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Texas Bills Would Bar Warrantless Snooping On Phone Location

pigrabbitbear writes "The Supreme Court may have approved the warrantless wiretapping of American citizens for just about forever, but the good old state of Texas isn't going to take that lying down. Texas lawmakers don't believe that cell phone location data is fair game for law enforcement, and a couple identical bills filed in Texas's House and Senate would provide sweeping protections for private cell users."

29 of 277 comments (clear)

  1. Not necessary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't necessary anyway. Not when everyone willingly reports their location to Facebook and Twitter every time they need to brag about every bite of whatever they're eating. Or every bowel movement afterward.

  2. Dammit, Texas! by tylikcat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    First you're incredibly regressive (say, dealing with reproductive rights) and then you do something pretty cool.

    1. Re:Dammit, Texas! by Tailhook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That sounds a lot like the sentiments expressed yesterday about Kentucky (Rand Paul's state.) Perhaps you people need to rethink the stereotypes you've been trained with.

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    2. Re:Dammit, Texas! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I like how you generalized in your criticism of his generalizing.

    3. Re:Dammit, Texas! by operagost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe you should consider what freedom actually means instead of attaching labels to individual issues.

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    4. Re:Dammit, Texas! by StormyWeather · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think that I speak for a large amount of the libertarian bent Texans when I say that most of us don't like abortion, but if someone wants to do it themselves we aren't going to get in the middle of it in any fashion other than to make sure that the patient can become fully informed of the development of their unborn child to that point, and be informed of any medical procedure and it's positive and negative effects upon them. Heck getting orthognatic surgery is something that gets more councelling and support than an abortion in many ways. One thing a lot of pro abortion people put on their blinders about is that many women are forced or "strongly coerced" to have abortions by parents, boyfriends, bosses that knocked them up, etc. These women can be led through the process without ever really knowing what is going to happen to them physically and psychologially until it's irreversable. I know a woman that had to have the aboriton process on a fetus that died inside her. She was devestated emotionally for years, and this was something completely out of her control. Not only that she still suffered the post partem but had no baby to bring her happiness. I've also known women that have had abortions pushed by scared and angry boyfriends that regreted it to the point of depression, so there is noone that can convince me that abortion is an emotionally void process that should just be mechanically performed with no councelling at all.

      However, if you want us to pay for it, then we will fight it tooth and nail. The govenrment has no place funding chopping up babies any more than it has perusing cell phone records without a warrant. It simply just shouldn't be in the business at all unless there is cause for dire public injury. Also a lot of us are pretty pissed about the conservative overreach of government just as much as the liberal overreach. Personally for example I think the government banning gay marriage is stupid as the day is long. They deserve to be just as miserable as us married folks.

    5. Re:Dammit, Texas! by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're not exactly stereotypes if the states go out of their way to prove it. Arkansas overturning abortion vetoes and Texas holding the rest of the country hostage in regards to putting "Intelligent Design" into everybody's textbooks have actually happened and are not based on prejudices and stereotypes. The South is a very confusing place lately.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    6. Re:Dammit, Texas! by tylikcat · · Score: 2

      Naming two specific issues is stereotyping?

      It's not really that far from how I feel about Rand Paul - I really support his discussion of drones and a number of other civil liberties issues. And disagree with him pretty strongly at least as many.

      I'd be pretty happy to work with social conservatives in support of civil liberties... or to at least try to. (I mean, if they can't shut up about my body and my sexual preferences, it's just not going to work.)

    7. Re:Dammit, Texas! by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

      Wow. I actually just agreed with a libertarian on 90% of what they were saying....

      They deserve to be just as miserable as us married folks.

      Make that 91%

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    8. Re:Dammit, Texas! by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Informative

      Perhaps you'd be better off with a cluepon that you could obtain by looking over the voting record of any politician you can think of. Who 'is in office' is irrelevent to how they act, the only thing different is how the media acts and who gets blamed.

      What they do never changes, just what they say about others.

      Get a clue. Neither your blessed democrats nor those ebil republicaans are your friends or are any different from one another, you're just too blind to notice it.

