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New GPU Testing Methodology Puts Multi-GPU Solutions In Question

Vigile writes "A big shift in the way graphics cards and gaming performance are tested has been occurring over the last few months, with many review sites now using frame times rather than just average frame rates to compare products. Another unique testing methodology called Frame Rating has been started by PC Perspective that uses video capture equipment capable of recording uncompressed high resolution output direct from the graphics card, a colored bar overlay system and post-processing on that recorded video to evaluate performance as it is seen by the end user. The benefit is that there is literally no software interference between the data points and what the user sees, making it is as close to an 'experience metric' as any developed. Interestingly, multi-GPU solutions like SLI and CrossFire have very different results when viewed in this light, with AMD's offering clearly presenting a poorer, and more stuttery, animation."

17 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. You use GPUs for video games? by amanicdroid · · Score: 5, Funny

    My AMD is cranking out Bitcoin hashes 15 times faster than an equivalently priced Nvidia so I'm okay with the results of this article.

    1. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My AMD is cranking out Bitcoin hashes 15 times faster than an equivalently priced Nvidia so I'm okay with the results of this article.

      Out of curiosity, what's your break even point?

      If you went out now, and bought one of these video cards solely for this ... how long would it take to recoup the cost of the card? Or is this something you'd run for a long time, and get two bucks out of, but still have had to pay for your electricity?

      I hear people talking about this, but since I don't follow BitCoin closely enough, I have no idea if it's lucrative, or just geeky.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      People that "mine" bitcoins don't pay for their own electricity. Most people don't have the basement circuits metered separately from the rest of the house.

    3. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by lordofthechia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't forget electrical costs. At $0.10 a kWh you are paying $0.24 a day (24 hours) per 100 watts of continuous average power consumption. This is $7.20 per month per 100W @ $0.10 /kWh or $87.60 a year. Adjust up/down for your cost of electricity and power usage (120W and $0.12/kWh = 1.2 * 1.2 = 1.44x adjustment)

      Now add to this the waste heat vented into your house on the months you cool your house + the depreciated costs (and wear and tear) of the computer assets you tied up processing Bitcoins, then you'll have your true cost and you can calculate your break even point based on initial investment + ongoing costs - product (bitcoins) produced.

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
    4. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by amanicdroid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Haha, I'm at less than 1:1 electricity to bitcoin ratio after ~5 months.
      Kill-A-Watt says I've used approx $68.23 of electricity at 11.5 cents per kWh. Bitcoins currently trade at 1 to $30 and I've got 2.2 bitcoins. The Radeon 6770 was (and still is) ~$110.

      Additional factors to consider:
      -The bitcoin machine is also my daily workstation so if it were running headless and otherwise unused it would have probably done better in the electricity used category.
      -It makes a damn fine space heater and I've enjoyed it immensely this winter.
      -My focus in this project was to learn hands-on about scientific computing applications and it's been great for that.

      In conclusion: as a business it would have been a flop, partially because I haven't optimized the setup for that application. As a learning opportunity and 200 watt heater it's been phenomenal.

    5. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by amanicdroid · · Score: 5, Informative
      This is the explanation I've been given for the disparity between Nvidia and AMD:
      https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU#Why_are_AMD_GPUs_faster_than_Nvidia_GPUs.3F

      Specifically:

      Secondly, another difference favoring Bitcoin mining on AMD GPUs instead of Nvidia's is that the mining algorithm is based on SHA-256, which makes heavy use of the 32-bit integer right rotate operation. This operation can be implemented as a single hardware instruction on AMD GPUs (BIT_ALIGN_INT), but requires three separate hardware instructions to be emulated on Nvidia GPUs (2 shifts + 1 add). This alone gives AMD another 1.7x performance advantage (~1900 instructions instead of ~3250 to execute the SHA-256 compression function).

      For GPU programming I've enjoyed Nvidia's CUDA package greatly over wrangling OpenCL that Radeon relies on.

    6. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by amanicdroid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bitcoins stayed around $13 to 1 for months and you're correct, there wasn't a breakeven point for GPU mining. With Bitcoins trading at $30 the breakeven point is available again. For how long, I don't know, and I wouldn't bet a business on it.

    7. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by megamerican · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't forget electrical costs. At $0.10 a kWh you are paying $0.24 a day (24 hours) per 100 watts of continuous average power consumption. This is $7.20 per month per 100W @ $0.10 /kWh or $87.60 a year. Adjust up/down for your cost of electricity and power usage (120W and $0.12/kWh = 1.2 * 1.2 = 1.44x adjustment)

      Believe me, I do not. With electricity costs taken into account I make around $4 per day (from 4 video cards) from Bitcoin or Litecoin on 2 gaming systems I rarely use. When I use my main gaming system it is slightly less.

      Now add to this the waste heat vented into your house on the months you cool your house

      Living in a colder climate these costs offset, however I have no hard numbers. The slightly higher electricity cost in the summer months are offset from a savings in natural gas cost in the winter months.

      + the depreciated costs (and wear and tear) of the computer assets you tied up processing Bitcoins

      The goal is to maximize profits and not necessarily maximize the amount of bitcoins/litecoins I mine, so thanks to the power curve of most cards, it is more profitable to slightly underclock the core and/or memory clock which helps minimize wear and tear on the cards. The cards I've had since 2009 are still running and producing the same MH/s as they always have.

      Many people who still mine bitcoins with GPU's are people who don't pay for electricity costs thanks to the difficulty rise from FPGA's and ASIC's. This pushed out any profitability for me, but I still have profitability from Litecoin, which is a similar cryptocurrency.

      Even if there were no profits and I was just breaking even I would still do it because I would like a use for my gaming machines since I rarely game anymore but still want to sit down and play every couple of weeks.

      --
      If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
    8. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by pclminion · · Score: 4, Informative

      Out of curiosity, what's your break even point?

      I don't know where the break even point is, but once you pass it, you can be very profitable. One of my friends built a custom "supercomputer" out of cheap motherboards and graphics cards for about $80k -- along with completely custom software to automatically tune clock speeds and fan rates in real time (all of which was written in bash script). At peak performance, his machine generated about $20k worth of bitcoin every month, which easily paid for the $12k monthly electric bill.

      After a couple of difficulty-doublings, and the imminent arrival of the ASIC miners, this lost its profitability, and he went back to being a DBA... The machine is still out at the farm, cranking away. I think he'll disassemble it and part it out for cash in a month or two.

    9. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by pclminion · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dude, it's a farm. A fucking farm. 40 acres of red wheat.

      He designed the rack system himself, along with custom power supply headers that he had fabbed at a nearby plant. He even tried to reduce equipment costs by hiring a Taiwanese company to produce custom GPU cards for him for $70 a piece (they didn't work very well).

      Nobody does that shit anymore. It was like watching Steve Wozniak.

    10. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by pclminion · · Score: 3, Informative

      It makes me sad that someone could run up a $12K monthly electric bill without assigning an environmental cost to where that power was coming from.

      Making assumptions is bad.

      Before the Bitcoin operation got started, my friend's business was making biodiesel out of local rendered chicken fat and other things. He single-handedly supplied most of the farmers in a 5 mile radius with fuel for their farm operations. Prior to the biodiesel years, he ran the largest privately owned solar grid in the county, providing something like 25 kilowatts back to the grid, for a couple of years solid. He is the most environmentally obsessed person I know, and has certainly contributed far more to the local green economy than he has taken out of it.

      The ultimate plan, which did not come to fruition (because of the rising difficulty of mining bitcoin, as I stated earlier), was to completely cover the 40 acre property with an array of solar panels, each panel having a custom GPU mining module installed on the underside -- open air cooling of the machines, solar power for the bitcoins, and it would have qualified as the largest solar array in the United States.

      To think that he's some kind of forest-destroying air-blackening capitalist is about the furthest from the truth as you can get. Check your assumptions.

