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Obama Administration Supports Journalist Arrested For Recording Cops

New submitter SplatMan_DK writes "Ars Technica reports that the Obama Administration has filed a brief in support of a Maryland photojournalist who says he was arrested and beaten after he took photographs of the police arresting two other men. The brief by the Justice Department argues that the U.S. Constitution protects the right to photograph the actions of police officers in public places and prohibits police officers from arresting journalists for exercising those rights. Context: 'Garcia says that when Officer Christopher Malouf approached him, Garcia identified himself as a member of the press and held up his hands to show he was only holding a camera. But Malouf "placed Mr. Garcia in a choke hold and dragged him across the street to his police cruiser," where he "subjected him to verbal and physical abuse." According to Garcia's complaint, Malouf "forcibly dragged Mr. Garcia across the street, throwing him to the ground along the way, inflicting significant injuries." Garcia says Malouf "kicked his right foot out from under him, causing Mr. Garcia to hit his head on the police cruiser while falling to the ground." Garcia claims that Malouf took the video card from Garcia's camera and put it in his pocket. The card was never returned. Garcia was charged with disorderly conduct. In December 2011, a judge found Garcia not guilty.'"

45 of 238 comments (clear)

  1. A sudden attack of reason by mbone · · Score: 5, Funny

    There must be something (besides a dusting of snow) in the DC air - this appears to be an entirely reasonable reaction by the DOJ.

    1. Re:A sudden attack of reason by Enry · · Score: 5, Informative

      Atty. General Holder made the position of the administration quite clear in his letter to Sen. Paul.

    2. Re:A sudden attack of reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While he made the Administration's position clear, the fact that they would even consider doing this should appall and outrage every citizen of this nation.

    3. Re:A sudden attack of reason by Grashnak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People like you crack me up. You do realize that a drone is just a weapons platform right? If you can conceive of a reason why the US government might reasonable kill an American citizen with a pistol, a shotgun, an assault rifle, or a tank, why would the use of a drone somehow be any different? Surely the test is whether or not the killing was legal, not what weapons platform was used to deliver the strike. OMG, they haz robots!!!!!

      --
      Life needs more saving throws.
    4. Re:A sudden attack of reason by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "People like you crack me up. You do realize that a drone is just a weapons platform right? If you can conceive of a reason why the US government might reasonable kill an American citizen with a pistol, a shotgun, an assault rifle, or a tank, why would the use of a drone somehow be any different?"

      The problem here is that so far drones haven't been used "reasonably". They've been used to kill people on the President's personal kill list, in violation of treaty, international law, and U.S. law. That's not "war", it's legally murder.

      Since ALL the evidence we have (the use of drones so far) points to illegal use of drones, why should anybody expect that they would suddenly be used in a reasonable and lawful manner, once used withing the U.S.?

      If you are the sort of person who values real evidence, you should see that there are very good, rational reasons to be opposed to domestic use of drones.

    5. Re:A sudden attack of reason by dizzy8578 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just as Gen. Hayden made the Bush administration position on the 4th amendment quite clear:

      Gen. Michael Hayden refused to answer question about spying on political enemies at National Press Club. At a public appearance, Bush's point man in the Office of National Intelligence was asked if the NSA was wiretapping Bush's political enemies. When Hayden dodged the question, the questioner repeated, "No, I asked, are you targeting us and people who politically oppose the Bush government, the Bush administration? Not a fishing net, but are you targeting specifically political opponents of the Bush administration?" Hayden looked at the questioner, and after a silence called on a different questioner. (Hayden National Press Club remarks, 1/23/06)

      --
      Landay: "...the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to violate an American's right against unreasonable searches and seizures..."

      Gen. Hayden: "No, actually - the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure."

      Landay: "But the --"

      Gen. Hayden: "That's what it says."

      Landay: "The legal measure is probable cause, it says."

      Gen. Hayden: "The Amendment says: unreasonable search and seizure."

      Landay: "But does it not say 'probable cause'?"