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    9. Re:Dammit, Texas! by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And since you mentioned it:

      And since you mentioned it: Forcing said women to undergo a procedure where she is partially penetrated with a probe for the purpose of making her listen to the heartbeat is *beyond* any merely "informing" someone about a medical procedure.

      Having seen it done, seriously, shut the fuck up. If thats the part your concerned with you're so disconnected from reality that you shouldn't talk, it just makes you look childish.

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    10. Re:Dammit, Texas! by mjr167 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Having actually been pregnant... One of the first things they do when you show up at the doctors office and say "I'm pregnant" is do a vaginal exam. By the end of a pregnancy so many people have shoved their hands up you and grabbed your boobs (for lactation help after the baby is born) you have a whole new definition of modesty.

      They also highly recommend we let the doctors penetrate us once a year to test for cancer even when no babies are involved. Where is your outrage over that? Doctors shoving things up women is nothing new and is actually perfectly accepted.

    11. Re:Dammit, Texas! by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you realize that the libertarian position on gay marriage is to remove the underlying incentive to want to get married?

      Did you think homosexuals want to get married because of their undying belief in the institution of marriage? Fuck no..

      Homosexuals want to get married because the words 'married', 'marriage', and 'matrimony' appear 1138 times within the laws of the land passed down by our elected representatives over the years. The use of the term within the statutes most often describe special rights, benefits, and privileges given only to married people. Homosexuals want those special rights, benefits, and privileges.

      Adding homosexuals to the 'special rights group' doesnt enhance liberty. Unlinking those special rights from the institution of marriage is the only way to enhance liberty.

      A single eye opening example is that I can't file taxes jointly with my roommate that shares expenses with me. Homosexuals want the right to file taxes jointly, but the 'gay marriage movement' isn't up on giving everyone the right to file taxes jointly. Quite the opposite, if everyone that lived together could file taxes jointly then that would be one less reason for homosexuals to want to get married.

      The gay marriage movement isnt about freedom, liberty, or equality. Its not libertarian in nature at all.

      --
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    12. Re:Dammit, Texas! by Libertarian001 · · Score: 2

      "Always" and "Never" are two words that we should always never use.

    13. Re:Dammit, Texas! by Hatta · · Score: 2

      The problem is that irresponsible people have always existed and will always exist. How do we ensure their burden on society is minimal? Particularly relevant to this discussion is that irresponsible people come from irresponsible parents, so paying for abortion is likely to increase the responsibility of the average citizen.

      If irresponsible people never hurt anyone but themselves, you'd have a good point. But they usually hurt other people as well. In this case, they are hurting an innocent child who deserves to be brought up in a loving family, or not at all.

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  3. Should be Obvious by crow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All of these questions about what requires a warrant should be obvious. If civilians can do it without any special authorization, then it's fine for law enforcement to do it. If law enforcement expects special access due to their authority, then that special access needs a warrant.

    Any exceptions should be clearly stated in law, such as access to criminal and DMV databases.

    1. Re:Should be Obvious by silas_moeckel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Law enforcement needs to be held to a higher standard, higher than commercial or private ones. Simple case my son might want to build a quadcopter with a camera on it for a science project. This to me seems something reasonable for people to play with. Allowing police to do the same to gather evidence does not.

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  4. Re:The elusive... by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, Texas has a higher standard for search and seizure protection and has for decades. Ask anyone who works in criminal defense (I used to there), the standard for criminal cases in Texas isn't the US Constitution, it is the Texas Constitution.

    --
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  5. Re:Texas wasn't attacked on 9/11 by junk · · Score: 2

    Are you kidding? While I think this has little to do with the discussion, your statement is completely idiotic. The United States was attacked on 9/11. Texas is a small (albeit larger than most) part of the whole. We all got hit.

  6. Question for you liberals... by Experiment+626 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While we're on the topic of warrantless wiretaps, there's something I've been trying to figure out.

    Bush starts the warrantless wiretap thing, the reaction from the left is to fume with anger at the horrible abuse of power.

