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Fox, Univision May Go Subscription To Stop Aereo

GTRacer writes "In response to Aereo's recent win allowing per-user over-the-air antenna feeds to remote devices, Fox COO Chase Carey said, 'We need to be able to be fairly compensated for our content. This is not an ideal path we look to pursue [...],' that path being a switch to a subscription model. Spanish-language stalwart Univison may join Fox, per CEO Haim Saban. Aereo replied, in part, 'When broadcasters asked Congress for a free license to digitally broadcast on the public's airwaves, they did so with the promise that they would broadcast in the public interest and convenience, and that they would remain free-to-air. Having a television antenna is every American's right.' A switch to a pay-TV subscription model would stymie Aereo but could hurt affiliate stations."

28 of 306 comments (clear)

  1. While you are at it by Sparticus789 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Can we switch ALL channels to a subscription model? I only watch 5 channels, and I would gladly pay $5 each for those channels and save myself hundreds of dollars per year.

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
    1. Re:While you are at it by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On cable that would be fine, but not over the air channels. If they try that, they should indeed lose their broadcast license.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:While you are at it by Picass0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The clock is ticking for local over the air affiliates anyway. In a few years expect all the big players like Viacom, NBCUniversal, Fox, Disney, etc... to focus on becoming "apps" with content stores or subscriber libraries. There are constant rumors of HBO GO waiving the cable subscriber requirement and becoming a Netflix or Hulu. Premium channels are not going to standby much longer and watch Amazon Prime and other services steal "their audience". They will get in the game and it will by the end of the status quo for cable tv.

      Smaller local news affiliates will become an afterthought. They will need to figure out how to survive as the business model continues to shift to streaming.

    3. Re:While you are at it by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to the public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back."

      Life-Line by Robert A. Heinlein, 1939

      /If they want to take their ball and go home, I would encourage them to do so.
      //NBC/CBS/ABC as well. Someone will fill your shoes, if for no other reason than the lucrative sports broadcast.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:While you are at it by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why should less popular channels by subsidized? Why should anything ever be subsidized (as far as entertainment)?

      Because mass-market pablum will be the only thing produced?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:While you are at it by afidel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      History, SyFy and TLC would all be fine:

      Prime-time Average Viewers (Live+SD) Week Ending April 7, 2013:


      1. Network (000s)
      2. USA 2718
      3. DSNY 2505
      4. A&E 1880
      5. HIST 1793
      6. TBSC 1758
      7. FOXN 1650
      8. TNT 1601
      9. ESPN 1388
      10. ADSM 1286
      11. HGTV 1198
      12. LIFE 1107
      13. FX 1089
      14. FOOD 1022
      15. AMC 1010
      16. SYFY 1005
      17. DISC 980
      18. NAN 963
      19. BRAV 957
      20. TRU 903
      21. SPK 883
      22. TLC 844
      23. CMDY 834
      24. APL 780
      25. MTV 771
      26. BET 754

      It would be the rest of the filler station that wouldn't make it.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    6. Re:While you are at it by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And what will REALLY make them shit their pants is when they all switch...and nobody shows up.

      I live in a college town with my oldest in college so I am pretty much surrounded by 20 somethings all damned day and you know what I found? they don't watch TV, in fact more and more of them don't even own a TV. They might have netflix to watch a movie, might catch a clip on YouTube but THAT IS IT, they really don't give a rat's ass about watching traditional TV, they have their social stuff and their games and they just don't have any desire to sit and just passively veg out in front of a TV like previous generations did.

      I always thought I was a bit of an oddball because I dropped TV nearly a decade ago, turns out I was just ahead of the curve. talking to these kids that come into the shop pretty much TV is looked at something for your parents or grandparents, its just not something they care about. They are a HELL of a lot more social oriented, they are getting together with friends and watching a rifftrax on the widescreen one of them uses as a monitor, they are on their FB or in an MMO, regular passive TV really just doesn't hold any appeal to them and I honestly don't blame 'em as when I go out to visit my mother I'm forced to watch it and...fuck is ALL TV this God damned stupid? Is it ALL reality garbage now? Because spinning through the channels that is what it seems like to me, every time I'm exposed to it all I can think is "When is "Ass" or "Oww my balls" coming on?" because it feels THAT stupid.

      So give the OTA bandwidth to cellphones, maybe add a nice free channel for the next gen of WiFi, because honestly even the old folks aren't watching that shit anymore, they have Dish or DirectTV and the kids don't watch any of it.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    7. Re:While you are at it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Informative

      And what will REALLY make them shit their pants is when they all switch...and nobody shows up.

      The process of them shitting their pants has already begun.

      The sad part of it is that they still don't get it - they think that they can solve it by bringing it to iDevices and such, without changing the basic subscription model of cable.

    8. Re:While you are at it by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't even think its the subscription model...

      Sure, television always had a lot of crap.. but it wasn't always so loaded up with cheap crap aka "reality television."

      How many channels have names that lie about their content now? The learning channel? National geographic channel? The history channel? ....

