The Leap Motion Controller is Sort of Like a Super Kinect (Video)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:15 · Score: -1

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

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Looks promising. by P-niiice · 2013-03-27 06:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Seems like a huge missed opportunity for Microsoft.

Re:Looks promising. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2013-03-27 06:30 · Score: 5, Funny

It could explain why all the people one the Microsoft Surface commercials look like they're having grand mal seizures.
Re:Looks promising. by Grizzley9 · 2013-03-27 07:16 · Score: 1

How do you have something like the Kinect and not have patents all over something related that basically would prevent this, or at least cause it to have to license numerous patents? Missed opportunity indeed.

Also, am I the only one that thought this was from the kids' toy mfg Leapfrog?
Re:Looks promising. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:45 · Score: 0

Kinect itself was a huge missed opportunity.
Every time the devs had done anything remotely good with it, the features always get axed because... god knows why, the damn thing already costs a lot of money anyway, those extra features aren't going to put the price through the roof, the research was already done!
Microsoft destroyed what Kinect could have become.
And likely are killing what the next main iteration of it will be. (in fact, I think they already have done recently, didn't they just remove the ability for it to detect intricate hand gestures?)
Re:Looks promising. by Electricity+Likes+Me · 2013-03-27 08:37 · Score: 1

Wait they did? Seriously?
Because the first thing - the very first thing I try to do with the kinect everytime is use a closed fist or rotating hand action to try and control something, and then get frustrated when I can't.
Re:Looks promising. by bloodhawk · 2013-03-27 08:47 · Score: 1

kinnect was a huge success sales wise and the next version "looks" like they could be ready to continue that. Yes the games were crap for it on the 360 but most of that should improve on the next xbox. Really I think the leap is very much like kinnect V1, way to many limitations in the product for it to be more than a gimmic on this first iteration. Where as kinnect was limited in accuracy, leap is extremely limited in range making these really too different focus markets.
Re:Looks promising. by jharriman · 2013-03-27 09:13 · Score: 1

I'm going with the DUO for a couple of reasons. LEAP has been at this for how long now, and they still don't really have a product widely available; the DUO guys seem to be ready to go *today*. And while LEAK doesn't have any plans to produce an open source driver so that I can use this device and do my own processing of the data, the DUO guys say their driver will be open source. Indeed, their hardware will be licensed under Creative Commons. I voted with my wallet - DUO
Re:Looks promising. by Bobfrankly1 · 2013-03-27 09:27 · Score: 1

Wait they did? Seriously?
Because the first thing - the very first thing I try to do with the kinect everytime is use a closed fist or rotating hand action to try and control something, and then get frustrated when I can't.
We've all been there dude. =D
Re:Looks promising. by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 11:39 · Score: 4, Informative

"How do you have something like the Kinect and not have patents all over something related that basically would prevent this, or at least cause it to have to license numerous patents? Missed opportunity indeed."
I am in the Leap developer program and I have one. But I am not an expert on the Kinect. From what I understand, the Kinect uses cameras and visible light to do passive motion detection. The Leap works very differently. It uses active infrared signals and a pair of infrared detectors to do its magic. Unlike the Kinect, its active area is limited to just above the desktop. But also unlike Kinect, they claim precision down to a few microns. I haven't tried to measure the accuracy of mine, but it's pretty darned accurate.

Also, using the SDK, you can (A) detect all 10 fingers, (B) the position of each finger, (C) the direction each finger is pointing, (D) the position and orientation of the palm, and (E) the relative curvature of the palm (e.g., the diameter of an imaginary ball in your hand).

It's pretty impressive. The question is how well it will be integrated into software. Like any "alternative" controller, implementation in an individual application might be sad or might be great. There is no way to tell in advance, and I am sure we will see some of each.
Re:Looks promising. by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 11:43 · Score: 1

"I'm going with the DUO for a couple of reasons. LEAP has been at this for how long now, and they still don't really have a product widely available; the DUO guys seem to be ready to go *today*. And while LEAK doesn't have any plans to produce an open source driver so that I can use this device and do my own processing of the data, the DUO guys say their driver will be open source. Indeed, their hardware will be licensed under Creative Commons."
The LEAP and the DUO are two completely different kinds of devices. You are comparing apples and oranges.
Re:Looks promising. by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 12:07 · Score: 1

Pardon me. I hadn't seen the one you were referring to. I thought you meant the DUO game controller, which is a completely different animal.

I hadn't heard about the DUO before. I'm checking it out.
Re:Looks promising. by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 12:40 · Score: 3, Informative

I've checked it out some on their website. What you say is far from true.

The DUO guys aren't "ready to go *today*" at all! They're still in early development! They are WAY behind the LEAP.

This is what I learned from their website:

(A) They haven't decided (or announced) the degree to which it will be open source. They said so in a forum on their own website. So that part is still very much up in the air.

(B) DUO just finished building their development prototype. LEAP has had actual development units out for months. They have gone through 4 physical revisions, and many firmware revisions. Many developers have been actively developing for the LEAP for that same period. I happen to know because (disclaimer) I happen to be one of them. Nevertheless, I am not terribly biased toward the LEAP. I am simply reporting the facts as I see them.

(C) The LEAP looks pretty nice and it is small. The DUO looks about 3 or 4 times as big, has cameras awkwardly sticking out of it, and looks cheap. Yet for some reason getting on the bandwagon even during the development stage costs almost 2 times the retail price of a LEAP? Say what?

