Google Keep End-of-Life Date Forecasted

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Google Keep End-of-Life Date Forecasted

Posted by Soulskill on Friday March 22, 2013 @07:59AM from the keep-until-this-time dept.

An anonymous reader writes "A smart aleck journalist for UK's Guardian newspaper has turned the tables on Google by compiling data on 39 of the company's terminated projects, summarized in a table and bar graph. The mean lifespan of the doomed products turns out to be almost exactly 4 years, which led Mr. Arthur to conclude that your data would be safe with Google Keep — until March 2017, give or take a few months. Of course, this assumes that Keep is destined to be one of those products and services that wouldn't be Kept, or rather 'didn't gain traction with users' in the familiar lingo of Google marketing."

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Don't scroogle me, brah by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:00 · Score: 0, Funny

Don't get Scroggled!
I don't understand all the anger over Google by i_ate_god · 2013-03-22 08:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yeah, I miss things like Code Search.
Well that's the only thing I used really.
But like, no one had to pay for these services. There was no contractual obligation in play. What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?

--
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
1. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Trepidity · 2013-03-22 08:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  They don't have to. People are just pointing out that Google has a pattern of introducing services as trial balloons, and then discontinuing them a few years later if it doesn't fit into their overalls strategy. If you understand that and are okay with it, no problem. If you'd rather not have to scramble to find a replacement in a few years in the (not that unlikely) circumstance where the service is shut down, however, you might want to look elsewhere.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
2. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:06 · Score: 0
  
  I miss when their web search actually worked properly.
3. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by rokstar · 2013-03-22 08:09 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Conversely there is no obligation to use their services either, which I think is the larger point. Their "responsibility" is to not pissing off a sufficiently large portion of their user base such that they have no interest in trying their new products.
4. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by cultiv8 · 2013-03-22 08:10 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  It would be nice if they open-sourced these projects and then let the "minority of people" who actually use it maintain it themselves.
  
  --
  sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
5. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:10 · Score: 0
  
  They're free to stop it at any point, true, and it's they're decision, true but the thing is, they yank stuff out of under their user's feet without little to warning and totally arbitrarily.
  Use the core services, Search, Gmail Maps and maybe Drive, all you want, but for the rest, tread lightly, because they could be pulled tomorrow. Even terminating Google Translate, which is super useful, wouldn't surprise me at this point.
6. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-22 08:15 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  People are just pointing out that Google has a pattern of introducing services as trial balloons, and then discontinuing them a few years later if it doesn't fit into their overalls strategy.
  There is another term for that: Let a thousand flowers bloom. This is what Google has always done, try things. The things that work, that have an audience that can justify continued operation then they live. The ones that don't fail.
  This is no different than how most companies work. The backlash against Readers closure is silly. Products fail, companies pivot, they aren't required to keep things going in perpetuity.
  And Google lets you get your data out, which so many other failed products don't.
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
7. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by mungtor · 2013-03-22 08:18 · Score: 2
  
  What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  Google's time and money is what it probably comes down to. Somewhere deep in the accounting department they figure out that the quality of data they are mining is not enough to offset the actual cost of running the service. It's true that a larger user base would create a larger data set and therefore be more likely to be profitable for them, but if it's just a different representation of the same data there really isn't any point. They can figure out what we're interested in from Search, what we actually buy from the email receipts in our Gmail boxes, etc. A new service like Keep might give them new information, but if not there's no reason to continue it.
8. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:19 · Score: 0, Interesting
  
  Why did people get angry about New Coke? They didn't have to purchase the product.
9. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by SirGarlon · 2013-03-22 08:21 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  But like, no one had to pay for these services.
  It's not about licensing cost, it's about migration cost.
  
  --
  [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
10. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by sribe · 2013-03-22 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  None whatsoever. Entering into such a deal, where the other party obviously has no obligation to you, is a bad idea--and that's largely the point here, even if obscured by the clever attempts at humor ;-)
11. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by grahamtriggs · 2013-03-22 08:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Oh, I get the point that we are not entitled to use these products, because we aren't paying for them.
  But there are two points, really:
  1) Anger is a way of expressing that people do actually care about the services. If they shut them down with nobody saying anything, then they are right. Conversely, if lots of people kick up a fuss, maybe they see that they are wrong (in thinking that people don't use it).
  2) And this one is particularly pertinent to things like Google Sync/Exchange ActiveSync. Just because users aren't paying for the services, doesn't mean that they wouldn't. If I had the option to simply upgrade my Google Mail to a paid apps account / simply pay to retain the features that they are cutting from the free account, then maybe I would. I would *certainly* pay for a "Google Apps for Home", which kept Google Reader, EAS (upgraded to work with Outlook 2013), etc.
  But they don't offer that option. That I don't pay for these services, isn't my fault in not seeing the value. It is their fault in providing the option.
12. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by afgam28 · 2013-03-22 08:25 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  There was no contractual obligation in play. What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  There's no contractual obligation for users to put on a happy face either. The fact is that it's kinda annoying when a service that you've come to rely on gets shut down.
  Google doesn't have a responsibility to provide free services to everyone but it is in their interest to build trust amongst their user base. Otherwise no one is going to invest any time into things like Google Keep.
13. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:27 · Score: 0
  
  There, Their, They're
  Three different words with three different meanings.
  Go get yourself some that THERE edgeumikation...
14. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by idontgno · 2013-03-22 08:28 · Score: 2
  
  So, your argument is that software is a popularity contest?
  Very perceptive. Market share is just popularity. And the unpopular eventually lose, every time.
  So the object lesson is: if you depend of a software product, make sure you depend on a popular software product. Otherwise, expect to be inconvenienced (or worse) sooner rather than later.
  Potential object lesson 2: don't depend on any one else's software product. That's the point of the Free Software movement. But that requires a degree of technical competence to provide independent support, so that's beyond realistic expectations for the majority.
  
  --
  Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
15. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  I think one realistic reason for the anger is that Google doesn't choose to make these products open source or work with the tech community to migrate to another solution. Instead, they just kill them off. Reader, for example, would have been an easy thing to migrate.
16. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:32 · Score: 0
  
  Funny that you mention google code search. I was doing some open source contract work for a company on a code search project. It was much better than the existing code search sites and better than Google's offering (IMO). Google code came out and the project shut down. Too bad really, since there were some great ideas on the roadmap but we figured Google would improve over time. Competing with Google is difficult and they don't have to worry about meeting payroll.
17. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by drcln · 2013-03-22 08:33 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  There was no contractual obligation in play. What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  It's not hate, its disgust at the stupidity of it all. Google created these ancillary products to draw people into the Googlesphere, and it worked. As someone from Google has said "The lifetime value of a Chrome user is enormous." Google's ancillary projects drew in people and Google prospered.
  In the short term, Google can kill the products that are marginally effective in drawing in new eyeballs, but that sound you hear as they cancel projects that drew people in is the sound of people heading for the exits. That smoke is from the burning of bridges.
  Google's near sighted cancelation of today's well liked projects is erecting barriers to acceptance of its future offereings. Google's real product is people, and Google is polluting its product stream with disapointed people who are tiring of learning to use a tool only to have it taken away. Not a good long term strategy.
  I won't be using Google+, or Google Docs, or or Google Drive, or Keep, or Google's NIK software, or Chrome, and definitely not a Chromebook, since any of these can disapear or be rendered unusable on a whim.
  
  --
  your gravity fails and negativity don't pull you through
18. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by mwvdlee · 2013-03-22 08:39 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  None.
  What reason do people have to give personal information to a company that takes no responsibility over it's products?
  Remember; your time and information is only free if it's worthless. You ARE paying Google with something valuable, just not currency.
  