    Obama continues it and adds in the whole "assassinate Americans using robotic aircraft" twist, and reaction from the same people is "I support the President on this, though I have mild reservations on a few aspects".

    My question is... what the heck is up with that?

    1. Re:Question for you liberals... by The+Dancing+Panda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate when people say "you liberals", as if there's a conglomerate out to kill your babies and turn all your sons gay. Different people have different opinions. The things you hear on the radio that "liberals believe" or "conservatives argue" are mostly bullshit. It's like assuming Rush Limbaugh speaks for all conservatives (though...does he? His bullshit gets repeated as fact quite a bit on my FB feed).

      Anyway, I'm fairly moderate. Drone strikes should probably be considered acts of war. Attacking Americans on American soil is wrong, we have a police force to arrest those people. Attacking Americans that have joined an enemy in a war zone, and are actively fighting or actively planning to fight our troops (maybe not directly. planning attacks counts), doesn't seem wrong. We don't have a police force to arrest those sorts of people. Bringing them in and putting them on trial is the best possible solution, but it's not really practical, and the military strategy has to account for them some other way.

      Whether the war itself is just is another question entirely.

    2. Re:Question for you liberals... by MrHanky · · Score: 2

      Yeah, what's up with that? One would expect to hear from the ACLU, which one does. Perhaps the Huffington Post would have a bunch of murdered children covering their front page, like this. One would not, however, expect the Democrats themselves to attack their own presiden, which they don't. That's just not how party politics work.

    3. Re:Question for you liberals... by guibaby · · Score: 2

      Here is whats up with that:

      The difference between republicans and democrats is the spelling. That's pretty much it. They both want bigger government, more interference with our private lives, more power for their party. Neither is interested in you or your problems, unless it serves one of the purposes above. The whole conservative vs liberal thing is all smoke and mirrors. There are ways to fix this problem:

          Stop voting for people in those parties. Let states governments choose senators again. Put term limits on every elected official. Two terms is a good start. Pass a balanced budget amendment. Stop taxing people on what they make. It is entirely too expensive. It cost the economy around a trillion dollars every year. There are better ways for the government to earn their money. Fix health care. Cut the military expenditures by 90%. Make drugs legal. Prohibition costs too much in prosecution, prison and lives. Fix the currency to a commodity standard. These things need to be done to remove the monetary and power incentives from the government.

        The federal government should be in the business of DEFENDING the country. They should be in the business of handling interstate commerce. The should be in the business of managing our relationship with other countries. They should be in the business of protecting people's constitutional rights.

      They should not be in the business of managing people's private lives. They should not be in the business of interfering with the proper function of state and local governments. They should not be in the business of handling airline security. They should not be in the business of providing welfare for oil, banking or defense contractors or people.

      The words conservative and liberal do not mean anything in the general since. They only have meaning given a specific topic. Vote, but vote the issues and stop voting for idiots just because the have an r or a d after their name.

      --
      Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels.
  7. Texas by claytongulick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A lot of people are confused about how this sort of law could be passed in Texas, which according to left-wing groupthink is a regressive bible-thumping gun-toting desert filled with rednecks who hate Darwin and force kids to pray in school.

    This, of course, is nonsense. Much of the anti-Texas sentiment results from fundamental ideological differences that go to the core of the "left" versus "right" arguments.

    Texans, for very valid historical reasons, have a deep seated mistrust of centralized government and authority. This can be seen in pretty much every part of our culture, especially our constitution and court systems. This way of thinking, of course, is a direct attack on everything that those on the "left" believe in. Even worse, the evidence clearly shows that our way of governing and beliefs work very well - from tort reform, to right to work, to zero income tax (just to name a few) we have a state that cherishes individual liberty, resists government interference, and we have one of the best economies in the world to show for it.

    The success of Texas is a sore tooth to those on the "left". As a result, they are forced to rely on ad-hominem attacks and mischaracterization in a defensive attempt to protect and justify their beliefs, even though even casual comparisons of the success of cities and states that implement those beliefs shows that they are clearly misguided.