      Gen. Hayden [exasperated, scowling]: "No! The Amendment says unreasonable search and seizure."

      Landay: "The legal standard is probable cause, General -- "

      Gen. Hayden [indignant]: "Just to be very clear ... mmkay... and believe me, if there's any Amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it's the Fourth. Alright? And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth Amendment. The constitutional standard is 'reasonable'" ( h/t Dale)
      -- Knight-Ridder's Jonathan Landay questioned Gen. Michael Hayden at the National Press Club in January.

      --
      (4th Amendment for those who are confused...)

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      " Statutes authorizing unreasonable searches were the core concern of the framers of the 4th Amendment."
        "It is a measure of the framers' fear that a passing majority might find it expedient to compromise 4th Amendment values that these values were embodied in the Constitution itself."
          --- Justice Sandra Day O'Conner, the first woman on the Supreme Court of the United States of America. 1981-2005 (resigned)
      --

      --
      *"Cogito Ergo Liberalis"*
    6. Re:A sudden attack of reason by TrekkieGod · · Score: 2

      People like you crack me up. You do realize that a drone is just a weapons platform right? If you can conceive of a reason why the US government might reasonable kill an American citizen with a pistol, a shotgun, an assault rifle, or a tank, why would the use of a drone somehow be any different? Surely the test is whether or not the killing was legal, not what weapons platform was used to deliver the strike. OMG, they haz robots!!!!!

      Agreed, but I can't think of any possible way in which an american in US soil could be killed by a drone strike in a legal fashion.

      The way I see it, there are only three manners in which the government can kill someone in US soil:

      1. Self defense when attacked by a criminal, which rules out the drone.

      2. Armed resistance to a legal arrest, which includes being holed up in a building, which I believe should require the officers to make every effort to take the criminals alive, so they can be tried in a court of law. This includes the case where the criminals are holed up with hostages, in which case sniping them is acceptable if it looks like they're not going to give up the hostages. A drone strike is again ruled out here. If they have no hostages, then an effort needs to be made to take them alive, and if they do have hostages, then the drone strike would harm the hostages as well.

      3. After they've been sentenced in a trial to the death sentence. I don't actually approve of the death sentence, but I consider it legal until we change the books. Come to think of it, I'm actually ok if the drone strike is used in this situation. I don't think it's any more cruel than the electric chair, to have the sentenced men tied up in an open field and then order the drone strike. That said, I would argue it's far too expensive and impractical.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    7. Re:A sudden attack of reason by DJRumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I must have missed that memo. I looked through my mail for anything with a subject called "The Presidents Personal Kill List", but I'm guessing I'm just not on that distribution.

      I think this is where a [Citation Needed] is justified. At the parent stated, this make believe scenario was created by Rand Paul. In my opinion, it was done for one reason. Rand Paul personal ambition. The nation has always had a top list of most wanted, and dead or alive for a terrorist isn't a problem. It wasn't a problem for Bush, it wasn't a problem for Clinton, and it wasn't a problem for Bush Sr. They don't stop and try to take these folks into custody. If someone has declared them intentions and is clearly in collusion with a terrorist cell, then they have forfeited their rights as a citizen, and have declared themselves an enemy of the state.

      Police will already shoot and kill an armed and dangerous person if they pull a weapon and the officer fears for his life. Now take that same scenario, apply it to a suspected terrorist with a dirty bomb. I have zero issue with said terrorist getting his ass blown away before he might harm hundreds or thousands in an OKC style bombing, or drastically worse, a dirty nuclear weapon. Walking up to such a person, and trying to arrest them and read them their miranda rights is more likely to just get them to trigger the bomb. A drone can take a person out before they have to to react and do such a thing.

