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Utility Box Exposed As Spy Cabinet In the Netherlands

First time accepted submitter thejezus writes "A spy cabinet has been exposed on a public road in The Hague, the Netherlands (Google translate here). The cabinet was disguised as telecom-cabinet and was detected by the maintenance crew of Ziggo (a triple-play provider) because it was not listed as a property of the company. Upon opening, it was revealed the cabinet contained a camera and UMTS equipment. Later that day, the cabinet disappeared. 1984 much?"

24 of 179 comments (clear)

  1. I could be wrong but.... by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative

    Does a spy camera on the side of the road really justify comparisons to 1984? Are we really anywhere close to the type of life portrayed in 1984?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:I could be wrong but.... by guttentag · · Score: 4, Funny

      Does a spy camera on the side of the road really justify comparisons to 1984??

      Novel
      No, it would have to be in your living room. 1984-esque technology in a public place would consist of a video screen at which you hurl things and scream.

      Year
      Even in 1985, Dr. Emmett Brown, who was sufficiently advanced to build a time machine out of a DeLorean, had to hire some slacker kid to shoulder his ginormous video camera. If he didn't have the technology to build a self-supporting camera in 1985, it certainly wouldn't have been available in 1984.

      So no on both counts.

    2. Re:I could be wrong but.... by rudy_wayne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn't justify comparison with 1984, but it and its ilk do get us closer to it. A step on the way.

      The comparison to 1984 seems a bit over the top, but, some people would argue that you don't get an Orwellian society suddenly, over night, but one small step at a time, and it happens so slowly that you don't notice it until its too late.

    3. Re:I could be wrong but.... by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Does a spy camera on the side of the road really justify comparisons to 1984? Are we really anywhere close to the type of life portrayed in 1984?

      What is the minimum criteria for comparing society to a literary work -- Is there some percentage of the work that have to similar to justify the comparison?

      I can certainly see how hidden government surveillance cabinets (if there's one, there's likely to be more than one, and who knows how many - maybe they are on every street corner?) could be compared to the ubiquitous surveillance decribed in 1984. We may be a long way from government surveillance in our homes, when we can't walk to the corner store without the government knowing about it, it seems that we're a lot closer than we used to. And now we don't even need a trusted Party official to keep track of us - thanks to facial recognition, the government can record and indefinitely store all of our public movements for later data mining.

    4. Re:I could be wrong but.... by iggymanz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you think "1984" was to be interpreted literally? We have instead government tapping all internet and phone systems, data mining social media, warring against people who never attacked us in the name of "peace", able to legally "disappear" people who are considered threats without warrant nor oversight, a privileged powerful and wealthy few with government in their pockets engineering the media, social and economic systems for their benefit......we're there

    5. Re:I could be wrong but.... by icebraining · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, there must be some similitude to justify the comparison, obviously.

      In 1984 the surveillance wasn't hidden, it was overt. And this is actually important, because the main concept in the novel wasn't the surveillance, but the state of mind of the Party members*, which both enabled and was enabled by the conscience of full and complete surveillance, among other things.

      People who compare this to Orwell's work either didn't read it or completely missed the point.

      * The society in 1984 didn't actually have full surveillance; in fact, only 15% of society were spied on. Winston is just part of those 15%.

    6. Re:I could be wrong but.... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      I can see a cell tower. I'm pretty sure that . *(U()*U$Ejhhjjhkljhsdf ws is monito89984ryu5 but I'm not worr*()*43jknlkjdbzzzt.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:I could be wrong but.... by Doctor+Device · · Score: 4, Insightful
      as the old saying goes...

      Airstrip One wasn't built in a day.

      --
      -It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
    8. Re:I could be wrong but.... by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obama received the Nobel peace price while expanding military operations in Afghanistan and ordering extrajudicial murders of American citizens abroad.

      War is peace, right?

      Nope, he received the prize before any of that stuff happened. In fact he received it barely before anything happened that'd in any way justify the prize going to Obama.

      The prize committee's thinking seems to be more a case of giving the award in recognition that Obama at the time hadn't made things worse and didn't seem to be hearing Jesus in his head telling him to go bomb people. In practice, a jar of mustard would have been in with a chance if it were replacing Bush.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    9. Re:I could be wrong but.... by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Informative

      no, we did not have populace on "internet" in 1980s, nor did we have automated systems for listening to all comm for key words. we did not have a "forever war" in place.

    10. Re:I could be wrong but.... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you think "1984" was to be interpreted literally? We have instead government tapping all internet and phone systems, data mining social media, warring against people who never attacked us in the name of "peace", able to legally "disappear" people who are considered threats without warrant nor oversight, a privileged powerful and wealthy few with government in their pockets engineering the media, social and economic systems for their benefit......we're there

      Did you even read Nineteen Eighty-Four? Quick quiz: what was the spying technique that turned in most people in the book? Tapping of phones? Surveillance by Telescreen? Nope, it was good old low-tech "squealing by somebody you trust".