(D) While they make claims of high accuracy and low latency, I don't see any numbers anywhere. I'll believe that when I see it.

All in all, at this stage of the game, the LEAP has a hell of a lot going for it that the DUO lacks. Maybe it will be better in the long run. Maybe it will be open source. But neither of those things is anywhere near certain yet.
Re:Looks promising. by michaelbuddy · 2013-03-27 17:55 · Score: 1

If I was drawing in the air with a pencil or something, how does it know when I'm drawing or not? is there an engage button we can assign to keyboard key?

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...::----::...
I am in no way affiliated with this sig.
Re:Looks promising. by Dr+Max · 2013-03-27 19:07 · Score: 1

Come to /. home of the really fresh and current tech news (that may have been around for over 6 months).

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Rocket Surgeon.
Re:Looks promising. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 19:10 · Score: 0

maybe they arn't evil talentless hacks that just steal everybody elses ideas and patent them. wait this is microsoft they eat babies.
Re:Looks promising. by Dr+Max · 2013-03-27 19:12 · Score: 1

it's a 2 foot cube of work space so it's just set to draw once you pass a certain distance in the z direction.

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Rocket Surgeon.
Re:Looks promising. by avxo · 2013-03-27 19:14 · Score: 1

All they need is the funding to get the first of devices built - devices they plan on shipping as soon as they can assemble them. Look at the Kickstarter. Something tells me that the DUO will be more widely available before the LEAP, despite the "headstart" that LEAP has - they've been at this for how long now and all they have to show is a pretty webpage and a press onslaught in response to a Kickstarter project.
You can argue that the price of the DUO is high, but the DUO guys aren't funded by venture capitalists and are trying to put out an open solution with Creative Commons licensed components and drivers for Linux. The LEAP guys got a few million and spent a ton of money designing a fancy enclosure and have been limiting who can access the SDK. Perpahsp you like that sort of thing - fancy enclosures and limited access. But working hardware, that I can tweak is more important to me.
They aren't just making claims - a simpe look through their videos demostrates that the device has ridiculously low latency - check out this Youtube Video recorded at 240 frames per second and see how accurately the tracking is. As for hard numbers, I'm curious exactly what numbers you're looking for? What units would such accuracy numbers be reported in? I tried a LEAP first hand, and it doesn't seem nearly as fast or as precise.
Re:Looks promising. by Dr+Max · 2013-03-27 19:23 · Score: 1

The kinect is attacking the problem from a slightly different direction, which does mean less accuracy in the beginning but it'll pay off in the end. What the story fails to mention (on this 6 month old story) is the leap only works in a 2 foot cube above the device, and the tech used means it's quite difficult to expand that bubble (although you can link multiple leaps together it still needs to be beanth you and it only works 2 foot high). What the kinect did was develop a system to compute the whole room then they will work on increasing accuracy with v2 and beyond (potentially meaning a much more versatile product).

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Rocket Surgeon.
Re:Looks promising. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 19:23 · Score: 0

... From what I understand, the Kinect uses cameras and visible light to do passive motion detection. ...
The Kinect is both:
- passive, when using visible light to get a "normal" image, and
- active, when using an active infrared signal to get a depth image.
Cf:
- this video (among many others) to see what the infrared signal looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvvQJxgykcU
- this discussion to know how it works (and how it does not work):
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/3852/how-does-the-kinect-device-work
Re:Looks promising. by Dr+Max · 2013-03-27 19:45 · Score: 1

yeah but the leap only works in a 2 foot cube above the device, the duo should be able to do whole rooms without breaking a sweat.

--
Rocket Surgeon.
Re:Looks promising. by Electricity+Likes+Me · 2013-03-28 03:18 · Score: 1

I did realize I was walking right into that one :)
Re:Looks promising. by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-30 06:37 · Score: 1

"Something tells me that the DUO will be more widely available before the LEAP, despite the "headstart" that LEAP has - they've been at this for how long now and all they have to show is a pretty webpage and a press onslaught in response to a Kickstarter project."
But this was my point. The DUO does not even have devices in developer hands yet. LEAP has had them out for I think close to a year now. And they are not just "prototypes". They are beta versions of the commercial product.

Sorry, but it's just wrong. LEAP is WAY ahead of the DUO. The DUO folks still have to go through all the things that LEAP has already done, before the DUO will be a production product. I see absolutely nothing indicating otherwise.

240 frames per second is not "ridiculously low" latency. Try thousands, and you are starting to get into LEAP range.

Again, I know because I have seen it. I have a
production-ready
LEAP right here not 2 feet away from me.

LEAP has published specs. Their precision is down to single-digit microns. They are getting thousands of frames per second versus 240. The numbers are there. Whether it "seems" that way to you or not.

I like that keyboards require deliberate action. by concealment · 2013-03-27 06:18 · Score: 3, Interesting

While I'm all for new and exciting technology, I'm not sure I like having cameras around that can be hacked, and visual interfaces that may record motions I make that I do not intend to go into a computer.

The simplest example would be idly picking my nose, and then coming back later to find those exciting strokes recorded. For those of you who are pornography enthusiasts, a similar problem exists.

Although keyboards are arguably pretty bad, they don't interpret my actions for me. I have to deliberately seek out the keyboard and type on it. It can't watch me or misinterpret me.

Now my only enemy is my own tendency toward tyops and speeling errors.

Perfect for a sith Star Wars game by CQDX · 2013-03-27 06:23 · Score: 2

"I find you lack of faith disturbing..."

omg by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:25 · Score: -1

It's painful to hear this guy talk. Don't clench your teeth while talking!

Re:omg by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:23 · Score: -1

It's painful to hear this guy talk. Don't clench your teeth while talking!
So, what you are saying is don't clench your teeth. So what I'm not going to do is clench. So, I'm going to start every sentence with so. So. So. So.
Re:omg by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 15:56 · Score: 0

I'm pretty sure that guy is drunk or super hung over. He looks and sounds it.

I would probably buy one, by bobstreo · 2013-03-27 06:27 · Score: 3, Interesting

Except I don't see Android or Linux on the list of things they run on

Would be quite nice for tablet, phone or android stick attached to giant TV.

>>The Leap Motion Controller will change the way you work without changing what already works for you. So it doesn’t replace your keyboard, mouse, stylus, or trackpad. It works with them, and without special adapters. Just plug it into the USB on your Mac or PC, and you’re off.

Re:I would probably buy one, by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:58 · Score: 1

I'm more interested in those other controllers he mentioned, like the "V" and the "Connect" - where can I find out more about those?
Re:I would probably buy one, by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:01 · Score: -1

Last time I checked their forums, the company was hostile to the idea of using their hardware with Linux. ("intellectual property" concerns)
Re:I would probably buy one, by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Check the Linux category in the forum.
There seems to be a ground swell for Linux support. Be heard.
Re:I would probably buy one, by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthread.php?17-Linux-SDK-relase-extimate/page5
"I just wanted to drop in and give you a little update. Earlier [yesterday], we released our first early build of the Linux SDK to developers on the developer portal. We will be working closely with devs to help make the Linux SDK as robust as possible, and we're looking forward to the feedback"
Re:I would probably buy one, by avxo · 2013-03-27 07:31 · Score: 1

Even if they do have Linux support, will it be open, or will it still more proprietary stuff? And haven't we heard this tune before anyways? An upstart (in this case, the duo) appears, and all of a sudden these guys that have been sitting pretty with their thumb out of view somewhere make a lot of noise about "hundreds of thousands of preorders"... yeah, well... preorders are fine and dandy, but when do we see the product? Those other guys seem to have everything ready to go and I'm going to vote with my dollars on kickstarter.
Re:I would probably buy one, by avxo · 2013-03-27 07:37 · Score: 1

It their driver open source, or is it going to be more binary blobs ala nvidia for me to link into my kernel?
Re:I would probably buy one, by Misagon · 2013-03-27 08:28 · Score: 1

From what I have understood from reading Leap' employees posts in the Linux subforum, a large amount of input processing is done in drivers on the host which will therefore have to stay proprietary.

--
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Re:I would probably buy one, by unrtst · 2013-03-27 11:13 · Score: 1

From what I have understood from reading Leap' employees posts in the Linux subforum, a large amount of input processing is done in drivers on the host which will therefore have to stay proprietary.
Almost right, up until the "...processing is done in drivers", which is imprecise. It's done in software. There is no reason the drivers couldn't be open.
And then, also wrong at "have to stay proprietary". Should read, "...is done in software on the host which they are likely to keep as proprietary."
It may seem like a moot point, but there's a significant difference there, especially since many of the algorithms can already be commonly found in OpenCV and similar areas. They *could* just make good hardware and sell it. In addition, there is absolutely no reason why the DRIVER needs to remain closed source, ESPECIALLY since all the fancy bits are in their software (which is separate from the driver).
It's a cool little device, but it's essentially just two cameras, 3 IR LEDs that flash at various intervals, and it streams the camera frames back over USB. The driver does stuff to set the LED's going and trigger it to send video and such. The software takes the result and does the magic. I'd love it if that were open too, but it's the only bit they have any reason to keep closed (IMO).
Re:I would probably buy one, by avxo · 2013-03-27 11:27 · Score: 1

Right... so why not support the DUO instead, which is a solution that promises to be open, so you can take the hardware and the driver and modify them and then playing with OpenCV? And by the way, since you mentioned OpenCV: from the looks of it, the guys behind the DUO seem to have a long history of contributing to that project too - have the guys behind LEAP done the same?
Re:I would probably buy one, by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 11:53 · Score: 1

"... ESPECIALLY since all the fancy bits are in their software..."
Not really. An awful lot of processing is done in hardware and firmware. There is no way software could handle the load of data otherwise.

Even so, interpreting that data is processor intensive. But it's up to developers to make that data interface with their own software.

There are already open-source libraries available to programmers, in some languages, for that latter step. But they do still rely on the low-level "driver" if you want to call it that.
Re:I would probably buy one, by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 12:26 · Score: 2

"Right... so why not support the DUO instead... ?"
While I know quite a bit about the LEAP, information seems pretty scarce about the DUO. Also, I would not be too sure about the Open Source bit. This is from the OS X forum on their website:

"Thanks for your API feedback. The vision pipeline is not Objective-C, and in answer to your question about source library or precompiled/headers, the degree to which the software will be open source is unannounced yet. However, your thoughts about the SDK are extremely valuable and the team is listening, keep the comments coming!"
So... they haven't even decided how much, if any, of it will be open source yet. Further, they are nowhere as far along in the development cycle as the LEAP is. Yes, the fact that LEAP was in development was announced quite a while ago. But they did not announce a projected shipping date until recently. What's wrong with that? How many years was the Kinect in development?

More questions about the DUO to which I did not find ready answers:

They mention "highly accurate" and "low latency"... but nowhere do they say HOW accurate, or what the latency actually is. (The latter figure of course depends on some variables, but they could give us a baseline.)

I saw a demo with 5 fingers, but not 10. Can it track 10? I don't know. I know that the LEAP can.

The DUO looks about 3 or 4 times as large as a LEAP, it looks cheaply made, it is still in early development, they seem to be holding the actual specs pretty close to their chests, yet it costs nearly twice as much as a LEAP? WTF?

My impression: they're pretty strong on innuendo, pretty short on details, and they have a long way to go yet. All in all, I'll go for now with a product that I know is professionally done and that I know works as advertised (because I have a development unit).
Re:I would probably buy one, by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 13:39 · Score: 0

It's USB powered so there's eventually going to be a driver for it. in b4 XKCD reference
Re:I would probably buy one, by unrtst · 2013-03-27 13:40 · Score: 1

"... ESPECIALLY since all the fancy bits are in their software..."
Not really. An awful lot of processing is done in hardware and firmware. There is no way software could handle the load of data otherwise.
Here's two comments from leapmotion forums from the Co-Founder & CTO:
https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthread.php?1091-Started-Linux-Hacking-Effort&p=7032&viewfull=1#post7032
https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthread.php?1091-Started-Linux-Hacking-Effort&p=6968&viewfull=1#post6968
"Just to clear up a tiny bit of mystery. The device does not output any form of depth-map or point cloud over USB. There is no processor on the device."
and
"The developer units do not have firmware with plug-and-play legacy features right now."
The latter was in regards to comments that it may behave as a basic multitouch HID device when no leap drivers are loaded (ie. could be used on an OS without proprietary drivers)... meaning that was not true, at least not in the units that are out there now.
The former says there's no processor in the device, so it's not doing much. Granted, it's doing *something*, but it's not doing a whole bunch of image processing.
Re:I would probably buy one, by unrtst · 2013-03-27 14:00 · Score: 1

Right... so why not support the DUO instead...
FWIW, I haven't supported either yet (neither financially nor investing time in them, other than talking about them).
That said, the little I can glean about the DUO makes it sound much less polished, and I haven't seen any guarentee of the drivers being open source (though, it appears the hardware is, or will be, open hardware, and they certainly seem more involved in open source projects).
One thing that seems quite different about the two, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is the use of strobing IR's on the LEAP ("stobing" may not be the most accurate description, but there are three IR LED's, and the alternate being on at different times, so it appears to be a technique that may be what is helping them acheve their accuracy). Meanwhile, the DUO kickstarter page says if you pledge $70 or more, you'll get the "DUO COMPONENTS KIT", which includes a case, electronics, SDK, and instructions on building the sensor... and all you need is two PS3 Eye cameras. In other words, it's using two PS3 Eye cameras, which is already a significant difference (no light filter to restrict to IR, no IR leds, etc). In addition, those things are about $22 a pop, plus the $70 for the kit, plus you have to build it yourself, or you could get a LEAP for $70.
Don't get me wrong... when the DUO ships, if it works ok, has good linux support, and doesn't cost more than twice what the LEAP goes for, I'll support them. And if the leap lacks good linux support, they won't get my money at all. I actually want one for one of it's most basic features - just a floating touch area in front of my screen. Touchscreens are actually more expensive than either of these things, and these don't involve fingerprints on the screen... but I really don't *need* a touchscreen either, so I can easily live without them. There's some other things I'd like to use one for, but they're just goofing around type things, and probably wouldn't get used much in that manor in the long run (like the 3d part of my 3d projector - doesn't get used much, but it's fun once in a great while).
Re:I would probably buy one, by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 15:19 · Score: 1

"Here's two comments from leapmotion forums from the Co-Founder & CTO:"
But those two comments do not say what you appear to think they're saying.

"Just to clear up a tiny bit of mystery. The device does not output any form of depth-map or point cloud over USB. There is no processor on the device."
It does not have to have a processor onboard in order to do a lot of the heavy lifting. There are all kinds of ways to process data without a "processor" per se. It could be a custom IC, or a PLA, or any number of other kinds of electronics going on in there.

But more to the point: the comment was about whether it outputs a point cloud. So what? It does output a hell of a lot of data, it just isn't in the form of a point cloud. (Which makes sense, as a 3D point cloud of that size and resolution would massively overwhelm even a speedy new machine with quad cores, not to mention the USB interface.) And that brings us right back to the context of the comment: it doesn't output a point cloud. So it HAS TO be doing something with the data onboard, even if it's only to reduce the volume of data to a manageable level.