      The Constitution already charges the president with protecting it's citizens from threats both foreign and domestic. Holder already stated that using a drone, on a common American Citizen, siting in a Starbucks, would be an unnecessary use of force. That is not an ambiguous statement. I don't care what 'party' a President hails from. Any President who used a drone on innocent civilians without an overwhelming need to protect thousands more, would be impeached, and likely thrown in prison. Rand Paul claiming that this President could somehow do just that, and not face any consequences as a result was pure rhetoric, and beneath the dignity that the Office of the President deserves as a leader of the United States. Even his own party members called him out on it.

      Lastly, Rand himself said he had no problem and would expect the President to use a drone to take out a terrorist who was an imminent threat in such a situation.

      That 13 hours was all for the benefit of Rand, and no one else.

    8. Re:A sudden attack of reason by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      No, you sound crazy. This happens all the time. Enjoy your confirmation bias. I'm certainly not an authority ass kisser, but needing to view the world in black and white means you're going to be wrong a lot of the time.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    9. Re:A sudden attack of reason by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Rand Paul is the one who thought up the scenario, so we should be appalled and outraged at Rand Paul?

      Yes we should. Senator Paul was just obfuscating the real issue. Killing citizens with drones is not an issue: the rules should be exactly the same as any other use of deadly force. It is not different because it is "with a drone". The issue is spying on citizens. When it comes to spying, drones are a game changer (in good ways and bad).

    10. Re:A sudden attack of reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I must have missed that memo. I looked through my mail for anything with a subject called "The Presidents Personal Kill List", but I'm guessing I'm just not on that distribution.

      When even that bastion of conservative outrage, The Huffington Post, has tagged over 25 of their own articles with "Obama Kill List" it seems pretty silly to pretend it doesn't exist.

    11. Re:A sudden attack of reason by DJRumpy · · Score: 2

      I didn't state it doesn't exist. In fact I indicated that it's common for a sitting president to have a kill list. I do question that this kill list contains anything but terrorists, or suspected terrorists. Making it appear as if he's just randomly selecting people with a dart and a dartboard is disingenuous at best, and outright lying at it's worst.

      Just because an article notes a phrase, doesn't validate it as true. I would expect someone from /. to at least do a little due diligence. By your standard, simply putting "Obama Kill List" here on /. is sufficient citation?

    12. Re:A sudden attack of reason by DJRumpy · · Score: 2

      Now you are equating a suspected terrorist in the midst of causing imminent harm, to assassinating someone while they are asleep? Really? Perhaps you should go back and read Holder's reply. It's very clear. Perhaps your reading comprehension needs work.

      You might also try to remember that during military action, or war, civilians can and do get in the way. It is unavoidable. Claiming the President is sitting there directing civilians to be shot is bullshit. it's also bullshit claiming those deaths are all due to American action. A large portion are from factions within Iraq, Iran, etc. Nice straw man. It's also bullshit claiming all of those deaths are drone related. Estimates for Pakistan for example show drone related deaths to be about 2000-3500. Seems that number falls far short of your hundreds of thousands, but don't let facts get in the way.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

      It should also be noted that the Pakistani military believes that upwards of 80% of those killed in drone attacks were militants. I don't recall the twin towers being a hotbed of military planning, warehouses for weapons, or anything of that sort, but I must have missed that memo too. What they did was an act of war. You do what you can to minimize civilian fatalities (or at least the US does...the terrorists do not).

      As to terrorists hiding in schools, markets, homes, etc. This is war. It's ugly. Terrorists are also known to reside in such places for just that reason. To use their own citizens as human shields. Civilian losses are always considered. Unless you have some evidence that these civilian losses were somehow disregarded as irrelevant, your just blowing smoke. Then again, you are posting anonymously. Go figure.

    13. Re:A sudden attack of reason by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do question that this kill list contains anything but terrorists, or suspected terrorists.

      It doesn't seem to take much to become a "suspect terrorist" these days. Everyone gets molested at airports for being possible terrorists, and being a suspected terrorist is just a step up from that.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    14. Re:A sudden attack of reason by aztracker1 · · Score: 2

      Not with a missile.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    15. Re:A sudden attack of reason by RazorSharp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree with a lot of what you say, but I do take issue with this:

      If someone has declared them intentions and is clearly in collusion with a terrorist cell, then they have forfeited their rights as a citizen, and have declared themselves an enemy of the state.