  --
  Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
19. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by noh8rz10 · 2013-03-22 08:50 · Score: 1
  
  I won't be using Google+, or Google Docs, or or Google Drive, or Keep, or Google's NIK software, or Chrome, and definitely not a Chromebook, since any of these can disapear or be rendered unusable on a whim.
  The last item is most important - unlike most products, the chromebook costs real money. If google throws a switch on their side (in 4 years, or 10 years, or whatever) the chromebook becomes a paperweight. I wonder if when you buy a chromebook if you get some guaranteed period of service?
20. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:55 · Score: 0
  
  You're confusing software with services. Software is not a popularity contest, services are. One of these things you /have/, the other you /use/. It's strange you'd try and equate the two.
  Don't like the idea of a service going away, don't use it. If it's not a utility like power or water, critical for basic survival in the modern age, services come and go all the time.
21. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by skids · 2013-03-22 08:55 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  This deserves a car analogy.
  Suppose a private individual decides to allow drivers to use some of his privately owned land to take a shortcut to avoid a swamp.
  Now suppose there are competing grits delivery companies. Delivery Companes A and B start using the shortcut, and they sell off their SUVs because they no longer have to muck through the swamp. Company C uses the shortcut, but since he cannot trust it to stay there, he holds on to the SUVs. Company C goes out of business because Companies A and B don't need to buy as much gasoline since they do not have SUVs, and they underbid company C for new contracts.
  Then the private individual decides he wants to close the shortcut to build a large statue of Natalie Portman.
  The business of grits delivery being one with tight margins, Company A and B cannot afford to buy SUVs on such short notice. Company A goes bankrupt trying to finance SUVs, and Company B just stops grits delivery to people that live on the other side of the swamp.
  Now nobody on the other side of the swamp has any grits at all. Sure they all saved a few pennies on 4AM deliveries of hot grits in the meantime, but it wasn't worth going cold turkey.
  The moral of the story is that building something useful but ephemeral, especially if the stability of that thing is unpredictable, destabilizes markets by playing on their inherent vulnerability to human greed and shortsightedness. There may be zero legal obligation to ensure the stability of the service, and your standard disclaimers in the EULA that you can end it at any time may protect you from any sort of legal action, but for a company with a "do no evil" motto, marketing, advertising, and then killing such a product tends to produce consequences far from their stated ideal.
  
  --
  Someone had to do it.
22. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:58 · Score: 0
  
  I agree that they are not directly being paid for all the services and products they are bringing to us all the tim. Though, this is no minority we're talking about. I am pretty sure is a big majority actually. And I also agree with "It would be nice if they open-sourced these projects". If they are always standing there "in the name of open source", and actually that's why a lot of google products followers actually follow Google, then why don't they just be real open source? Right now they are showing the world they are not less profit oriented than MS, whom they always fight back.
23. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Reapman · 2013-03-22 09:00 · Score: 2
  
  like Wave?
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave
24. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:01 · Score: 0
  
  "What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?"
  What about the users who spent time and money relying on those services? Google will lose users over this, as users don't want to spend time and money on a service that may not exist in a few years.
25. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by SirGarlon · 2013-03-22 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  Since you don't understand the anger, let me, or rather Charles Schulz, draw you a picture.
  
  --
  [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
26. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by TCPhotography · 2013-03-22 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  The solution on the Chromebook end is to install Linux - and as of now they still have a switch on the laptop (under the battery in my Cr-48) that turns off verified boot, allowing users to install any OS they want (that will run on the hardware - Win7, Chrubuntu, and OSX have been shown working in the wild).
27. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-22 09:04 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No my argument is that nothing is really ever assured. Anything and anyone can fail. Asteroids hit the earth, fires burn down houses, hard drives die, commercial software can fail to find a market, etc etc etc.
  The world of software is littered with the corpses of dead companies and products. It has always been thus. Even free software can end up orphaned and so unmaintained it won't work on modern systems. It is foolish to believe any product will exist forever.
  In the same way you should have a good 3, 2, 1 Backup strategy for your data, you should have a plan for what to do if products you rely on stop working.
  I really don't get your point...
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
28. Re: I don't understand all the anger over Google by PixetaledPikachu · 2013-03-22 09:10 · Score: 2
  
  Well, for free, ad-supported service? Yes. More users means more eyes for their ads
29. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by gl4ss · 2013-03-22 09:12 · Score: 2
  
  people didn't even have a chance to pay for them.
  that's the gist, it seems so random from user point of view.
  people gave flack to gm for cancelling ev1 too. some people liked it, but gm didn't want to bother with it.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
30. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by noh8rz10 · 2013-03-22 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  that's not a real solution though, because if you've been using the chromebook for several years then all of your work and workflow are going to be in the google ecosystem. if they shut that off, then sure you can install linux or whatever, but that's the same thing as getting a new computer. you're stuck at starting from square 1. So the problem of losing your computer still exists, with the benefit of computer recycling / lower up-front costs for a new computer.
31. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:18 · Score: 0
  
  Where "That Work" is defined as is good for us to put ad's or use the information.
32. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Ksevio · 2013-03-22 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  But a lot of them aren't particularly innovative code wise - they're just convenient because Google hosts them. Google Wave had some interesting stuff in it, so they released that, but there are plenty of RSS aggregators out there and it's easy to code a new one.
33. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:20 · Score: 0
  
  Worse, the "minority" that uses these products are usually the geeks and early adopters who are disproportionately important in driving technology trends. Alienating them is hardly a good idea -- how much would it really cost to have a small team just dedicated to minimal maintenance of EOL'd products?
34. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Grizzley9 · 2013-03-22 09:24 · Score: 2
  
  The backlash against Readers closure is silly.
  
  That may be true (I was never a user), but that does not negate the bad PR they are getting from geeks telling normal people about not trusting Google anymore.
35. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-22 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah I am not sure how true that is. If you can show some quantifiable effect, please do. Otherwise I suspect the so called Normal People will just continue to act as they otherwise would. I think we overestimate our influence on them.
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
36. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:27 · Score: 0
  
  Why did people get angry about New Coke? They didn't have to purchase the product.
  Because for a while, original / classic Coke, was not available and replaced by the perceived inferior product.
37. Re: I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  I can understand why they end of life things that are ad supported they cannot monetise, ie Reader, however, they also end of life things that they are selling, such as Postini.
38. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-22 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Yes google earns money though ads. This isn't news. No one is forcing you to use Keep.
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
39. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:40 · Score: 0
  
  There's only one 'e' in edgumakation, moron! :-)
40. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jopsen · 2013-03-22 09:44 · Score: 2
  
  What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  It would be nice if they open-sourced these projects and then let the "minority of people" who actually use it maintain it themselves.
  True, on the other hand some of these projects can't... Because they are based on complicated infrastructure... Google Code search for example...
  Anyways, we have seen Google open source etherpad, when they closed that service...
  
  I also hate it when a service I use is closed (Google Reader for example), but at the end of the I respect Google for innovating and trying out different things, and that includes admitting that something was only a partial success, or not a success at all..
41. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Grizzley9 · 2013-03-22 10:09 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Yeah I am not sure how true that is. If you can show some quantifiable effect, please do. Otherwise I suspect the so called Normal People will just continue to act as they otherwise would. I think we overestimate our influence on them.
  Does it affect common users? Yes as I and others that usually vouch for Google are now cautious. They really should have held off longer between the two announcements and added more features to Keep. I won't be using it and will likely be wary of new services and will look to have alternatives lined out to switch current ones. Basically, I'm not as loyal to Google anymore, and that hurts them in the long run as I'm not alone.
42. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by rts008 · 2013-03-22 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  Doom!.......Catastrophe!.......End of the World!
  Sheesh, back up your data already.
  It doesn't matter if it's Google, or Sixpak Joe's Data Shack, or any other cloud service here.
  If you aren't backing up your stuff, then it all is at risk, and it's your own fault if you lose stuff...no different from a HDD failure in your PC.
  
