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New Bill Would Require Patent Trolls To Pay Defendants' Attorneys

Zordak writes "According to Law 360, H.R. 845, the 'Saving High-Tech Innovators from Egregious Legal Disputes' (SHIELD) Act of 2013 would require non-practicing entities that lose in patent litigation to pay the full legal costs of accused infringers. The new bill (PDF) would define a 'non-practicing entity' as a plaintiff that is neither the original inventor or assignee of a patent, and that has not made its own 'substantial investment in exploiting the patent.' The bill is designed to particularly have a chilling effect on 'shotgun' litigation tactics by NPEs, in which they sue numerous defendants on a patent with only a vague case for infringement. Notably, once a party is deemed to be an NPE early in the litigation, they will be required to post a bond to cover the defendants' litigation costs before going forward."

45 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sudden outbreak of common sense?

    1. Re:Hmm by butalearner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Almost. Of course, this bill is full of weasel words so it'll never pass, and we're still dancing around the two things we need:

      1) Software patent reform.
      2) Loser pays for every kind of lawsuit, not just patent troll suits. You know, like every other sane country on the planet.

    2. Re:Hmm by dc29A · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if this law passes, it won't work because the patent office keeps granting vague patent after vague patent.

    3. Re:Hmm by subanark · · Score: 2

      It is a big deal to those corporations. Although settling isn't that big of a deal, the money they pay the patent trolls only empower them to buy more patents and sue more companies. Also, there are some really gutsy patent trolls that don't settle and instead try to get the jury to pay the off big. "Members of the jury, the sale of the companies product is in use by their product. For this reason we want a mere 5% of the total sales of their devices" (They say this in an industry where the profit margin is 5%). And this is assuming that the patent trolls don't prove willful infringement.

      These corporations have the big bucks, they have the lobying power to push this law though, and those patent trolls have finally become annoying enough to hurt them. What I fear is that the patent trolls will find the inventors and offer to back license the patent and represent them in court for a mere 90% of the payoff.

    4. Re:Hmm by Stiletto · · Score: 2

      Loser pays is a terrible idea, unless you can guarantee that the legal system 100% of the time accurately determines who is wrong (as opposed to who has the best/most lawyers). As a person with limited resources, I would never be able to risk suing a corporation over something, because, even if I had a 1% chance of losing, that chance would mean instant bankruptcy for me. Similarly, corporations would have even more incentive to use bogus lawsuits to extract settlement money from individuals who would never be able to afford to pay both sides' lawyers.

    5. Re:Hmm by tnk1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, he means a legitimate small player *making use of the system as it was intended under the concept of equal protection under the law*. Having money is not supposed to be a prerequisite for obtaining justice in the US, at least in theory, of course.

      I should be able to sue Apple or Samsung or some other multinational and if my case is correct and proven under the law, I not only deserve to win, I am supposed to win.

      The fact that patent trolls can weasel into the space left for the small guy to have his voice heard doesn't mean that that method becomes expendable. It means we need a solution that filters patent trolls out better.

      I agree that trolls need to be stopped. My own organization have been extorted by them. They're a parasitic entity made possible by government rules that would not exist without a broken patent system. However, fix the patent system, don't simply carpet bomb any requests from people who don't have money.

    6. Re:Hmm by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      NPEs didn't pay enough bribes last election cycle.

    7. Re:Hmm by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Loser pays is a terrible idea, unless you can guarantee that the legal system 100% of the time accurately determines who is wrong (as opposed to who has the best/most lawyers).

      Without loser pays, anyone who gets sued already lost. You get to pay millions to prove your innocence. So there's a loss for being innocent. Loser pays fixes that. What would you propose to protect the innocent from frivolous lawsuits?

    8. Re:Hmm by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Loser Pays applies to virtually the entire rest of the galaxy, and, while not perfect, it is way better than the Loonie Tunes US approach. Here in the UK, it applies to both criminal and civil law in 100% of cases, unless the judge decides the loser was partly to blame - eg deliberately made himself look guilty to attract a law suit.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    9. Re:Hmm by Maow · · Score: 2

      Loser Pays applies to virtually the entire rest of the galaxy, and, while not perfect, it is way better than the Loonie Tunes US approach. Here in the UK, it applies to both criminal and civil law in 100% of cases, unless the judge decides the loser was partly to blame - eg deliberately made himself look guilty to attract a law suit.