"The developer units do not have firmware with plug-and-play legacy features right now."
They may not have "plugh-and-play legacy features", but they *DO* have firmware. I know because I've updated mine, and it's due for another update. Which very strongly implies that there is data manipulation of some kind going on in the device itself. (As I pointed out above, in fact that isn't even optional. It MUST be manipulating the data in order to even operate within the limits of USB. And even if that were not logically so, I know it is so because before the last firmware update it was overwhelming my USB.)
Re:I would probably buy one, by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 21:42 · Score: 0

It shows up on the computer as a generic USB webcam, so there are no proprietary drivers.
Re:I would probably buy one, by unrtst · 2013-04-05 10:00 · Score: 1

As I pointed out above, in fact that isn't even optional. It MUST be manipulating the data in order to even operate within the limits of USB.
Can you put this to rest yet? Here...
https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthread.php?1091-Started-Linux-Hacking-Effort&p=9208&viewfull=1#post9208
https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthread.php?1091-Started-Linux-Hacking-Effort&p=9210&viewfull=1#post9210
https://forums.leapmotion.com/showthread.php?1091-Started-Linux-Hacking-Effort&p=9284&viewfull=1#post9284
First link explains how a capture was done (which was fairly simple).
The second link has frames captured from the device.
The third has a graphic to clear up how the frames are interlaced.
In short, it outputs pixel interlaced 640x480 frames (every other byte of image data goes to left then right frame; grab 1280 bytes, and you have one row of image from each left and right camera after minor post processing).
Your left with the frames from both cameras, and the magic happens on the PC in software (and/or drivers, depending on where you draw the line for what constitutes a driver).
Back to the point, there's no reason not to open source the driver - the little bit that talks to the device and gets data back. Looks like that part is going to be fairly easy to do anyway, so open drivers will likely show up soon after official release.

Learn the TRUTH... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:28 · Score: -1

Mainly in efficiency - it runs in Ring 0/RPL 0/PnP Kernelmode (on Windows), as merely a filter for the IP stack (no overheads of more driver layers OR browser level slower less efficient addons):

21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option

http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/12/2213233/adblock-plus-to-offer-acceptable-ads-option )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions (in-addr.arpa) via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operat

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:29 · Score: 1

This.

Because once attached to your computer, it can never be removed, disabled, or turned off.

Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch by jacksonic · 2013-03-27 06:29 · Score: 2

This turns any computer into a touchscreen. It should have come built in to all windows 8 keyboards: the metro tiles would finally make sense.

Re:Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch by peon_a-z,A-Z,0-9$_+! · 2013-03-27 06:33 · Score: 1

Exactly my thoughts. I use m 46" TV as my primary monitor for most gaming and run Windows 8 (Windows 8 is not bad, there are just a lot of complainers out there, or maybe I'm just old enough to be that negative towards new things yet). I pre-ordered this just for the reason you pointed out - can't wait for my 46" living room touchscreen that I don't actually have to "touch."
Re:Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:43 · Score: 0

In the video it looked like the device had to sit on the table in front of the monitor if vertical. That would seem to dramatically limit the options for a big screen (think front projection). From the demo I'd call it more of a mini-kinect or hand-kinect than a "super kinect." A neat toy, but not nearly as amazing as the hype would seem to indicate. Using gesture control on the existing Kinect can get a little frustrating as is. Then again I haven't seen one of these in person or dug through all the technical details.
Re:Exactly what Windows 8 needed at launch by Misagon · 2013-03-27 08:30 · Score: 1

It is not exactly like a touch screen. There is no way to detect touch -- you can only wave your hands in front of the screen.
Also, because there is no eye-hand-coordination in the system, there will have to be proxy objects (like mouse pointers) on the screen for your finger tips.

--
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley

Did you guys try it? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:32 · Score: 1

I was highly unimpressed with the demo at SXSW and I've heard mixed reviews from people that got into the dev program.
It seems to be sunlight sensitive and it likes to randomly drop elements that it is tracking, maybe just a driver issue and I'm sure it could improve, but at the moment I'm not impressed.

Re:Did you guys try it? by ArcadeMan · 2013-03-27 07:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

I stopped reading after "SXSW"...

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Re:Did you guys try it? by jharriman · 2013-03-27 09:17 · Score: 2

I tried it at SXSW and it seemed fickle. To me it seems to be one of those devices that work when the planets align just right. And since their architecture is proprietary, I won't be able to modify things myself to try and improve the detection (or use it in other, cool ways). That's why personally, the DUO is a lot more appealing and I contributed to the DUO kickstarter.
Re:Did you guys try it? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 12:52 · Score: 0

If it's sunlight sensitive then it's using IR. All IR systems have this issue and can get interference from any other IR source: cameras, TV remotes, LEDs, projectors, etc...

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by i+kan+reed · 2013-03-27 06:32 · Score: 2

Virtually every laptop sold in the country has a built-in camera. What's the distinction of this?

You've attempted to impersonate me... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:33 · Score: -1

Nearly 150++ times that I know of @ this point for all of March 2013 so far, & others here have told you to stop - take the hint, lunatic (leave slashdot)...

Sorry folks - but whoever the nutjob is that's attempting to impersonate me, & upset the rest of you as well, has SERIOUS mental issues, no questions asked! I must've gotten the better of him + seriously "gotten his goat" in doing so in a technical debate & his "geek angst" @ losing to me has him doing the:

---

A.) $10,000 challenges, ala (where the imposter actually TRACKED + LISTED the # of times he's done this no less, & where I get the 150 or so times I noted above) -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585795&cid=43285307

&/or

B.) Reposting OLD + possibly altered models - like this one I am replying to (this I haven't checked on as to altering the veracity of the info. being changed) of posts of mine from the past here

---

(Albeit massively repeatedly thru all threads on /. this March 2013 nearly in its entirety thusfar).