  --
  Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
43. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Junta · 2013-03-22 10:24 · Score: 2
  
  What people *should* take away from this is that the fad of software as a service carries an extreme risk. Sure, for things highly contingent upon networking effects (e.g. mail), SaS doesn't really change the dynamic. However, for things like RSS reading, document editing, photo editing, and so on and so fourth, with all other things being equal, it's better to pick the offline capable model where you still have capability no matter what the vendor decides to do or if the vendor fails completely.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
44. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by N0Man74 · 2013-03-22 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  that's not a real solution though, because if you've been using the chromebook for several years then all of your work and workflow are going to be in the google ecosystem. if they shut that off, then sure you can install linux or whatever, but that's the same thing as getting a new computer. you're stuck at starting from square 1. So the problem of losing your computer still exists, with the benefit of computer recycling / lower up-front costs for a new computer.
  Exactly! You should never switch switch to a new OS and ecosystem, because it isn't possible to move and convert data from one system to another!
  I've thought about transitioning to a Linux, Mac, or Windows PC, but it was bad enough getting fooled into making the transition from DECB to OS-9 ecosystems on my TRS-80 CoCo 3!
  It's just not worth the hassle.
45. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-22 10:56 · Score: 2
  
  That is a logical argument, not an example of quantified evidence. Show me some evidence that regular users — who either never used Reader or stopped using it some time ago — are more concerned if Google will kill products or services or not; then we can talk.
  But I am not interested in arguing about theoretical measurements of angel's tap shoes...
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
46. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by noh8rz10 · 2013-03-22 11:16 · Score: 1
  
  I sense a note of sarcasm...
  
  seriously, though, I have a stand-alone box (not connected to the internet) in my office running windows XP for a specific application. Neither the application nor the OS will be updated going forward, but I'll be able to run these XP-only processes forever. For chrome, once it's gone, I'm forced to transition. This is a MAJOR difference about chrome that people dont recognize! We talk about not investing in cloud applicaitons, but what about an entire cloud computer!!!
47. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Zorpheus · 2013-03-22 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  Or maybe charge people for these services?
48. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by darkfeline · 2013-03-22 12:20 · Score: 1
  
  There was no contractual obligation in play. What responsibility does Google have to spend time and money on infrastructure on products that are used by the minority of people?
  Perhaps, but there is a key dependency problem. If you introduce a free service which people come to depend on, and if you pulling the service results in costs/damages/lives lost, there is at least a moral obligation, if not a legal obligation, to keep the service running, or at least add a fee instead of discontinuing it directly. Now, of course, Reader and Keep aren't that critical of a service, but if say Google Wallet becomes one of the de-facto methods of payment and Google decides to pull the plug because it isn't in its interests, that impact should be a legal obligation to continue the service or at least hand it off to another party willing to continue it.
  A somewhat contrived analogy would be manufacturing a medicine which keeps people alive from an otherwise fatal, incurable illness, then deciding it's not worth it and discontinuing it. True, people using the medicine haven't lost anything, since they would be dead otherwise, but there is a moral (and should be a legal) obligation not to do so.
49. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by c · 2013-03-22 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  It would be nice if they open-sourced these projects and then let the "minority of people" who actually use it maintain it themselves.
  Easier said than done. A lot of the value isn't in the software as much as the service.
  Google Reader being a good example. A web-based RSS reader as well as mobile versions... The web-based interface is decent, but quite frankly the Android version is weak, not to mention buggy. The main advantage to both as RSS interfaces is that they don't really get in your way.
  The real value of Google Reader is the cloud synchronization service that Reader and a whole host of third-party RSS readers work against. That's the part that allows you to bounce your news feed addiction between multiple devices, platforms, readers and browsers, and most people seem to consider that the most critical aspect. Google could probably open source the whole kit and kaboodle, but running a cloud service as well as Google isn't exactly a casual weekend job.
  Personally, given that I suspect that all their "cloud data" services are going to converge on Drive (i.e. it's not like to disappear), it might be nice to see a Reader replacement using Drive as a back end.
  As for Keep... I'm not particularly worried. Actually, I expect it to go away. Specifically, I expect that it's going to get merged into the Drive core at some point. It's fundamentally just a minimalist Drive viewer.
  
  --
  Log in or piss off.
50. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Belial6 · 2013-03-22 13:18 · Score: 1
  
  Most people won't have to worry about it. If they did, the services wouldn't have been shut down and they wouldn't have to worry about it.
51. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Trepidity · 2013-03-22 13:49 · Score: 1
  
  That particular claim depends on how Google-service users are distributed. It's true that any one service shutdown affects a minority of overall Google users, since they tend to shut down the less popular ones. But what proportion of Google users do 20 service shutdowns affect? It depends on the distribution of users. It could be a small minority, basically the same early adopters who keep signing up for every doomed service. But it could affect a considerably larger number of users in aggregate, if the correlation between the users of those 20 services isn't high.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
52. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by LinuxIsGarbage · 2013-03-22 14:16 · Score: 2
  
  One of the things I liked about Google when it was introduced was they assumed all terms were for Boolean "AND". Then they dropped that, so you had to add a "+" in front of each term. Now you have to put quotes around each term. Not only do they do a Boolean OR, but they will look for synonym ORs of what you searched for, resulting in strange results. At first it was just different tenses or conjugations of the same word, now the searches are just random.
  Plus it will offer suggestions of frequently searched terms... but not actually give useful results for those terms.
53. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by dinfinity · 2013-03-22 14:22 · Score: 2
  
  If you'd rather not have to scramble to find a replacement
  Scramble? Really?
  Please enlighten us which free Google service essential to your life disappeared overnight and how you had to put everything aside for a week to find said replacement and prevent terrible hardships.
54. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 14:29 · Score: 0
  
  The problem is that when Google enters a market, they can quickly destroy it. Then they leave, and we're left with nothing. Let's say Keep takes off. It kills Evernote and other similar competition. Then Google decides it doesn't want Keep anymore and kills it off. Well now we don't have Keep or Evernote, great.
  Think about RSS aggregation sites before Reader. There were lots of similar, competing services, but they couldn't compete on price and/or functionality, so they died off. Now Google exits the market, and there's not much else available.
  Microsoft had embrace, extend, and extinguish, but Google has duplicate, destroy, and depart.
55. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by hairyfish · 2013-03-22 14:41 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  So the object lesson is: if you depend of a software product, make sure you depend on a popular software product. Otherwise, expect to be inconvenienced (or worse) sooner rather than later.
  Which is precisely why people stick with MS. Regardless of what you think of their engineering or business practices, there is a certain amount of security in using the products that everyone else is using.
56. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 15:08 · Score: 0
  
  "This is no different than how most companies work."
  The way most companies work is that they create a shell/child company if they are going to try something new. If it bombs, the parent company doesn't get the bad rep. Products released under the parent company are products the company has a stronger intent on keeping. Products created under a shell company, maybe not. Then they create new shell companies for new products. The parent company gets little attention.
57. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by icebraining · 2013-03-22 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  Try setting Search Tools -> All Results to "Verbatim". It doesn't fix all the issues, but it often helps, in my persona experience.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
58. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by icebraining · 2013-03-22 15:17 · Score: 1
  
  Regarding 1), Google has full access to the Reader accounts. This isn't desktop software, they know full well who and how much people use it. The "fuss" is nothing but a storm in our little bubble of technologists. There's a whole world that uses Google products and doesn't even know Reader exists.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
59. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by icebraining · 2013-03-22 15:30 · Score: 1
  
  In your analogy there's a moral obligation because people would fucking die otherwise. To compare this with using another RSS reader (even if somehow worse) is asinine.
  If I were to run a service, I would probably feel a moral obligation to keep it running, much like I did in the past feel an obligation to keep my open source extensions up to date and available.
  But if some entitled fuck had come and whined that I had that moral obligation, I'd cut him off immediately. There's stuff that may be morally imperative to one own conscience, but that no one else has any right to demand, and this is one of them.
  Don't like it? Get a service with a contract/agreement.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
60. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by DerekLyons · 2013-03-22 15:57 · Score: 1
  
  People are just pointing out that Google has a pattern of introducing services as trial balloons, and then discontinuing them a few years later if it doesn't fit into their overalls strategy.
  Google has a strategy?
61. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by DerekLyons · 2013-03-22 16:00 · Score: 1
  
  LOL - nice analogy and nice callbacks to Slashdot of yore! :)
62. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by TClevenger · 2013-03-22 20:02 · Score: 1
  
  Which is precisely why people stick with MS. Regardless of what you think of their engineering or business practices, there is a certain amount of security in using the products that everyone else is using.
  With a few exceptions.
63. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by MaskedSlacker · 2013-03-22 22:19 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, I get the point that we are not entitled to use these products, because we aren't paying for them.
  Yes, we were. We paid for them with the data Google uses to sell us advertisements. Moreover their shut-down incurs definite migration costs.
  We have every right to complain.
  Of course, Google has every right to ignore us and shut down whatever they want, but the claim that we weren't paying for them so we should shut up about it is moronic.
64. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by AmiMoJo · 2013-03-22 22:35 · Score: 2
  
  You are not obligated but they certainly want you use their service, so it is fair to moan about it.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
65. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by 0ld_d0g · 2013-03-23 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  How is that different from the way any other company should be treated? Should people not point out that their previous such products were canned after X-months ? After all, if Google wants our data, we should be pressuring them to keep their products around for a long period of time. When no such user pressure exists, Google will just keep on launching new products that capture user data for monetizing and when they are unable to do so, they simply shut down their projects without any repercussions. (The repercussion here being negative PR.. )
66. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-23 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  Um Really? Because I have yet to work for a company that does that. The only time companies I have run/or worked at have spun off a new nameplate is when they don't want to dilute their main brand.
  You are going to have to back this claim up with some data...
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
67. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-23 03:22 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, I mean, its like my puppy. I was feeding it and sheltering it FOR FREE. It didnt have to pay me anything. So i stopped. I wasnt under any obligation.
68. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by martijn+hoekstra · 2013-03-23 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  It's not that they have any obligation to continue anything, it is just that people start to avoid google products they may become dependent on, because their services have a good chance of disappearing. I use Google Reader a lot. It sucks that it's going to disappear. Google is in their full right to make it disappear, but it sucks. Now google is introducing Keep. I'm not going to use it, because it might disappear on me, when I have become (sort of) reliant on it. With this policy, google is hurting itself, because people become weary of adopting google products in their daily routine.
69. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by toddestan · 2013-03-23 04:54 · Score: 1
  
  Well, at least those applications aren't cloud services, so even with no support from Microsoft you can still install and use those applications. Sadly, it appears that won't be the case with some of Microsoft's current products.
70. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Keybounce · 2013-03-23 05:07 · Score: 1
  
  Scramble? Really?
  Please enlighten us which free Google service essential to your life disappeared overnight.
  How about a gmail interface that can be used on small screens with large text?
  How about, in general, scrollable html-based interfaces?
  Have you noticed that lots of people -- google included -- now make sections of the browser window fixed, non-scrollable -- even though the very idea of a "movable window onto the larger document underneath" that was behind the scrollable window, the idea that the HTML page was just marked-up text without a fixed format that could be adjusted by the end-user's user agent -- making it harder to use unless your system has as much display space as what they test on at their end?
  What has google tossed out?
  1. Find documents not in any directory. You know: Everything you create goes in the root, not in any folder -- not changable. Anything you've classified or categorized with folders/tags is organized. Anything not so classified got lost. Suddenly, docs went from each to work with to painful.
  2. A choice between page-layout oriented editing and free-form / web-page oriented editing. In fairness, this one was announced.
  3. A mail interface usable on smaller windows. Heck, a mail interface that doesn't assume it has the full screen.
  4. Usability by people who need large fonts.
  5. Usability by people with a low pixel count.
  Google changes the display layout all the time. As they do, with no warning they break things. Some of these I can work-around by using stylish, But that is exactly what an end-user should not have to do! I should not have to try to decipher their web page style to write a new style sheet code for them, that they will break by altering something else next year.
71. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Keybounce · 2013-03-23 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  ...and that includes admitting that something was only a partial success, or not a success at all..
  I'd be happy if they were a little more honest.
  "People don't use feature X, so it is unwanted, and we'll remove it"
  vs
  "People don't use feature X. We've done a bad job with it. Instead of doing a better job, we'll admit our incompetence, and leave it for someone else to do".
  Customized RSS feeds as headline spots in mail? Great.
  Oh, wait, it's a complete PITA to customize, and can't sync with their generic RSS feed sync back-end aka Reader.
  Hey, no one uses it. Is it a hard to use implementation? Naaah, no one wants RSS in the email. Poof!
  Gmail has gone from easy to use to a pain to use.
  Docs has lost lots of features.
  Drive -- and the "sync files on your computer" -- doesn't help, I have to go back to the web interface and adjust every file I upload.
  The whole "the format when a docs file is downloaded versus when you upload a normal format are different" thing is ...
  Drive is a pain/fail.
  Mail has lost features/usability.
  Docs has dropped features without any replacements in sight, and has demonstrated that you can't rely on it.
  So ... no, I won't rely on any new feature from Google.
  Google is the new apple. "Hey, use this for your business. Opps, we're dropping it, good luck."
72. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-23 05:38 · Score: 0
  
  " The only time companies I have run/or worked at have spun off a new nameplate is when they don't want to dilute their main brand."
  same thing. Not diluting their main brand with many discontinued works.
  My initial post was exaggerated but it was a suggestion to consider.
73. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by darkfeline · 2013-03-23 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  In your analogy there's a moral obligation because people would fucking die otherwise. To compare this with using another RSS reader (even if somehow worse) is asinine.
  Can you read, Mr. Asinine? "Now, of course, Reader and Keep aren't that critical of a service" "A somewhat contrived analogy would be"
  
  If I were to run a service, I would probably feel a moral obligation to keep it running, much like I did in the past feel an obligation to keep my open source extensions up to date and available.
  So you agree with me
  
  But if some entitled fuck had come and whined that I had that moral obligation, I'd cut him off immediately.
  So you're a kid who gets angry if someone tells you you should do something. Let me tell you, in society, society expects all sorts of things from you, some reasonable, some unreasonable, and if you're going to get angry every time someone tells you you should do something, you're going to have a lot of problems.
74. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-23 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  You didn't phrase it as an exception, but as a description of standard practice. Avoiding brad dilution and trying to prevent backlash are two very different things.
  Additionally creating a nameplate for every app would have negative implications for you brand as well. You want to people to associate your brand with something, if each app has its own then you get no halo effect.
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
75. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-23 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  While you make some interesting points, you still haven't listed example of anything that disappeared overnight, or that had one scrambling. There are plenty of other feed readers out there, and there is a standard way to get your feeds out and into something else, and they are giving plenty of notice
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
76. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-03-23 09:00 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry I meant suggestion not exception
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
77. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by icebraining · 2013-03-23 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  "Now, of course, Reader and Keep aren't that critical of a service" "A somewhat contrived analogy would be"
  I think it's asinine when applied to Google Wallet as well, and calling it a contrived analogy is an understatement. You're free to disagree.
  
  If I were to run a service, I would probably feel a moral obligation to keep it running, much like I did in the past feel an obligation to keep my open source extensions up to date and available.
  So you agree with me
  No, because you're judging others, while I don't feel I have the right to do that in this case. I would feel a moral obligation to do so, but that doesn't mean I think Google (or anyone else) does.
  