      Wait, if I'm charged with a criminal offence in the UK, and found not guilty, I get my lawyers fees reimbursed by Her Majesty?

      I don't think it works that way in Canada; I'd be quite interested if you could clarify that.

      We do of course have loser pays in civil proceedings, unless judge decides otherwise, and on a fee schedule applied by the judge.

  2. Worse for small folks? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2

    Seems to me that this will just encourage greater extortion of small shops - those that can't afford to even consider taking a case to court.

    1. Re:Worse for small folks? by Chemisor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A small shop can not afford to take a case to court even without paying the defendant's lawyers. An IP lawsuit costs millions of dollars to pursue; more money than any normal person will make in his entire working lifetime. The courts are for the big fish. For the rest of us, any involvement with them leads to bankrupcy.

    2. Re:Worse for small folks? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2

      Correct. But this makes it worse for them inthat they will be increasingly targeted by NPEs who don't want to take the risk of going to court with one of the big players.

    3. Re:Worse for small folks? by Psyborgue · · Score: 5, Informative

      That depends. Some lawyers are willing to take defense cases on a contingent fee basis. I was sued once for defamation. Because the case was filed in a state where there were strong anti-SLAPP laws, my, normally 500/hr lawyers took the case for (mostly) free with a relatively small retainer. They were so confident the case was bs, had no chance of winning, and that they could get paid through the anti-SLAPP statute, they were willing to take the small risk of losing. The case ended up costing the plaintiff probably close to half a million by the time the dust settled (the judge even granted them a 1.5x multiplier for their risk). The point is there are lawyers out there who are willing to take these sorts of cases if there are statutes out there that will allow them to get paid. I think this sounds like a good law, even for the small guys.

    4. Re:Worse for small folks? by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2

      And there you have the REAL reason why this law is being proposed and why it will pass. It's for the benefit of lawyers. This law ensures that more lawyers will get paid, essentially extending the anti-SLAPP environment to patents, and for the same reasons. If there are any benefits to inventors or the real economy, it's purely coincidental.

  3. Congress is better than Marvel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    S.H.I.E.L.D.
    "Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage Logistics Directorate"
    "Saving High-Tech Innovators from Egregious Legal Disputes"

    I think congress pulled a fast one on Marvel and beat them hands down!

    AC experimenter and I give a rats ass to anyone who cares!

  4. Weird sensation... by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why am I having a hard time believing this is real and has a hope of being passed into law?

    Am I really so cynical/jaded that a good-sounding idea from government and/or lawmakers just feels like some sort of a trap? It say something about how the world's been run lately.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Weird sensation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      If this law is tailored to the job, not only will you have to be able to afford to go round after round of appeal, but if you lose on any of them, you face instant financial ruin.

      If it's actually *your* patent, or if you're actively using the patent to do something other than suing people, then the requirements to post bond and pay the defense costs don't apply.

    2. Re:Weird sensation... by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 2

      Really, all that's needed for this to pass is that the patent trolls decide it would be cheaper to pay the defendants' legal fees than to buy a few senators to oppose the bill...

    3. Re:Weird sensation... by Antipater · · Score: 3, Informative

      In that case Joe is the original inventor/assignee and thus exempt from the law.

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    4. Re:Weird sensation... by interval1066 · · Score: 2

      Remember the thing about "unintended consequences".

      I absolutely agree, few laws get passed that don't screw some one else somewhere. But this is at least a step in the right direction. This action has been a long time coming and hopefully won't have many bad side effects.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    5. Re:Weird sensation... by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, I don't know where they got the HR 845 from. The bill is real, though:

      http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:hr6245:

    6. Re:Weird sensation... by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Company Y doesn't have the money to post bond, so can't continue.

    7. Re:Weird sensation... by InfiniteWisdom · · Score: 2

      If you are the inventor you are not a "non-practicing entity" and the law doesn't apply to you.