      Its cheap to pay 4 or 5 guys with cameras to follow around a bunch of douche bags.. its crap so they only get 10% of the viewers that they used to, but it only costs them 1% of what their old programming had cost to produce, and sometimes the cast of douche bags they are following are so extraordinarily douchy that they have a "hit" and get twice as many viewers as their old programming did...

      I'm not sure that I wouldn't make the same decisions as they are if I was in their place.. profits are up all the way down the death spiral...

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. What am I missing? by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they already provide a free over-the-air signal, in order to be available to the most viewers (and therefore to the most advertising targets), isn't another company extending that viewer base at no expense to Fox, Univision, CBS, NBC, ABC a *benefit* to them?

    1. Re:What am I missing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      SSssshh! They're going to take Fox off the air and we don't have to do anything

    2. Re:What am I missing? by SirDrinksAlot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yea I have no idea what they're complaining about. Instead of fighting Aereo maybe they could work with them instead? When you're broadcasting you have no idea who's watching what and what kind of exposure paying advertisers are getting. Aereo likely knows what channel you're watching and at what time, this seems like ENORMOUSLY valuable information to a broadcaster. If everybody setup a TV tuner in their apartment and streamed it to their device of choice then the broadcaster has no clue what kind of market penetration they're getting.

      It's like cutting off your nose to spite the face.

    3. Re:What am I missing? by interkin3tic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Didn't you read "We need to be able to be fairly compensated for our content."? Translation: "Someone else is getting some profit off of our stuff. That means we aren't extracting all the value out of it we can. That can't be tolerated." Witness Rupert Murdoch and his battles with google. Losing two dollars to claim a dollar in someone else's pocket seems to be an all-too-common approach to the internet. It will take a while before people realize it's counterproductive to do shit like this. When they see profits going up, they'll attribute it to that, without realizing that it's due to other factors. When their profits go down, they'll use that to further justify this.

    4. Re:What am I missing? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Informative

      You apparently do not understand that Fox and Fox News are not the same thing. Fox News is not "on the air". It is a cable channel. Fox on the other hand is broadcast "over the air" in most markets.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    5. Re:What am I missing? by DJ+Particle · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. What they do is give you an antenna in the cloud. Each customer has their own antenna powered by an array. You watch the same content that someone with a rooftop antenna does.

      On facebook, I did a basic outline as to why this was ruled legal:

      Why Aereo is legal in an easy side-by-side comparison between traditional and digital:

      1) Just as you had a TV antenna on your roof that only you can access, you have your own antenna that only you can access. Each customer has their OWN antenna. Your service fee pays for maintenance of the array your specific antenna is powered by.

      2) Just as you could split your roof antenna signal as many times as you wanted throughout your house to send the signal to all your TVs, you can access your Aereo antenna with any device you own via the Aereo app. Your service fee helps maintenance of the Aereo app and keeps it updated. To clarify...keep in mind you are not so much accessing CONTENT, as you are an ANTENNA! That's the key point of this right there. You're accessing an ANTENNA that is exclusively YOURS, and sending its signal to your video device. The internet is simply playing the role of the coaxial cable.

      3) Just as you could use a VCR to record any signal that comes off your roof antenna to watch for later, your personal Aereo cloud storage can store recorded programs to access at a later date on any of your devices that run the Aereo app. Until 2008, this could have been illegal, but Cablevision won a decision that said they could store programs in the cloud for their customers' personal viewing. What Aereo does in this case is no different. Like the Cablevision situation, each customer has their OWN cloud storage. Your service fee helps the maintenance of the cloud storage.

      4) The one limitation: Just as your roof antenna could only receive local stations that you had to live in the area to access, you need to prove you are in the right market for the service. This is why right now, only the NYC market is eligible for Aereo, despite its user being able to watch their programs over the internet. You have to live in the area to get its channels. This is due to FCC rules of exclusivity. Aereo is planning rollouts in numerous other cities (including my home area of Minneapolis) before the end of the year. Your service fees help Aereo to grow.

    6. Re:What am I missing? by alexander_686 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There are 2 downsides with that from the TV perspective –

      First, time-shifted /place-shifted advertisements are worth less. People pay less attention to them. (Live sports, for example, can charge a premium because people don’t time-shifting watching those vents.)

      Secondly, and more importantly, the TV stations would have to share their revenue with Aereo – and more importantly – Aereo would be in the driving seat in terms of negotiations. I think the TV stations would want to go into negotiations in a stronger position.

      So I don’t think they are inherently against it – they just want a larger slice of the pie. (Not saying that we should give it them.).

    7. Re:What am I missing? by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Aereo is not time shifting or place shifting. They are providing the 'signal' only to people nominally in the broadcast area who simply have bad reception. The signal is provided live.

      The people using Aereo would otherwise have to subscribe to cable or just not watch TV at all.

      They're already getting a fair piece of their pie. Aereo baked a brand new pie and Fox wants to steal it off of the window sill.

  3. Good. by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Instead of seeing it as a way to increase their viewing area to their advertisers they're alienating their customer base. I quit watching normal TV years ago, if enough stations do this we could reallocate all that useful TV bandwidth to something useful.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  4. Awesome! by onyxruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's hope all the like companies do this, it would be great for the American public. Once they do this we can then take the considerable bandwidth that is being allocated on TV and use it for more useful things like next generation wireless devices. I for one must encourage this behavior and the removal of public TV from public airwaves. We also gain the benefit of removing decades old indecency standards from the days of the Model T.

    How many people would sign a petition in support of this measure?

    1. Re:Awesome! by Antipater · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Broadcast TV allows me to watch programming I enjoy, for free, without my stream lagging to hell whenever my ISP arbitrarily decides to throttle me.

      And I would rather have my indecency standards set by a monolithic, slow-as-molasses bureaucracy than by the whims of a media company.

      Until net neutrality is settled, I would ask that you not sign any petition doing away with public TV.

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
  5. Cancel it! by simonbp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fox is so good at canceling good shows that they thought they'd cancel themselves!

  6. And by "May"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And, of course, by "may go subscription" you really mean "are spouting entirely hollow threats because everyone knows they're not going to throw away their broadcast money just to spite one company."

  7. Aren't OTA TV stations compensated by ads? by NevarMore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "We need to be able to be fairly compensated for our content. " - Don't you sell advertisements to get paid? I never recall getting a bill for OTA TV .

  8. Inevitable step by Average · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This was an inevitable step once we went down the path of allowing OTA broadcasters to start demanding payments for retransmission on cable (originally "Community Antenna TV"). That was a stupid step to begin with... you're sending an unencrypted signal into my house... why do you care how I get it or if I let a middleman bring it to me? It is also inevitable once the broadcasters started getting bought by pay-TV companies (Disney, Comcast, etc).

    For FOX, though, I don't think their #1 TV property (a little thing called the NFL) is going to be real happy at all with them becoming 'yet another cable station'.

  9. Fox Corporate Asshole by SpaceManFlip · · Score: 5, Insightful
    +1 for appropriate Heinlein wisdom

    This Fox COO is making dumb threats. As one with an inside-view of how broadcast TV is made available to viewers, I can tell you that this action if taken will result in no good for Fox.

    Basically, there is in many areas at most a 15-20% marketshare for OTA broadcast TV, and the rest get their TV from cable or satellite. For Fox to be able to charge the "freeloaders" viewing by broadcast, they would have to implement some kind of scrambling of the broadcast signal.
    Scrambling the signal would require hardware on both ends: 1 scrambler at the broadcast transmitter, and 1 descrambler at each viewer's house (many).

    How many currently free viewers do you reckon are going to start paying Fox for hardware/subscription to view their 1 broadcast channel that they used to get for free? My bet is nearly none. So their 15-20% share would drop to ~ 2-5% costing them 10+% of their viewers. Look at that number, then think of the nation-wide ad revenue for the corporation it could represent, and plop that figure onto the table of the shareholders' meeting....

    1. Re:Fox Corporate Asshole by internerdj · · Score: 4, Informative

      Maybe I misread but I thought they just meant drop out of broadcast and only air the channels over cable or satelite.

  10. Re:So what is this mythical new business model? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't know who that "everything must be free" crowd are. Personally, I would gladly pay for quality content if that content is made available to me in a convenient way. This boils down to two things: 1) I must be able to pay for it once and stream it when I want it (i.e. no subscription), and 2) it must not be bundled with some other crap. I'm fine with time-limited rentals, DRM etc. Just make it all easy and convenient and get rid of all the bullshit.

    Oh, and forget the word "cable". And the general idea that I need to subscribe to a load of crap to get a few things that I actually care about. I want to pay only for what I actually want, and no more than that.

  11. Re:So what is this mythical new business model? by jakimfett · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm more than willing to pay a dime (or several hundred dimes) if I can actually get easily accessible things that I want to see.

    For example, I have a Netflix and Hulu subscription. Why? Because streaming content, my choice of what I see or don't see, no advertisements, and no contract. I'm happy to pay for it, because it gives me what I want, when I want it, and doesn't get in my way.

    Conversely, I'll never pay for a cable subscription again. Cable requires (at least in my area) a 2 year contract, gives me 100+ channels of crap with only 3-5 that show something that I'd like to see (but only shows what I want to see at certain times of day), and forces me to watch advertisements. Why would I pay to watch advertisements? I'd be 100% ok with ad supported free channels, but if I'm paying for it, it had better not have ads.

    Here's a suggestion for the cable companies out there. Turn your network into the Netflix of TV. Basic premise is that you can watch the last 3, or 5, or maybe the entire season of a specific show. For news, show the last week. Give it to me searchable, and let me pick up from where I was watching last time. Make it available for a reasonable, tiered price (eg, it's ok to charge extra for premium channels like HBO or Starz), and don't force me to sign a contract. Finally, get rid of the advertisements. Or, maybe give people the option to pay 75% the normal subscription price if they'll watch an advertisement at the beginning of the content.

    --
    Bits of code, random ramblings: jakimfett.com