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Gambling-Focused Internet Cafes Now Illegal In Florida

Posted by timothy on from the but-starbucks-is-nervous dept.

retroworks writes "I ignored the warning posted here on Slashdot on March 23. Surely someone was setting up some April Fools day hoax. But the Governor has now signed the bill. Whose cold dead hands will they pry the computer mice out of?" Note: while this might not change your opinion of the Florida law or other things it might lead to, it is aimed specifically at the kind of "Internet cafe" where the "Internet" part is essentially just a portal to online gambling, rather than at conventional Internet cafes.

53 comments

  1. Seems very reasonable by dwhitaker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    These are NOT internet cafes - they masquerade as such, but are really mini casinos. They are popularly known as "sweepstakes cafes" and often provide free food and drinks to encourage people to stay and gamble. This article (http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120512/ARTICLE/120519835) does a pretty good job describing some of their features (e.g. one in Sarasota, FL gives out 50 kegs of free beer each month and offers $20,000 jackpots). You can think what you will about whether online (or offline) gambling is a good or bad thing, but this seems well within the purview of a state government to regulate or shut down, and they seem to have acted reasonably.

    --
    Douglas Whitaker
    1. Re:Seems very reasonable by RogueyWon · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Your point is entirely valid, but I do hope they've been careful with the drafting of this one. They don't have the best record recently at avoiding unintended consequences.

    2. Re:Seems very reasonable by porkThreeWays · · Score: 2

      It was reactionary to a bigger scandal that happened here. I doubt they were very careful. It passed pretty quickly.

      --
      If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
    3. Re:Seems very reasonable by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Was it Wisconsin, where following worries about contaminating groundwater with oil they passed a law stating "any even motor vehicle even partially immersed in water must be immediately moved to dry ground" efficiently banning all ships and motorboats?

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    4. Re:Seems very reasonable by b4upoo · · Score: 0

      Florida's position on gambling seems to boil down to greed. We allow gambling on Indian reservations here and we allow casino type operations in our horse racing tracks. Then we also allow gambling in which coupons are won rather than cash.
                                  Apparently it is all based upon greed. Florida government seems to feel that gambling is just dandy as long as the money stays in Florida. Or put differently morality simply plays no role at all in the decision process. For example we have a lottery system in which the earnings go to education and therefore that gambling is acceptable. We have bingo everywhere and that is ok as long as a token portion goes to charity.
                                    All of this is supposedly a counter balance to the problem of our unusual number of seniors who become very vulnerable to extreme gambling addiction. You can bet that many a grandmother or grandfather has gambled their way out of house, home and life savings.
                                      There is no easy answer. Essentially i believe that people should be free to gamble. Yet the public will be forced to pay for the carnage that inevitably caused by that gambling. And the state doesn't give a hoot as long as the state perceives that they profit by allowing gambling. Our gambling laws and policies might be better thought out if we simply allow internet gambling and get the profit motive out of the state congress.

    5. Re:Seems very reasonable by tilante · · Score: 2

      Quibble: the state doesn't 'allow' gambling on Indian reservations. It has no power to stop it. The Supreme Court has held that states do not have power to regulate activities performed by Indians on Indian reservations.

    6. Re:Seems very reasonable by dwhitaker · · Score: 1

      I don't have the knowledge to be able to address each of your points (in the affirmative or negative), but Native American Reservations have sovereignty in their own right, and, along with the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988, that pretty much makes Native American Gaming something that the state has - at best - limited say in. Check out the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_gaming

      --
      Douglas Whitaker
    7. Re:Seems very reasonable by westlake · · Score: 1

      Was it Wisconsin, where following worries about contaminating groundwater with oil they passed a law stating "any even motor vehicle even partially immersed in water must be immediately moved to dry ground" efficiently banning all ships and motorboats?

      The power boaters and jet skiers would cry "Foul!"

      But there is nothing particularly unusual about restricting fragile inland (state) waterways to rafts, rowboats and canoes.

  2. What kind of Mickey Mouse State by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

    What kind of Mickey Mouse State would pass .... Oh wait!

  3. FYI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Internet Cafes", more specifically Internet Sweepstakes Cafes, in Florida have NOTHING to do with the internet.

    These cafes were running PC based slot-machine type games. Internet cafes, where you can rent PC/internet time is still legal in Florida, but there are none because either everyone has their own or they go to the library for free.

    This story should not be on Slashdot.

  4. Summary? by mpicker0 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I don't understand the expression of surprise in the first part of the summary. The "cafes" referred to are set up specifically to skirt the state gambling laws by taking advantage of the "sweepstakes" loophole. They make it appear that you're playing video poker, roulette, etc. but you're really just revealing your sweepstakes winnings, which were predetermined when you bought into the game. Bloomberg Businessweek had an interesting article on these things a few years ago.

