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UC Davis Study Concludes H-1B Workers Neither Best Nor Brightest

CowboyRobot writes "American companies are demanding more H-1B visas to ensure access to the best and brightest workforce, and outside the U.S. are similar claims of an IT worker shortage. Last month, European Commission VP Neelie Kroes bemoaned the growing digital skills gap that threatens European competitiveness. But a new study finds that imported IT talent is often less talented than U.S. workers. Critics of the H-1B program see it as a way for companies to keep IT wages low, to discriminate against experienced U.S. workers, and to avoid labor law obligations. In his examination of the presumed correlation between talent and salary, researcher Norman Matloff observes that Microsoft has been exaggerating how much it pays foreign workers. Citing past claims by the company that it pays foreign workers '$100,000 a year to start,' Matloff says the data shows that only 18% of workers with software engineering titles sponsored for green cards by Microsoft between 2006 and 2011 had salaries at or above $100,000."

11 of 353 comments (clear)

  1. schadenfreude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So when nerd inventions blast away other people's jobs, most of the people around here start screaming about buggy whip manufacturers and the need for a rapidly adjusting workforce. When US companies go outside the priesthood and get overseas IT people because the locals don't meet their needs, then suddenly protectionism is awesome. The rest of the country has zero sympathy here. Nerds have constantly pushed technology that has cost people jobs. From replacing checkout operators, to devastating travel agencies, to Google self driving cars getting rid of taxis to "disrupting education" so you can fire a lot of university staff. When a nerd looks at someone with a job who isn't in IT, all they seem to be thinking is "how can I automate it so that this sack of meat is no longer in the equation"

    1. Re:schadenfreude by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nerds have constantly pushed technology that has cost people jobs.

      ... but this time its serious because they're talking about nerd jobs.

    2. Re:schadenfreude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nerds have constantly pushed technology that has cost people jobs.

      ... but this time its serious because they're talking about nerd jobs.

      Bah, bullshit.

      It's serious because we are talking about government screwing with the labor market. It is neither open competition (so that H1-B visa holders can at least compete and move job to job) nor is it fully closed so that it is Americans competing internally

      Instead, you have indentured servants brought in using the H1-B visa program artificially lowering wages. It is not natural competition or progress in any way.

    3. Re:schadenfreude by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      H-1Bs are different. If a US citizen decides that they are being screwed, they can give notice, quit, and find another job. If an H-1B decides that they're being screwed, then they can't move jobs unless they can find another company that will go through the H-1B sponsorship process, which takes time, before the short grace period expires and they get deported. It gives their new employer a really strong bargaining position if every day that they delay finalising the remuneration agreements puts their potential employee a day closer to being deported.

      --
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    4. Re:schadenfreude by RabidReindeer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Anyone who works for a company is an indentured servant. Do you really think companies pay you what you're worth? No. They pay you what they think they can get away with.

      An "Indentured servant" is midway between an employee and a slave. Technically, the Indenture is a debt that must be paid off, and employers can buy and sell indentures, thus effectively buying and selling the person attached to the indenture.

      In that sense, H1-B is metaphorically accurate, since an H1-B without an employer loses their right to be in the USA. It's not technically accurate unless the H1-B worker is actually working off a debt (say, because he signed up with some body shop back home and had to pay to get the Visa and posting).

      Nobody ever gets paid what they're worth. Not garbagemen, not teachers, not software developers, not CEOs. They get paid what they can get away with. Some get away with murder, others get murdered. That doesn't make them indentured. All of them can quit. Some of them can find other positions elsewhere, others may only be able to afford to quit in the sense that they can afford to starve. When you are indentured, you can't quit.

    5. Re:schadenfreude by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This isn't distorting the market.

      Something you regularly hear on slashdot is that recruiters are saying that they can't find the IT talent they need, but they are just lying so they can get H-1B visa's because there is more IT talent in the US than demand.

      This is wrong on so many levels. The term "IT talent" alone doesn't really mean much. A database admin isn't necessarily a network admin. A network admin isn't necessarily a web admin. A web admin isn't necessarily a programmer. A programmer doesn't necessarily know all there is to know about operating and maintaining large scale SAN's. Yes, there is some overlap between these, but not much. One thing about business is that you can say enterprise structures revolve heavily around active directory, yet most people you talk to on slashdot don't have the slightest clue on how to actually run an active directory infrastructure because it's "icky microsoft proprietary crap." Most nerds don't know, for example, how to manage a VMware ESXi 5.1 cluster with a Cisco Nexus 1000v virtual distributed switch (something very big these days, btw) or even any idea what a mezzanine card is.