      I think in many situations, such as where someone is colluding with a terrorist cell but hasn't declared their intentions, that they deserve a trial. The problem is that the government is likely to claim that particular actions function as a declaration of intent. Here's a ridiculous but not entirely implausible situation:

      Say an American pyromaniac moves to Pakistan. He doesn't align himself to any terrorist cause, he's just obsessed with blowing things up and his freedom in the U.S. could be jeopardized by such actions. He buys several explosives from a terrorist cell and this action is observed by a CIA spook who doesn't realize the guy is just a pyromaniac who intends to harmlessly detonate these devices in the middle of the desert. Our pyromaniac takes his explosives to his little desert shanty only to be blown away by a drone attack while he's setting up his new toys.

      Let's say the guy's family finds out about it and they're outraged. They all know he was just a pyromaniac, they know he wasn't allied with terrorists. But the government is likely to claim that 1) his actions and associations with terrorists warranted treating him like a terrorist and 2) by buying items from terrorists he was in effect funding them, which makes him an enemy of the state.

      The problem with allowing some government agency, agent, official, or whatever decide what constitutes a 'declaration of intent' or 'clear collusion' is that it could be abused. Say a hacker who, although he loves the U.S.A., is disgusted by the unconstitutional activities of certain agencies, decides to move to Iran. He moves to Iran so he can protest in the form of attacking the computer systems of these agencies and he's fairly certain the Iranians won't extradite him for such activity. While this is certainly a criminal act, does it make him a terrorist? Does it make him an enemy of the state?

      Or one last hypothetical. Say Bradley Manning was informed that he was ratted out by the filthy rat Adrian Lamo before getting arrested. And somehow Bradley smuggled himself out of the country and was granted amnesty by. . .let's go with Syria. More than one politician has declared Manning to be an enemy of the state, to be guilty of treason, to be guilty of aiding and abetting the enemy. Are we to let the president send that drone after Manning? To leave it up to the president's discretion?

      I think Rand Paul approached an important issue, and hopefully his stunt made people consider the moral repercussions of drones, the way our government deals with terrorism, the rights of the citizen, and warfare in general; but it appears to me that, like you said, Rand was just politicizing an issue and drawing attention to himself. Maybe his little filibuster will draw attention to the important issues but I doubt that was his intent - his intent was to spew FUD.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    16. Re:A sudden attack of reason by jamesh · · Score: 2

      There must be something (besides a dusting of snow) in the DC air - this appears to be an entirely reasonable reaction by the DOJ.

      The problem is that an idiot with a camera can manipulate the footage for their own gains. This happened in Australia just recently where a fairly violent arrest was made at the Mardi Gras after a guy 'groped' a stranger (whether it was sexual assault or not is for the courts to decide). The video released initially showed the cops in a very bad light - seeming unprovoked brutality, throwing him to the ground etc. Video and feedback that came out later showed that the cops started by trying to talk to the guy, who then realised he could actually be in a bit of trouble and became very violent, and while it may be that the police used 'excessive force' during the arrest, measuring the exact amount of force required is a very difficult thing to do so I don't really see that there is much of a problem. So go ahead and film whatever you want, but if you release the video you should be held to the same level of accountability as journalists (which unfortunately these days isn't very high...)

    17. Re:A sudden attack of reason by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2

      Do you have a list of these US citizens being arrested and classified as terrorists at a US airport

      I never said anyone was classified as a terrorist. I said that everyone is being treated like potential terrorists. Since the government quite clearly violates the constitution right out in the open, it wouldn't surprise me if normal people ended up on a list of suspected terrorists.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    18. Re:A sudden attack of reason by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The nation has always had a top list of most wanted, and dead or alive for a terrorist isn't a problem.