    ... rather than at conventional Internet cafes.

    I'm not sure what "conventional Internet cafes" refers to. The idea of the "Internet cafe" as a place where people go to buy time on the Internet died shortly after it was born in the late 90's. You can still go to Starbucks, Panera, etc. and use the Internet there; this bill isn't aimed at that. This is not a big deal.

    1. Re:Summary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re: mpicker0: "This is not a big deal" ? Maybe, it's not a big deal to you, it is a VERY big deal to the 1000's of people that are now without a job, with no way feed their families, and pay rent. What an ignorant statement, "This is not a big deal". Tell that to my wife when there isn't any food in the cupboards to feed our 3 kids..

    2. Re:Summary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless your running one of this Sweepstakes Cafes, it is no big deal. Your wife and kids would probably thank you to stop gambling away what little money you have left if you're going there. Of course, if you need the internet there is still the library and few other legitimate internet cafes if they can attract enough consumers to stay afloat. Am guessing/hoping though that unemployment offices would also have computers to help people in need of jobs.

    3. Re:Summary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thousand people who were deliberately violating the intent of the law and had quite a bit of time to watch this happening and get a "legitimate job"? Or the rich fuckers who skirting the law to exploit the customers? No sympathy here.

    4. Re:Summary? by Applekid · · Score: 1

      I don't understand the expression of surprise in the first part of the summary. The "cafes" referred to are set up specifically to skirt the state gambling laws by taking advantage of the "sweepstakes" loophole. They make it appear that you're playing video poker, roulette, etc. but you're really just revealing your sweepstakes winnings, which were predetermined when you bought into the game. Bloomberg Businessweek had an interesting article on these things a few years ago.

      Here's the thing about this moral panic. Florida allows gambling. Florida allows casinos. This is clearly just a move to protect the interests of the existing casinos by eliminating the competition that was successfully able to also provide gambling entertainment with significantly lower startup costs.

      Seems like those startup costs omitted kickbacks to the politicians.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    5. Re:Summary? by Bigby · · Score: 1

      I love out a loophole to gambling is a "sweepstakes". Oh the irony...or should I say hypocrisy?

  5. Florida resident here by porkThreeWays · · Score: 4, Informative

    This story has a long history. Basically these places were operating with a variety of names (cafes, arcades, sweepstakes, probably others) for many years. They operated based on loopholes in Florida law and their sole purpose was for gambling. A very large one got shut down because they crossed the line from simply unethical to illegal. They were operating under the premise they were a veterans benefit organization and not actually giving veterans and significant amounts of money. The lieutenant governor was involved with the company somehow so the story exploded. Rick Scott is already wildly unpopular and the Florida Republican party is on the path to possibly losing 2014 so the hammer came down to make a point that the legislature can still get things done.

    It's pretty telling that the company that was shut down was run mostly by lawyers. They operated along the cracks and loopholes of Florida laws. These places are usually in poor and retired neighborhoods so I'm not that sad to see them go away. Maybe if we can do something about the "WE BUY GOLD" and check cashing places we can start to clean up these communities.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
    1. Re:Florida resident here by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > Maybe if we can do something about the "WE BUY GOLD" and check cashing places
      > we can start to clean up these communities.

      Right and maybe if we can get fever under control, we can stop malaria.

      We all know, afterall, the primary reason they are poor is that they are out there selling their gold and other hard assetts rather than hording them.

      The "Check cashers" are pretty eggerious poverty profiteers, and I know people who have ended up fucked by those deals.

      Cleaning up those neighborhoods is not contingent upon stopping them, any more than extending life expectancy will be accomplished by destroying saprophytes. Kill them all, and you still wont be cleaning up the neighborhoods. You need to address the real causes of poverty, for which there likely are no simple single solutions. Do that, though, and the vultures will starve.

      Bigger problems are that the economy needs to grow significantly to deal with massive underemployment, and people need to be trained for jobs. Do you have any idea how big the real problems are? We have entire communities where significant portions of the population are technically disabled and on disability.

      Why? well... because they can't work. They are easily disabled because they have no ability to get a job that doesn't involve physical labor. A 40 year old woman with a high school level education, who has back pain, likely IS disabled...even though I, and many people I know, could work with the same condition, just because we can get jobs where we sit.

      One woman I heard interviewed recently, when asked what job she COULD do, she said she could "find cheats in the welfare system". After being pressed a bit on how she chose THAT of all jobs.... it turns out.... its the only job she knew about where people could work sitting down.

