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California Professors Unveil Proposal To Attack Asteroids With Lasers
An anonymous reader writes "Yesterday's twin events with invading rocks from outer space — the close encounter with asteroid 2012 DA14, and the killer meteorite over Russia that was more than close — have brought the topic of defending mankind against killer asteroids back into the news. The Economist summarizes some of the ideas that have been bandied about, in a story that suggests Paul Simon's seventies hit "Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover": Just push it aside, Clyde. Show it the nuke, Luke. Gravity tug, Doug. The new proposal is an earth orbiting, solar-powered array of laser guns called DE-STAR (Directed Energy Solar Targeting of AsteRoids) from two California-based professors, physicist Philip Lubin (UCSB) and industrial statistician Gary Hughes (Cal Polytechnic State). Lubin and Hughes say their system could be developed and deployed in a range of sizes depending on the size of the target: DE-STAR 2, about the size of the International Space Station (100 meters) could nudge comets and asteroids from their orbits, while DE-STAR 4 (100 times larger than ISS) could evaporate an asteroid 500 meters in diameter (10 times larger than 2012 DA14) in a year. Of course, this assumes that the critters could be spotted early enough for the lasers to do their work."
There was also a meteor that was seen from San Francisco
The Death Star
Killer meteorite over Russia. Yeah, sure. In your dreams.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
,,, meet jerk.
... fricking lasers? Would there be sharks?
Let them come! I will welcome our new overlord mineral invaders!
Wouldn't it be much more efficient (and cheaper) to just use mirror arrays to focus the sunlight directly, rather than use expensive and inefficient solar panels to process the sunlight into a laser first?
Then, instead of sitting uselessly in space 99.999% of the time (or maybe 100%, even), they could focus sunlight onto ground-based power stations (or space-based, if we actually get mining operations going up there), and help pay for themselves.
It would also be a bit harder to weaponize. A DE(ath)-STAR in orbit? What could possibly go wrong?
I think the hard part is spotting them faster than laser shots.
There are not that many options for seeing something faster than speed of light...
How about boring mirrors in LEO? They need not weight much, but an array of mirrors could reflect a non-trivial amount of energy onto an asteroid per pound of spacelaunch. Not a satellite designer, but I'm guessing that 100m2 of mirror will weight less than a kilo, and that some creativity will let you get a lot of mirror per kilo of nav and positioning equipment on the bus.
Sorry for being a pessimist, but I'm old enough to remember Ronald Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative
Consider a trillion dollar weapon of mass destruction in space.
It will never get through Congress.
There will be construction delays lasting a century.
Your enemies will be able to destroy it, cheaply.
Bright high school students will play with it.
Don't mess with The Phone Company. Piss them off and you'll be using two tin cans and a piece of string.
Why attack asteroids with lasers? Aren't asteroids without lasers dangerous enough?
Ezekiel 23:20
After hacking the controls of the DE-STAR a Supervillain demands a ransom of $1 trillion or he will turn the lasers on Earth. Only an International Man of Mystery or a Double Naught Spy can save us from the photonic clutches of, who? Dr. Evil or SPECTRE?"
Coming to a theater near you.
The closer you are to the code, the happier you are. - Ancient Geek Proverb
I think it's great: the Earth clearly needs a death star to defend against incoming asteroids, comets and meteorites.
It will also come in handy if we ever have a rebellion against our UN space program...
Futurist Traditionalism
I call these interesting people Space Nutters. They have a doomsday religion and believe in it fervently. The odd thing is that they think space is deadly, constantly threatening us, but they also think the solution is to leave this planet to go LIVE in space.
It's only one unfortunate aiming mistake away from an interesting military application. The military industrial complex, now with extra sneakiness.
You are right. We've never been hit by anything larger. We should definitely wait until something gets really, really close before we take any action.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Create an articificial cloud somewhere near Mars, of
RFID-chips. Think of the possibilities.
Also, oblig: "will they use sharks too?"