    11. Re:You use GPUs for video games? by tyrione · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is the explanation I've been given for the disparity between Nvidia and AMD: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU#Why_are_AMD_GPUs_faster_than_Nvidia_GPUs.3F Specifically:

      Secondly, another difference favoring Bitcoin mining on AMD GPUs instead of Nvidia's is that the mining algorithm is based on SHA-256, which makes heavy use of the 32-bit integer right rotate operation. This operation can be implemented as a single hardware instruction on AMD GPUs (BIT_ALIGN_INT), but requires three separate hardware instructions to be emulated on Nvidia GPUs (2 shifts + 1 add). This alone gives AMD another 1.7x performance advantage (~1900 instructions instead of ~3250 to execute the SHA-256 compression function).

      For GPU programming I've enjoyed Nvidia's CUDA package greatly over wrangling OpenCL that Radeon relies on.

      You're living on borrowed time with CUDA. The entire industry has already moved to OpenCL and it will only expand when all the heavy Engineering and Science vendors are fully on-board. When Ansys 14.5 already moved to OpenCL for its latest release you know such a conservative corporation is one of the last to make the transition.

  2. Regardless... by Cinder6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As an owner of a Crossfire setup, it's obviously not a 2x improvement over a single card; however, it's also a marked improvement over a single card. When I first set up this rig (August), I had problems with micro-stutter.* Now, though, after AMD's newer drivers and manually limiting games to 59 FPS, I don't see it anymore; games appear smooth as silk.

    At a mathematical level, it may not be a perfect solution, but at a perceptual level, I am perfectly satisfied with my purchase. With that said, buying two mid-line cards instead of one high-end card isn't a good choice. Only buy two (or more) cards if you're going high-end.

    *I was initially very disappointed with the Radeons. That's no longer the case, but I will probably still go nVidia the next time I upgrade, which hopefully won't be for years.

    --
    If you can't convince them, convict them.
  3. This trend has been going on a little longer by WilliamGeorge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It started when people began to look not only at average frame rate, but at *minimum* frame rate during a benchmark run. That shows how low the FPS can dip, which was the beginning of acknowledging that something in the user-experience mattered beyond average frame rate. It has gotten a lot more advanced, as pointed out in the article here, and this sort of information is very helpful for people building or buying gaming computers. I use info like this on an almost daily basis to help my customers get the best system for their needs, and I greatly appreciate the enthusiasts and websites which continue to push the ways we do testing!

    --
    William George
  4. Another test I'm seeing more of by gman003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    99th percentile frame times. That gives you a realistic minimum framerate, discarding most outliers (many games, particularly those using UE3, tend to have a few very choppy frames right on level load, that don't really affect performance).

  5. Developers by LBt1st · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is interesting from a developer standpoint as well. This means we are wasting processing time rendering frames and are only displayed for a handful of milliseconds. These frames could be dropped entirely and that processing time could go to use elsewhere.

    1. Re:Developers by mikael · · Score: 3, Informative

      Developers still like to have everything on a "main loop" - render static scenery, get user move, render player, get network player moves, render network players, render auxiliary data). Other stuff will be spinning and bobbing up and down on its own based on timers. Some frames might never be rendered, but they help keep the "tempo" or the smoothness of the animation. As each PC screen can have a different screen resolution, it will have a different refresh rate, anything from 50Hz to 120/240Hz. Every rendered frame is only going to be visibile for several milliseconds (50Hz = 20 milliseconds, 100Hz = 10 milliseconds). If a frame is rendered, it will be perceived even if not consciously.

      Early home computers allowed the program to synchronize animation updates to the VBI (Vertical Blank Interrupt) and HBI (Horizontal Blank Interrupt). That way, you could do smooth jitter-free physics synchronised to the frame flipping.

      16-bit console system programmers would render out lines across the current scan-line to see how much processing they could do in each frame. While the tiles were updated during the VBI, the physics could be updated during the CRT scanning.

      These days, I would guess you would need either a vertical blank callback for the CPU or shader for the GPU.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads