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A Sea Story: the Wreck of the Replica HMS Bounty

An anonymous reader writes "On October 25, 2012, as residents of the U.S. east coast made frantic preparations for the arrival of Hurricane Sandy, the captain of the HMS Bounty (a replica tall ship constructed fifty years earlier for the Marlon Brando film Mutiny on the Bounty) made a foolish decision, with the assent of his crew, to proceed with a scheduled voyage from New London, CT for St. Petersburg FL. CNN's Thom Patterson has written a long story with the benefit of survivor testimony to the NTSB and U.S. Coast Guard. Captain Robin Walbridge thought he could outrun the hurricane, and besides, he'd 'sailed into hurricanes before.' The crew (officially there were no passengers, a fact that allowed the ship to evade certain safety regulations) consisted of tall ship enthusiasts with widely varying amounts of nautical experience, perhaps taken by the vast historical literature on the great age of sailing. A day and a half into the voyage, Captain Walbridge altered his plan of sailing east of the storm, to sailing south and west of it. A day later, the Bounty was less than 200 miles from the eye of the storm; the engine room started to flood, and the pumps were jammed with debris being torn off by the storm's 70 mph winds. The end came early next day, the Bounty was knocked down by a huge wave, tossing the captain and several crew members overboard. The Coast Guard rescued fourteen of the crew members, but Claudene Christian (an adventure-loving novice who had enlisted as crew a few months before) was dead, and Captain Walbridge's body has not been found."

36 of 184 comments (clear)

  1. Remember: by jodido · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nature bats last

  2. a tragedy all around by onyxruby · · Score: 3, Informative

    The ship was originally built as a movie prop, cool to look at but lacking substance. It had decades of trouble as a result since it was of dubious seaworthiness for a very long time. The ship never should have been allowed to skirt maritime law the way it did.

    The captain meant well, but his ship wasn't the measure of the dreams that sailed it. The Coast Guard needs to examine how this tragedy was ever allowed to persist for so long and change the law to make sure it never happens again. The loophole that allowed this ship to sail needs closed and the other such ships need safely regulated to museum duty.

    1. Re:a tragedy all around by russotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It was sailed for 50 years and only sunk because Capt Dumbass sailed it into a hurricane. Pretty good for a museum piece.

    2. Re:a tragedy all around by ceoyoyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it doesn't. Just because a bunch of people who took a risk died doesn't mean we need to make laws to stop it in the future.

      When you go to sea you take some risk, under any circumstances. People doing that should take responsibility for it. It's not the coast guard or the government's job to make sure people who make stupid decisions don't get hurt.

    3. Re:a tragedy all around by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The captain meant well, but his ship wasn't the measure of the dreams that sailed it.

      People do stupid shit, and put themselves in danger -- and they have a right to do so. We don't need to change the law in this case.

      His crew understood or should have understood the risks.

      The knowledge of the tragedy should serve as a bigger deterrant than any to sailors who would otherwise be so fool-hardy as to sail within reach of a hurricane.

    4. Re:a tragedy all around by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The loophole that allowed this ship to sail needs closed and the other such ships need safely regulated to museum duty.

      The solution to every problem is not more laws, more regulation, and more bureaucrats. If we are going to progress as a species, we need fewer laws that protect people from their own stupidity, so Darwinism can take its course.

    5. Re:a tragedy all around by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have to agree. I'm all for regulating passenger travel, because passengers don't have the opportunity to go do a walk-around of their aircraft before boarding, and even if they did they wouldn't know what to look for.

      However, if some idiot wants to take their Cessna up in a hurricane then my main concern is for the home that he ends up crashing into. That isn't as much of a concern for a ship out at sea.

      As long as everybody on the ship could be expected to understand the risks they were taking, then it was their choice to make.

    6. Re:a tragedy all around by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, that's exactly what he did. Reported in the first section of the article. Except you don't "hold a vote" on a ship. The captain tells you where the ship is going and you have the chance to quit if you feel it's too dangerous. The crew had that chance and nobody decided to quit.

      Yes, the captain sounds reckless. If he had survived it seems likely his license would be in jeopardy, as it should be. If he did knowingly take an unseaworthy vessel to sea there are already laws against that.

    7. Re:a tragedy all around by msauve · · Score: 5, Informative
      "Almost all of them were experienced sailors "

      Well, about that...