      Yes, it is actually. Authorizing the execution without trial of an American citizen, even one accused of terrorism, is illegal, a violation of the Constitution's guarantee of due process. And authorizing the assassination of a citizen of another county who is not a combatant or a military commander is a violation of international law.

      In fact, the Army is expressly forbidden from offering a reward for an enemy "dead or alive". (Assuming this hasn't been superseded since this was written in the "anything does" post-9/11 moral decay of the U.S.)

      A soldier with a gun is (if he's operating lawfully) firing at combatants on a battlefield. Drones have largely been used to slaughter people who are not currently engaging in hostile activities and are not on a battlefield.

      Yes, the President could kill or order the killing of someone who was about to set of a bomb and kill many innocents. But he needs zero government power to do that -- if you or I saw someone about to push the button on a dirty bomb, we have the legal right (perhaps even the moral responsibility) to shoot them if we're able. That has fuck-all to do with how drones have been used; and given the crimes that have already been perpetrated, it's reasonable to question what further crimes

      Any President who used a drone on innocent civilians without an overwhelming need to protect thousands more, would be impeached, and likely thrown in prison.

      None of the three American citizens slaughtered so far in drone attacks were convicted of crimes, or belonged to the military of any nation, and therefore were legally innocent civilians. There was no imminent need to kill them. Yet Obama remains unimpeached and free.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    19. Re:A sudden attack of reason by nbauman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While it is true that an idiot with a camera can manipulate footage for his own gain http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/07/local/la-me-0308-acorn-20130308 it's also true that lawyers know how to investigate criminal incidents and can often expose the manipulation. For example, a defense lawyer who deals with that stuff all the time said, the first thing you do is look at the whole unedited tape. If the Obama administration had done that with James O'Keefe's attack on ACORN, O'Keefe wouldn't have been able to get away with his lies. Under US law, BTW, if there is an investigation into a crime, a judge can subpoena the entire video. That applies even to journalists, as well as to fake journalists like O'Keefe, and to bystanders who record it on cellphones.

      After an assault or a police confrontation, when different witnesses tell different stories, it's hard to reconstruct the facts. If you have a video of the incident, even part of the incident, that gives you some objective, reliable information to work with. Everybody knows that the video is just part of the story. The video doesn't testify by itself in court. Lawyers have to interview the photographer, consider the circumstances of the recording, and treat the video like any other piece of evidence. If you show a video of the cops beating up a suspect, the cops' lawyers have the right to give their version of what went on before that.

      The more evidence you have, the more likely you are to figure out the truth.

      When I look at the history of videos of police encounters in the last few years, I see a lot of incidents where the cops blatantly violated the law, committed assaults against innocent people, and committed perjury to cover it up. The videos at least got the false charges thrown out (although very seldom were the cops fired or prosecuted). Overall, the effect of videos has been good.

      Everybody who dealt with the cops knew for years that this was going on. Videos are making it easier to prove it. Cities are going to get hit with $500,000 lawsuits like Manny Garcia is bringing. The experience has been that they just settle, don't punish the cops, and don't reform their practices. But maybe if they lose a few millions of dollars in lawsuits, and their taxpayers find their real estate taxes are doubling to pay for it, they'll start to pay attention.

    20. Re:A sudden attack of reason by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      1) The police should have a video recorder on their person which they cannot open or alter. Preferably it should stream to an eternal server whenever a connection is available.
      2) Any filming by individuals can be compared against that footage.

      Watch "Don't talk to the police" on Youtube.
      In it, a defense attorney and a policemen will both tell you that.
      1) what you say "can and will be used against you" but legally can't be used for you.
      2) it's only the policeman's memory of what happened which counts.
      3) if you are taken into the police station, you should have an attorney.
      4) the police are legally allowed to lie to suspects and they do lie.
      5) if a policeman says they are trying to help you, get a lawyer.
      6) Just about ANY direct statement can be turned into a legal case against you. Even if you are innocent.
      7) you may be smarter than one policeman but you are not smarter than a roomful of policemen and they have a lot more experience in the situation than you do.