Try this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manicouagan_crater
Well, you do realize that the proposals to "go live in space" is not about finding a safer place to live, right? The main reason to find other places to live is because it means that no single event can wipe out the whole species (more colloquially known as not having all eggs in one basket). If thinking that makes me a space nutter, well, I guess I'm okay with that.
despite all the Russian politicians drawing attention to themselves, we've just proven that even an unusually sized asteroid isn't a problem worth spending one dime solving. we can keep watch on objects over 35 meters, but anything smaller isn't worth the effort
Why the heck would they put something like this in Earth orbit? That would mean at least some time with no sunlight, and would mean it could only fire the lasers at certain points in the orbit - and would spend a lot of time moving the lasers around to counteract the orbit. Something like this should sit at Lagrange points. If they even talked about putting it in orbit of Earth, they don't have the knowledge to develop something like this. Anyway, they should be placed at Earth-Sun L3, L4, and L5. You'd need to be able to refuel them every once in awhile as these points are only meta-stable and you would definitely need thrusters (just like Earth satellites do).
I don't build my own roads. I don't have my own Department of Defense. I don't have my own power plant. There are lots of things that I depend on the government for. I'd suggest that tracking and intercepting dangerous objects in space is preferable to trying to live underground.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Let's keep things in perspective. There are no verified records of anyone being killed by a falling meteor, ever. There are some sketchy stories that can't be confirmed - but even if we believe all of them, the number is still pretty damn small.
Now consider all the wars, genocides, and random violence that humans have inflicted on each other.
Obviously, such a laser can't be put into orbit around Earth, as the potential for it to be used as a weapon obviously means it won't fly, and having such a weapon on the ground would both be subject to dissipation in the atmosphere, and could also be considered an advancement in the nuclear-weapons arms race (since it could shoot down missiles and satellites too).
So, build this defense on the far side of the moon, which is tidal-locked and can never point directly at Earth; you don't even have to lose much coverage by doing this, because you can put the lasers just beyond the 'horizon' on the moon, where Earth goes beyond visibility (though this 'horizon' varies somewhat, because even though the moon is tidal-locked it still 'wobbles' a bit, causing the placement of the horizon to change over a certain area).
You can even exclude a certain amount of orbital coverage from the lasers too (e.g. exclude vision of most satellite orbits), making this a very adjustable system, which could provide very decent protection against asteroids, and with only a relatively small area lacking coverage at any particular time (and even then, only temporarily lacking coverage).
Great reason to go back to the moon :)
They have a doomsday religion and believe in it fervently.
Only if you consider history, geology, paleontology, and math to be religion. Face it, those who are born always die. We will become extinct some day, probably either by our own hand or by our lack of action.
You, on the other hand, worship at the altar of ignorance. Or maybe under its bridge.
Free Martian Whores!
Wow, such willful ignorance. That's equivalent to reinforcing your roof to withstand a nuclear bomb, moron.
Free Martian Whores!
If we could observe small objects to aim these things, we could also send people to bomb shelters/evacuate them that'd take a lot of the punch out of it and just brace for impact. For the really large objects then firing this laser at a dino-killer won't do anything anyway. From a WP article: "In 1998, NASA formally embraced the goal of finding and cataloging, by 2008, 90% of all near-Earth objects (NEOs) with diameters of 1 km or larger that could represent a collision risk to Earth. The 1 km diameter metric was chosen after considerable study indicated that an impact of an object smaller than 1 km could cause significant local or regional damage but is unlikely to cause a worldwide catastrophe."
So even at 100 times the ISS with a year of advance warning, it can only prevent a smaller regional disaster (1/2 diameter = 1/8th the volume and 1/8th the energy of a 1km asteroid). It is quite probably cheaper, simpler and more guaranteed to work to slowly evacuate that region over that year or to prepare necessary shelters and supplies to just wait it out. This is just stone, not nukes so there's no radiation damage, once the dust clears you're free to exit the shelters again and while crops and animals might be lost there's no long term poisoning of the water and food chain. In short, compared to all the other dangerous places choose to live with earthquakes and volcanos and whatnot with far more immediate danger this seems like a total waste of money and effort. Now dino-killers would be nice to have a defense against, but this is not it.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Why do they wanna attack defenseless innocent asteroids that are just minding their own business?
Friggin' sharks with friggin' lasers attached to their heads...
...IN SPACE!
There is no way this wouldn't be used to take out terrestrial ground targets.
Unfortunetly current solar panels are so low efficiecy that these d-starts will be laughted by asteroids. Considering we cant even see most of them comeing, recently the one that dropped in russia, consider that hitting in middle of large city...
And small asteroids that these d-start woul be efficient against are not dangerous, since to mostly burn up in atmosphere.. Its the big ones that will wipe us out. big ones like size of small mountains. Shoot that with laser and it gigles and keeps on comeing.