      Walbridge had decades at sea. Svendsen had worked tall ships prior to Bounty. The rest of the crew- so far it seems â" had an experience base of one:

      The third mate, Dan Cleveland (25), came aboard from a career in landscaping. Bounty was his first wooden tall ship.
      The Bosun, Laura Groves (28), had experience on smaller boats in the Keys. Bounty was her first wooden tall ship.
      Joshua Scornavacchi (25), was on his first wooden tall ship.
      Second mate Matt Sanders (37) had worked on a series of ships, including the schooner Margaret Todd, but Bounty was (wait for it) his first wooden tall ship.
      Testifying Wednesday morning was Anna Sprague (20); of course it was her first wooden tall ship.
      Claudene Christian (42) , was on her first wooden tall ship.

      When the new cook, Jessica Black (34), put on her immersion suit to abandon ship on the 29th of October, she had been aboard Bounty - her first wooden tall ship - for a grand total of 45 hours.

      -- Bounty hearings.

      "The summary makes it sound like they were exploiting a loophole in the regulations or something. "

      There's more...including

      The witness, Todd Kosakowski, looked at Coast Guard's evidence... Mr. Kosakowski - the lead shipwright and project manager for Boothbay Harbor Shipyards - was in charge of the last maintenance project ever to be done on Bounty...

      The pictures were of rotted frames and fasteners (trunnels) he found under the planking during repairs. Kosakowski told NTSB investigator Captain Rob Jones that he believes 75% of the framing above the waterline on Bounty may have been rotten, but that the ship's representative in the yard, Captain Robin Walbridge, declined any further search for rotted wood...

      Bounty was in a sort of regulatory no-man's-land. She was a recreational vessel, a well-crewed yacht, and it was none of big brother's business how she was maintained. Two things were making that true: 1. She wasn't nearly configured to pass inspection as a Coast Guard certificated passenger vessel, and 2: She was measured at under 300 regulatory tons - and that meant she didn't need an international load line certificate.

      the rest of it is an interesting read, with more detail than the CNN article. No, they weren't an experienced crew, and yes, they were playing loose with the rules.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    8. Re:a tragedy all around by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3

      There are already laws about what orders are legal for a captain to give, and what options crew have.

      People have been working these issues out in a modern legal way for several hundred years and in a less modern way for a few thousand before that. Maritime law is VERY mature. It doesn't need some knee jerk regulation inspired by one shipwreck.

      If a captain is found to have endangered the safety of his ship and crew he can be punished, including loss of his license and jail time. He doesn't get to hide behind a regulation like a regular boss (but I TOLD them to use safety harnesses....)

      At a higher level, people need to quit acting like serfs. If your boss tells you to do something dangerous, illegal or immoral, don't do it. Or go ahead and do it, but accept that the responsibility is yours.

    9. Re:a tragedy all around by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 3

      So long as you only harm yourself I agree.

      I do think we need laws about you smoking around other people though. That is something I find very annoying how can you be sitting somewhere and someone will come up to you and smoke. They have the right to harm themselves, they don't have the right to harm you.

      As someone who doesn't smoke, I hate your argument and entire line of reasoning. I don't need your government forcing people to accommodate my personal desires related to smoking cigarettes. Forcing all businesses to go smoke-free is asinine. Especially since every business had the opportunity to be smoke-free by their own decision, and almost none did. A few restaurants and nightclubs tried, and changed their mind when revenue plunged.

      I find it strange that only about 20% of adults smoke, but a restaurant that bans smoking loses business to the others that allow it. How is 80% of a possible customer base not enough to keep a restaurant afloat? I'm not saying 80% of their former customers, but the base number of potential customers. It seems lie all the people who want smoking banned would flock to such a location. But they all follow the crowds into the smoke-filled restaurants where "the cool people" hang out.

      As for the "they don't have the right to harm you" line, if you actually believed that you would be calling for a ban on driving. Cars have hurt me far more than second hand smoke has.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    10. Re:a tragedy all around by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3

      Spot on. Few Americans seem to have any appreciation for Maritime Law, which is far older than the United States.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    11. Re: a tragedy all around by tburkhol · · Score: 5, Informative
      Hollywood replicas are built to be external replicas.

      They do not necessarily use the internal framing that would have made the original Bounty worthy of Cape Horn. They do not necessarily use the same materials (esp, type of wood) that would have made the original Bounty worthy of Cape Horn. They do not necessarily do maintenance that would have kept the original Bounty seaworthy for 20 years. And they do not necessarily take the ship out of service when rot and decay of natural materials cause skyrocketing maintenance costs to make the vessel un-economical to operate.

      This is a common tragedy among both replica and historical tallships: the costs of maintaining them in condition for rough weather are astronomical and the receipts from tourists, day sails, and historical programs are rarely close to those costs. You make compromises, like being sure to steer clear of rough weather because you know how much more water comes in when the seams work, but you try to get as much sea time as possible. Spend enough time at sea, and maybe you start discounting the fundamental structural weakness. Fundamental structural weakness means that one point of failure, which might otherwise be inconvenient, becomes catastrophic. I can see myself in the crew's position, and I know that I would have made the choice to stay aboard.

  3. Re:Not sure I understand by b5bartender · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...because they were rescued only after a last-ditch effort to call for help by rigging a ham radio to send an e-mail to their home office?

  4. The sea gives and the sea takes. by santax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Always been like that, always will be like that.

  5. Re:Not sure I understand by msauve · · Score: 4, Informative
    I know it's not considered proper to read the article before commenting, but since the GP did, you should have, too.

    The ship's high frequency radio: no response.

    Bounty's satellite phone: no response.

    Finally, electrician Doug Faunt rigged a ham radio to send and receive e-mail. They e-mailed Bounty's home office, which in turn contacted the Coast Guard at 9 p.m. The crew learned a Coast Guard C-130 search aircraft was heading toward the Bounty.

    If you knew as much as you think you do, you'd know that marine VHF is good for a maximum range about 110 km, with antennas at both ends mounted high and good conditions. The Bounty sank about 100 miles (160 km) offshore. There weren't a lot of other ships to contact in the area of the hurricane, I'd guess.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  6. Re:Safest at sea? by The+Rizz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe, maybe not ... but the safest place for a ship to be is generally not sailing towards a hurricane.

  7. Re:Safest at sea? by msauve · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the safest place for a ship to be during a storm is at sea

    Perhaps, but that doesn't make it the safest place for the crew. I'd also guess it's also safer for the ship to be in a harbor not in the path of a hurricane than at sea in a hurricane.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  8. Re:Christian? any relation to Fletcher? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes she was

    A live summary of the sinking can be found at http://blog.halifaxshippingnews.ca/2012/10/tall-ship-bounty-in-trouble.html

    Mario Vittone also gave a good summary of the hearings http://gcaptain.com/bounty-hearings-chief-mates-testifies

  9. Re:Not sure I understand by msauve · · Score: 5, Informative

    I wasn't the one who brought up VHF, which wouldn't have helped, as the GP's flippant "use channel 16" claimed.

    The article makes clear that their efforts to communicate using their marine radio were unsuccessful, while using the ham radio (almost certainly HF) worked.

    BTW, I have an Extra class ham license, and am well aware of the capabilities and limitations of the various bands.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  10. Re:Safest at sea? by mysidia · · Score: 3, Informative

    I frequently come across the maxim that the safest place for a ship to be during a storm is at sea, the logic being a ship in port will be thrown against piers, reefs, etc. and destroyed instead of at sea where, presumably, you can sail away from or around danger. Any sailors care to weigh in on this?

    The only way a ship at sea is going to properly steer around any danger, is if there are people on board. And those people will be in much more danger than if they were on land.

    Damaged ships can be repaired or replaced, by spending money. Lives of lost crewmembers cannot be restored by paying money.

    At sea, waves can sink the boat unrecoverably too.

    At port, the boat may be at risk of damage, especially if not properly and thoroughly secured at a sufficient distance from reefs.

  11. Re:Safest at sea? by Above · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For large ships, where large is defined as unable to be easily lifted out of the water and stored on land, it is safer for them to be out to sea.

    But out to sea does not mean in a hurricane. Out to sea means leaving in advance of the storm such that the ship can get well away from the most severe weather. Large commercial ships go nowhere near these sorts of weather events, it's better to sail a week out of the way to go around than risk losing a large boat.

    Dude wanted to get where he was going. Had he left and gone due east, towards Europe, the boat would have been no where near this storm when it hit the eastern seaboard. He could have then turned around and gone to his destination, perhaps a week late, but alive after a nice cruise.

  12. Re:Safest at sea? by Longjmp · · Score: 4, Informative

    First off, I don't consider myself a sailor, but I have crossed the Atlantic Ocean a few times on my 48 ft boat.
    So, let's see: If you are caught in a storm, there's no way going near a coast. Waves will throw you onto the beach (if you are lucky) or onto a cliff. In first case you'll kill a few of your crew. In second, you'll kill all, including yourself.
    Same goes for a harbor. No way even trying to come near.
    That said, I never encountered a hurricane, and I wonder if the Bounty's captain was either incompetent (as to read forecasts), or simply overwhelmed by the speed of the hurricane (which in a way implies incompetence as well.)
    In either way, once caught in a storm, you certainly do not try to reach a harbor.

