Obama Wants To Fund Clean Energy Research With Oil & Gas Funds

An anonymous reader writes "The Obama Administration has put forth a proposal to collect $2 billion over the next 10 years from revenues generated by oil and gas development to fund scientific research into clean energy technologies. The administration hopes the research would help 'protect American families from spikes in gas prices and allow us to run our cars and trucks on electricity or homegrown fuels.' In a speech at Argonne National Laboratory, Obama said the private sector couldn't afford such research, which puts the onus on government to keep it going. Of course, it'll still be difficult to get everyone on board: 'The notion of funding alternative energy research with fossil fuel revenues has been endorsed in different forms by Republican politicians, including Alaskan senator Lisa Murkowsi. But the president still faces an uphill battle passing any major energy law, given how politicized programs to promote clean energy have become in the wake of high-profile failures of government-backed companies.'"

Comments

How is this not a good idea?

[HangingChad]

The notion of funding alternative energy research with fossil fuel revenues has been endorsed in different forms by Republican politicians

Until the president proposes it, then it automatically becomes "socialism" and they'll oppose it.

Re:How is this not a good idea?

[CncRobot]

His fisrt term he put $80 Billion towards this. You will remember great hits like Solendra, A123, and Fisker. The list of companies getting the money from that original program read like a whos-who of campaign donors. Many of the companies went bankrupt quickly after getting the federal money and none of them produced anything usable.

So, to anser your question "How is this not a good idea?" The track record is this will be a slush fund to reward his friends and accomplish nothing useful. Corrupt politics and corporate cronyism at its finest. Nothing to do with "socialism", just plain theft.

Re:How is this not a good idea?

[amiga3D]

No problem agreeing with you on the fact that theft is a two party activity. The point is that this is just more money being pissed away while we go into a hole at a rate of around 100 billion dollars a month. Enough already!

Re:How is this not a good idea?

[Ichijo]

Let's also fix the market failures of air pollution and carbon emissions by internalizing their costs into the price of fossil fuels. If you agree that correcting market failures makes the free market more efficient, then you must be in favor of a carbon tax.

Re:How is this not a good idea?

[joocemann]

Almost all of those green energy investments actually are working out. More than 95% of them are.

That success rate of investment is higher than almost anything. Most new businesses fail. Most new business ipo are a crapshoot.

When you stop focusing on the very low minority of failure (which we also know was induced by China) it was a huge success.

We should pull all oil subsidies and invest in green tech. Those awesome new batteries from UCLA would be perfect.

Re:How is this not a good idea?

[ATMAvatar]

He provided evidence. You refuted his post, but provided no such evidence yourself. If it is as true as you say, surely you are capable of providing said evidence. As you are making the counter-assertion, it is completely on you to provide it, not on the rest of us to dig around for it.

And, I hope you realize that you are equally guilty of 1. But Obama and 2. Attacking the poster.

Re:How is this not a good idea?

[WindBourne]

So, let me see if I understand this.
China subsidizes Steel companies in China back in the late 80's, and then dumps on western markets esp America destroying others. Once they took over the markets, then the prices are double what they would have been prior to China's dumping.
From there, they do the same with electronics. We used to get cheap electronics here produced by Americans. Now, they are produced in China. Of course, a CHEAP smart phone here is around $150. Over in China, a cheap smart phone is $30.
They did the same with clothing and then fabric. Moved on to our furniture.

NOW, they flat out steal our R&D, subsidize the development in China and then dump it on our markets.
In fact, to get our AE industry off the ground we provide subsidies that is open to any and all companies. OTOH, China subsidizes ONLY Chinese companies, but all is dumped on the global market.

And you do not see an issue with this. Really?

Re:How is this not a good idea?

[joocemann]

500 million is a drop in the bucket of things you should be worried about, and, again, was a very minor loss in a pool of successful choices.

This is just like the 32 million dollar muffins that the DOJ was buying each year and the news made a big deal about.

80BN in yearly oil subsidies for an archaic and dangerous system that is already highly profitable? And you're moaning about 1/160th of that, and its not even a yearly cost. PFfft.

Tornadoes in Teacups. You will forever be upset until you gain a grasp of the words SIGNIFICANCE, MAGNITUDE, etc.

Hopelessly off-target

[LenE]

It is unfortunate that government is apt to pursue political solutions rather than viable practical solutions. That's the world we live in.

The premise here is that gas and oil companies should be punished, and their gains should be confiscated and given to other companies with better intentions. The real world truth is that there are no oil or gas companies anymore, and there hasn't been for the last fifteen years, at least.

No, what used to be oil companies have all become energy companies. They all invest heavily in alternative energy technologies, because they have the most to lose if anything does become viable and threatens their current revenue generators. I've spoken with several former CEO's of these former oil companies, and they were, to a person, fixated on the end of oil and the emergence of alternative energy sources. I left these conversations wondering why these CEO's were more pro-alternative than any environmentalist I had ever met.

The government confiscation of funds from these companies, and the eventual redistribution to campaign donors fronting "new" energy companies will only slow down the discovery of practical and sustainable alternative energy sources.

-- Len

Re:Hopelessly off-target

[Sloppy]

These companies don't get subsidies for being oil companies.

Suppose Iraq were to invade Kuwait, and as a result, market experts predicted that oil prices would go up, long-term. One example of a subsidy for being an oil company, would be to use public funds (collected as income taxes or through currency inflation) to send military forces out to kick Iraq's ass our of Kuwait.

Suppose people typically used oil in a manner that tore its molecules apart to release energy, and then they dumped the resulting lower-energy molecules into the public atmosphere where they don't just magically go away, and where most physics-based (as opposed to faith-based) models predict the waste products cause various undesired side-effects at public expense. An example of a subsidy, would be to knowingly allow this pollution to happen, without making the oil users do something to clean up the CO2, or if they can't do that, charging them a fee for inefficient government programs to clean up the CO2.

The two examples of subsidies that I gave, both turn out to be real, rather than merely hypothetical. You might even call these subsidies good ideas if you insist, but let's not pretend they're not subsidies. These are examples of government using its power to artificially distort the energy market toward oil being more relatively affordable than competing energy sources, and these political decisions have the effect of reducing the natural free market incentives for developing clean[er] energy. ("Picking winners and losers" in Republicanese, if that helps anyone understand it.)

Like I said, some people may be able to make a good case for this manipulation of the market. I just want everyone to admit we're doing it, that's it's not something a tech-neutral, or a free-market-uber-alles, government would do. And somehow, I have a hunch that once we start acknowledging that, the case for how it's a good idea, may be challenged. It'll be a good debate.

Re:So....

[AK Marc]

I still can't believe you morons elected him. Twice.

We elected Bush twice as well. You are just now noticing the voters are morons?