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Hardware Hacker Proposes Patent and Education Reform To Obama

ptorrone writes "In a welcome turn of events, President Barack Obama spoke directly to the patent troll problem and the need for more comprehensive patent reform yesterday in a 'Fireside Hangout' — a live question and answer session (video) hosted in a Google+ hangout. The President was responding to a question by the prominent electrical engineer and entrepreneur Limor 'Ladyada' Fried of Adafruit Industries, who in 2009 won an EFF Pioneer Award for her work with free software and open-source hardware."

17 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Obama talks a lot but never delivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is exactly the same thing he promised in 2008 .... and NEVER delivered. He didn't even discuss it for 4 years.

    1. Re:Obama talks a lot but never delivers by tqk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      3 AC comments in a row saying basically the same thing.. I suggest /. to display the (large) area from where come the AC comments based on IP ...

      I'm in Canuckistan (the Western part, but not too West). I saw nothing wrong with what they wrote. Obama's always talked a great game, but they're always platitudes. He's never shown the least lick of intention of actually carrying through on stuff that he says.

      I'm sure he does have a personal agenda, but you'll never learn what it is just by listening to him.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    2. Re:Obama talks a lot but never delivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      oh you naive child. Nothing has been reformed in healthcare. NOTHING has been reformed in healthcare. what has changed is that now people with children still can't afford healthcare, but the insurance companies are going to go from filthy rich to filthy richer with their state enforced kleptocracy.

  2. Re:and he proposed what... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, he's basically just Bush plus gay rights minus gun rights. Same economic and military policies, just a few changes in "culture war wedge issues" to give the illusion of choice in the elections.

  3. Re:Blablabla by game+kid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That, to be clear, is because (like the last Obama-Google+ copout that I remember hearing of (and seeing, in that case)) this is a mutual promotional vehicle for the President and Google's social network.

    If it were an actual exercise in journalism or even executive-branch outreach, there'd be more tough questions from the people, more focused answers from POTUS, and less "Look at us, we're YouTube and this is a Google+ hangout! GOOGLE PLUS!!!"-ness. It's grand puffery all around, even by propaganda standards.

    Perhaps that was the only way Obama and Larry Page would let YouTube get the former to say anything, but I suspect that I didn't miss much when I missed this.

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  4. I don't see patent trolls as the real issue by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Patent trolls are just a particularly visible example of exploiting low-quality patents. The main difference between patent trolls as "non-practicing entities" and practicing entities is that the mutually-assured destruction pacts don't apply to them, because they don't themselves build things which they could be counter-sued over in a retaliatory patent suit. But MAD hardly fixes the problem in the rest of the sector: all it does is turn it into a cartel-like system, where IBM and Intel don't sue each other because of MAD, but Intel is perfectly happy to sue startups that try to enter their sector and compete with them. That kind of anti-competitive, turf-defending patent usage is actually considerably worse than patent trolls imo.

    If the patents are high-quality, on the other hand, representing actual non-trivial inventions, then I don't see much of a difference between practicing and non-practicing entities. For example, university research labs sometimes invent some significant things which they then license to a third party to commercialize, which is perfectly fine (and an intended use of the patent system).

    1. Re:I don't see patent trolls as the real issue by Dachannien · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, patent trolls are fundamentally an artifact of flaws in the law.

      Take, for example, another (short-lived) attempt to exploit the law for unjustified gain: the (now amended) statute on false marking of patents.

      The old law allowed anyone to file suit on behalf of the federal government when a product was falsely marked as being patented, and then the plaintiff would pocket half of the damages awarded. Numerous lawsuits were filed in cases such as products being sold that had been marked with a patent number during manufacture but where the patent had since expired. It was also unclear whether the damages to be awarded were per each falsely marked item or not, which led some defendants to settle rather than pay large attorneys' fees and risk an unknown judgment in court.

      The flaw was that the law allowed a virtually risk-free suit to be filed with a potential for a huge payout. That's the same problem that leads to patent trolls and copyright trolls*, and it's one that is greatly mitigated by implementing a "loser pays" system.

      (* Copyright trolling is further exacerbated by the statutory damages provision that allows for recovery of damages far out of proportion to the actual damages suffered. There is a "loser pays" provision in copyright law, but it is at the discretion of the court and is usually only applied in extraordinary circumstances.)

      Low patent quality does play a role in patent trolling, but primarily by providing more ammunition for patent trolls to troll with. Speaking from experience, the USPTO examiners' hands are tied when it comes to patent quality (sideways swings and cat laser pointers aside), because case law and office policy don't give us the tools we need to say that a set of claims are so far removed from the disclosed invention as to be ridiculous; and in many cases, the relevant prior art is "in use" but the details are not published, which prevents us from making a prima facie case to sustain a prior art rejection.

  5. "Trolls" Are Misdirection by Bob9113 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    [Obama] describes patent trolls as "a classic example," of the problem, and that "they don't actually produce anything themselves."

    Whether a bad patent is wielded by a producer or a holding company does not change the fact that it should never have been granted. If we kill the trolls, we will still be left with the runaway, wasteful patent litigation over bad patents by companies that do produce things.