There was recently calculations that even few nukes would not do squat about big asteroid comeing. So how wold low efficiency laser array work any better. And before you say becouse we see them comeing, etc... Consider this. We currently shoot moon with laser, very very good optical laser. in this distance the damn beam widens to 1 km wide in moons end, leading to very very low energy density, Theres that little reflective aparatus in moon that reflects this back, and scinetist use this to measure distance between earth and moon.
Knowing this, we have no chance in hell useing lasers against asteroids and evaporate them before they hit.
The real threat is not from the occasional asteroid, but from swarms of small cometary rocks. Such swarms do not provide any single, easy target to spot and attempt to take out in advance.
They have struck before on a larger scale - with regularity - as documented e.g. by Clube and Napier. Much of their research focused on the long-past break-up of a very large comet and the periodic intersection of Earth's orbit with its remains - which has led to cometary showers, with their impact on societies in more ways than one, also leading among other things to religious developments - ideas of gods and their actions and judgments.
Historically, peoples have looked to their leaders to protect them from catastrophe - and when their leaders fail to do so, i.e. something happens that they simply cannot control, such as a rain of fireballs and meteorites exploding in the atmosphere, then a people will blame its leaders and get rid of them - often violently. This seems to be a basic feature of human psychology, one repeatedly seen in action throughout history.
Knowing this, the leaders have the need to reassure their people that they have things under control - historically, there have e.g. been systems of ritual and sacrifice. Nowadays, reassurances come in a different form: That the sky is watched, that major events only happen "once in a lifetime" (or, earlier, that such things simply couldn't happen - which was long the consensus), coupled with simplistic ideas of weapons and other solutions to take out the threat - solutions that will never be adequate if/when the time comes for real. People are only too happy to play along with such reassurances, to develop them and then to take them and run with them, since the alternative is not too pleasant - recognizing that there is no way to avert such disasters when they arrive.
A very recent book by a historian, "Comets and the Horns of Moses", discusses this whole subject, and much more connected to it. It goes into the history of cometary interaction with our planet - which has long seemed to follow cycles - and both how it has affected life on Earth and how humanity has responded to it - the social, cultural, and political dynamics involved, both in-between and during times of cometary disasters. Looking at the history and the present, it further goes into what seems likely to be coming up. I'd recommend it for the interested.
http://www.amazon.com/Comets-Horns-Moses-Laura-Knight-Jadczyk/dp/1897244835/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360956345&sr=8-1&keywords=comets+and+the+horns+of+moses
In the present time, one of several clues is the reported sightings collected by the American Meteor Society, which have increased roughly exponentially since 2005 - with 463 events on record for 2005, the increase accelerating year by year with 1628 for 2011 and then 2219 for 2012. Thus far this year - i.e. in one and a half month - there's been 322.
> California Professors Unveil Proposal To Attack Asteroids With Lasers
Well, best get started now. They're pushing 10 years to get environmental approval to deepen certain shipping ports by 6 feet to accommodate the new supertanker size of the expanding Panama Canal. I can't even begin to imagine the paperwork for a laser 10x the size of the ISS.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Surely we need a panic name for this. How about 'Galactic Bombardment'.
To quote No_one:
no one, no-one or noone, an English indefinite pronoun
A space-based platform with enough power to vaporize asteroids? Is there any chance, whether intentionally or accidentally, that it could be pointed at something less asteroidal, like people?
A more realistic and practical system would be to hit the asteroid head-on with a projectile of extremely high density, like a politician. Can you say Congress cluster-bomblet?
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
It was Ace Combat 04: Shattered Skies. They didn't use lasers (instead opting for giant cannons), but the effect could easily be the same.
All the ideas that are brandied about are interesting, but ultimately a waste of time. The problem is much more fundamental that that. We currently do not have the capability of spotting them reliably and effectively, and no government agency is (in reality) working on fixing this rather fundamental problem - this includes NASA, we can not spot these killers by sitting on earth and looking up, we need to get a telescope up in solar orbit to find them efficiently. This means, as the world currently stands, the first warning we will get when an asteroid is on collision course with the earth, is going to be the massive flash generated when it enters the atmosphere, and shortly after, the monumental shaking of the earths crust as it touches down. Deflecting or destroying it at that point becomes rather moot.
Thankfully a private foundation lead by former astronauts and others
has taken it upon it self to fix the issue, and is working with NASA, Space-X and others to launch a detector by 2018 that will actually find most of these buggers, so we can deflect them (easiest option) in time.
