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Walgreens To Build First Self-Powered Retail Store

MojoKid writes "We hear about green deployment practices all the time, but it's often surrounding facilities such as data centers rather than retail stores. However, Walgreens is determined to go as green as possible, and to that end, the company announced plans for the first net zero energy retail store. The store is slated to be built at the corner of Chicago Avenue and Keeney Street in Evanston, Illinois, where an existing Walgreens is currently being demolished. The technologies Walgreens is plotting to implement in this new super-green store will include solar panels and wind turbines to generate power; geothermal technology for heat; and efficient energy consumption with LED lighting, daylight harvesting, and 'ultra-high-efficiency' refrigeration."

37 of 186 comments (clear)

  1. But... by longbot · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...is it powered by the tears of employees?

    --
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it! --Longbottle
    1. Re:But... by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think Walmart has that patented.

    2. Re:But... by hedwards · · Score: 2

      And ironically enough, that means higher taxes for everybody else as they purposefully fail to pay a living wage or provide any sort of benefits. And, undercut the local retailers leaving no jobs either before they move onto a new community to suck dry.

    3. Re:But... by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    4. Re:But... by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Walmart is quite cheap. Far more people work there than shop there. It's a net win - just like factory automation reducing the number of factory workers is a net win. Also, Walmart really pisses off hipsters, so it's twice as good.

      Higher taxes for everyone else comes from voting for bigger government, not from Walmarts.

      And, undercut the local retailers leaving no jobs either before they move onto a new community to suck dry.

      Riiiight, just like the industrial revolution destroyed everyone's standard of living by putting all those local craftsmen out of work. Reducing the cost of products and services is called "technology" and it's a good thing, despite the workers it always displaces.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:But... by germansausage · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know everybody loves to bash Walmart, but is really justified? At the risk of greatly oversimplifying, you can help poor people by 1. getting them more money, or 2. making the things they need to buy cost less. Walmart is working very hard at doing thing 2. Do you think Walmart's margins are higher or lower than the retail industry average?

    6. Re:But... by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is what the tribalists dont understand.

      When things are cheaper because of greater efficiencies, everyone involved wins.

      In truly free trade, everyone wins. Whenever I am better at A's than B's, and you are better at B's than A's, then trading is of benefit to both of us.

      Thats regardless of any other factors. For instance, I can also be better at B's than you are at B's, yet trade still benefits both of us because no matter how much better I am then you at B's, I am still better at A's than B's.

      The complaints about companies like walmart are cloud and mirrors around the idea that you may not be good enough at either A's or B's to make a reasonable living (= low wages.) But this really isn't an argument against walmart.. the problem is skills. Those attacking walmart and corporations like it won't improve anyones skills, but may end up costing people their low skill jobs.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    7. Re:But... by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I love impersonal places. I hate having smalltalk with a 85 year old grocery bagger. Just sell me my shit so I can leave, I don't need to see a friendly face and exchange ``how are you''s with people just to buy a loaf of bread.

    8. Re:But... by div_2n · · Score: 2

      Just because things are cheaper does NOT mean everyone involved wins.

      Mathematically speaking, Wal-Mart is a huge vacuum sucking money out of communities. The profits they are making? It's money sucked out of communities.

    9. Re:But... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Walmart is quite cheap. Far more people work there than shop there.

      Now that's quite the business plan. Less patrons than customers.

      Also, Walmart really pisses off hipsters, so it's twice as good.

      Higher taxes for everyone else comes from voting for bigger government, not from Walmarts.

      You just got back from Palin's speech at CPAC didn't you?

      Reducing the cost of products and services is called "technology" and it's a good thing, despite the workers it always displaces.

      As long as it isn't a race to the bottom, on that we agree. This disruption is going to be pretty interesting. We're reaching the era where humans will be freed from any sort of manual labor.

      I was listening to a TED talk today on what the future might hold. One presenter pointed out that the industrial revolution came along and allowed humans to extend their physical strength and dexterity in the production of devices. So much that it made a mockery of everything that came before. Now we are in an information age, where what we can know via our connections to the world. You and I can can access the same info that a dullard woth a smartphone can. Ther success or failure will depend on whether a person uses this new power to actually do something, or if they are contented to tweet and contact bff's on Facebook.

      This will very likely make a severely striated two society system for some time. There will probably come a time when we try to figure out what people are going to do to earn their keep. I know that there aren't many professions now that cannot be performed by machinery. Beyond that, we'll settle down into a new world that will essentially make a mockery of the one we are in now.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:But... by WillAdams · · Score: 2

      Yep. Money spent w/ a local Mom-and-Pop store will turn over 5 times in a local community on average --- money spent at Wal-Mart immediately goes over-seas to the Chinese manufacturers, into the Walton family pockets, or into the brokerage accounts of people who own stock (minus what their broker pockets).

      It's not sustainable. Look at:

      http://www.statemaster.com/graph/lif_wal_sto_num_of_sup_percap-stores-number-supercenters-per-capita

      and compare it w/ how well local economies are doing. I know, correlation != causation, but at the least, it merits more thought.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    11. Re:But... by Rumeal · · Score: 2

      I know everybody loves to bash Walmart, but is really justified? At the risk of greatly oversimplifying, you can help poor people by 1. getting them more money, or 2. making the things they need to buy cost less. Walmart is working very hard at doing thing 2. Do you think Walmart's margins are higher or lower than the retail industry average?

      There are other sides to this, though, such as employment. It is taken as a given that Walmart's entry into a market places downward pressure on prices, and that there are benefits from this. However, their entry into a market also places downward pressure on wages. Making things cost less only helps if it isn't outweighed by reductions in pay. The price reductions from Walmart (generally a good thing) end up being distributed across the income scale, but the lower-income segments alone face the decrease in pay to low-paying jobs that accompany Walmart's entry into a market. Walmart is an income re-distribution machine, providing most of its benefit to people with higher incomes, and most of its downside to people with low incomes. See: http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/research/walmart.shtml for (much) more on this. There may also be more of a wage-depressing effect than a price-depressing effect, which would make the bargain bad for the economy overall, let alone its redistributing effects. Let's also look at what Walmart's margins actually are, and whether or not they could be lower, as well as where they come from. This article examines those questions, and finds evidence that Walmart could both remain competitive and pay employees more: http://www.epi.org/publication/ib223/ .

  2. Geothermal heating? by ThomasBHardy · · Score: 2

    I confess that I'm not really familiar with the technology, but this one gives me pause. They are building a Walgreens on a street corner that will use geothermal energy for heat? Can someone with a bit of knowledge share some insight on exactly how they plan to do that in a corner store?

    --
    Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic
    1. Re:Geothermal heating? by Latentius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The ground can be used as a source or drain, depending on the season. In winter, it's warmer than the atmosphere, and in summer it's colder.

      But yes, essentially just a heat pump.

    2. Re:Geothermal heating? by overshoot · · Score: 4, Informative

      The preferred term is "geoexchange" precisely to avoid this confusion.

      --
      Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    3. Re:Geothermal heating? by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      They will use a geothermal heat pump which is very different than geothermal heating or geothermal electricity.

    4. Re:Geothermal heating? by plover · · Score: 2

      Actually, your heat pump is probably efficient all the way down to about 20 - 22F. Any colder than that, and it's more efficient to burn natural gas or propane.

      Even if it's running 24x7 at 30F, it's using less energy than burning fuel.

      --
      John
    5. Re:Geothermal heating? by InterGuru · · Score: 2

      There is lot of confusion, since the term "geothermal" is used for two different technologies. The first is digging deep to hot rocks and using water to extract the heat and doing something with it. This has been used for over a century, but has a lot of problems with it.

      The other is going a few feet down to use the ground as a heat source or sink for a heat pump/air conditioner. The latter is what is used now. The problem is that the cost of digging and laying the pipes sometimes cancels out the energy savings.

      For more see this comment

    6. Re:Geothermal heating? by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      There is lot of confusion, since the term "geothermal" is used for two different technologies. The first is digging deep to hot rocks and using water to extract the heat and doing something with it. This has been used for over a century, but has a lot of problems with it.

      The other is going a few feet down to use the ground as a heat source or sink for a heat pump/air conditioner. The latter is what is used now.

      Um, no. Geothermal heat means extracting heat from the ground, which may be done with *either* a deep well *or* a (relatively) shallow horizontal array. The transfer is usually accomplished via a heat pump, so the same system can also provide cooling.

      See the articles on Geothermal heat and Geothermal heat pumps on Wikipedia.

  3. sweet, self powered store by Osgeld · · Score: 2

    that never has anything I want so I end up going to the CVS across the street. Never understood how places like kmart and walgreens stay in business, espectally wallgreens, which is a drug store, with less medical supplies in it than the grocery store.

    1. Re:sweet, self powered store by Latentius · · Score: 2

      It all depends on where you live. CVS isn't located everywhere, for one thing. The Walgreens near where I used to live was always fairly well-stocked, and there was almost always one of those much closer to people than going to a full grocery store.

      They serve a purpose, even if it's a limited one.

  4. Lighting Choices Are Not Extraordinary by TheStonepedo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Daylight harvesting is a nasty misnomer - it really just means turning the artificial light down when natural light makes the space acceptably-bright. This is why Walmart stores built in the past two decades have skylights.
    The 2012 IECC requires daylight harvesting or separate switching for daylight zones; complying with new codes is hardly a newsworthy achievement.

    LED lighting for commercial spaces just recently reached a point where lumen output, specifically illuminance at the target work plane, can equal that of fluorescent for the same power input.
    With a cost roughly double that of fluorescent fixtures, LED fixtures' lamp life allows the owner to spend less on maintenance labor, with a payback on the order of 2-10 years. A company as big as Walgreens would be foolish to use anything other than LED unless they expect to go broke before reaching their ROI.

    I like what these guys are doing, but the PR spin is a bit much.

    --
    I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
    1. Re:Lighting Choices Are Not Extraordinary by Dan+East · · Score: 2

      Why did you fixate on only the lighting part of this story? Of course those two things you chose to comment on are widely used. What type of lighting would you think they'd use?

      What about power generation using not one, or two, but three different forms of renewable energy? These walmarts you speak of. Are they generating enough power to be a zero power use facility too?

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    2. Re:Lighting Choices Are Not Extraordinary by TheStonepedo · · Score: 2, Informative

      I picked lighting because it was the most-obvious waste of words in the article for the sake of green spin.

      The "geothermal" mentioned in TFS (who reads articles, really?) is likely a ground source heat pump rather than a subterranean heat source/sink.
      I like the efficiency numbers of such heat pumps, but am concerned about diminishing returns over time in areas with unbalanced heating and cooling seasons.
      Evanston, IL is close to Chicago - 6450 HDD65, 750 CDD65 .
      Assuming the target temperature is 65F (although 70-75 is more realistic in the US) and ignoring heat generation within the space (minimized by using "green" electronics and lighting), the pump could be pulling heat from the ground about 8 times as often as it puts heat into the ground.
      This would tend to cool that ground over time, barring external influences.
      The well field in what should be a heat source will be warmer than the ambient air on cool days at first, then on cold days after a few cycles, then only on the coldest days.
      Once that has happened, they may as well have chosen an air-source heat pump (current models meet their design heat output to around 4F without significant efficiency loss) and foregone the cost of wells.

      "Ultra-high efficiency refrigeration" sounds pretty cool.
      I was under the impression that regulation of refrigerants to minimize ozone depletion (while in turn increasing global warming potential, but that's a different conversation) led to refrigerant cocktails operating at higher pressures so that their cycles would be useful in temperature ranges suitable for cooling food.
      Do they have air-source heat inverters with food coolers as a source and HVAC as a sink?
      I almost want to read TFA...

      --
      I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
    3. Re:Lighting Choices Are Not Extraordinary by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      "This is why Walmart stores built in the past two decades have skylights."

      And lowest bidder programmed light harvesting systems that dont have enough dwell time so they spend more money on partly cloudy days as the fluorescent lights turn on and off every 60-120 seconds. They have systems that are cool, but the companies they hire to install them dont have a competent programmer to set them up right.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Lighting Choices Are Not Extraordinary by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      LED fixtures' lamp life allows the owner to spend less on maintenance labor, with a payback on the order of 2-10 years. A company as big as Walgreens would be foolish to use anything other than LED unless they expect to go broke before reaching their ROI.

      If you don't have significant cost in changing bulbs, LEDs are generally not cheapest. I've seen a few comparisons with LEDs, and they tend to find the result from the company that commissioned them. Every one I've seen favor LEDs does not take cost of capital into account. "If you have the cash to do either and would put it in a 0% account if you didn't spend it" isn't a realistic assumption for a company build. Florescent is often cheapest because the fixtures are so cheap. The main time LEDs are winning out over industrial use is street lights. Why? Because changing a bulb is more than $1000, even if the bulb was free. So the advantage goes to LED, not so much for electricity cost, but bulb life. LEDs have had sufficient lumen output for a long time. The problem is people demand that they be put in like regular bulbs. Getting links of the LED strips and laying them out side by side as dense as you can get them will give you sunlight-level brightness. But that's not how designers, architects, and builders think. They want LED bulbs, which are harder to manage, as you introduce heat and density problems when you ask an array of LEDs to exist in a point-source. The funny thing is they then put those point-sources as high up and spread out as possible to approximate a single illuminated surface. But they can't comprehend a single illuminated surface.