    8. Re:Weird sensation... by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      My question is what prevents this:

      Company X is our patent troll, decides to sue someone.
      Company X's owners establish Company Y with just enough money to litigate their side of the case
      Company X sells the rights to a patent to Company Y for a pittance
      Company Y Sues and

      wins... Company Z, the infringer, points to the pittance as being Company Y's valuation of the patent, and offers to pay a reasonable royalty of 5% of said pittance. The judge, finding this unbelievably clever, agrees. Company X's owners sob in the corner. :)

  5. "substantial investment" by arcctgx · · Score: 2

    Does filing a lawsuit count as a "substantial investment in exploiting the patent"?

  6. Regulate Bad Patents, Not Independents by Bob9113 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The bill is designed to particularly have a chilling effect on 'shotgun' litigation tactics by NPEs, in which they sue numerous defendants on a patent with only a vague case for infringement.

    So to achieve that, instead of addressing shotgun litigation by any litigant, they create an inhibition to all NPEs. That would include things like the The Open Invention Network, and would exempt practicing entities like SCO. Does that sound right?

    This legislation would create unequal patent protection for big corps versus independent inventors. Once a patent is sold by its original inventor, it can only subsequently be sold to big corps or it loses some of its power. This means big corps will have an advantage compared to independent inventors, who will have less ability to market their inventions.

    If the problem is shotgun patent enforcement, regulate shotgun patent enforcement. If the problem is overbroad patents, narrow the allowed scope of patents. Address the real problem with equal treatment for all litigants under the law. Don't create a preferred class for big incumbent corps and inhibit independent competition.

    This is nothing more than another land grab by big incumbents who use our government to inhibit free market competition.

    1. Re:Regulate Bad Patents, Not Independents by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes. The Open Invention Network shouldn't be suing people on flimsy grounds either.

      Not to mention that the OIN has members like Google. If one of their members is a practicing entity, the OIN can likely make a good argument that they are as well.

    2. Re:Regulate Bad Patents, Not Independents by IP_Troll · · Score: 5, Informative

      No that sounds completely wrong.

      1. The Open Invention Network actively licenses the patents it holds, so it would not be considered an NPE.
      2. The SCO litigation was about copyright, not patent.
      3. Your statement about unequal protection is false, a non sequitur, and illogical. Big corporations do not "own" the patents it. A shell company in a tax haven like Ireland owns the patents and license them back to the parent, and other licensees. If the Open Invention Network is considered an NPE then so are these shell companies.
      4. Attorneys fees to a defendant are already allowed in many types of cases when it is determined that the plaintiff had no business filing suit, including patent litigation. Revising the patent law so that a bond has to be placed before the suit can go forward ensures the wrongfully accused defendant will actually get paid and the plaintiff can't just vanish after they lose, thus leaving the defendant with the attorneys fees.

      Your visceral knee jerk reaction to a concept that you do not understand is absurd.

    3. Re:Regulate Bad Patents, Not Independents by Java+Pimp · · Score: 2

      But then a NPE could enlist a more shady company as a "member" (think SCO) and make the same argument.

      --
      Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
      Kull: She told me she was 19!
  7. It's a good start... by alittle158 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How about just barring the eastern district of Texas from hearing any cases on patents?...

    --
    If it's not on fire, it's a software problem
  8. Small is an advantage by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Correct. But this makes it worse for them inthat they will be increasingly targeted by NPEs who don't want to take the risk of going to court with one of the big players.

    Unlikely. The reason they don't usually go after the small companies is because they are small, i.e. they have no money. There is little point in spending much money trying to extort a tiny settlement out of a company that the NPE may very well bankrupt in the process. If I'm a small company I would basically say "bring it on". They'll spend more money on lawyers than they would win in a settlement and even if they did win they probably would get nothing because the company would declare bankruptcy.

  9. Re:A better bill by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I like this bill but I would take it a step farther. If the patent troll loses, not only do they have to pay the defense, they need to compensate the poor SOB they sued, AND they need to lose access to the original patent they where suing over.

    --

    Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

  10. Re:While you are at it... by stevejf · · Score: 2

    Oh you mean like the Federal Circuit?