    The problem is not production. The "patent troll" hobgoblin is misdirecting the patent backlash that should be directed at a patent system that is too powerful. We are getting bad patents because we grant them too easily and give too much enforcement power to those who hold them. That is every bit as true of the mobile patent wars between producers as with the network service patent wars of the trolls.

    The "patent troll" misdirection is harming our ability to fix the actual problem.

    1. Re:"Trolls" Are Misdirection by tqk · · Score: 4, Informative

      The "patent troll" misdirection is harming our ability to fix the actual problem.

      Yet once you fix that problem, the fuckers sue you in order to break it again. We don't have enough lawyers (preferably politicos) on the ocean floor.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Dumb patents by flyingfsck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem is dumb patents that do not advance the state of the art and provide no solution to anything. Most software patents are only problem statements and provide no solution to the problem at all, so they are totally worthless except to harass other people who actually invested the time and energy to solve the problem. If a patent describes something useful in a way that furthers the art, then no-one will have an issue with it. Every patent application should be accompanied by a working machine. Whether it costs 10 pence, 10 dollars, or 10 billion dollars to make that working machine - that will prove the value of the patent.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Dumb patents by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is dumb patents that do not advance the state of the art and provide no solution to anything. Most software patents are only problem statements and provide no solution to the problem at all, so they are totally worthless except to harass other people who actually invested the time and energy to solve the problem. If a patent describes something useful in a way that furthers the art, then no-one will have an issue with it. Every patent application should be accompanied by a working machine. Whether it costs 10 pence, 10 dollars, or 10 billion dollars to make that working machine - that will prove the value of the patent.

      That would destroy drug patents as well as software patents.

      It should require a demonstration to show practicality. In the case of a drug patent, that would mean a successful clinical trial

      In the case of sotware (and yes, I think there should be software patents but not for obvious, workmanlike programs) it would be a working program that implements all the claims of the invention.) and a demonstration that it does what is claimed.

      In the case of hardware, it would require a physical implementation of the invention and demonstration that it does what is claimed.

      In the case of a gene patent, no such fucking thing unless you built that gene yourself and it isn't known to exist in a living organism in the wild. For example, if you invent a new DNA sequence that will cause bacteria to break down cellulose quickly and convert it into ethanol or methane, that would be an invention. And the modified bacteria could then be an invention, though I have qualms about letting any living thing be patented because if it escapes into the biosphere it becomes impossible to commercially control.

  8. Re:So much for the guns by holophrastic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hey look, you live in the right country for you, have the right president for you, and you have the right issues for you. Oh wait, I mean problems. You have the right problems for you. Glad you're happy with your problems.

    However, as an outsider, I'll let you in on a little secret. With all of the wars, and all of the droughts, and all of the torture, December's shootings remain the most embarassing thing on the planet at this time.

    You're losing what little respect the rest of the world has for you. And this after mortgage problems how long ago?

    I'm looking at your last 13 years. I see terrorism, huge financial issues, loss of privacy, loss of civil rights, enormous expenses, loss of jobs, budget cuts to major exploration, mass shootings, recessions, pollution, miscounts, immigration issues, and mass corporate fraud. Oh yeah, and low-quality education. And also a lousy patent system.

    I don't know what to tell you. I put the patent system at the end.

  9. Re:and he proposed what... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, he's basically just Bush plus gay rights minus gun rights. Same economic and military policies, just a few changes in "culture war wedge issues" to give the illusion of choice in the elections.

    Minus gun rights - Hell, Obama is the best guns salesman, ever.

    Try to find a new gun, anything. They're back ordered. Everywhere. I was trying to find a replacement for a 1960 era 12 gauge shotgun which has a cracked stock and a wonky barrel (too many dings on the rocks). Ended up buying a replacement 'military' stock and a new barrel. Fortunately the receiver looks OK. Even the .22 caliber AR 15 clones in pink and black pattern camo sold after a couple of weeks at the local gun store. Bizarre.

    And good thing I'm not trying to buy any ammo for it.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  10. Re:So much for the guns by holophrastic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Oh, I agree with you entirely. I'm upset that it's been 40 years of the same problems, and that you guys don't seem to be any closer.

    Actually, my country doesn't have any problems that I feel need to be addressed within my life-time at the moment. The trouble is that we've got neighbours. And while I've recently decided to stop visiting, and stop contributing my tourism dollars, and I'm even working on cancelling my business dollars to find suppliers elsewhere, still many of your laws seem to be crossing our borders.

    That's the problem. That's why I'm worried about your problems. Your "solutions" cross the border, often intentionally.

  11. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  12. Re:So much for the guns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    More children choke to death each day than have ever died in all school shootings, combined.

    Seriously.

    And better, there is NOTHING to you could do to stop an activity like a school shooter. NOTHING. No law, no amount of money, no defense you can erect around the school. If a guy is determined, he will succeed.

    Meanwhile, you'll drop $40000000000 per school and still fail. You'd save more kids by banning hotdogs.