* Personally, I'm surprised the moderation staff here hasn't just "blocked out" his network range yet honestly!

(They know it's NOT the same as my own as well, especially after THIS post of mine, which they CAN see the IP range I am coming out of to compare with the ac spamming troll doing the above...).

APK

P.S.=> Again/Stressing it: NO guys - it is NOT me doing it, as I wouldn't waste that much time on such trivial b.s. like a kid might...

Plus, I only post where hosts file usage is on topic or appropriate for a solution & certainly NOT IN EVERY POST ON SLASHDOT (like the nutcase trying to "impersonate me" is doing for nearly all of March now, & 140++ times that I know of @ least)... apk

Re:You've attempted to impersonate me... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:36 · Score: -1

Who are you and why are you posting this shit to slashdot?
Re:You've attempted to impersonate me... apk by ironicsky · 2013-03-27 08:10 · Score: 1

its a spam bot, best I can tell - its been posting it as first post to almost every article I've read on /. the last couple of days.
Hopefully the fine folks over at /. or Dice get around to blocking it sooner than later

Between this and Win 8 I need to reinvest by paiute · 2013-03-27 06:43 · Score: 2

I'm pulling my money out of foolish things like municipal bonds and buying stock in companies which make rotator cuff treatments and therapies because that is apparently going to be a huge growth area soon.

--
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine

Re:Between this and Win 8 I need to reinvest by P-niiice · 2013-03-27 06:57 · Score: 1

Doctor: what's wrong with you?
Patient: it hurts to defragment.
Re:Between this and Win 8 I need to reinvest by joh · 2013-03-27 08:42 · Score: 1

I'm pulling my money out of foolish things like municipal bonds and buying stock in companies which make rotator cuff treatments and therapies because that is apparently going to be a huge growth area soon.
Yeah, because doing things with your arms and hands that require more motion than moving a mouse around on a desk just isn't natural... or what?
Re:Between this and Win 8 I need to reinvest by moogaloonie · 2013-03-28 07:37 · Score: 1

I'm pulling my money out of foolish things like municipal bonds and buying stock in companies which make rotator cuff treatments and therapies because that is apparently going to be a huge growth area soon.
Yeah, because doing things with your arms and hands that require more motion than moving a mouse around on a desk just isn't natural... or what?
It's not about the motion, it's about not resting any part of your arm for extended periods of time. I mouse with my palm and/or elbow resting on a surface.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:48 · Score: 0

Speed and accuracy without crushing your cpu. Also, the FOV isn't static w/ respect to your monitor.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by i+kan+reed · 2013-03-27 06:49 · Score: 1

With respect to watching you without your permission due to unspecified hax.

Tekwar by houbou · 2013-03-27 06:54 · Score: 1

Remember that show.. well, the tech which it was made of, is slowly, but surely coming to reality..

Nose picking porn by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 06:56 · Score: 1

If I could idly pick my nose I wouldn't need to be a pornography enthusiast.

DUO by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:08 · Score: 0

I saw the demo at SXSW and wasn't all that impressed. A demo I have been impressed by, however, is the DUO, which is currently on Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/codelabs/duo-the-worlds-first-diy-3d-sensor) looking for $100,000 to bring their open solution to market. If nothing else, those guys will give LEAP some competition - and that's always a good thing. That they're planning to have Linux support is a huge plus.

Re:DUO by avxo · 2013-03-27 07:12 · Score: 1

The DUO is pretty sleek and seems to have extremely high accuracy while tracking. Disclosure: I contributed to their kickstarter.
Re:DUO by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:42 · Score: 0

For those interested in alternative DIY 3D motion controller called DUO you can head over to http://kck.st/16fhTgk

desired application by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:10 · Score: 1

Aslan translator

Re:desired application by SuiteSisterMary · 2013-03-27 07:56 · Score: 1

I thought that, despite being a lion, Aslan spoke perfectly good English?

--
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.

Pew-pew gaming by m2shariy · 2013-03-27 07:21 · Score: 2

So now we can play first-person shooters by pointing a finger an yelling "Pew-pew-pew"?

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by vux984 · 2013-03-27 07:41 · Score: 2

Virtually every laptop sold in the country has a built-in camera. What's the distinction of this?

It's not normally on. As soon as you make the camera an always on input method, then well.. its always on.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:46 · Score: 0

But the leap doesnt contain a camera

Porn Industry by shdowhawk · 2013-03-27 07:49 · Score: 1

Imagine how amazing this would be for the porn industry. They could target ad's to you so much easier based on your ... ummm ... big or small hand gestures?

Re:Porn Industry by Wescotte · 2013-03-27 08:25 · Score: 1

Clippy 2.0? So it looks like you're masturbating....

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by i+kan+reed · 2013-03-27 07:56 · Score: 1

Fair enough, I can't really deny that. But the default behavior is not to record, so it still requires external intervention to spy, which is exactly what is requisite for current technology. The only discernible difference is a little green LED.

Why hide this? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 07:56 · Score: 0

Why wouldn't they consider it part of the mainline SDK? There are a lot of engineers and developers working on Linux.

Unfair comparison by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 08:09 · Score: 0

It is yet not possible to truly compare both systems. The Kinect has a range of several meters and produces a colored pointcloud. The Leap has a range of less than a meter and currently only returns the position of the fingertips. Full Body tracking is therefore not possible with a single Leap.