  So you're a kid who gets angry if someone tells you you should do something.
  No, it depends on what, who said it and for what reasons. And I wouldn't really feel angry, but I would feel some schadenfreude after cutting them off.
  
  Let me tell you, in society, society expects all sorts of things from you, some reasonable, some unreasonable, and if you're going to get angry every time someone tells you you should do something, you're going to have a lot of problems.
  Considering I've been criticized for not getting angry enough, I don't think I'll have such a problem. But hey, thanks for the psychological lesson derived from reading 122 words. Unfortunately, I lack such skills and can't assess your personality even though I've already read two full posts.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
78. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by dinfinity · 2013-03-23 17:50 · Score: 1
  
  How about a gmail interface that can be used on small screens with large text?
  You mean the new Gmail look that coexisted with the easily selectable old Gmail look for a year?
  
  Have you noticed that lots of people -- google included -- now make sections of the browser window fixed, non-scrollable
  You mean css position: fixed? Yeah, no website ever used that in the good old days.
  
  1. Find documents not in any directory. You know: Everything you create goes in the root, not in any folder -- not changable. Anything you've classified or categorized with folders/tags is organized. Anything not so classified got lost. Suddenly, docs went from each to work with to painful.
  Bullshit. Also, the service still exists. Are you saying they should never update it in any way? (insert this comment in all answers below)
  
  2. A choice between page-layout oriented editing and free-form / web-page oriented editing. In fairness, this one was announced.
  View -> Print layout.
  
  3. A mail interface usable on smaller windows. Heck, a mail interface that doesn't assume it has the full screen.
  You mean like the myriad of mobile versions that exist? Try http://m.gmail.com/
  Or the basic HTML view? https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=html (admittedly, this one should be more accessible)
  
  4. Usability by people who need large fonts.
  5. Usability by people with a low pixel count.
  These are pretty much the same as 3. We get it, you have a small screen.
  
  Google changes the display layout all the time. As they do, with no warning they break things.
  I have to say that I disagree with 'all the time', but the more important point is that webbased interfaces are inherently auto-update, unless you run them from your servers you manage. I don't know any other supplier of webbased services that announces (big) changes as well as Google. You're free to provide an example of a company that 'does it right'.
  In the mean time, I suggest that you switch to desktop applications instead of web applications. You obviously have issues with the latter.
  
  I should not have to try to decipher their web page style to write a new style sheet code for the way I want the interface to look and function.
  
  FTFY.
79. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by LihTox · 2013-03-24 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  First, Google isn't making any money from Reader but it must have been getting something out of it or else they never would have put it online in the first place. Part of what they're getting is goodwill, so that people will further equate "Google" with "useful product". Now that they're closing Reader, they lose that goodwill. And if we the users make a big enough stink about it, if we make it very expensive for them to shut down Reader, than next time they will have to factor that into their calculation when they consider shutting down a service, and maybe we get to keep something we like. Thus, the whining about Reader online does in fact make sound business sense on the users' part. There's more to the economy than just money.
  Second, Reader is a special case because it has become the de facto standard for RSS reader synchronization; almost all RSS readers in the past few years let you (or force you to) synchronize with Google Reader, so that you can move back and forth from one app to another without forgetting which articles you've already read. By offering Reader for free they were distorting the market (discouraging others from setting up their own synchronization services), and while four months is plenty of time for an individual to find a new RSS reader, it's not a lot of time for a software maker to rewrite their software. I've seen this compared to Microsoft's Embrace, extend, and extinguish strategy. I don't think it was intentional on Google's part in this case—if I understand it correctly they weren't encouraging the use of their API for synchronization purposes—but still, "a giant has to watch where he steps".
80. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Keybounce · 2013-03-24 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  While you make some interesting points, you still haven't listed example of anything that disappeared overnight
  Except I have.
  Most of the time, Google makes changes to their UI and behavior with no notice.
  Google docs went from "I may as well stop using my local machine editor, as this does everything I need, and does "folders" better than unix does", to "Egads, I hate this".
  GMail's interface changes went from "A wonderful email program" to "egads, I hate this".
  Both of these changes were rather instant. Gmail gave you "Click here to go back to the old version" for a short period, but even now you can't do that anymore. And docs ... had no alternative when it made it's change.
  There is a reason that my email signature in Apple's mail.app says, "I hate the new Gmail interface, and dislike Apple's only slightly less".
  ===
  Somewhere along the line, people decided that school drop-outs who were not even in the 95% of normal knew how to design user interfaces. And, others simply copied what these people did. Somewhere, some other people actually did research, and concluded that you needed a new interface paradigm, and even made new controls so that people would know to get new training. And yet, the research was ignored -- and marketers simply copied whatever was new and different, but still similar, without any regard for usability.
  Apple's one-button design for their iPad was probably the first example of "designed usability" I can think of in the last several decades.
81. Re: I don't understand all the anger over Google by spiralx · 2013-03-24 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  Which is fine up until the point where you want to change some part of your system that service relies on - another service's API, your underlying data storage technology, or just migrating from old server equipment. Now there's a whole load of costs incurred in just keeping the service exactly the same, which I doubt the low number of users and ad impressions sold are going to compensate for.
82. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jopsen · 2013-03-24 10:35 · Score: 1
  
  Google is the new apple. "Hey, use this for your business. Opps, we're dropping it, good luck."
  True, that's a significant risk when you build on top of Google services...
  
  I'm toying with the idea of building a drive app. And pros and cons, are clear...
  cons: google could drop support.
  pros: free bandwidth, file storage, user authentication, sharing/permission-management
  
  When using a Google Api like say drive... you take a risk (google could drop/change the api), on the other hand you can a lot of features that would otherwise have to spend time implementing.
  
  The same risk assessment can be applied when choosing to use a Google service, or any service, I also evaluate whether there's a solid business plan behind it, if not I prefer to look for alternatives (preferably paid alternatives (read small appstore like prices)).
83. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by frank_adrian314159 · 2013-03-25 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  Then the private individual decides he wants to close the shortcut to build a large statue of Natalie Portman [followed by tale of destruction of grits delivery infrastructure, due to this decision].
  Although the motives of the private individual are impeccable in this case, this is why we have the legal concept of an easement - to prevent terrible tragedies like this.
  
  --
  That is all.
84. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Branciforte · 2013-03-25 12:21 · Score: 1
  
  A better analogy would be:
  The private individual allows trucks to bypass the swamp by traveling on his road. Business thrives for the grits delivery companies and they keep increasing traffic. Eventually, the burden of maintaining to road to keep up with the traffic becomes too much. The private owner says, "You are all more than welcome to keep using the road, but I'm not paying for its upkeep anymore.
  There's no reason that anyone can't switch to another RSS reader.
85. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Myopic · 2013-03-26 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  Is that what scramble means to you? That isn't what it means to me. I just looked it up in my dictionary and the dictionary has pretty much the definition that I have. To scramble is to hurriedly and haphazardly overcome an obstacle. The obstacle doesn't have to be a 'terrible hardship', in fact to me the word implies a not-so-terrible hardship. Without looking it up in a dictionary, how would you define "scramble"?
86. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Myopic · 2013-03-26 06:29 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with this. The #1 reason I started using Google, lo those many years ago, was because when I search for a word I want that word in 100% of the results returned. To be honest, this is so fucking obvious that I was amazed all search engines at the time didn't work that way. Now, I'm amazed that Google doesn't work that way. I've tried to switch to Duck Duck Go, which is not too bad but their results leave something to be desired. Today, in 2013, the world wide web does not have a very good search engine. We're back to the Clinton era of searching the web, which makes me sad.
  I wish they would offer Google Classic: one search box in the middle of the page, no other bullshit links to "bars" or "social" or whatever, no autocomplete, and every single search term I provide is on every single page they return.
87. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Myopic · 2013-03-26 07:12 · Score: 1
  