  11. Loser Pays... by tmshort · · Score: 2

    So, why doesn't this apply to all civil lawsuits? This is how it works in many countries thus their courts aren't tied up as bad as ours (i.e. American).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loser_pays

  12. Re:It's all in the wording... by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The preamble to the bill isn't the bill itself. My guess is that there is or will be wording within the fine print that will spell out exactly what that is.

    --
    Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
  13. Re:only half the surface area by Splab · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Geesus christ, whats with the negative vibes coming from the Slashdot crowd???

    No, they do not fix everything at once, so fucking what? They are at least trying to fix part of the problem.

    Yeah would be nice to have all the worlds problems solved in one go, but you know what, it's much easier to fix it if we solve it one step at a time.

  14. Your logic is faulty by s.petry · · Score: 2

    Small shops are not out there filing lawsuits against numerous alleged patent infringing companies. Generally they are the targets of that approach. The bill would allow the targets of patent trolls the ability to recoup losses that they currently have no ability to recoup. Currently the defendants either pay the troll, or pay for lawyers to fight. There is no recovery currently for any part of the trial. The current methods of patent trolls are extortionist.

    You phrase the problem like the patent trolls are the victims. That is absolutely not the case.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  15. Little guy by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 2

    I love that they have singled out patent trolls as opposed to making it hard for some basement inventor to defend himself. Bravo!

  16. WTF? by s.petry · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wow, did you read anything at all or did you see "patent" and just start posting? If you read anything and are posting, you must be a shill. If you didn't read, shame on you. "loser" in this case is limited to a defendant where it's deemed that the company initiating the suit is a troll. The wording in the article states very clearly that if you are deemed a NPE (more on that in a moment) then you must pay a bond to cover the defendant's cost in order to pursue the case.

    NPE: You are a widget maker, and competing with 10 other widget makers in the market place. Trollguy buys a patent for a screw that you use in your widget and he sues every one of you dirty widget makers for infringing on his patent for a widget-screw. He does not make widgets, did not invent a widget, and in fact his current business is buying patents and suing people. He would be by definition a NPE. As a NPE, he needs to bond the defendant's legal fees, for every one of those cases of alleged infringement, in order to pursue the cases.

    That is a good thing!

    In addition: If the infringement claim is dies in court you, Mister Widget, immediately recoup your legal fees by cashing in the bond.

    Now if Joe's Widgets sues you for stealing their rounded corner widget design, they are not a NPE. They do not have to bond your legal fees. So the law does not harm normal competition and does not punish inventors. It's at least "some" protection from the current joke that has become patent trolling.

    Since I have not fully read the Bill I can not claim that the wording is secure and clear enough to really do anything. Politicians are generally shitheads, and even the best written and intended Bills can get screwed up by their idiocy. That fact is rarely the Bill's fault, but rather the people's fault for voting in shitheads over and over and over again.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  17. Re:just another club to protect large corporations by Stiletto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The "lone inventor around the corner" using his patent to fight the big corporations is kind of a myth nowadays. Patents are used to stifle innovation and protect entrenched businesses, not to prevent corporations from stealing the little guy's ideas. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of patent-holders are corporations.

  18. Re:just another club to protect large corporations by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unless the non-corporation inventor has their name as the inventor of the patent, then this bill doesn't apply.

    Its to protect large companies from patent trolls.
    Requiring the bond to be posted first stops shell companies just going bankrupt to avoid payment if they fail.

  19. Re:just another club to protect large corporations by MojoRilla · · Score: 2

    Here is a counter example:

    A friend of mine invented Buzzy to take the pain out of shots. If she didn't have patents, the idea would have been stolen long before now.

  20. Re:only half the surface area by s.petry · · Score: 2

    It requires a special kind of idiocy to claim that because you can't get a stitch now, you won't apply a band aid to slow down the bleeding.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  21. Re:US tramples property rights again by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2

    Naming it "intellectual property" doesn't make it real property. Patents are not property. Patents are purely a legal fiction to grant a monopoly to some entity. Patents expire, vanishing into thin air. Property does not expire. And no, that doesn't mean patents should last infinitely long, either. They're a fiction. A badly constructed legally exploitable fiction. This law is trying to fix some of the fuckups in the current construction. There is no property involved.