      There are entire communities like this, of people who are either disabled from the only work available to them, or who are on their way to being there. The long term answer has to include education and worker training (something that wont even be considered once people are officially "disabled"), but even that wont magically fix things...but it might give the people in those communities a leg up on attacking their own problems.

      Of course, it doesn't help that our "justice system" has been systematically abused to disenfranchise uppity niggers who think they can get away with using the same drugs that white kids get slapped on the wrist for using. (which is why I consider the call for more "background checks" incredibly racist) This has also lead to a situation where these communities have well higher than makes any kind of sense rates of felony and minor crime backgrounds, helping to shut the members of their community out from better jobs (and often education)....just adding to the financial woe and human misery.

      Its funny, when I call for the drug war to end in reparations, I am sometimes told "you are not getting any money for smoking pot", as if I think its my white middle class pot smoking ass that has suffered, not even close. I thank my lucky stars for my situation, and it makes me mad that others suffer for their persuit of happiness.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    2. Re:Florida resident here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gotta protect that tribal monopoly!

    3. Re:Florida resident here by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...the hammer came down to make a point that the legislature can still get things done.

      Of course. The trivial shit is easy. What are they doing to help the victims of foreclosure fraud?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:Florida resident here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are they doing to help the victims of foreclosure fraud?

      Telling the banks, shame, shame, don't do it again, here's a billion dollar check.

    5. Re:Florida resident here by rs1n · · Score: 1

      > Maybe if we can do something about the "WE BUY GOLD" and check cashing places > we can start to clean up these communities.

      Right and maybe if we can get fever under control, we can stop malaria.

      We all know, afterall, the primary reason they are poor is that they are out there selling their gold and other hard assetts rather than hording them.

      The "Check cashers" are pretty eggerious poverty profiteers, and I know people who have ended up fucked by those deals.

      It's not the poor that the parent was necessarily referring to. These places often take in stolen goods, and rip off legitimate customers. Granted, a quick Google search would enable the customer to make a sound decision on whether to sell to such places, it does not change the fact that these places rip off customers. Here's a good read:

      http://www.businessinsider.com/former-employee-reveals-the-seedy-world-of-we-buy-gold-businesses-2012-8

    6. Re:Florida resident here by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      In order for people to be disabled according to Social Security they must be disabled from all work whether the work is available or not. In other words if you went from a $150K position to a situation where you simply sat in a chair in a closed warehouse for minimum wage you would be disqualified for disability even if no such watchman posts existed in the community.
                                            One older man that I knew broke his neck and was wearing the crown of thorns device to keep his head in place and was denied disability when the referee asked if he could make change. The notion that he was older, not accustomed to work that involved being presentable, and that no employer was likely to touch a person in that medical condition did not matter one bit. The neck did heal eventually.

    7. Re:Florida resident here by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      When was this? Recently? He may not have been in the right position. Apparently there are companies now that are paid by states to find people on welfare who can be moved to disability. It essentially gets them an advocate who helps them through the process.

      http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

      That is one of the NPR stories (which they caught some flak for). I thought the comments of the doctor that they talked to were quite insightful. As sad and bad as I think it is, I actually find myself agreeing with his assessment.....its not the right solution, but the right solution isn't coming, so its probably the best option a lot of people have, and the alternative is even worst.

      However, the numbers are absolutely staggering.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    8. Re:Florida resident here by Vreejack · · Score: 1

      In the late 90's "Internet cafes" were actually a means to make high interest payday loans. You would buy a membership at the cafe on credit and they would offer to front you a whole lot of money. There was one outside the naval air station at Mayport, near the strip club. I didn't know what it was until they started closing them down.

      --
      "Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" -- Ivanhoe
    9. Re:Florida resident here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...the hammer came down to make a point that the legislature can still get things done.

      No, the hammer came down on "internet cafes" to divert the public's attention that the state's Lt governor was involved. Notice how no one is asking just how much she was as any investigation was dropped the moment she resigned.

  6. Actual Bill Text by dwhitaker · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is the actual bill as signed as a PDF: http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2013/0155/BillText/er/PDF Florida (and governing bodies in general) can easily pass bills with unintended consequences as pointed about by others' comments, so read the bill yourself to see what actually took place. The actual bill is called "CS/HB 155: Prohibition of Electronic Gambling Devices".

    --
    Douglas Whitaker
    1. Re:Actual Bill Text by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      Good link. Most news reports have simply used "Internet cafes" as shorthand, and I was worried that the bill really was drafted widely enough to cover ordinary Internet cafes (Starbucks with terminals) type businesses. It does appear, however, that the law is focused on gambling, and a genuine Internet cafe - one where you buy time, and only time, to use a computer to connect to the net - will not be impacted by this law.