  "if you're going to get angry every time someone tells you you should do something, you're going to have a lot of problems."
  In America we have an entire major political party dedicated to exactly that. But you're right, they do cause a lot of problems.
88. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by dinfinity · 2013-03-26 11:13 · Score: 1
  
  Is that what scramble means to you? That isn't what it means to me. I just looked it up in my dictionary and the dictionary has pretty much the definition that I have. To scramble is to hurriedly and haphazardly overcome an obstacle. The obstacle doesn't have to be a 'terrible hardship', in fact to me the word implies a not-so-terrible hardship. Without looking it up in a dictionary, how would you define "scramble"?
  Scrambling (in the only definition that reasonably applies to the GP post) implies is that it is absolutely necessary to hurry. Technically, you are correct and one could scramble for no apparent reason, but well, that is just stupid. Even more so when talking about finding a replacement for a free online service.
  Logically, there should be some reason to hurry in finding the replacement. I will admit that 'terrible hardships' was a bit over the top.
  Not as much as 'scramble', though.
89. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Myopic · 2013-03-27 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, scrambling to me implies some kind of hurry. For instance, hurry up because you only have a few months to find a replacement. That's hurrying but I don't agree with the rest of what you said:
  * essential to your life
  * disappeared overnight
  * put everything aside
  * terrible hardships.
  It's okay I just think you overreacted a little bit. I think 'scramble' was an appropriate word to use.
90. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by dinfinity · 2013-03-27 20:33 · Score: 1
  
  You're kidding me, right?
  In what world is 'a few months' an exceptionally short period to find a replacement for, say, an online email service?
  No, I did not overreact. The person who used the word 'scramble' overreacted. And in a way that is frankly insulting to people who've ever actually had to scramble to do something. As I said: scrambling not only implies hurrying, but doing so in a haphazard/frantic way because there is extreme urgency. It is not a synonym of hurrying.
  "Oh noes, Google Reader went away! Look at me typing and clicking like crazy and knocking over my coffee to find a replacement!"
91. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-29 06:00 · Score: 0
  
  The things that work, that have an audience that can justify continued operation then they live. The ones that don't fail.
  
  The backlash against Readers closure is silly.
  These two sentences contradict each other. Reader is clearly not a failure.
92. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by N0Man74 · 2013-03-29 09:21 · Score: 1
  
  Is that really a Chrome issue, or a Google eco system issue? Or maybe even cloud services in general? Should we not use Google services at all? Isn't any "cloud" services vulnerable to shutting down? At the very least, isn't Google good about giving you sufficient warning to migrate off their service? Have they not also grandfathered in many services so those on them could continue still using them, just unsupported? In other instances, haven't they passed on some of their projects to other groups to allow them to take over?
  I do understand a little of what you mean though, because I feel similarly about digital content purchases. I dislike having media that I've purchased being subject to being lost because a company goes under.
93. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by noh8rz10 · 2013-03-29 10:17 · Score: 1
  
  it's a chrome issue, because chrome (in chromebooks) isn't a service, it's the underlying OS. If you have processes that are designed to work in chrome, then if google shuts down chrome then you're SOL. the hardware is shot unless you want to install linux, which is not going to be any help in getting these processes back. So yes, it's a chrome issue, and yes, it's a big deal. On a related note I have like 25 games on OnLive, and if it shuts down I lose all access. :(
94. Re:I don't understand all the anger over Google by jockm · 2013-04-02 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  Really? Because Google's reason for getting rid of it is that it doesn't have a big enough audience for google. Therefor it failed at google. Other companies are making a go of news readers, but that doesn't mean it was a success for Google.
  
  --
  
  What do you know I wrote a novel
thanks but no thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:02 · Score: 0

I'll stick to Evernote thankyouverymuch
in other words by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:06 · Score: 0

Some guy averages 39 numbers and makes a bar-graph. News at 11:00.
1. Re:in other words by mark-t · 2013-03-22 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed.
  I was reminded of a scene that I saw I don't remember how long ago now, I think it was a Dilbert comic, or something similar... where there was some guy's presentation that was totally boring everybody, until he mentions that he has a graph, and then when pulls out a large form cardstock sheet with a colored pie graph and bar chart from his folder and puts it on the easel where he is doing his presentation, he suddenly has the undivided attention of everyone in the room, as they say "oooooooooh" in unison, evidently being completely wowed by the novelty of it.
  I wish I could remember where I saw that though... it might have even been a cartoon or comedy on TV.
  Anyways... when I saw the words "summarized in a table and a bar graph", it made me think of that.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Do no Evil? Right... by pubwvj · 2013-03-22 08:07 · Score: 1, Troll

I don't trust cloud apps and the like. Google is a prime example of why we should not use these.
1. Re:Do no Evil? Right... by Nemyst · 2013-03-22 08:17 · Score: 2
  
  Wait, discontinuing cloud apps is now evil? Damn, I knew English was a "living language", but I hadn't quite caught on about this one.
2. Re:Do no Evil? Right... by pubwvj · 2013-03-23 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  The "Evil" was reference to Google's old saying of "Do No Evil". Sorry if you're too young to remember. It was over a decade ago. Perhaps that was before you were born. Old history. Just ignore it. Rinse and repeat.
4 years conditional on being terminated by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:10 · Score: 1

It's not really fair to condition on having been terminated before now.
It would make more sense to calculate the median length over all projects, including ones still running (or say projects started more than 6 years ago).
That's the downside of using the Internet like by Burz · 2013-03-22 08:12 · Score: 3, Interesting

....a set of mainframe services. Re-brand it as 'cloud' all you want-- Over the long term, its not the best fit.
Its better to have locally-running apps that give you a choice of data storage points (especially local and private VPN).
1. Re:That's the downside of using the Internet like by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:20 · Score: 0
  
  Amen. For a lot of these things, the only benefit of being online is offsite backup. Desktop applications should be written to perform offsite backup conveniently, with minimal fuss to the user. The ability to switch offsite backup providers should be user-friendly also.
  The other benefit of being online is a bit more tricky though. That's the "share it with others at a stable URL" function . Traditionally you had to get a domain, etc; blah, blah. That cost money. Now there are many companies providing the "share it with others" function for free; but they ask for advertising and data-mining in return. The "stable URL" aspect is what makes this a difficult problem. If your offsite backup goes down, you can solve that problem by copying onsite files to a new provider. You can't copy the URL. URNs are supposed to solve this problem; but nobody is really using them. A virtually no-cost stable URL that redirected to URNs hosted on potentially unstable locations solves this problem...
  Anyway, there are alot of companies in Si Valley that should be 10-page RFCs, not $10 billion companies. Sooner or later, the unwashed masses might figure that out, if the marketing department doesn't continue to succeed in drowning out intelligence.
2. Re:That's the downside of using the Internet like by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 14:34 · Score: 0
  
  You know when 1 Gbps fiber arrives in every home, business in America (in 30-50 years), cloud services might become even more popular. Just put a datacenter in every city for low latency and you run your software from the cloud with 125+ MBps throughout and SSD latency. Good enough to run office and business apps. It would be a great way to combat piracy.
  Not that I like this, but network connectivity is considered a given and I fear this is the future of computers. Outsourcing is cheaper.
Seriously, nothing to see here. by Frosty+Piss · 2013-03-22 08:17 · Score: 1

The mean lifespan of the doomed products turns out to be almost exactly 4 years
And that's just it: The MEAN.
If you look at the graph, there is a slight flat spot there, but really, over all, it's a pretty constent slope all the way up.
Seriously, nothing to see here.

--
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
downside of SaaS by crgrace · 2013-03-22 08:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

This really is a big negative of Software as a Service. When you own something, you can run it forever, even if the developer decides to stop using it.
I have some simulation software for electrical design that was last updated in 1998. Still works fine and gets the job done. If it were on the cloud I'd be out of luck and forced to continually move my data between paid services. Too bad.
1. Re:downside of SaaS by SpaceCadetTrav · 2013-03-22 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  When you own something, you can run it forever, even if the developer decides to stop using it.
  In theory, yes you can keep using unsupported software. The reality is that most companies would ultimately be better off if they were forced to drop it sooner rather than later. It hurts to rip off that bandaid, but it's usually worth it.
  