You can also say that the Kinect is a Super-Leap motion since the sensing range is much larger and the Kinect is able to capture several persons and not only the fingers of a single one.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by vux984 · 2013-03-27 08:18 · Score: 1

The only discernible difference is a little green LED.

That little green LED tells me whether or not I'm potentially being recorded. If its on, and I'm not in a video call, something is wrong and I'm very suspicious.

With an always on camera trained on you, an LED would be meaningless -- if it existed it's always on. So you will never know if you are being recorded or not.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Dins · 2013-03-27 08:24 · Score: 1

Call me paranoid, but I just put a small piece of black electrical tape over the camera. Can't really even see it against my black laptop, and I KNOW the camera isn't recording me.

linux support is planned by Chirs · 2013-03-27 08:31 · Score: 1

It's supposedly being worked on, check out their forums.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Electricity+Likes+Me · 2013-03-27 08:40 · Score: 2

Yeah, it would be terrible if videos of you picking your nose went up on the internet. As opposed to your bank account passwords, credit card details, actual pornography habits and home address and real name - because if someone can hack the camera its far easier to just log keystrokes and take a screen grab of your desktop every minute.

Talk about identifying the wrong the problem.

can you replace the keyboard with this? by peter303 · 2013-03-27 08:42 · Score: 1

It seems like you dont have to click keys anymore. You just "air type" and have an app convert it to keys.

Musical keyboards too.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by i+kan+reed · 2013-03-27 08:46 · Score: 1

Yes, that's actually somewhat consistent with paranoid personality disorder. But there's more than one symptom to that, and it would be insanity to diagnose a stranger on the internet from 2 sentences.

Audio Production by GoogleShill · 2013-03-27 09:00 · Score: 1

Am I the only one that couldn't handle listening to the audio in that clip? One guy is speaking into my left ear and the other guy into my right. It's like I'm standing between them staring off orthogonally, but the video has me looking right at the interviewee. Makes my head spin.

Do us a favor and mix it down to mono.

Their Developer Support is Lame by miroku000 · 2013-03-27 09:04 · Score: 1

I would have been happy to buy a device and possibly develop for it, but they have really horrible developer support. They don't let you even download the SDK! Apparently 40,000 people applied to the developer program, but they are only giving access to people that they have decided to give free devices. Their actual end-user device is shipping soon, but we can't even download the SDK? WTF??? It is cheap and I would be happy to buy one. But, without an SDK it is pretty worthless to me...

Re:Their Developer Support is Lame by avxo · 2013-03-27 19:01 · Score: 1

Amen to that. That's why I'm excited about the DUO. Even at $110 it's a great deal if you look at the specs of the hardware, the capabilities it has and what their software does according to the video highlights (their tracking of a hand through a 180 degree turn is very impressive). I don't get why LEAP is restricting their SDK and limiting who can be a developer and what people can use the device for.
I'll say it before and I'll say it again, if we as members of a community that values open-source projects (whether it be open hardware or open software) want to have more open source projects then we should back the projects we have now. That's why I contributed to the DUO and that's why I think you should too, on Kickstarter.

Not if MSFT/Windows supports it by schlachter · 2013-03-27 09:33 · Score: 1

If OEMs start incorporating it into their PCs and MSFT/Windows supports it...I'm sure Windows will be fine.

--
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Dins · 2013-03-27 09:40 · Score: 2

Right. But it's far quicker and easier to address the camera issue with a small piece of tape that will solve the problem (or lack thereof, granted) permanently in less than a minute than it is to satisfactorily address the other issues you mention.

Jeeze people, lighten up...

Clever idea, but not a good idea by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 10:04 · Score: 0

Leap motion tracks finger-tips when the user is nice enough to make this easy for the device. Relative accuracy in optimal circumstances can clearly be better than one might expect. Absolute accuracy is poor, so its no replacement for touch-screens.

Worse, the LM needs massive amounts of CPU processing to do the motion tracking.

All this means that as a general purpose input device, the LM is utterly useless. The designers understood this problem, which is why they gave away so many development models, in the desperate hope that they could 'crowd source' some new killer apps for the device.

Take a simple consideration. How do you tell LM your input has stated? You can't- not reliably. How do you tell it input has stopped? Again, you can't. The device allows for no 'punctuation'. With a mouse, the buttons provide the 'punctuation' or state changes. With a touch tablet, punctuation occurs because finger detection happens over a VERY thin 2D plane.

In comparison, 3D motion tracking devices do not allow sane methods for the user to distinguish between 'motion' and 'punctuation'. Idiots that will respond with 'gestures' are too stupid to realise that gestures are the very worst way to try to inform the input device that you wish to signal 'puntuation' (state change). At best, a 'gesture' (like wiggling a finger) might be recognised some of the time, if the point at which the motion input stops can be relatively fuzzy.

I'm sorry, but such input devices have been with us since the 60s (albeit in a much bigger form) and no-one has found a way to overcome the 'punctuation' problem. The 'ten' point detection is also pointless, given that most humans would have trouble usefully inputting more than two controlled points with their fingers (given that the cameras that 'see' the fingers point only upward, and thus cannot handle 'over-lapping' fingers at all well).