      Police have a job. Maintain order, build prosecutable cases, and write tickets to gather revenue.

      All this said, you should donate to the policeman survivors fund (I do) but also be aware there are a dozen other professions who die at a higher rate than they do (including farmers, alaskan fisherman, and coal miners).

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    21. Re: A sudden attack of reason by Urza9814 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No. First of all, prior to Paul's filibuster, the official policy of the administration on killing us citizens on us soil was that it was perfectly legal and hypothetically possible. No further conditions on that. At least now they've narrowed it down to people engaged in "combat"...though we have no way of knowing how broadly that is defined, so in a practical sense it doesn't change much.

      The real issue though is that Paul did not go far enough. Done strikes are just as unconstitutional in Pakistan as they would be in Minnesota. The Bill of Rights is not some list of privileges given to us by the government. It is a list of rights, inherent to all human beings, that the government may not violate. Doesn't matter if they're inside our outside of our borders, and it doesn't matter if they're citizens. If we haven't declared war, we're required to give the accused a trial. It's that simple. There's no declaration of war against Pakistan, for just one example, so we can't legally use drones there.

  2. The card was never returned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When a lowly citizen destroys evidence, it's a crime.

    1. Re:The card was never returned. by evanism · · Score: 2

      Ah, but the government can destroy its own citizens and it is not.

      An interesting thing, no?

      We think we have progressed so far, only to find we are rally 2 steps behind.

      --
      Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
    2. Re:The card was never returned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When a lowly citizen kidnaps and beats a reporter, strong-arm robs them of an expensive camera, and then commits perjury by accusing them of a crime in open court, then that lowly citizen goes away for a VERY VERY long time.

  3. Hmmm. by boarder8925 · · Score: 2

    Considering the administration's attacks on whistleblowers, irony abounds.

  4. Support? by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Support is not writing a brief. Support is indicting the officers in question for Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law. These officers deserve the same treatment Obama's DOJ gave Aaron Swartz.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  5. Cops Are Never Held Accountable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well, if it's anything like the Alex Landau case, there won't be any charges against the police.

  6. Enough is enough! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The officers should be charged with theft and assault. They should also be fired.

    1. Re:Enough is enough! by Virtucon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, since the DOJ is involved, I'd make it a Federal Civil rights abuse case as well against the officers. The police in this nation have become more like paramilitary thugs in most places. Here's just a recent more pointed example. They do have a difficult job to do and yes, there's nearly a 100% chance that every time they arrest somebody or go about conducting their business, they'll be recorded by a phone or some other device. They just need to get used to it and do their job and stop abusing the public!

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  7. It's better, it's not just "journalists" by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The brief explicitly says "the First Amendment right to record police officers performing public duties extends to both the public and members of the media, and the Court should not make a distinction between the publicâ(TM)s and the mediaâ(TM)s rights to record here".

    This is all very strange. Hang on, is it Opposite Day?

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:It's better, it's not just "journalists" by Rogerborg · · Score: 2

      Followup note to myself: be sure to cite this sudden passion for exercising First Amendment rights on public streets the next time police force protesters into "Free Speech Zone" cages.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:It's better, it's not just "journalists" by Cwix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Free speech zones are for stifling protesters.

      In direct contradiction to the right to free speech.

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  8. Jail for physical assault by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

    Malouf should be in prison for a number of reasons including armed robbery and battery.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  9. Re:prohibits arresting just journalists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In Lovell v. City of Griffin, Chief Justice Hughes defined the press as, "every sort of publication which affords a vehicle of information and opinion."

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=303&invol=444

  10. The Communist Bastard by fermion · · Score: 2

    How dare he give the populous the right to monitor the police state.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  11. There should be apps for that by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Which is why if you are going to record the police, make sure it's uploading live or will e-mail the pictures away from the clumsy hands of the law

    There's this app for New Yorkers evidently. Any suggestions from anyone for those of us who don't live in NY?