A problem has been detected and windows needs to shutdown to protect your satellite. Error 0x00002.
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
Why not just whack anything really big with the ISS - just ram it. At least that $140 Billion will have been useful. Just have to coordinate with the Russians to get the residents off first...
I wholly support this discussion because it is a logical stepping stone and a small segway from the question, "What happens when the object is too large to protect ourselves". By that time I hope we haven't squandered the resources required to get off this planet and are well on our way to achieving such a feat.
I'll bet anyone $100USD that as soon as a project like this was approved, there'd be outraged protests from anti-U.S. countries around the world claiming that it's actually a space-based weapon that will be turned against them as a means of blackmailing them into giving in to U.S. demands. North Korea would probably have a full-on grand mal seizure over it.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Perfect cover for building a sheild aganst ICBMs
In previous discussions we have seen references to more 'soft-force' solutions, such as spraying paint on the meteorite to have it nudged it off course by sunlight pressure or mounting a small ion-motor on the surface.
The more 'robust' approaches proposed here like blowing it up (opinions are sharply divided as to how much good that would do though) or vaporising it by aiming big lasers at it have a big disadvantage. They're basically big weapon systems in orbit, whose target could very well be meteorites, among other things.
As regards the lasers, what's to stop such a laser from taking aim at a satelite that we don't like and treating it as a meteorite? And if you believe that the BRIC countries will agree to such a setup, just consider what the reception here would be if the entire system would be built and operated by e.g. the Chinese or the Russians. Or by a collaboration of Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Brazil, and Cuba. Or India, Brazil, South Africa, and Pakistan.
The most natural and politically neutral (from a jurisdictional point of view) would be to build the system by a group of nations and allow it to be controlled by e.g. the UN security council. Of course that idea will live only as long as it takes for the first tea-partier to hear about it and start screaming his/her head off.
If we push ahead with a system, who's willing to bet that BRIC countries won't race to have their own version up in the same timeframe?
Building the darn thing might be the least of our worries.
Wow, such willful ignorance. That's equivalent to reinforcing your roof to withstand a nuclear bomb, moron.
Not all meteorites are that powerful. Of course, since those it would help with are so unlikely, why opt for individual protection anyway?
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Good luck getting other countries to sign onto this. There are already UN treaties about space-based weaponry. No one is going to put up with a country having giant orbital lasers which could just as easily vaporize large metropolitan areas as they could space rocks.
How the hell are you going to keep the sharks alive during their ascent into space?
Have you reinforced your home's roof to resist meteorite impacts? No? Then why do you expect the entire human race to?
I have insurance to address the possibility of small impacts.
Using insurance to spread financial risks doesn't work for impacts that take out a significant portion of the human race.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
If the movies have taught us anything, there are only two practical applications of space-based laser weapons: Making enormous Swiss cheese, and burying nerdish boot-licks in housefuls of popcorn. Oh ... and vaporizing human targets from space!
Such a system IF deployed would be used against any human being by any Country Prime Minister or President, any district Magistrate (State of said country) any Mayor of any city of any country.
Events as of yesterday happen perhaps once in 100 years.
The costs of such a system cannot be justified by the facts, of the 'stated' purpose ... that open the doors to re-purpose the system for killing of humans cate blanche ... the scourge of the United States of America according to the President of the United States of America is the Citizens of the United States of America ... and All other countries of Earth and the [snicker snicker] United Nations will jump on the wagon to kill their own scourges willy nilly.
Sequester
Sequester is the only way to end the illegal wars of the USA in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Northeast Africa and southeast Asia.
To kill the Beast, Starve the Beast.
There will be pain .... There will be blood ... The blood of the Washington DC bureaucrats will flow.
Not to mention the capability to fry earthlings, like those at a too-rowdy Afghan wedding party.
> There are lots of things that I depend on the government for.
Considering that this planet uses only about 3-4 million dollars per year to detect neo, we could do a lot better work as individuals if we wanted to. E.g. US has probably hundreds of people who could single handed fund similas system and if we would use crowd sourcing...
California Professors Unveil Proposal To Attack Asteroids With Lasers? Professors, it might be more efficacious to attack asteroids with laser beams instead.
Some geek has been waiting his entire life to work on the DE(ath)STAR.
Brilliant!
laser machine ,laser weapon?i only can do laser marking .www.hanalasertech.com
You do know that the planet we live on is already _in_ space, right?