      I don't think there are that many actual Internet Cafes (as opposed to "Internet Cafes") left, but this doesn't look like it's going to outlaw them.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  7. Pain clinics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The pain clinics are still open for business though. Good to now they have the right priorities. Maybe some of those have wifi.

  8. Re:Florida resident here: (re: veterans) by CrowdedBrainzzzsand9 · · Score: 1

    Yes. And one of the largest targeted group of cafes purported to raise funds in the cafes for veterans, but allegedly, little of it made it to vererans' organizations.

  9. internet café in u.s.a.? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    never knew united states of America has internet café. seen them in France, Germany, Italy and Hungary. thought every body in u.s.a. use their mobile phones to surf the internet while on holiday. learned something new today. didn't know gamaling was illegal in the states of Florida. guess it is legal in Nevada and Atlantic city, new jersey and on cruise ships. oh yea, remember that fbi or dept of justice closed some online gaming sites like a year ago.

    1. Re:internet café in u.s.a.? by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Internet cafes never quite took off the same way in the US, since Internet and computer access is readily available for free at most libraries and schools. Instead, offering Internet access became a benefit for restaurants and coffee shops (to the point where some Starbucks got fed up with people parking there all day long and removed their plugs to discourage moochers from staying there 8 hours with a laptop and using them as an office.)

      As for gambling, the US government leaves that to states to decide. My state, Georgia, has a state funded lottery. Profits go toward K-12 and college educational programs. South Carolina did video poker instead of a lottery (didn't work nearly as well as the state lotto did in Georgia.) Some states don't want anything at all. Others allow free for all gambling in certain locations.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    2. Re:internet café in u.s.a.? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      never knew united states of America has internet café. seen them in France, Germany, Italy and Hungary. thought every body in u.s.a. use their mobile phones to surf the internet while on holiday. learned something new today. didn't know gamaling was illegal in the states of Florida. guess it is legal in Nevada and Atlantic city, new jersey and on cruise ships. oh yea, remember that fbi or dept of justice closed some online gaming sites like a year ago.

      There is a problem in terminology here. The State of Florida has been using the term "Internet Café" in a way that implies that any establishment offering internet services is also a (unlicensed) gambling establishment. I haven't read the law itself, so it may be that the law knows better and it's just sloppy reporting, but there is definitely a difference.

      The US started out with Internet Cafés similar to what you are describing, but as home Internet service became more and more common and WiFi eliminated the need for a clumsy cable kit, the actual "café" part often moved into literal cafés, such as Starbucks and McDonalds. And into public places such as libraries. The older-style establishment became more known for "LAN Party" style gaming. The last time I was in an Internet café, it was across the street from a major university, its patrons were mostly students, and if there was any gambling, I didn't know about it.

      The first I heard of widespread commercial unlicensed gambling was things like the "video poker" machines in bars. The idea of having a networked operation is something I only heard about when the lid blew off and the dishonesty of the "veterans benefit" organization that only minimally benefited veterans and the collusion of the Lieutenant Governor.

      Incidentally, Florida pretty well divides at the Interstate 4 corridor. North of it is conservative Bible-belt types who have been fighting a slow losing battle against any sort of gambling for decades. South of it is where you'll find the commercial gambling establishments and people who support them.

      You can have your own opinions about gambling. Some people claimed that they went there for the social atmosphere. At least one Veterans service organization did get enough money out of the scam that they're really hurting now. My own greatest hope is that the actual law really does target the gambling and not take a wider indiscriminate chunk out of more legitimate endeavors. The Florida Legislature is currently packed with Republicans whose primary goal in life seems to be to micro-manage everyone else's lives and has been for quite a few years now. Also, unless I missed something, they're not on the list of people who have to be tested for drugs before they can receive state money. Not that legislators would ever do drugs...

    3. Re:internet café in u.s.a.? by jittles · · Score: 1

      The law does not forbid offering internet service, even at a cost. The law forbids operating internet based gambling for a price. Basically these places were literally giant casinos that labeled themselves as internet cafes. The law specifically forbids the types of games that were being played at these facilities, and does not, in any way, affect internet access for anyone.

    4. Re:internet café in u.s.a.? by jittles · · Score: 1

      I shouldn't say giant casinos, more like mini casinos. But since there really aren't but a handful of Indian casinos in Florida, it is as close as you get.

    5. Re:internet café in u.s.a.? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      I shouldn't say giant casinos, more like mini casinos. But since there really aren't but a handful of Indian casinos in Florida, it is as close as you get.