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    11. Re:I could be wrong but.... by WGFCrafty · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, but those mini spy cams were not directed at the population, they were used against the evil of then, the bad Russkies. Plus, our politicians had to play nice to keep reminding us that we're the good guys. We don't do oppressive things like keeping tabs on every person, hiring snitches from the population to spy on the people in their apartment block, shooting randomly at suspects because they "look funny" or make people disappear in some remote concentration camps without trial (or a kangaroo court trial at best).

      Martin Luther King Jr.? Watergate? McCarthy?

      There was plenty of domestic intelligence often aimed wildly at whoever was in the way.

      Hell, J. Robert Oppenheimer was outed and accused, you are glossing over many disgusting ordeals.Many prominent people were entangled in webs of ridicule and half truths. Stopping the reds would be achieved no matter the cost. Human experimentation without informed consent on children and prisoners - black syphilis patients not told about penicillin. "Down-winders" exposed to fallout from MANY tests. Bacteria spread over town to watch epidemic infection profiles. People dosed with LSD without their knowledge.

      Stop acting like human right violations only occurred elsewhere or to others people. The United States is guilty of many questionable and downright illegal things.

  2. Re:Weird by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Who would be spying on the Netherlands? Someone after the secret to wooden shoes, perhaps?

    This "Schilderswijk" where the cabinet was discovered is a notorious low-income suburb. It's more likely to be native intelligence spying on locals in fear of extremists.

  3. pictures of inside by xatr0z · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:pictures of inside by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      NOW I'm convinced it was a government job!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Quis Custodiot Ipsos Custodes by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of the most important tasks when discovering an electronic intruder or monitor is to trace if they try to clean up and remove their tracks. This is as true for electronic "spy boxes" as it is for unauthorized network taps, rootkitted servers, and hacked websites. It's too bad the discoverers didn't have the resources to set up a webcam to monitor the spy box, itself, to get data on the vehicle or faces of those removing the spy box.

  5. Re:Lazy Intelligence? by guttentag · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Hague is the seat of the Dutch intelligence services...

    More importantly, The Hague is the location of the International Court of Justice, the judicial arm of the United Nations, as well as a number of other international courts. Definitely a city of international importance.

  6. Re:Weird by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Funny

    This "Schilderswijk" where the cabinet was discovered is a notorious low-income suburb.

    It's settled, then. Someone pinched the stuff and sold it to make a bit of money on the side. Has the spy agency tried scouring the local pawn shops?

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  7. Re:My question is... by marcovje · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A square. Dutch editions of the news speculate that it was there to monitor the coming and goings of militants. Might be related to recruiting of Jihadists for Syria too, at least that has been a big news item in these parts recently.

  8. police observation, not espionage by sciencewatcher · · Score: 4, Informative

    This looks much more like a police operation. A couple of years ago a small nondescript trailer was parked in Amsterdam to observe a meeting between two criminals. One of those started a shooting spree and the police officers inside the trailer were lucky not to be hit. They couldn't get out of the trailer from the inside quick enough to chase them. There probably is a notorious criminal living within sight there. The Ziggo employees were irresponsible in publicizing this. Ziggo is a cable company.

    1. Re:police observation, not espionage by chihowa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Shootings here in the US aren't exactly a regular part of our lives. Neither I, nor anyone I know, has ever even heard a gunshot (outside of a shooting range) in my entire life. They may not be as rare as they are in Europe, but they are still exceedingly rare here, too. Besides the recent school shootings, the vast majority of shootings happen by (and to) the criminal element in the terribly seedy parts of town. Our crime here seems to be more of a social problem (wealth inequality and drug laws) and less of a technical problem (access to guns). Ordinary citizens rarely, if ever, see gun crime.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  9. Re:Lazy Intelligence? by fondacio · · Score: 4, Informative

    But pretty much irrelevant to this story. The neighbourhood in which they found the cabinet is far removed from where the international institutions are and from where the internationals live. As mentioned by previous posts, the Schilderswijk is a low income area with a large immigrant population. The purpose of the cabinet is most likely to help a police investigation into anything between organised crime or jihad recruitment, and on Dutch websites some have already pointed out that exposing this method effectively renders it useless in the future, but police have been doing it for at least ten years. This kind of surveillance was most likely done with the permission of a public prosecutor, unless it was the intelligence services in which case another law applies.

  10. Re:You mean... by Kaenneth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    His usage was perfectly cromulent.

  11. Mystery solved by Captain_Chaos · · Score: 4, Informative

    The box was placed by the police department. See this follow up article (Google Translate), in which the police department (it doesn't specify which one, but probably that of The Hague) states that the box is theirs and it was being used in a large financial crime investigation. Nothing to do with investigating the recruitment of youths to come fight in Syria, as had been speculated. They say they had permission from the public prosecutor to use it.