  12. DOJ explicitly rejects the "just journalists" line by DragonWriter · · Score: 5, Informative

    TFS is (and so is TFA) misleading when it says that the government argues that the Constitution "prohibits police officers from arresting journalists for exercising those rights", as the actual brief filed by the Justice Department explicitly argues (heck, its a bolded section heading) that "Members of the Public and the Media Are Both Entitled to Protection Under the First Amendment", and, more specifically, "The First Amendment protections afforded members of the public and press when recording public police activity are coextensive" and "Although Mr. Garcia alleges facts here that show that he is a member of the press, this makes no difference to the analysis under the First Amendment",and "Courts have long held that recordings made by private citizens of police conduct or other items of public interest are entitled to First Amendment protection".

    The DoJ isn't arguing that police can't arrest journalists from recording police activity, the DoJ is arguing that "that both the First and Fourth Amendments protect an individual who peacefully photographs police activity on a public street", and that "core First Amendment conduct, such as recording a police officer performing duties on a public street, cannot be the sole basis" for discretionary charges such as disturbing the peace, etc., and, finally, that "the First Amendment right to record police officers performing public duties extends to both the public and members of the media" without distinction.

  13. Re:Google Glass by Grashnak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's one problem Google Glass will sort out - none of this `you can't film here` crap. I'll film wherever the hell I like, officer.

    So your theory is that cops who are willing to beat you up and take your camera will be unwilling to beat you up and take your geek glasses?

    --
    Life needs more saving throws.
  14. Re:Reporter Arrested for recording cops by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but you can only file a lawsuit for MONEY... you can't file a lawsuit say to compel the court to disolve their marriages and send their kids to CPS. You can't file a lawsuit to have them striped naked and paraded through prison for a week.... I'd even settle for a 7x7 whipping on the courthouse steps.

    THOSE are the kinds of things that need to happen to stop these abuses.... hurtful, spiteful, public punishments.

  15. RTFB: "journalists" is just bad reporting by DragonWriter · · Score: 4, Informative

    They want to support the "journalists" other wise it would mean "everyone" this way they can come back and arrest/prosecute non journalists.

    This argument becomes harder to maintain when you read the actual government brief, and realize that while Ars Technica (and, following them, the Slashdot summary) use language that makes it seem like a government defense of special privileges for journalists, the actual brief takes the exact opposite position, arguing "that both the First and Fourth Amendments protect an individual who peacefully photographs police activity on a public street" and "the First Amendment right to record police officers performing public duties extends to both the public and members of the media, and the Court should not make a distinction between the public’s and the media’s rights to record here."

  16. Incentives by DragonWriter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So your theory is that cops who are willing to beat you up and take your camera will be unwilling to beat you up and take your geek glasses?

    I think the reference is more to the fact that, as a device that is normally connected and uploading to the internet, the fact that beating someone up and taking their "geek glasses" won't actually let you seize and destroy the recording, and just makes it more likely that, on top of whatever they were recording that made you want to seize the device getting out, the video of your beating them up to seize the device will also get out, which sort of removes the whole incentive for the beating-and-seizing behavior in the first place.

  17. Re:Google Glass by SternisheFan · · Score: 3, Informative
    Since google glasses stream, or instant upload, the video, the taking of any physical sd card won't matter much. Will seizure of your google online account laws be next?

    - - -

    May you live in interesting times. - Ancient Chinese curse

  18. It's a telling sign of recent behavior by the DoJ by Fned · · Score: 2

    ... that until I read the summary, I actually wasn't sure if the headline meant the Obama administration was on the side of the journalist, or was on the side of arresting journalists who record cops...

  19. Re:It's a telling sign of recent behavior by the D by Requiem18th · · Score: 2

    Also can we stop saying Obama Administration? Is the US gubermint. When we are talking about Obama let's bring these issues back into context but when we are talking about the DoJ, calling it Obama Administration is just insidious bickering.

    --
    But... the future refused to change.