    --
    There are fewer illiterates than people who can't read.
  13. Ship's frame was rotted by WaxlyMolding · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Local media reported here that the ship was in for service at Boothbay, Maine before this occured. The captain was informed that the ship's framing timbers were rotted and needed replacement. They opted to not have the repairs performed and sailed off into a hurricaine.

  14. Re:took the ship's tour last year by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Informative

    There were folks dressed in colonial costumes and it was quite the sight.

    Colonial dress? Wasn't the Bounty His Majesy's Ship of the Line? The actors/actresses should have been dressed in costume common to Portsmith (Great Britain, not New Hampshire), or perhaps nude, as the natives of New Guinea.

    --
    Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
  15. Re:Not sure I understand by msauve · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm a bit surprised that there aren't stations monitoring HF for emergency broadcasts.

    There are. It doesn't do any good if the radio doesn't work, or the antenna blew down, though.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  16. Re:Epitath by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I cannot be sure how seaworthy the Bounty was. I never saw it, except in photos or video. Photos and videos don't really tell much - a guy needs to get into the woodwork, study everything above and below the waterline to decide something like that.

    But, I propose that the ship went down due to inept seamanship.

    Debris clogged the bilge pumps? Really? I heard over the ship's loudspeakers, many times during five years of sea duty, "Secure for heavy seas. Secure all missile hazards." Seamen and Petty Officers would go to work, making certain that heavy objects were bolted down, lashed down, chocked, or whatever. Chiefs and officers would come around, inspecting, searching for even small objects that might be free to go flying, possibly putting an eye out. Yes, even pens and pencils were secured. Personal property was stowed in a locker, that locker bolted to the deck, where it had withstood many another day of heavy seas. The ONLY missile hazards permissible, were the bodies of your ship mates!

    You got shit clogging the bilge pumps - you're gonna die, simple as that. The most seaworthy of ships is always taking on water, even on calm days, or in port. The crew gets an idea of how much, pretty quickly. Tied up to a pier, they may have to pump a hundred gallons of water out every month, on a smaller ship. On a huge naval ship, they'll get that much condensation!

    FTFA: The engine room itself worried Bounty's newly hired engineer, Chris Barksdale. He thought it needed a good cleaning. Sawdust and wood chips littered the floor. Everything just looked old.

    That sawdust and wood chips is more than enough to spell the Bounty's doom. It doesn't take much to choke the impellor of a bilge pump. A chip the size of a small person's thumb is sufficient. Strainers help, but strainers can be choked as well.

    FTFA: Below deck, crew members suffered from seasickness. In the galley, the motion pulled tables from their hinges.

    Definitely not good - the article repeatedly mentions rotting wood. Someone should have been aware that the tables weren't securely fastened down. What of all the rest of the ship's equipment?

    FTFA: Wood chips and sawdust from the dirty floor were floating in the rising water and clogging the pumps. They had to be shut off constantly to clear the strainers. Scornavacchi and Adam Prokosh used trash bags – and their bare hands – to scoop debris.
    As the scramble to pump water off the ship grew more desperate, deckhand Mark Warner smashed the engine room door open so he could move a portable gasoline powered pump up to the deck.
    But the pump wouldn't work. According to testimony, no one had been trained to use it.
    Around 7 p.m., one of the ship's two generators failed.

    At this point, the ship is dead. She can only take on more water, and sink lower into the water, becoming ever more unresponsive to the crew's input.

    Inept seamanship killed the Bounty, plain and simple. The Captain and First Mate failed to do their jobs in preparing for sea, the crew failed, and the ship died. The ship was missing a slave driving Boatswain's Mate to drive the crew into performing the proper preparations.

    Thank God that the Navy has those knuckle dragging Deck Apes to ensure that Navy ships don't founder in the same way!

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  17. Re:Epitath by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They also appear to have foundered earlier than necessary because they lost power. As my sailing instructor drilled into us, you're in a sailboat. The engines are auxiliaries. Being beam on to the sea in a storm is not a happy situation, and, in a sailing ship, having your engines die isn't a good reason for it.