    The fact is, disturbing as it may seem to those on the "left", Texas is beautiful, tolerant, friendly and a wonderful place to live. I moved my family here from the east coast seven years ago, and it was one of the best decisions we've ever made.

    This law is just another example (among many) of Texas following in its long tradition of codifying individual rights and protecting liberties. Yes, Texas has some black marks in it's history - but show me a state (or country) that doesn't!

    There is a reason why people from all over the country are flooding here, and why we gained four seats in the house in 2010. As much vitriol, misrepresentation and flat out lying that those on the "left" do about Texas, the truth is becoming more and more evident to those around the country, that just as once the United States was the place that people fled to in order to escape oppressive government, now Texas has become a safe haven within the U.S. for the same reasons.

    --
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    1. Re:Texas by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2

      Being the state tied for second as having the greatest percentage of illegal immigrants (and second in raw numbers) might have some bearing on those statistics.
      PewResearch

  8. Re:The elusive... by JBMcB · · Score: 2

    Exactly the same as anywhere else in the US, since patents are covered by federal law.

    --
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  9. Re:Wrong by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    So is a bullet to the head or sterilization.

    Cheap propaganda shock tactic, typical of a coward who knows their ideas do not withstand scrutiny. A truly ham-handed opening move.

    Abortion is not perfect solution, not even good.

    Attacking a straw man. And also you missed word there.

    Second, there's always damage to the body, she can become sterile, or the next pregnancies become high-risk.

    All of which can result from pregnancy. This is irrelevant unless you're going to show that on average having a legal, state-sponsored and -monitored abortion is more dangerous than a pregnancy under the same system.

    women have a time limit until they can decide to have children, in a modern society, that's less than 20 years.

    Irrelevant. It's their decision whether to even exercise that right.

    We're humans damn it, sentient beings, not rabbits to breed just because there's food available.

    Logical fallacy, appeal to emotion. Technique of propaganda, just plain folks. Also, refer to my prior response.

    The government should look out for it's citizens, not it's bottom line.

    Which is what it is doing when it provides them the means to abort a pregnancy they do not want. It looks out for them by providing them choice and it looks out for you by considering your financial concerns and it looks out for both of you by not brining more unwanted lives into the world.

    Also, you misused apostrophes twice in your closing sentence. Snicker.

    --
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  10. Re:The elusive... by CncRobot · · Score: 2

    No its not. I've never heard a single progressive politician proposing a law that says that. Perhaps you could let me know.

    Progressive laws:
    You are too dumb to save for retirement, we will take your money and give it back as we see fit and call it Social Security.
    You are too dumb to medical take care of yourself, we will take your money and give it back as we see fit and call it Medicare/Medicaid
    You are too fat, we will ban sodas larger than 16 oz.
    You are too dumb to protect yourself, you should not be allowed to have a gun.
    You are too dumb to give your political opinion on TV, we will prevent you from putting on TV commericals for a candidate 90 days before an election.
    You are too dumb to develop your property correctly, we will seize it and give it to a mall developer because then the government will get more in taxes.
    You are too useless to get a job, we will take money from others and pay you not to work for 2 years straight.
    You are too dumb to get an ID, we will let anyone vote just by saying their name and pretend voter fraud never happens.

    Those are the progressive laws I know about and that they brag about day after day.

  11. I speak for all liberals... by whistlingtony · · Score: 2

    Well, i'm Tony, and I speak for ALL liberals. I asked, they're OK with me speaking for them.

    We're NOT ok with Obama's continuing of the warrantless wiretapping, and we're NOT ok with the whole "assassinate Americans without a trial" (robots or no). We're actually pretty pissed about it. If you listened to us at all, you'd have noticed that.

    Actually, I'm pretty pissed at the Democratic party. I can count on my fingers the number of representatives that I consider to be liberal. The rest are just... well look, you have the same thing over there. There's often a big difference from the stances the Republican Party holds and the stances of an actual real conservative person.

    Remember, we're people too. Not stereotypes. You Hick. :P