      Actually, greyhound racing is probably a lot bigger, even in the North. Jai-alai was supposed to be a betting sport, but I don't know if it still is. Never saw it north of Daytona.

      In fact, I would not be surprised to find smudgy fingerprints from the racetracks all over the design of this and similar bills.

    6. Re:internet café in u.s.a.? by jittles · · Score: 1

      I shouldn't say giant casinos, more like mini casinos. But since there really aren't but a handful of Indian casinos in Florida, it is as close as you get.

      Actually, greyhound racing is probably a lot bigger, even in the North. Jai-alai was supposed to be a betting sport, but I don't know if it still is. Never saw it north of Daytona.

      In fact, I would not be surprised to find smudgy fingerprints from the racetracks all over the design of this and similar bills.

      My understanding is that this all exploded over the Veterans "charity" scandal in Jacksonville. Either way, race tracks and poker rooms are already legalized in the state of FL, and have been since the 1920's. They're supposedly highly regulated and taxed industries but I don't know.

  10. Does that mean by MSBob · · Score: 1

    My brokerage account will be blocked too?

    --
    Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
    1. Re:Does that mean by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      Only if your broker serves coffee at the same time.

  11. Oh? These? by Rie+Beam · · Score: 1

    We have this all around the coast here in South Carolina -- they even advertise on billboards. SC banned private gambling operations (such as poker machines) in 2000 while simultaneously starting the "South Carolina Education Lottery" to fill the void; many businesses went kapoot then, but recently this private surge of Internet Cafe gambling has come out, as technically gambling from a server located in another state is still a grey area. Charleston hasn't really done anything to impede the progress of places like this, but Myrtle Beach has actually had raids on these locations and arrested people for illegally gambling. As it stands, I am five miles from seven different "Internet Sweepstake" cafes.

    1. Re:Oh? These? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm one of the 14,000 that lost their job yesterday by the stroke of Rick Scott's pen. Interestingly enough the software we used and all of our tech support were in South Carolina.

  12. cherry masters where / still in bars and in WI the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    cherry masters where / still in bars and in WI they are some what legal / not legal. They also have coin pushers that pay out coins as well.

  13. Mostly a scam... by Jager+Dave · · Score: 1

    One of the companies, in Florida anyway, that runs a chain of these (Gambling) Internet Cafes, was doing so supposedly to support American veterans. After a thorough audit of their business (which is partly responsible for this bill being drafted in the first place), it was found that out of the (10's of millions of) money the "organization" made that year, only 2% went to their charity, and a larger percentage going to political donations (which, apparently didn't help them much in the long run :> ).

  14. "other things it might lead to?" by retchdog · · Score: 1

    What other things would it lead to? FL, like every other state excepting NV, asserts a government monopoly on gambling. (some states license out that monopoly geographically or otherwise, but that's not the same as being permissive.)

    How is it at all surprising that they are cracking down on a scheme to circumvent this monopoly, and what will it ``lead to"?

    --
    "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
  15. Money, money, money.... by TimO_Florida · · Score: 1

    These 'cafes' are really only there for one reason: to separate your retired grandparents or parents from their retirement checks. You can get free wifi in pretty much any restaurant and free internet computers in any library; there's just no reason for internet cafes down here in Florida. That said, I'm sure the full casinos pushed through the bill.

  16. cat food, cat food, SKULL, awwww mannnnn.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no mod points, so instead of the +1 funny, +1 insightful, -1 sick,sad,world, I will award you with a BAZINGA! </blink>

  17. Massage Parlor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A "massage parlor" could be a massage parlor, or a sex emporium. Vice industries co-opt legit descriptions in an attempt to soften their image. "Exotic dancing" instead of "erotic gyrating". "Gaming" instead of "gambling". "Alternative medicine" instead of "unproven medicine". "Internet cafe" instead of "networked gambling hall".

  18. Internet Cafe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of you don't know what your are talking about. Our law makers are looking after their cronies, the poker rooms and the Indian tribes. This has nothing to do with
    with ethics or decency, it is law makers choosing winners and losers. It is about the law makers pockets and self interest. If you have principles you will be against all kind of gambling and not selective.

  19. Re: internet cafes by olhobbler · · Score: 1

    That herald article was interesting, providing liquor, food, beer, whatever it takes to keep 'em sitting down in that chair. I was amazed how brazen they became, they were in almost every broken down strip mall, everywhere. Good riddance.

  20. Re:Florida resident here: (re: veterans) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretty sure that was the "veterans benefit organization" he was referring to.

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