    The captain sounds like an irresponsible thrill seeker, and the crew, although they were all supposedly experienced sailors, does seem to have neglected a lot. The article implies throughout that it was some kind of hero worship.

  18. Re:took the ship's tour last year by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Bounty was originally a merchant ship but she was purchased by the Royal Navy and named the Bounty. Proper dress aboard the Bounty would be late 18th century Royal Navy.

  19. Re:Safest at sea? by DFurno2003 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I spent 8 years in the Navy, 2 of which were as a deck seaman on an LHA (800 footer). 4 years were spent in Norfolk VA doing coastal water patrol and the other 2 were spent as harbor security on Guam. I have experienced a few storms underway and i can assure you there is nothing good to be had in a hurricane at sea. Getting underway to escape a harbor (and sail around the storm) is common practice Getting underway and deliberately sailing into a storm to increase speed on a janky vessel with a crew of limited knowledge and experience is simple incompetence.

  20. Navy regulations are written in blood by drnb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sawdust and wood chips littered the floor ... Thank God that the Navy has those knuckle dragging Deck Apes to ensure that Navy ships don't founder in the same way!

    My uncle was a carpenter. I never saw sawdust or wood chips on his workshop floor unless he was in the middle of cutting or drilling.

    Of course in his youth he was in the Navy, destroyers, WW2. When I asked what he did he said that they maintained the ship and its equipment, cleaned the ship and its equipment, and drilled for damage control and battle. He added that on occasion they were allowed to eat or sleep and that on very rare occasions they went into battle (Pacific, '42-'45, over a dozen battle stars).

    He told me he learned to immediately take care of the smallest things when he was in the Navy. That the saying "Navy regs are written in blood" is true, that many regs are the way they are because someone died doing things differently. Given the unforgiving nature of the sea I'm surprised the professional civilian sailors (officers of the Bounty at least) did not understand that sloppiness can get you killed at sea.

  21. Re:Epitath by drnb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because the crew isn't properly trained is no excuse for the officers not seeing to it that things are properly ship-shape!

    If a crew member is not properly trained it is the officer's responsibility to quickly remedy that. It doesn't matter if the crew member is paid or a volunteer. You go to sea, you learn to do your job properly, period.

  22. Re:Epitath by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've looked at the decision to leave port. I can't really fault that. Navy captains routinely make that same decision. The Coast Guard, likewise.

    The decision to turn south and west to follow the storm seems somewhat less responsible. But, again, Navy and Coast Guard captains do it, with reason.

    The captain's failure in this instance centers around housekeeping and seaworthiness. If the ship not truly seaworthy, if housekeeping is a threat to that seaworthiness, then the captain must rectify the situation, or refrain from going to sea and/or chasing that storm. This captain chose to run his ship close to it's extreme performance parameters, despite the fact that the ship wasn't "ship shape".

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  23. Re:Epitath by pehrs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have worked on navy and civilian ships, and I can't imagine going to sea with sawdust or wood chips in the engine room. Doing it in heavy weather is unthinkable and the thought sends a shiver up my spine.

    Maintaining a ship takes time and dedication. In the time of the tall ships they had the boatswain and the carpenters. Today we have the chief and the engineering staff. An experienced seaman in either position would probably have stopped this trip, and that is one very important reason that the chief should be on equal standing with the captain.

  24. Re:Epitath by Shinobi · · Score: 3, Informative

    The thing is, for that particular hurricane, even many USN ships, the ones not fast enough to outrun a hurricane that size, remained in port areas, anchored up for hurricane away from the docks. Hell, from what I read on the SA forums, even many USCG ships sheltered from the hurricane, anchoring up-river in the lee of hills if possible.

    Other tall ship captains remained with their ships in port, and even warned the captain of The Bounty, but he set out anyway. The problem is, the captain ran with a personality cult crew who was selected based on who was agreeable. and he WAS a thrillseeker. Several experienced Tall Ship sailors refused to work with him. An interview was found where he stated that "you chase hurricanes".

    Another reason behind his departure may have been corporate pressure, wanting them down in St. Petersburg as early as possible for cost reasons.

  25. Re:Epitath by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    He does seem to have neglected seaworthiness and housekeeping. But there's plenty to criticize in his decision to leave port as well. A fifty year old wooden square rigger, particularly one in poor repair, with a small crew with limited experience on the ship isn't the same thing as a naval capital ship. Even if a cruiser, for example, decided to go to sea in advance of a hurricane, you can bet the captain wouldn't be launching helicopters, auxiliaries or the zodiacs unless absolutely necessary.