'd like to note that joke was a little flat, to me anyway.

  6. Single-hand Maltron by alter-memo · · Score: 2

    You can try with a single-hand maltron keyboard. I have used the two-hand version and it is quite comfortable for me.

    http://www.maltron.com/keyboard-info/single-hand-keyboards.html

  7. Just move your hands by ljw1004 · · Score: 2

    Can't you just move your hands all around the keyboard?

    I often do that, and type at about 90 words per minute. I'll type both code and prose without using the little finger on my right hand at all, and the ring finger only rarely. It feels much better to have my whole hands flying all over the keyboard. Fixed wrist position always seemed terrible to me from an RSI perspective.

  8. Map right alt to enter by islisis · · Score: 2

    Simplest solution I can think of is to map right alt to enter (which I would do even without injury anyway), and then some comfortable substitution for p, ; and /. Some candidate keys would be capslock and tilde, or probably better some chording combinations like left alt o, l and .

    The best solution might involve buying a Kinesis Contoured, which should save stress from pinkies on both hands as it has an extended thumb keywell.

  9. Use a programmable keyboard by dshk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can use a Kinesis Advantage keyboard. First, important keys are pressed with the thumb, not the right fingers (Enter, Ctrl, Backspace). Second, the keyboard is programmable, so you can map all problematic keys to the left side and type them together with AltGr (right ALT). I am already using this method, because our national characters take the place of almost every symbol characters, which are important for coding. It is working well.

  10. QWERTY. by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 2

    No joke. Look at the below picture--the pinky is so under-utilized in QWERTY it looks looks like it has been cut off in the diagram!
    http://infohost.nmt.edu/~shipman/ergo/fig4.jpg

    But really, probably any decently-designed keyboard layout spreads the workload relatively evenly across the fingers. Dvorak does use the pinky and ring fingers quite a bit though, as a result of its design to favor the right hand. I have switched from QWERTY to Dvorak back in early December, and am currently learning Colemak as a second layout... I haven't used Colemak enough to come to a personal opinion on its finger usage, but from what I read it's pretty well evenly split between the fingers.

    Maybe you could go to the CarpalX site and download the program, try setting it up to minimize the use of those fingers and run it yourself to see what it generates. The pre-made fully-optimized CarpalX layouts would probably be of little use, because they were not designed to avoid those fingers at all costs... they were made with the idea of having eight fully-functional fingers, while only slightly reducing the load on those fingers due to their natural weakness.

    Check out this tool to get a nice overview of the hand, finger, row, etc. usage and other stats that might be useful:
    http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/

  11. Do it the American Way by EmagGeek · · Score: 2, Funny

    You have a disability that affects your ability to work.

    Go on Disability.

    Sue the Clarinet maker and anyone who ever encouraged you to play Clarinet for the difference between your SSDI checks and whatever you would have made as a programmer, including any and all attorney fees and court costs.

    Maybe even go for treble damages (har har) since whomever is responsible for forcing you to play clarinet either knew or should have known that there was a significant risk of a permanent disabling injury, and was therefore grossly negligent in placing your entire lifetime career in unreasonable jeopardy.

    Then, you won't need to worry about keyboard layouts.

  12. MUCH SIMPLER SOLUTION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I lost the use of my left pinky in a childhood accident. After I graduated and starting programming professionally I found that the lifeless finger really interfered with my typing. So I quit programming and became a gangster. After a few years I got involved in the lucrative black market whale meat trade, necessitating a move to Japan. Fifteen years on I was, despite my lily-white ass, trusted by the locals and initiated as a full yakuza. The next day I called the boss a cunt and he required me to cut off my left pinky to atone.

    Finally rid of the useless digit I moved back to the States and resumed my career as a programmer. Don't be wasting your time with non-standard keyboards.

  13. Layouts aren't important... but Dvorak has issues by jaffray · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Speaking as someone who's still struggling with the extensor tendinitis he developed as a young programmer over 15 years ago, with hundreds of nights of pain and hundreds of thousands in lost earnings as a result...

    First: It's a natural hacker impulse to focus on keyboard layouts and hardware and other fun toys like that. Resist that urge. The importance of that stuff is tiny compared to good overall ergonomic habits, good posture, taking breaks, and managing tension. Get all the help that you can on those issues. Watch your own habits. Have someone else watch you. Make adjustments.

    Second: Having said that... when I was first having hand trouble, I switched to Dvorak. This was, for me, a very poor decision. As you've noticed, Dvorak overloads the right pinky finger, which is a bad idea on a typewriter, but a horrible idea on a computer keyboard where other often-used keys are on the right edge of the layout.

    Moving the entire arm to hit Enter and other right-edge keys with a non-pinky finger helped some, but not enough. After a couple weeks of increasing right-pinky pain, I simply swapped the L and P keys, so the commonly-used L was on the left index instead of the right pinky.

    The L/P swap helped with the overloading, but exacerbated my second problem with a new layout, which was greater tension while typing. Even though I felt comfortable with Dvorak on a conscious level, I was still sometimes tensing up before keystrokes as my fingers weren't sure which way to go for an extra few milliseconds. And I was still having to use QWERTY keyboards often enough that I couldn't completely banish that muscle memory. Eventually I just switched back to QWERTY. More finger-mileage, yes, but is finger-mileage really the issue? It wasn't for me.

    Third: No, really. Spend your time on the annoying difficult-to-scientifically-analyze meatspace issues like posture, not on keyboard layouts.

  14. Re:What you call all of us... by Z34107 · · Score: 2

    Don't sell yourself short! You already know where all the keys are, so learning to touch type won't take you long at all. Just rest your fingers on home row (index fingers on the "F" and "J" keys with the notches, thumbs on the spacebar.) Strike each key with the nearest finger, and return the hand to home row afterwards. Ta da! You're a typist. I'd be surprised if it took you longer than an afternoon to get back to your old speed, and you'll keep getting faster as you continue to type.

    And don't say it's "irrelevant"--that's like some naughts gentleman wondering why anyone would pay for broadband when his AOL always worked just fine. Just change where you rest your hands, and you'll get a free broadband upgrade.

    --
    DATABASE WOW WOW
  15. Re:thumb return by Osgeld · · Score: 2

    its not that useless in programming