  --
  Life in Orange County
2. Re:downside of SaaS by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  Why?
  We in softwareland like to think that. However, in businessland they see it as a sunk fixed cost (not a recurring fee that comes out of a different budget). It works dont mess with it. What is the cost of just putting it into a VM vs hiring another firm to re-write the custom app (again)? Or worse a recurring monthly cost that someone has to cut a check for every month (and they cut you off if you dont pay on time and idle 10 workers). Oh... you dont have those numbers, just a feel good 'band-aid' analogy. Sure it is a pain for you. But guess what? You got hired for it... You can not answer the questions with 'it costs X to keep maintaining it' vs 'it costs Y to rewrite/cloud it' you will get slaughtered in a proposal meeting. Rightfully so too.
  Sometimes it is better/cheaper just to keep using the sunk cost item. Sure its old, creaky, ugly, and a pain to use. But it gets the job done. Sometimes it is better to toss it out. Until you analyze it you can not say 'most companies would ultimately be better off'.
  Sorry to be harsh but in businessland they talk money. Not feel good 'its better trust me'. That is for the sales guys.
The Guardian's forecasting methodology by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:17 · Score: 0

doesn't require a Ph.D in mathematics, statistics, or computer science to understand, but may be at least as accurate as many of the projections presented in Mountain View conference rooms.
If you aren't paying for the service... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:19 · Score: 0

If you aren't the one paying for the service then you are not the customer - you are the product.
1. Re:If you aren't paying for the service... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 09:03 · Score: 0
  
  I don't pay your mom. Burn!!!
Re: your sig by OneAhead · 2013-03-22 08:21 · Score: 1

I don't get your sig. Almost all the public domain works on the kindle are for free (2005 out of 2073 to be precise). It's not that they will get rich charging for this one. Or is the way you phrased it some kind of American pop culture reference?
Self-fulfilling prophecy, anyone? by OneAhead · 2013-03-22 08:23 · Score: 0

(n/t)
And this is listed as funny? by BabaChazz · 2013-03-22 08:25 · Score: 1

Why?
In all seriousness, despite the weakness of the statistics (33 points does not make a universe, particularly with such widely scattered data), this is simply a codification of the reluctance many feel about trusting vital data to Google. It's interesting to note how many projects Google has shuttered, and the lengths of time they were live. I do appreciate the fact that the author has provided his raw data so that we can draw our own conclusions.
1. Re:And this is listed as funny? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  To get more data points, we need to wait x more years for Google to kill x more products.
companies discontinue software by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:29 · Score: 0

APPLE:
Shake
Color
LiveType
Cinema Tools
Soundtrack Pro
DVD Studio Pro
Final Cut Server
MICROSOFT:
Microsoft Plus!
Microsoft Money
Microsoft Music Central
Microsoft FrontPage
Microsoft Works
Creative Writer
LAN Manager....and so on.
1. Re:companies discontinue software by BLToday · 2013-03-22 08:37 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You can still keep using the old software and your data. In Google's case, once the service is gone so is your data. Think of it this way, Honda discontinues the RSX they don't go and blow up all the RSX they've sold. The time, data and energy you put into an online service is your investment and when it's discontinued you lose that investment.
2. Re:companies discontinue software by gl4ss · 2013-03-22 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  you could still use frontpage to create sites.. if you wanted. you can still use your works package from 2001. there's no mandatory activation, no shit like that. you could even use them on your windows 8 installation.
  (not so with older apple sw though, you'd need to have an old apple too).
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
3. Re:companies discontinue software by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 18:46 · Score: 0
  
  No. It's not.
  http://www.dataliberation.org/
4. Re:companies discontinue software by toddestan · 2013-03-23 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  A proper car analogy would be GM's EV1. They didn't sell them, only leased them out, and when GM decided to discontinue the project they took the cars back (despite protests from many of the "owners") and crushed them.
5. Re:companies discontinue software by Branciforte · 2013-03-25 12:28 · Score: 1
  
  No, once the service is gone, your data is fine. In the case of Reader, you can export your data. In the case of Google Notebook, all your data was still there in Docs. Same thing with Keep.
  So, I don't see why the above comment was rated 'Insightful'. It seems completely ignorant of the fact that Google makes great efforts to ensure that you can always get your data out of the cloud.
Clarification by OneAhead · 2013-03-22 08:32 · Score: 1

I mean, other than the obvious reference to the first sentence of the work, which doesn't strike me as particularly funny.
Google abbreviated by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:34 · Score: 0

Don't be evil to just d'evil
Except Your Data Will Still Be Safe... by dr4g0nnn · 2013-03-22 08:35 · Score: 2

Keep uses Google Drive, so your data isn't going anywhere.
1. Re:Except Your Data Will Still Be Safe... by gl4ss · 2013-03-22 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  well technically drive would be shut down a while before it, on average.
  I predict a re-branding of it within 5 years anyways.
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
2. Re:Except Your Data Will Still Be Safe... by interion · 2013-03-22 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  Keep uses Google Drive, so your data isn't going anywhere.
  When Google Notebook shutdown in 2011, all of the data was automatically exported to Google Docs, which was later replaced by Google Drive in 2012. So now all of my notes are stored in Google Drive, but that isn't doing me any good because Keep wont read them. If Keep eventually shuts down, sure the data might survive, but will anything be able to use it?
3. Re:Except Your Data Will Still Be Safe... by IANAAC · 2013-03-22 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  So now all of my notes are stored in Google Drive, but that isn't doing me any good because Keep wont read them. If Keep eventually shuts down, sure the data might survive, but will anything be able to use it?
  Does search in GDrive not work for you? If it's searchable (and already stored in GDrive), your data is still usable.
  For me, search within GDrive is the main reason to use it (well, and archival). It's faster than my desktop search.
It happens by stewsters · 2013-03-22 08:40 · Score: 1

It sucks to have a service you use canceled, but if any of those cancelled services were being done by independent people rather than Google, they would have gone bankrupt from making no profit before those 4 years were up. Google just got your hopes up and kept them up longer than others.
Therefore, if you want Google Keep to survive... by Joshua+Fan · 2013-03-22 08:41 · Score: 1

use it. The more people who do, the better its chances.
One thing after another by Carnivore24 · 2013-03-22 08:41 · Score: 1

I hope they don't cancel Google Search. I use that hidden gem all the time! This is getting crazy!!
iGoogle by Frontier+Owner · 2013-03-22 08:42 · Score: 1

I must not use google services enough. I use their mail, calendars and iGoogle. I really like igoogle because in a glance, I see the headlines, here, drudge, and various news sources, also see how my stocks have moved.Sure most of that can be replaced with windows gadgets, but with igoogle, Its accessible from anywhere I log in. My computer, my phone, my tablet.
1. Re:iGoogle by misterooga · 2013-03-22 08:59 · Score: 2
  
  I don't think Google Reader that that much notice though. 4 months notice: http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2013/03/a-second-spring-of-cleaning.html
headlines write themselves! by noh8rz10 · 2013-03-22 08:46 · Score: 5, Funny

I'm going to forecast the headlines:

"Google doesn't keep Google Keep"

"What's keeping Google from keeping Google Keep?"

"Keep on keeping: Google keeps Google Keep (for now)"
1. Re:headlines write themselves! by DragonTHC · 2013-03-22 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  love the language.
  But seriously, the submitter is a moron who had a slow news day.
  Keep is tied directly to docs and drive. So, your data isn't going anywhere.
  and nothing of value was lost.
  
  --
  They're using their grammar skills there.
2. Re:headlines write themselves! by Junta · 2013-03-22 10:26 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Even docs and drive aren't guaranteed. That's the whole thing with hosting services, they could disappear and there would be nothing you can do about it. So anything on cloud storage provider better be backed up by you, and applications to manage the content should either be free or you should have a persistent license and ability to run not tied to the continued whims and welfare of the vendor.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
3. Re:headlines write themselves! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 10:51 · Score: 0
  
  Your points are all valid. However in the case of Keep - Keep is a pretty strong word as the classic use case for this is a shopping list, a note saying "remember to clean the barbecue", etc. Nothing that matters if it is gone - and nothing that needs attention for more than a few days. (The rest of drive is certainly different).
4. Re:headlines write themselves! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-23 01:59 · Score: 0
  
  Toyota could disappear, too. However, we can safely assume they will still make cars for many many years to come. They are a car company.
  Google is an ad company. You can count on them to keep making ads.
  Counting on Google for other services is folly, but not because they are bad people, it's just part of life.
5. Re:headlines write themselves! by DragonTHC · 2013-03-23 03:08 · Score: 1
  
  I pay google for the storage they provide.
  My data is safe. They are obligated by law to provide me notice if they're gonna shut down.
  
  --
  They're using their grammar skills there.
6. Re:headlines write themselves! by Junta · 2013-03-23 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  If I have a Toyota car and Toyota decides to get out of the business or collapses, my car doesn't vanish.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
7. Re:headlines write themselves! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-24 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  You never did The Kenosha Kid?
cloud future by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:46 · Score: 0

everything is on track to becoming a cloud app. If there is a foreseeable end, we can't it over the horizon yet.
iGoogle by GigG · 2013-03-22 08:48 · Score: 1

The started having a banner that iGoogle was going to be turned on in November of 2013 in mid 2011. There is no reason to think they would shut down something like Google Keep without at least that much warning.

--
Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
Keep Sticky Notes? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 08:58 · Score: 1

Four years? I may keep sticky notes for about four hours. Sometimes four minutes.
The data I put here will have a very short relevance. I may love the app in 2017 (TBD), but I won't miss my 2013 sticky notes. If there are people out there hoarding their sticky colored squares, I'd hate to see their desks, or refrigerators.
Although this app uses Google's cloudy back-end, its more for device sync and uniform presentation across services (aka screens) than a personal (eternal) archive. There are better options for data you care about, and I don't mean Evernote.
P.S. I won't be an anonymous coward for long :)
Are they Trending this? by interval1066 · 2013-03-22 09:06 · Score: 2

I wonder why google trends isn't predicting the end of these various Google services?

--
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Fucked by a cloud by HalAtWork · 2013-03-22 09:19 · Score: 2

Exactly, look how many companies still run some DOS program in a CMD box on Windows. They're doing so because it's more worth it to them than to develop some new solution. The solution they already had still works. If it were cloud-based then they'd be stuck paying bills that they really don't need to. The cloud is always going to fuck over the people who depend on it.

--
Twinstiq, game news
Struck a Nerve by Grizzley9 · 2013-03-22 09:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

Google seems to have reached the tipping point when they cancelled Reader. Now, their main base of loyal geeks are starting to question them, in print no less. This is not a good sign for Google. They are taking a much larger PR hit than just losing some respect from a few Reader users. Granted many of those services likely did need to be cut, or not even started, but it seems they've now pushed enough to where geeks are starting to push back and relaying that mistrust to their non-geek friends.
1. Re:Struck a Nerve by snadrus · 2013-03-22 10:19 · Score: 1
  
  Breaking-down the obvious:
  - Laymen could get Reader's benefit
  - Geeks saw a product that only told Google that some RSS source interested them.
  - Those geeks like Google's open-source policy & assumed to unprofitable would become open-sourced.
  - Reader wasn't open-source, tarnishing this image.
  - A simple open-source promise could save them a lot of hassle.
  Unless perhaps Google wants to give free cloud services a black-eye?
  It certainly made me consider installing my own jsPerf instance.
  
  --
  Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
2. Re:Struck a Nerve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 10:43 · Score: 0
  
  Charles Arthur is a flaming apple fanboy though. Any chance he gets (rightly or wrongly) he has a go at them.
3. Re:Struck a Nerve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 12:01 · Score: 0
  
  I only started using Reader in anger because Google recommended it as the fallback for the soon to be defunct iGoogle.
On the plus side... by Mr.+White · 2013-03-22 09:24 · Score: 2

Google+ launched on June 28, 2011.
They will stop trying to shove it down our throats on estimated June 28, 2015.
We are half way there.

--
witold.org
1. Re:On the plus side... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 10:00 · Score: 0
  
  Pun intended?
2. Re:On the plus side... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 18:30 · Score: 0
  
  On a whim, I checked my + page. The sad thing for Google is that there was 1 new post in the last year. Yeesh.
  I'd actually prefer to use + instead of Facebook, but they even fail in their choices of the many posts they show me from people I don't know. I mean, I read slashdot so I'll read random stuff of dubious value, but it has to be at least somewhat interesting to me. Instead they show me stupid quotes and other crap I couldn't give two shits about.
Irony by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 10:01 · Score: 0

I predict there will be jokes about the ironically named "Keep" in 4 years time.
no correlation. by wisnoskij · 2013-03-22 10:32 · Score: 1

The graph clearly shows that there is no correlation to 4 years. it shows a wide, fairly even, range. Where a few months is as likely as 10 years.
4 years is the average, nothing more.

--
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Google is doing us a service by xs650 · 2013-03-22 12:10 · Score: 2

Google is doing us a service by reminding us that online services, data storage, etc come and go. Don't rely on any one company if a service or your data is important to you.
Reality bites and it's good to have an occasional nip like this latest one from Google to remind us of that.
He's not being a "smart aleck" ... by tlambert · 2013-03-22 18:16 · Score: 1

He's not being a "smart aleck" ... ... he's doing analytics.
Derpgle by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-22 22:55 · Score: 0

I am reading this in Google Reader.
Keep doing things like this by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-23 01:27 · Score: 0

I've already closed gmail for a yandex email account. It's not the same but...
Google: Open source Reader already by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-23 02:04 · Score: 0

If they are going to close the service, they could be nice and try to open source it so that others can continue with it
Absolutely not true by localroger · 2013-03-23 02:30 · Score: 1

Corporations tend to be very conservative about making changes to critical infrastructure, on the theory of "don't fix it if it ain't broke." They don't like unscheduled forced expenditures and down time. I can personally think of at least a dozen DOS and Windows 98 machines that are in service today. This may come as a shock, but there are actually computers out there which aren't on the internet, so security vulnerabilities and upgrades aren't an issue. And the last thing a company that has something wants is a replacement that *requires* an internet connection.

--
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
The economics of Google's free stuff by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-23 06:34 · Score: 0

Very interesting item by Paul Krugman on the economics of Google's services (like Reader):
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/23/the-economics-of-evil-google/
In a business with high fixed costs, it's possible that there is no price at which a service can generate enough revenue to make money. Add network effects (the value of the service is proportional to the number of people who use it), and the situation is even more interesting.
In some cases, the only solution is for the service to become a public utility.
Market failure through unquantifed risk by Paul+Fernhout · 2013-03-29 12:27 · Score: 1

Great analogy as an example of "market failure" due in part to "unquantified risk" (and to a lesser extent de-facto monpoly by market position).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure
"Market failures are often associated with information asymmetries, non-competitive markets, principal-agent problems, externalities, or public goods. The existence of a market failure is often used as a justification for government intervention in a particular market."
From another domain, but a related example of greed and short-sightedness:
"Regulating Real But Unquantified Risk [with antibiotics given in animal feed]"
http://www.riskworld.com/abstract/2002/SRAam02/ab02aa311.htm

--
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.