LM thus falls back to use as a gaming peripheral, where accuracy of input isn't important- like the Kinect. Unfortunately, LM is insanely expensive as a gaming 'controller'- it really needs to be $30. It is really the equivalent of a 'light gun' or 'power glove'. However, this form of gaming is almost exclusive found on the consoles, not the PC. So even worse, LM becomes (if very very lucky) that cool sounding gizmo that loads of people buy, mess with for a day or so, then stick in a drawer never to be thought about again- like those hardware text-to-speech modules from TI all those years ago.

Re:Clever idea, but not a good idea by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 16:30 · Score: 0

Since I have one and am programming a 2D touch plane in mid air that I use all ten fingertip points on. stfu and gtfo. You dont know what you are talking about, or lack imagination. Put yourself in the old drawer next to the speech module. ....for the times... they are a change....ing' -dylan.
Stick with your buggy whip and typwriter.

How About Learning A Little Before Piping Up? by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-27 11:47 · Score: 3, Informative

"While I'm all for new and exciting technology, I'm not sure I like having cameras around that can be hacked, and visual interfaces that may record motions I make that I do not intend to go into a computer."

The LEAP does not take pictures. It does not even contain a camera.

While it works kind of like a Kinect (in that they both use light), the similarity pretty much stops there.

Jeremiah Cornelius: YOU disappoint me... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 11:47 · Score: 0

You're "caught red-handed" Jeremiah Cornelius -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581857&cid=43276741

I wrote ALL ABOUT IT (& why you're doing it), here -> http://interviews.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585927&cid=43295193

* DO YOURSELF, and the rest of us, A GIANT FAVOR MAN:

Seek professional psychiatric help!

(Since you obviously can't get over the fact you made a spelling error on what it is YOU ALLEGEDLY DID FOR A LIVING? That's not MY fault... it's YOURS!)

APK

P.S.=> I seriously must have dusted JC (in his mind @ least) for his BAD spelling error & it "got his goat"...

I.E.-> Catching what he claimed to do as a job, for YEARS he left "PENETRATION" spelled as "PENTRATION" on his resume on LinkedIn & I pointed it out as he & his friends trolled me as usual (webmistressrachel, gmhowell, & crew (probably ALL JC no doubt using alterate emails or TOR to do it as a possible - I've caught "them & theirs" doing it before, ala Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person))).

So THAT is what has gotten his goat in a technical debate & his "geek angst" could only come up with *trying* to "impersonate me" in every news thread on /. for the month of March 2013 so far!

(Just to attempt to 'discredit me' as a spammer here obviously)

Doing so, by posting that 10,000 challenge &/or reposts of my old posts on hosts file value to end users into EVERY SINGLE NEWS ARTICLE POSTED on /. ...

It's all I can think of that *might* cause such a mentally trouble 'reaction' like the Jeremiah Cornelius is doing!

... apk

Getting better with the post production, BUT by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 13:03 · Score: 0

Can we not have each speaker panned all the way to one side of the audio channels? It drives me nearly crazy. Thanks.

Fingers and chopsticks... by BlackPignouf · 2013-03-27 13:10 · Score: 1

Fingers and chopsticks that "go where no device has gone before.".
No, thank you :D

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 15:53 · Score: 0

Never actually used one, eh? The camera built into my laptop most certainly can be turned off or completely disabled. It also has a little LED next to it that lights when it's active, so it's easy to know when it's on.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Dr+Max · 2013-03-27 19:51 · Score: 1

Well then, you should get a leap motion because it doesn't use any cameras, and the data it generate from use would be almost useless (like trying to use a person's typing speed against them).

--
Rocket Surgeon.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by Dr+Max · 2013-03-27 19:59 · Score: 1

OH NO, the guys at leap motion know can figure out what hand size the owner has. Don't worry that google reads all your emails and tracks web page vists, your phone with GPS and camera is taken with you everywhere, and facebook knows more about you than your mother.

--
Rocket Surgeon.

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Winning! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-27 23:31 · Score: 0

And we thought we'd seen the last of Charlie Sheen.

You missed this part by concealment · 2013-03-28 02:44 · Score: 1

and visual interfaces that may record motions I make that I do not intend to go into a computer.

I then go on to talk about visual gestures and how I don't want those recorded.

You seem to have mis-read the original message. I would apologize, but after having re-read it, I don't think it's unclear. I often read things hastily as well, and that can lead to this kind of misunderstanding.

Re:You missed this part by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-30 05:34 · Score: 1

Your very first sentence mentions cameras. And "recorded" gestures don't mean much without a picture to go with them.
Re:You missed this part by Jane+Q.+Public · 2013-03-30 06:30 · Score: 1

But I did not intend to criticize. I'm just saying that was probably the source of misunderstanding.

Hardware is controlled by software by concealment · 2013-03-28 02:46 · Score: 1

The camera built into my laptop most certainly can be turned off or completely disabled. It also has a little LED next to it that lights when it's active, so it's easy to know when it's on.

Actually, this can be circumvented, and as this case shows us, it has been done before.

Re:I like that keyboards require deliberate action by dAzED1 · 2013-03-29 03:53 · Score: 1

hey now, if everyone were able to identify the actual risks involved with their everyday processes, I'd be out of a consulting job. Don't go trying to encourage people to make sane risk assessments! Not for a couple more years yet, at least - my goal of retiring on a beach in the Caribbean is too close!

Slashdot Mirror

The Leap Motion Controller is Sort of Like a Super Kinect (Video)

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