      Pack the ceiling with 50% brightness, and save even more. In the display cases, have strips of light illuminating the product from above. I've already seen LED spot lamps in jewelry cases, but the idea doesn't seem to have taken off. LEDs are more versatile and flexible, but less suited for approximating a close point-source of light, yet that's almost exclusively what they are asked to do. Even when it's to them move that point source as far away from the person, and project light in the opposite direction of the area to be lit, then reflect it down (putting a LED bulb in a ceiling fixture with reflector). If you want them concentrated, put them in the frosted dome-fixtures.

      LEDs suck, but mainly because the people designing them and using them don't use them well.

    5. Re:Lighting Choices Are Not Extraordinary by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      I like the efficiency numbers of such heat pumps, but am concerned about diminishing returns over time in areas with unbalanced heating and cooling seasons.

      You seem to be blithely unaware of the fact that heat flows naturally, and that deep underground is much warmer than shallow. The 'unbalance over time' is a creation of your own mind.

  5. Kilowatts? by jklovanc · · Score: 2

    Engineering estimates suggest that the location will produce 256,000 kilowatts per year while using just 200,000.

    Shouldn't that be kilowatt hours? Even if it was kwhrs the numbers are suspect. 200,000/ 365 days per year / 18 hours (12 hours open 12 hours closed using half power) = 30 Kw used in any given hour the store is open. That is equivalent to 300 100 watt incandescent bulbs. I would think a building would require much more than that.

    1. Re:Kilowatts? by Kufat · · Score: 4, Informative

      You've got it backward, I'm afraid. Watts are a measure of power, while watt-hours are a measure of energy (power times time.) A device that uses one kW of power while operating uses 24 kWh of energy per day of operation

    2. Re:Kilowatts? by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Informative

      A watt is calculated by volts (a measurement of electrical potential) time amps (a measurement of resistance). Notice that there is no time value in that calculation.

      To correct your calculation;
      a 1 kilowatt device used constantly for 24 hours uses 24 kilowatt hours. Notice watts time hours equals watt hours. The kilo is there just to reduce the number of zeros needed. for example a 1 watt device used for one thousand hours uses 1000 watt hours or 1 kilowatt hour.

  6. The secret of self powers store revealed! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Funny

    In a shocking development, the NBC has learned that Walgreens is installing a "cushioning" carpet which is not just any simple cushiony carpet. It has tubes buried in it, and as the shoppers walk on it they squeeze these tubes and the air gets compressed and it turns a turbine that produces electricity. Mr Rube Goldberg, VP Energy Harvesting Division of Walgreens has conceded that the whole idea was his personal invention.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  7. Maybe it says something about the grid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Out of curiosity, I pondered about the quality of service in terms of grid power at that location. So I did a little bit of Google-fu...

    Evanston does make it to the first page on the list of Chicago suburbs with a lot of power outages. (And that's being sorted by total outages.) So maybe it says something about how well ComEd is doing in Evanston? (Or at least that particular neighborhood where that Walgreens is located.)

    Considering that many expensive drugs have to be refrigerated, cash registers go down, etc. I could imagine there would be problems if they had to close up a busy high-volume store during prime hours on a random basis every other week because of unreliable power. In which case there would be much more incentive to go off-grid than "being green".

  8. Re:Bad headline again. by hedwards · · Score: 2

    If you've got a problem with that, perhaps you should be looking at the conservatives that insist upon subsidizing oil, but refuse to subsidize solar, and the numerous free trade agreements that make it hard for US factories to compete with foreign ones.

    Solar is solar, and ultimately any progress made their is a step in the right direction, even if it isn't perfect.

  9. Re:Bad headline again. by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    To a marketer, these people are known as suckers who is eager to part with his money for high margin crap as long as it has the word "Green" on the box.

    Wait, so is China dumping solar panels at below cost, or are solar panels being sold with massive markups? I guess it just depends on which lie fits the situation best. That's the great thing about conflicting lies, when someone spends so much time and effort proving one false, their statements can be taken out of context to help support the other lie.

    The simple fact is, solar generates more power than it takes to make the devices to collect it. It is a net benefit. Nothing has ever disproved that simple statement.

  10. Re:One step at a time plz by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    If you can't solve everything, you shouldn't try to solve anything.

  11. This might be good for business by gstrickler · · Score: 2

    I mean, Wind Turbine Syndrome can make their customers ill while they shop, creating even more business. Of course, health insurance rates might rise. /sarcasm

    --
    make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
  12. Re:Air conditioning? by ChrisSlicks · · Score: 2

    Geothermal systems can be used for cooling as well as heating. Depending on the design capacity of the system a traditional A/C system may not be needed or may only kick in on the hottest days. Also the plan is for net zero, not zero every day.