      These are the things businesses want, not "hey, look at me, I just built a neato kernel module."

      Is there plenty of IT talent? Yeah. Is there IT talent that employers actually demand? Not so much. That's where H-1B visa's come in. Employers would rather find domestic talent than talent abroad because there is far less red tape to deal with and far less risk involved. However domestic talent is very limited. Majoring in IT, I am should probably be more concerned about H-1B visa's than anybody. Yet I am not. Unlike most in IT, I am aiming for what businesses are looking for (which also happens to be something I like) rather than just figuring that if I simply know how to build my own PC, magically somebody will want to hire me.

      I've seen what recruiters have to go through to find talent. I've actually sat down with recruiters and they've told me how much of a pain in the ass it is to find what they're looking for (and they have somebody breathing down THEIR neck if they don't.) Yes you can have people out there talking up a storm about how much they can do, but most of them aren't worth a shit, so there's also the matter of separating the wheat from the chaff.

      They still try to find local talent and will prefer it, but if they can expand their search abroad then there is so much more to choose from.

      One thing I find highly ironic is that many on slashdot will act as though deporting illegal immigrants (or just calling them illegal to begin with) and denying them the ability to work is some sort of crime against humanity. This is ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are far far FAR more likely to depend on the dole system and become a liability rather than an asset. Yet when it comes to H-1B workers, who are practically guaranteed to be an asset, they're mysteriously anti-immigrant.

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    6. Re:schadenfreude by WrecklessSandwich · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hi, I'm a professional roboticist. Here's some super awesome (often deliciously job-crushing) automation systems off the top of my head:

      Automated fast food preparation. Yes, that's right. Those jobs are going.
      Safe, easily reprogrammable robotic factory line workers. No light curtains. More cost effective than a minimum wage US worker and still improving.
      Automated chemical solution preparation. This normally eats up the time of lab researchers using their PhD to essentialy do high school chemistry that's standard grunt work.
      Modular biological lab automation systems. Similar to the previous one, this eliminates a bunch of grunt work that lab researchers normally have to do themselves.
      More laboratory automation.
      A fairly high-end pick and place machine assembling PCBs. Shenzen eat your heart out.

  2. Bogus by wienerschnizzel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First thing - the Economic Policy Institute is clearly a political think tank rather than a pure research institution. Biased.

    I was wondering how would you evaluate the skill of IT workers on a large scale so I looked at the actual article. These are their metrics:

    - salary

    - rate of patent production

    - Ph.D. dissertation awards

    - alma mater university rank

    - employment in R&D

    The data then comes from surveys.

    I call BS on this study!

  3. No longer a need for H-1B by gatkinso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now that thousands of DOD/NASA/NOAA/FAA/ect technical contractors are going to be looking for work.

    --
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  4. H1B and L1 visas are both being abused by paper+tape · · Score: 5, Informative

    The standard procedure for companies when they want to do this is to first post a job opening with outrageously high skill and experience requirements, and a sub par salary.

    Any American workers who are qualified for the position are generally already employed at the same or better wages, in positions with lower requirements - so few if any apply. If a qualified worker does apply, it is a win for the company - they've just hired an overqualified worker for 1/2 to 2/3 of the salary such a position should command.

    In the more common case that no workers apply who meet the qualifications set, the company applies for an L1 or H1B visa on the basis that it "cannot find qualified American workers". They then bring in foreign workers who do not meet the original requirements, for even lower salaries.

  5. Re: find another job? Wut?!?! by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, but a U.S. citizen does not risk being deported and if they believe that all companies are screwing them they can attempt to start their own business. An H1B visa holder must find a job with a company that can sponsor their visa in order to stay in the country and they must do so within a time frame that is well-known to all such potential employers. If you are a U.S. citizen it is unlikely that your potential employer knows how much longer you can afford to be unemployed and thus has less negotiating leverage than they do with someone with an H1B visa.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison